Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[thecatinthehat]

No. It's not that Sonic get's more distance. Sonic has a variety of recovery options. He can (and probably will) recover in any situation. You will rarely ever see a Sonic get spiked or gimped.

He can recover low, high, middle, 3D, anywhere.

 

[Greenstreet]

my goodness...i said move on....

 

[Jim Morrison]

Recoveries: done.

How about ground game?

BTW, I'd like to add GaW has a worse shield than Sonic

 

[A2ZOMG]

He can recover low, high, middle, 3D, anywhere.

That is pretty much the case for G&W, except you can't hit him out of his recovery as easily even if you end up in the place where he wants to recover from.

Ground game, well, G&W has D-tilt and F-smash. Sonic has Dash attack and Dash grab and Spindash, but those are risky to use against D-tilt and F-smash.

 

[Chis]

Oh do shut up.

Sonic > G&W recovery wise. Don't waste time and move on.

 

[thecatinthehat]

That is pretty much the case for G&W, except you can't hit him out of his recovery as easily even if you end up in the place where he wants to recover from.

Ground game, well, G&W has D-tilt and F-smash. Sonic has Dash attack and Dash grab and Spindash, but those are really risky to use against D-tilt and F-smash.

Most good Sonics dont dash grab. Shield grabbing is where it's at.
Ground Game? Sonic has a superb tech chase game. D-throw is the main tool to start tech chases. F-tilt is also good to set up tech chases.
d-tilt has IASA frames.
f-tilt shield pokes.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sonic's approaches:

Run trough and pivot
Shield Cancel
Hyphen Smash (good to get dodge d-tilt)
Spin dash shield cancel
SH aerial
Dash Attack
Walking F-tilt

Add more if you know some

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W has a better techchase game than Sonic...But he doesn't even need it since he has even BETTER juggling. If he gets a grab, he will more likely U-throw, but he is able to regrab from his D-throw if he reads right IIRC, and if you don't tech, he can also Jab or D-tilt or techchase U-smash.

Also, I think you can DI Sonic's D-throw Upwards, and you won't hit the ground especially at higher percents. G&W is superlightweight, so he will probably escape even earlier than most characters.

G&W's Dash attack either clanks or outprioritizes almost all of Sonic's attacks if used with good reading.

Also, Sonic's tilts fail against the B-air, meaning you shouldn't usually approach him with tilts.

If G&W chooses to shieldcamp, you can only hope for a grab, and that will likely miss before he Up-Bs away. IMO, this is the topic you should be focusing on, since G&W shieldcamping is arguably Sonic's biggest problem to deal with.

 

[Kinzer]

Erm...where do I start...so many people have made so many points already, and so many people are wrong in so many places, and I have so much to share...Let's start with quoting A2.

Alright dude I've had about enough of this, whenever you go to another board for whatever reason, you either make things look too good or worse than they really are. I can recall reading posts coming from you and you made Ike look so suckish when he really wasn't! Granted Ike doesn't have too many advantages, but he's not at a complete loss with his disadvantages either, and now you're here making G&W's recovery look like it's even more godly than MK's.

Again, I'm going to say that it really is a good move. It can be used very fast, has a great hitbox, invunerability frames, wind/vacuum effects, and allows him to do anything outside of it, but it's still possible to hit him out of it sometimes. I've done things like Dair and all that junk that send him back offstage.

Somebody else had already told you that Sonic's recovery isn't exactly punishable either, and not only that but we have more things to work with.

 

[Jim Morrison]

GaW's Dash Attack is easy to block. Sonic has many many more approaches than GaW. We already have 3 grab approaches, SDSC grab, pivot and running grab.

 

[ROOOOY!]

How is G&W going to juggle Sonic?

 

[thecatinthehat]

1) G&W has a better techchase game than Sonic...But he doesn't even need it since he has even BETTER juggling. If he gets a grab, he will more likely U-throw, but he is able to regrab from his D-throw if he reads right IIRC, and if you don't tech, he can also Jab or D-tilt or techchase U-smash.

2)Also, I think you can DI Sonic's D-throw Upwards, and you won't hit the ground especially at higher percents. G&W is superlightweight, so he will probably escape even earlier than most characters.

G&W's Dash attack either clanks or outprioritizes almost all of Sonic's attacks if used with good reading.

Also, Sonic's tilts fail against the B-air, meaning you shouldn't usually approach him with tilts.

3) If G&W chooses to shieldcamp, you can only hope for a grab, and that will likely miss before he Up-Bs away.

1) you failed to say how G&W has a better tech chase game.

2) Show's how much you know. You can't DI out of d-throw.

3)like I said, any good SOnic wont go for the dash grab. We shield grab.

 

[Jim Morrison]

How is G&W going to juggle Sonic?

He will U-air you and keep you in, but basicly D-air is gonna cut right trough when he's on the ground for a sec.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How is G&W going to juggle Sonic?

The same way he is able to juggle everyone else.

U-air stall is plain broken. You can't punish it, it unstales his other moves, and opens you up to be punished. His Up-B outprioritizes everything you do, especially on the invul frames. His N-air has a HUGE hitbox that is very hard to air dodge and does a lot of damage when all hits connect.

Lastly, instant charge release on U-smash.

 

[thecatinthehat]

1) you failed to say how G&W has a better tech chase game.

2) Show's how much you know. You can't DI out of d-throw.

3)like I said, any good SOnic wont go for the dash grab. We shield grab.

 

[Kinzer]

Cat, you know that link is broken, right?

 

[thecatinthehat]

yeah. it's my way of getting around the 10 character limit.
Helps you censor dodge too.

 

[Greenstreet]

@ cat: Nooooo...not in meh threadz...

 

[Chis]

Needs less bias G&W mainers.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm going to come up with something...what sucks is that I had it all WRITTEN UP, but then I accidentally hit my damned back button on my mouse, I lost it all, and now I have to do it all over AGAIN!

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Oh god why does it have to be this fing swpan of hell? I like G&W, but when it comes to fighting him it like a ond sided fight WTf. Well, at least I got kirby in my back pocket to counter any stupid matches sonic has.

 

[cutter]

G&W is annoying though. He will kill Sonic early if he lands a shot.
Worst power:weight ratio ever. >_>

G&W reminds me so much of Alakazam when I played Pokemon as a kid. Both are glass cannons; their damage output is ludicrous, but both can't take much punishment at all. Both of them are also predictable since you know what they're going to be using (ie for G&W it's Bair/smashes/Up B and for Zam it's Psychic/elemental punches), but you're still going to be in a world of hurt.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

G&W reminds me so much of Alakazam when I played Pokemon as a kid. Both are glass cannons; their damage output is ludicrous, but both can't take much punishment at all. Both of them are also predictable since you know what they're going to be using (ie for G&W it's Bair/smashes/Up B and for Zam it's Psychic/elemental punches), but you're still going to be in a world of hurt.

Hell, I like to play G&W sometime at friendlies in chicago. But when you fight him it like playing one of the top 3rd strike player as ken, yun, or chun. And you know you'll be in for a fight playing a low tier agsint a Top tier. G&W air game is too godly.

 

[SonicX580]

Instead of debating how about a brawl to see how Sonic matches up with G&W anyone agree?

 

[Dark Sonic]

U-air stall is plain broken.

No it isn't.

You can't punish it, it unstales his other moves

This is true

and opens you up to be punished.

This is not. Sonic can easily get out of uair stalls with his up B->dair->airdodge (the uair launches him pretty high when used with Sonic's up B). The momentum of the dair carries into his airdodge and makes him invincible for quite a distance.

The one problem is that if your predictable with this you are asking for an upsmash at the end of it (hard to time, but not impossible).

But no, uair stalling is not completely unstoppable or even that effective. And heck, the uair "puff" gives Sonic his B moves back after an up B anyway.

His Up-B outprioritizes everything you do, especially on the invul frames.

But then you're not juggling me. And I get away after getting hit by...your up B, which is pretty weak.

His N-air has a HUGE hitbox that is very hard to air dodge and does a lot of damage when all hits connect.

It's actually not that hard to airdodge (unless you're about to hit the ground or something) And if it comes to it Sonic can just side B to go through it or up B to get away.

Lastly, instant charge release on U-smash.

That's more of a tech chase thing, not really juggling.

Anyway, G&W does have quite a few things on Sonic, but Juggling isn't that bad for Sonic. What makes G&W hard to fight is that he has little lag and large hitboxes (sound familiar?). He's got enough lag to get grabs and tilts, but you're really not landing kill moves unless you just plain mindgame him (or outspace him on one of his less disjointed moves), and edgeguarding him is a pain in the *** (So's edgeguarding Sonic, but G&W doesn't rely on edgeguarding as much for kills anyway).

edit:I'll write more later, but if anyone wants to play on Wi-fi I'm up for it (well, not now, but I'll be free at about 9:30

 

[Kinzer]

Oh yeah that reminds me, I'll be up for Wi-Fi challenges as well, and Dark Sonic pretty much proved some false points made by A2... I still need to write up that stupid guide, but losing it all destroyed my morale pretty bad...

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Instead of debating how about a brawl to see how Sonic matches up with G&W anyone agree?

I agree, but are you crazy?

 

[Tenki]

No, G&W definitely has better recovery than Sonic.

You can't hit him out of his Up-B 99.9% of the time, and it sweetspots the edge. He has better aerial DI, safer aerial attacks, and he has much better edgecamping.

G&W in no way has a better recovery than Sonic.

@Sonics:
By better recovery, he's not talking about distance or even options. Safetywise, GAW's recovery is amazing. Spring won't gimp it, good luck trying to hit it from the side, it sweetspots ledges and he can attack (specials too!) and airdodge out of it.

Also, I think you can DI Sonic's D-throw Upwards, and you won't hit the ground especially at higher percents. G&W is superlightweight, so he will probably escape even earlier than most characters.

2) Show's how much you know. You can't DI out of d-throw.

Yes you can. I even made a thread about the DI and opponent options from D-throw

You can DI the d-throw so that you can airdodge or even just plain regain 'idle fall' state before landing.

 

[thecatinthehat]

@Sonics:
Yes you can. I even made a thread about the DI and opponent options from D-throw

You can DI the d-throw so that you can airdodge or even just plain regain 'idle fall' state before landing.

Waaatttt?

I have never seen this done. Like.....ever.

 

[aeghrur]

Waaatttt?

I have never seen this done. Like.....ever.

It's in his pop quiz thread about d-throw options at 25-40% if the opponent DIs up I believe... lol...

 

[Tenki]

I DI out of Sonic D-throws alot :l

 

[Kinzer]

I've never seen it done to me either, but if Tenki says it's possible, can you argue with him? :/

Anyway I'm going to go back and add a little bit more...

 

[aeghrur]

I hate G&W D-throw->D-smash... sometimes, I miss the tech and it... simply hurts. T_T
I hate the turtle... shield eating *******
I like the chef though, easyish to punish. :D
I hate the safeness of his up-B...
I hate his F-smash
I hate his long *** hit boxes.
I hate his level 9 judgement thingymabob.
I hate his U-air... but I like super springing from it, so fun, lol.

I hate G&W in general, and I agree with the 70-30 match up. =/

 

[Kinzer]

You should also know that some of his attacks tend to stick out as well...Bair (duh), Fair, Fsmash, Nair, Keyblade, etc.

Edit: D'oh forget it, I'm way too demoralized after wasting a lot of my time, being constantly interrupted by my Step-father and shit, only to have all the data lost and irretrievable.

 

[da K.I.D.]

careful sonics, your fanboyishness is showing...

the last page and a half is why tenki is in my sig, he holds it down while i am away

 

[Kinzer]

Eh what fanboyishness? I know all too well that if I don't play a patient/punishing/reactive/defensive game I out as well just be fighting MK. We already have a disadvantage, I want to make this fight actually winnable.

Sonic can't afford to get aggressive other than when opportunity shines.

 

[Tenki]

Like when A2 brought up GAW's recovery being better (safety of it), everyone was like "0mg but s0inc canz flyy

and also side-B!11"

GAW's recovery doesn't just go around edgeguarders, nor does it only sweetspot the ledge.

It interrupts edgeguarders.

 

[Kinzer]

:/

But A2 ALWAYS makes things seem better than what they really are...unless he's trying to make things look worse... but nevertheless, it's still good, can't argue with that.

Also Sonic can fly if Mr.G&W gives him a boost.

 

[da K.I.D.]

btw, back air is not a problem for me, theres too many options.
a few months ago a sonic main whose name i forgot posted a 2 second youtube vid of him blocking gaws back air and spot dodging the last landing hit. and counterign with a jab combo.
you can also SDI it up if you get caught in it, and if you are good, (im still working on doing this consistently) you should be able to down air counterattack him

 

[Chis]

Meh, the word fan boy is thrown around so much that it's meaning now is more disjointed then Game and Watches hit boxes.