Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Tenki]

Wherever he can claim a slight advantage (even if it turns out to be 51:49) is important for his image. If everyone thinks that sonic really doesn't have the edge over every character that commonly appears in tourny's, then we will start to see less Sonics being played.

Eh, I don't think that's really a big deal.

It's really a matter of learning how to play the matchup moreso than the matchup ratios. The people who use ratios to choose a character are people who are looking for counterpicks or people who don't actually main the character.

I don't really imagine many people choosing to secondary Sonic or using him as a counterpick because there are better characters to CP with out there - however, people that use him have reasons like fun, fanboyism, or playstyle compatibility that affect their choice much more than any matchup ratio could.

TL;DR
The Sonics that place/matter don't really need MU ratios to decide whether or not they play as Sonic. lol.

 

[Kinzer]

I must be insane then DJ, taking out Vegas' Olimar player. THE MU is not so bad when all they @#$%ing do is the same crap that only works sometimes.

Also Rick, I'll get back to you when I can beat SK92 with Sonic.

In the meantime, tell me life will be.

 

[Chis]

I'm doing the Metaknight section. It may take a while.... So what can Sonic do against Dair and Fair to Dair again? And planking.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Uhh...?
Fair has the dead zone after it's finished, like 20 frames. Punish that. He should use FF F-airs. I'm not sure if U-air outranges D-air. Seeing as stupid as I am, I'd probably Hyphen Smash right into it and hope I hit him.

Planking, as in falling down ledge using U-airs and regrab? Spring or B-air. I'd first go for the B-air, but if he's smart I'll probably drop Springs untill I get him up to more damage than me. I have 8 minutes anyway.

 

[~TBS~]

I cannot fight Falco with Sonic to save my life

The lasers don't fuss me that much. It's his ruddy Nair and chaingrab that makes me feel helpless. Unless I'm doing it wrong, Falco can chaingrab Sonic and Dair spike him like other characters. Good thing Sonic has very good recovery

However, when it comes to approaching...I'm at a loss. Falco's Nair rips through just about everything. Grabbing is dangerous cause if you miss and he grabs you, it's chaingrab to follow up time. Whilst they aren't too bad since Sonic can get in Falco's face pretty quickly, lasers are very irritating and force you to stop and avoid them (or get hit)

Help :<

I have the same situation as Rick. The whole chaingrab to dair and regrab thing, and no, its unescapable if done right. Falco is like just WAY too DUMB GOOD I mean, seriously, i dont know how to get past it, but i have only played good Falco online I think its a little easier offline, but still.

@Gf2tw
Planking metaknights...I mix it up, like you. But i am more inclined to drop a spring. MK just has too many options with this whole plaking thing. You try to go for a bair, cant they shuttle loop or nair you? If he cant, then that makes MK a little bit more easier for me.

 

[Kinzer]

I've hit SK with ledgedropped stagespiking Bairs when he was MK.

Not sure how legit that was though, he's still only working on his MK, but that's how I killed him both times in that one match.

I would say that dropping Springs is the option with the least amount of risk behind it, but it's reward is not as stellar, but that's to be expected.

 

[JayBee]

i personallt dont think DDD is that hard of a matchup, if you want to fundamentally talk about chain grabs, that's fine, so i wont get grabbed to much then. which isn't hard for sonic to do. bair is a good move for DDD, but he's not gimping sonic. then he gets comboed by him too easily. put sonic under him and all he has is spot dodge and dair, both are punishable once baited, becuase that's what the best options are. im not saying the matchup is even, but its a slight disadvantage for sonic IMO. same with DK, as long as you keep F smash unstale, and Dsmash relatively strong.

 

[Boxob.]

Olimar is gay and is the reason why I don't practice brawl.

 

[Kinzer]

^^

Boxob, he has spoken.

Truth is also in his post too.

Luckily there are no skilled Olimars who just do the same thing over and over again so once you read them you're good to go. Granted you'll still have to do work but as long as trashy players don't get wins they don't deserve, it's all good.

 

[JayBee]

dont john, boxhead. lrn2player or lrn2secondary. if dat dont work then lrn2metaknight.

 

[Boxob.]

Trashy players do get wins though.

All you need to do is grab, literally.

 

[Kinzer]

Wrong Boxob.

I'm afraid it works like this:

All you need to do is pivot grab, literally.

Still, nothing a good ol' Spinshot-err... a CiTH combo can't take care of.

The former still works though, but bonus points for connecting with the Spring -> Dair.

 

[SuSa]

Don't get.. wait that don't work.

Lurn2MK.

Wait... you're doing that too....

Boxob's sonic is god.

That is all.

(Olimar just needs to grab. Unless you somehow manage to Spring him to death)

 

[Boxob.]

<3

Olimar's gay even with meta honestly.

Just play RyanK/superryan. He'll show you.

 

[da K.I.D.]

why wasnt he at apex

 

[Boxob.]

Car/money johns I believe.

 

[RenegadeRaven]

yup Oli is very ghey. His ****ing up smash >_>

 

[JayBee]

boxob's sonic is good, you'll either figure it out, out counter him wiht another character. i believe in you boxhead...

 

[Chis]

Let's stay on topic guys....

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

What happened to Falco? Q_Q

Olimar annoys me. Gimping him is fun though. Get ready to grab the ledge. How do we approach Olimar? Pikmin either clash or out priotize stuff

 

[da K.I.D.]

i played/lost to rhymes olimar at apex.

all he did was grab and up smash.

the only thing i could really do was spam asc to get over the grab, and even then i got up smashed out of it about a third of the time. i should have tried more falling bair tho.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Olimar is pretty much the only match-up we've got that looks okay on paper but is horrible in reality.

Rick, Pikmin I believe have very little priority, as they still count as projectiles even if used in smashes and such (correct me if I'm wrong.) It's all about timing and spacing properly.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Get him to spam Side-B, shake them off with N-air, run for your life and try a Dash Attack, ASC, fakeout, whatever you want. Force him to force you to approach... O_o

BTW, Sonic is 17th on Kokus thread. Do we win steak? We are above PT now again, like we should be >:]

 

[~TBS~]

i played/lost to rhymes olimar at apex.

all he did was grab and up smash.

the only thing i could really do was spam asc to get over the grab, and even then i got up smashed out of it about a third of the time. i should have tried more falling bair tho.

Ok. KID gets the gist of it. ASC and bair can really do a number on this guy. just be careful to not get hit by his upsmash or pivots. things are really ghey.

Olimar is pretty much the only match-up we've got that looks okay on paper but is horrible in reality.

Rick, Pikmin I believe have very little priority, as they still count as projectiles even if used in smashes and such (correct me if I'm wrong.) It's all about timing and spacing properly.

^^QFT. Yeah, the pikmin priority sucks, and they count as projectiles. The only thing that can really just us down is that utlit and nair. If an Olimar does that to us with good timing, we are screwed and need to turn to baiting. Which is really hard when you got pikmin spam and stupid grabs.

Get him to spam Side-B, shake them off with N-air, run for your life and try a Dash Attack, ASC, fakeout, whatever you want. Force him to force you to approach... O_o

BTW, Sonic is 17th on Kokus thread. Do we win steak? We are above PT now again, like we should be >:]

A good olimar will be right in your face if you try to shake them off with nair. For example, you try to jump and nair them off, then he comes up and upsmash that ending lag. Its really ghey, but i think a VSDJ will do the trick. Dash attacking isnt good, that gets pivot grabbed. ASC owns olimar if utilt and nair arent there. yeah, fakeouts are very good, it just depends on what kind of fakeout you try. And you mindgamed me with that last comment. Force him to make you approach? isnt that somewhat bad? Gf2tw can win steak for mentioning we are 17th, though.

 

[Jim Morrison]

A good olimar will be right in your face if you try to shake them off with nair. For example, you try to jump and nair them off, then he comes up and upsmash that ending lag. Its really ghey, but i think a VSDJ will do the trick. Dash attacking isnt good, that gets pivot grabbed. ASC owns olimar if utilt and nair arent there. yeah, fakeouts are very good, it just depends on what kind of fakeout you try. And you mindgamed me with that last comment. Force him to make you approach? isnt that somewhat bad? Gf2tw can win steak for mentioning we are 17th, though.

What you're saying is true, that he COULD punish that lag, it depends on how far he is. Olimars usually want to be as far away as possible, but against Sonic that would be a rather bad position. And last comment isn't that hard, you can't force him to approach at all. Force him to force you to approach why not approaching. So he has to force your approach since Olimar DOES NOT APPROACH.

*om nom noms steak*

 

[~TBS~]

What you're saying is true, that he COULD punish that lag, it depends on how far he is. Olimars usually want to be as far away as possible, but against Sonic that would be a rather bad position. And last comment isn't that hard, you can't force him to approach at all. Force him to force you to approach why not approaching. So he has to force your approach since Olimar DOES NOT APPROACH.

*om nom noms steak*

oh i see. really, Olimar's want to be as far away as possible? the ones i play (too many to name) try to maintain a certain distance so that you cant get in a free hit, but to be close enough to make sure that their pikmin latch onto you. I think they are doing it wrong, lol.

me want steak, too.

 

[Jim Morrison]

That's what I mean, as far away as possible, but still be able to latch on Pikmin. That's wrong vs Sonic. You should be at half range so you can hyphen smash in when he tries to shake off.
Or grab
Or F-smash.

We seriously get ***** this matchup

65:35, I'm not gonna give any explanation whatsoever.

 

[Chis]

I remember Tenki saying something about Sonic being able to grab Olimar in-between grabs if spaced properly.

 

[~TBS~]

That's what I mean, as far away as possible, but still be able to latch on Pikmin. That's wrong vs Sonic. You should be at half range so you can hyphen smash in when he tries to shake off.
Or grab
Or F-smash.

We seriously get ***** this matchup

65:35, I'm not gonna give any explanation whatsoever.

^^Same. oddly enough, though, the olimar boards argue that its 45:55. wtf, how do we even begin to debate to to be that?

i'll give the explanation. he spams, kills, throws,

Spoiler

HHKJ's himself

and can shut us up with utilt and nair, nuff said. there is very little we can do to get around it, but if we play it right and bait him properly, hello gimps. thats somewhat of a BIG if, though.

 

[Chis]

Pikmin throw shouldn't really be that much of a problem for Sonic. And please explain how utilt and Nair shut Sonic down.

 

[Jim Morrison]

What Chis said.

And also, try to go for sweetspot D-air, no questions asked.

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Rick, Pikmin I believe have very little priority, as they still count as projectiles even if used in smashes and such (correct me if I'm wrong.) It's all about timing and spacing properly.

This. His priority really sucks. Squirtle can ftilt to approach if Oli's spamming Fsmash. It knocks them away everytime. Too bad Sonic can't do something like that... D=

^^Same. oddly enough, though, the olimar boards argue that its 45:55. wtf, how do we even begin to debate to to be that?

I think they all think their characters a lot worse than he actually is. His recovery isn't even as bad as they say it is. Because of how light he is, if you DI he should be able to make it back to the stage without latching with the tether....

And also, try to go for sweetspot D-air, no questions asked.

If he's below the stage without his second jump, then you're fine simply edgehogging. Watch out for those purple pikmen though, they stage spike. Try to time your invincy frames on get up.

If he's above the stage, but still needs his upB to tether/or hop to get back to the stage, then you should try for the ss Dair because if he tethers, he'll still be knocked back before he can reel in and grab the ledge. And if he airdodges... he dies.

But the thing is, he's not always gonna be below the stage... =(

 

[Jim Morrison]

That's why you use the sweetspot D-air as he's falling towards the stage where he should airdodge.

BTW, where are the olimar mains. I could get some here and have stick-up-the-butt unwinnable discussion with them?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Utilt and nair are gay.
And Guus, I distinctly remember you arguing for 45:55 first time round lol.

Pikmin Throw has never been or never will be a problem. Nair the little critters off and you're fine.

I've never been able to fight Olimar. Dead easy to gimp though, don't let anybody tell you otherwise because they are lying and deserve to be punished.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I know I was ROY, but I went to 60:40 now.
In the air, Olimar wins. Don't be fooled, his F-air owns our B-air and F-air. It will clank otherwise. D-air is useless for him though, because U-air outranges it badly. His U-air however is ****** us. D-air falls into it, Spring gets eaten up, only option is airdodge trough, which is bad for you.
I'll get some Olimars.

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

I know I was ROY, but I went to 60:40 now.
In the air, Olimar wins. Don't be fooled, his F-air owns our B-air and F-air. It will clank otherwise. D-air is useless for him though, because U-air outranges it badly. His U-air however is ****** us. D-air falls into it, Spring gets eaten up, only option is airdodge trough, which is bad for you.
I'll get some Olimars.

Sorry it took me so long, I'll try to help you guys.

Utilt and nair are gay.
And Guus, I distinctly remember you arguing for 45:55 first time round lol.

Pikmin Throw has never been or never will be a problem. Nair the little critters off and you're fine.

I've never been able to fight Olimar. Dead easy to gimp though, don't let anybody tell you otherwise because they are lying and deserve to be punished.

Pikmin throw versus Sonic is kinda situational, it shouldn't be spammed but should be used to make Sonic approach us. Sonic could just use nair while he isn't close to us to shake them off anyway, or he could be smart, ignore them, and continue his assault.

Olimar isn't that easy to gimp though, you have to take into account of our whistle armor frames. I've yet to be actually gimped by a Sonic, SM5 tried everything but unless I mess up I'm not going down....at least not that easily.

Pikmin throw shouldn't really be that much of a problem for Sonic. And please explain how utilt and Nair shut Sonic down.

Utilt and nair out prioritizes almost all of sonic's attacks, it kills most of his approaches as well. I say that Sonics bair would probably be a safe counter, but when considering our fair it doesn't help that much(then again, pikmin have little to no priority).

 

[Zori]

i love this match up :] i even got the timing down on all spin dash variations so i can grab :D I think this match is in olimar favor but i dont want to type why >_> <_<


*useless post*

 

[Chis]

Olimar isn't that easy to gimp though, you have to take into account of our whistle armor frames. I've yet to be actually gimped by a Sonic, SM5 tried everything but unless I mess up I'm not going down....at least not that easily.

*Slaps SM5*

Utilt and nair out prioritizes almost all of sonic's attacks, it kills most of his approaches as well. I say that Sonics bair would probably be a safe counter, but when considering our fair it doesn't help that much(then again, pikmin have little to no priority).

The definition for priority is in the 'Is Sonic better then' thread. Anyways, not it doesn't. It just comes out fast. A Bair and Uair wil sort it.

i love this match up :] i even got the timing down on all spin dash variations so i can grab :D I think this match is in olimar favour but i don’t want to type why >_> <_<

*useless post*

lol spin dashing into Olimars. Yeah, I don't think that really happens often...


Pro tip: Sonic, if spaced well, can grab Olimar inbetween grabs.

 

[DanGR]

What happened to "Sonic has a lot of ways to kill pikmin"? ^_____^

 

[RenegadeRaven]

He does >_> it's just not getting grabbed in the process can be quite daunting.