WedginatorX
Smash Champion
I still think sonic beats dk.
-
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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread
- Thread starter Chis
- Start date
Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
Soooooo no character discussion for almost a week.
Request to go over Marth next? Some of the Sonics are saying it's an even MU, and I'm curious why, because that would make Sonic one of the four MUs Marth has with characters below him on the current tier list that's considered even.
Request to go over Marth next? Some of the Sonics are saying it's an even MU, and I'm curious why, because that would make Sonic one of the four MUs Marth has with characters below him on the current tier list that's considered even.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Sonic kinda molests Marth offstage, which at the same time avoiding getting the same treatment in return.
rising fair on shield is easily punishable, with a number of options.
sonic is very good at baiting things, and baiting marth successfully means a whiffed dolphin slash, which is amazing.
sonic also destroys spacing for most characters, so unless dude is super lucky or you are being unsafe, you arent going to randomly die at 70 to a tipper f smash.
side b does eat us up tho. and marth is just as good at juggling as us. if not better. he can **** airdodges, can hit thru spring and is fast enough to catch us even if we spring dair away from him.
also, marth CAN NOT ledge stall against us for anything. all that ledgedrop fair thru the stage bs that he likes to do gets CRUSHED by us. sonic is so fast he can steal the ledge in an instant.
EVERYONE
ALERT
IF YOU GRAB THE LEDGE BEFORE MARTH, STAY THERE. DO NOT LEAVE THE LEDGE, HIS SIDE B WILL NOT STALL OUT YOUR INVINCIBILITY. AND DONT GET OFF THE LEDGE UNTIL YOU ARE 100% SURE THAT HES DEAD.
seriously, ive seen FAR too many people have a guaranteed ledgehog death on marth but then they get off the ledge even tho marths up b lets him float in the same place for like half a second so he can grab the ledge. and if the up b hits you off the ledge, just spring.
rising fair on shield is easily punishable, with a number of options.
sonic is very good at baiting things, and baiting marth successfully means a whiffed dolphin slash, which is amazing.
sonic also destroys spacing for most characters, so unless dude is super lucky or you are being unsafe, you arent going to randomly die at 70 to a tipper f smash.
side b does eat us up tho. and marth is just as good at juggling as us. if not better. he can **** airdodges, can hit thru spring and is fast enough to catch us even if we spring dair away from him.
also, marth CAN NOT ledge stall against us for anything. all that ledgedrop fair thru the stage bs that he likes to do gets CRUSHED by us. sonic is so fast he can steal the ledge in an instant.
EVERYONE
ALERT
IF YOU GRAB THE LEDGE BEFORE MARTH, STAY THERE. DO NOT LEAVE THE LEDGE, HIS SIDE B WILL NOT STALL OUT YOUR INVINCIBILITY. AND DONT GET OFF THE LEDGE UNTIL YOU ARE 100% SURE THAT HES DEAD.
seriously, ive seen FAR too many people have a guaranteed ledgehog death on marth but then they get off the ledge even tho marths up b lets him float in the same place for like half a second so he can grab the ledge. and if the up b hits you off the ledge, just spring.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Funfact: You can sdi marth's side b into fair or if you have gdlk enough sdi, uair.
MJG
Smash Hero
Hello Sonic mains
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297333
The TL boards are currently discussing sonic. Please give us your input.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297333
The TL boards are currently discussing sonic. Please give us your input.
Actually in theory that might be able to work on ZSS and Samus. They have stupidly designed grabboxes and enough lag that Sonic would recover before they do lol.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
...what does this mean?? LOL
Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
Sonic's fish-flop lag lasts longer than it takes Marth to do 2 grabs.
Yea thats exactly what happens to me when i do that to a marth. They just get me the 2nd time. Tbh it probably goes under alot of grabs, he falls pretty flat for a couple of frames there.
Basically for a few frames during fair's landing lag, Sonic looks like this:
He is vertically about as small as kirby crouching and alot of grabs and attacks will go right over him.
As Tenki said, we are gonna call it the "fast fall fish bait" or FFFB or Fx3B AT from now on?
Basically for a few frames during fair's landing lag, Sonic looks like this:
He is vertically about as small as kirby crouching and alot of grabs and attacks will go right over him.
As Tenki said, we are gonna call it the "fast fall fish bait" or FFFB or Fx3B AT from now on?
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
I have a replay of me vs BengalsRZ online. The connection a pretty damn good. I'm so happy that my new apartment's wifi isn't made of failure.
It's an entire set and Bengals is a pretty good Marth. Granted, who would want to watch my bumass Sonic fight Marth, when you can look at Espy vs Nike?
It's an entire set and Bengals is a pretty good Marth. Granted, who would want to watch my bumass Sonic fight Marth, when you can look at Espy vs Nike?
NH Cody
Smash Champion
kidding
because you will probably have some mixups that we've never seen before.
and personally, I use marth as a backup so watching BRZ would be fun for me.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
LMAO. YOU ARE MY SON.
Mad *****s trying to get at these high steaks fishing ATs.
Mad *****s trying to get at these high steaks fishing ATs.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I about to trounce bengalz at pound. bout to stomp that kid out...
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BPEYIJLV
...Tesh? I'll take you off ignore if you record these for me and stop tryin to troll *****s mad hard for no reason.
...Tesh? I'll take you off ignore if you record these for me and stop tryin to troll *****s mad hard for no reason.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
It's relevant to this discussion you troll...-_-;
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
fk tesh. what a flaming douchebag, I hope he gets hit by a truck.
Please people dont quote him when you talk to him. It just makes it so that I have to read his *********** anyway when I really dont want to.
cant he just main some other character or something, just so tired of him being here, not contributing anything.
Please people dont quote him when you talk to him. It just makes it so that I have to read his *********** anyway when I really dont want to.
cant he just main some other character or something, just so tired of him being here, not contributing anything.
Trillion
Smash Ace
I seriously LOL'd when I read the Fast Fall Fish Bait thing. That sounds so incredibly ********. I honestly have never heard of a more ridiculous sounding plan.
Lol, man I got this matchup like 70:30 guys. Tesh hard counters K.I.D. I'm not even trying and I still make him mad.
Little does K.I.D. know, this was my plan the entire time. I have crucial information that will turn any Sonic into a top level player capable of defeating Ally, M2K and all of Japan for THOUSANDS of dollars weekly. And without reading my posts, he will never learn the dark side of the steak. I must ask that none of you quote my posts in front of K.I.D., as he may learn the ancient arts of my people.
On topic though, what matchups should we be discussing next? I know Marth is on the table, but perhaps Mario or some other easy matchup could go up alongside it?
Kinzer
Mammy
Donkey Bong please. It'll be one I actually want to participate in and would be willing to argue.
Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
Marth, Diddy Kong, Olimar, Pikachu, Toon Link, Sheik, and Pit are probably the ones I'm most interested in MU synopsis.
Among those, Toon Link is at the top. I've steadily grown to fear the boomerang and Zair, but I dunno if I should.
I do fear that Nair and Bair though.
Among those, Toon Link is at the top. I've steadily grown to fear the boomerang and Zair, but I dunno if I should.
I do fear that Nair and Bair though.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
So are we going to discuss marf or not? Id love to go over more solid approaches for gimping the guy like ledgedrop invincible fair/nair.
Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
NH Cody
Smash Champion
lol Josh...
Toon Link is easy. pressure more.
Toon Link is easy. pressure more.
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
How do you pressure a small little guy who has amazing arial mobility, has 3 projectiles plus Zair and (probably?) kills easier than we do.
I'm curious.
I'm curious.
Toon Link does not kill easier than Sonic. Not in this matchup anyway. His best bet is upsmash, everything else won't kill Sonic til like 160 and he is light enough to die from upthrow, nair, uptilt, uair, bair, dair etc. by that time anyway.
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
Wait what, DAIR??
I wanna know in that time, how do we go about goin inside him lol.
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
Well that was what I was asking Quest about :X
NH Cody
Smash Champion
Okay
this is what you do:
1. run up to him really fast since you're the fastest hedgehog in the world!
2. attack
3. profit
;D
no seriously. Just run up, avoiding the projectiles and attack loll is it really that hard?
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
idk man u might as well say "dont get hit"
Kinzer
Mammy
Except in the grand scheme of things he's right.
The issue is how you approach.
If you charge in with a headfirst assault you'll only get chipped.
You have to slow down so you can see the first wall and react accordingly. If that means stop and go with a shield, so be it. If the approach was via spinshot, you should go over most everything that is not a boomerang angled to meet you airborne. Even still, I've had weird cases of clashing with the boomerang so if you got balls of steel and feel like attacking through the Boomerang and possibly go through to T.Link go for it, otherwise AD through the boomerang and make sure you don't get hit on the way in, or get hit from behind from the boomerang that will inevitably come back (Unless in this case the Boomerang gets a mind of its own and decides to go to Australia but that's just me being silly).
The second wall being one of T.Link's Melee attacks to push you out to get you back on the first wall.
Once you've gotten past that, it should be easier.
Sometimes yeah it might be better to get in quickly to keep the opponent guessing but more often than not that's only when the opponent is already conditioned.
The issue is how you approach.
If you charge in with a headfirst assault you'll only get chipped.
You have to slow down so you can see the first wall and react accordingly. If that means stop and go with a shield, so be it. If the approach was via spinshot, you should go over most everything that is not a boomerang angled to meet you airborne. Even still, I've had weird cases of clashing with the boomerang so if you got balls of steel and feel like attacking through the Boomerang and possibly go through to T.Link go for it, otherwise AD through the boomerang and make sure you don't get hit on the way in, or get hit from behind from the boomerang that will inevitably come back (Unless in this case the Boomerang gets a mind of its own and decides to go to Australia but that's just me being silly).
The second wall being one of T.Link's Melee attacks to push you out to get you back on the first wall.
Once you've gotten past that, it should be easier.
Sometimes yeah it might be better to get in quickly to keep the opponent guessing but more often than not that's only when the opponent is already conditioned.
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
It's just that it stopped working once they know I'm gonna either spinshot or SDJ over them to try get past their wall of annoyance and I end up eating a Nair. Dude's like a fly. Walking/Running > shielding against his stuff seems to only work so far for me.
But I'm just a wifi Sonic though.
Anyway, back to lurking...
But I'm just a wifi Sonic though.
Anyway, back to lurking...
Kinzer
Mammy
Well then if it works why do other things?
But obviously that isn't the end-all be-all answer, as things that work will get predictable and may as well have the same effect as the gimmicks; whether or not they actually land.
Seriously, I'm at a loss of what else to say. Perhaps just a passive-aggressive style is best for that kind of thing. You cannot go for either extreme as both are bad (should be obvious why), so you find a medium where you're at the advantage.
Mix-ups are so important. Both players/characters need to find what works and not commit to a pattern. Both have the same margin of error and both moreorless have the same risk. Vs. rewards. Just another one of those "I need experience to have an idea of what to do" MUs I guess.
Hope that helped a bit. I know it's easy to say all this on paper but much harder to do in practice. I promise you though that adaptability helps so much!
But obviously that isn't the end-all be-all answer, as things that work will get predictable and may as well have the same effect as the gimmicks; whether or not they actually land.
Seriously, I'm at a loss of what else to say. Perhaps just a passive-aggressive style is best for that kind of thing. You cannot go for either extreme as both are bad (should be obvious why), so you find a medium where you're at the advantage.
Mix-ups are so important. Both players/characters need to find what works and not commit to a pattern. Both have the same margin of error and both moreorless have the same risk. Vs. rewards. Just another one of those "I need experience to have an idea of what to do" MUs I guess.
Hope that helped a bit. I know it's easy to say all this on paper but much harder to do in practice. I promise you though that adaptability helps so much!
Shield and timing doesn't work on wifi. That may or may not contribute.