Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[Sonic Orochi]

+1 to Sheik being a terrible MU for us.

 

[kj22]

Does anyone else like fighting sonics? There's something about maining a character and having the opportunity to destroy your main as someone else.
Especially sonic mains for some reason, esp those who just spindash over and over again. I'm just like...ik how to stop you, you don't get to do no nonsense vs me


I played a Luigi in tourney by the name of Cyanide, didn't really have a good answer to fireballs. Jabbing them or shielding them actually Locks you in shield stun for a little bit (similar to mega man metal blade through your shield) , didn't try ftilt. Looking back I prolly should've tried asc over them and hitting him, maybe sonic can get there in time? Or using side b invincibility frames to get through.

Offstage it was actually pretty hard to gimp him, as he'd just airdodge chain back to the ledge then upb ;/ pretty sure I could've interrupted once or twice but didn't wanna give up stage position.

Hed use cyclone as a mixup and that'd tear through whatever I was doing lol

Also there's a set of boss vs 6wx and I'm pretty sure 6wx got destroyed.
Not saying 2 players determine a matchup but there definitely among the tops of there characters.

Having a kill throw+rage realllly saves sonic. People actually fearing our grab almost (lol nr not even close) makes up for us unable to asc cancel, as we can convert to a kill if they shield

 

[kataridragon]

The phrase "Worst top 5 character ever" makes me a little worried for a few reasons.

 

[Kinzer]

It shouldn't.

The fact that Sonic is a "worst of the best" character is an improve from "best of the worst."

It just means Sonic' have to work for that position. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing. After all, You don't get to place 1st at tournaments for free like Diidy/Meta Knight. Apparently Sonic prefers taking the long (hard) way to victory.

 

[Camalange]

Does anyone else like fighting sonics? There's something about maining a character and having the opportunity to destroy your main as someone else.
Especially sonic mains for some reason, esp those who just spindash over and over again. I'm just like...ik how to stop you, you don't get to do no nonsense vs me

Apparently I do, because I handle the mirror well.

I played a Luigi in tourney by the name of Cyanide, didn't really have a good answer to fireballs. Jabbing them or shielding them actually Locks you in shield stun for a little bit (similar to mega man metal blade through your shield) , didn't try ftilt. Looking back I prolly should've tried asc over them and hitting him, maybe sonic can get there in time? Or using side b invincibility frames to get through.

Offstage it was actually pretty hard to gimp him, as he'd just airdodge chain back to the ledge then upb ;/ pretty sure I could've interrupted once or twice but didn't wanna give up stage position.

Hed use cyclone as a mixup and that'd tear through whatever I was doing lol

Yuuup.

Well, with the exception of the airdodge thing. Airdodge is super punishable. Even a dropped spring handles airdodge spam offstage pretty effectively.

His Tornado is a lot safer. His UpB is really bad, yeah, even worse from Brawl, but they save that as a last resort.

Also there's a set of boss vs 6wx and I'm pretty sure 6wx got destroyed.
Not saying 2 players determine a matchup but there definitely among the tops of there characters.

I should look this up.

Having a kill throw+rage realllly saves sonic. People actually fearing our grab almost (lol nr not even close) makes up for us unable to asc cancel, as we can convert to a kill if they shield

It doesn't save our approach options though, considering the kill set-up is still just run and grab lol.

Bthrow doesn't kill until like 130% or more without rage. But once we're in rage it can kill as early as 90 sometimes. ****'s wild.


And yes, all we mean by the worst of top 5 is yeah, Sonic is good (I still don't think top 5, let's go with top 10) but Sonic pretty much loses to (or is even with) everyone in those tiers lol. With a few exceptions I'm sure, as top 10 is very debatable.

 

[kataridragon]

So what is the deal with melee players hating on smash 4? I honestly have no clue about any of it. I just saw some reddit posts and some others on here talking about it. I am curious and completely out of the loop.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

if you guys are struggling vs luigi once we get our MU research thread up, i'll gladly cover the luigi section. If you can learn to power shield fireballs it makes the MU so much easier. I have videos vs DJ Delta who isn't necessarily a bad luigi by any means as well as vs Belac who did pretty well from what i heard at apex. Granted some of you played luigi's like jMiller and boss so i could be wrong in this assumption due to their playstyles possibly being much more refined but i feel the luigi vs sonic MU is still in our favor.

 

[Kinzer]

So what is the deal with melee players hating on smash 4? I honestly have no clue about any of it. I just saw some reddit posts and-

There's your problem.

You're also trying to reason with the most fanatical of fans; which, was your second mistake.

People with reason can acknowledge that Brawl sucked Melee and Sm4sh have their own take on the series and both are good games that can be played competitively. Which one you go with is a personal matter of preference.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Side b will run out unless you're on top of him. The reason ftilt works is because you're checking into the fireball/nondashshieldable area. If you're reacting you've given him minimum your reaction plus the startup of ftilt. Then he has to run robbing him of a few more frames. Gotta make sure your spacing is on though.

 

[da K.I.D.]

We cant agree on matchips because they are subjective and stupid. We dont need subjectivity, we need cold hard objective facts right now. And you know whats cold hard and objective (besides my ****)? This hypno smash when i know its going to kill you.

I dont have a firm handle on this rage thing yet so i either end up jjust waiting until 0 percent moves will kill, and letting people live way longer than i need to, or trying to gues how much rage i have and trying to kill someone super early And failing and having them come back and kill me because i had tons of rage due to bbeing at 150

Find me some verifiable kill numbers on jigglypuff, fox, mario, ike and bowser with sonic at 0, 75 and 150 for f smash, up smash, down smash and back throw at the ledge, f/up throw and bair, and i promise you every sonic on this board will immediately get better.

Ps. I was talking to manny and the florida guys when i was visiting last week and one of the dudes let me in on some interesting info.
Apparently luigiss fireball has more shieldstun than hitstun. Which is goofy. So when you shield it, it more or less guarantees a grab from him because it locks you in. But getting hit by the fireball supposedly does next to no hitstun, so you can just take the hit and you have enough time to stuff anything the luigi tries to follow up with.

 

[kj22]

Ps. I was talking to manny and the florida guys when i was visiting last week and one of the dudes let me in on some interesting info.
Apparently luigiss fireball has more shieldstun than hitstun. Which is goofy. So when you shield it, it more or less guarantees a grab from him because it locks you in. But getting hit by the fireball supposedly does next to no hitstun, so you can just take the hit and you have enough time to stuff anything the luigi tries to follow up with.

I knew the shieldstun thing but not that it does almost no hitstun...hmm wonder if this applies to mario's fireballs as well.
I knew that thing locked you in shield. I could feel it when I played that luigi player...I was like no way my reflexes are that slow. I even tried jabbing it and got locked in a clang animation for a dumb amount of time and got grabbed lol. Nice tidbit tho!

 

[Camalange]

So what is the deal with melee players hating on smash 4?

Are you new to the Smash community? In general?

Side b will run out unless you're on top of him. The reason ftilt works is because you're checking into the fireball/nondashshieldable area. If you're reacting you've given him minimum your reaction plus the startup of ftilt. Then he has to run robbing him of a few more frames. Gotta make sure your spacing is on though.

So it still usually puts him in an advantageous situation.

We cant agree on matchips because they are subjective and stupid. We dont need subjectivity, we need cold hard objective facts right now.

They're subjective to a point. I think it's quite clear when characters have significant advantages or disadvantages.

And you know whats cold hard and objective (besides my ****)? This hypno smash when i know its going to kill you.

If your "****" is cold and hard at the same time, I am concerned for you.

I dont have a firm handle on this rage thing yet so i either end up jjust waiting until 0 percent moves will kill, and letting people live way longer than i need to, or trying to gues how much rage i have and trying to kill someone super early And failing and having them come back and kill me because i had tons of rage due to bbeing at 150

Find me some verifiable kill numbers on jigglypuff, fox, mario, ike and bowser with sonic at 0, 75 and 150 for f smash, up smash, down smash and back throw at the ledge, f/up throw and bair, and i promise you every sonic on this board will immediately get better.

Or maybe it's just you who needs to get better...

But I think that's a fair enough point. A bit exaggerated, but I already cited earlier that Bthrow won't kill at 0% until past 120%. These are important things to know.

Ps. I was talking to manny and the florida guys when i was visiting last week and one of the dudes let me in on some interesting info.
Apparently luigiss fireball has more shieldstun than hitstun. Which is goofy. So when you shield it, it more or less guarantees a grab from him because it locks you in. But getting hit by the fireball supposedly does next to no hitstun, so you can just take the hit and you have enough time to stuff anything the luigi tries to follow up with.

That was exactly my point.

Shielding it isn't safe... ****ing turns your shield into a jail cell.

But still, eating a hit is totally not like, a good option, so there's that.

 

[kataridragon]

Oooooh. I see I guess I never even bother to look into these thing too much.

I use to play melee.... Like 10 years ago.

I agree about the fanatics. I think melee players feel like they have something to prove or Sm4sh will destroy them.... Or something irrational like that.

Apparently people where chanting "melee" at Apex during Grand Finals. Very unsportsman like. I won't blame the Melee fans as a whole but I'm sure many were chanting and even more inhibit this behavior.

What a bunch of Smashists! (Sounds like fascists lol)

That aside when I said that the phrase "Worst top 5 character ever" makes me worry, I meant that it makes me worry about the balance of smash 4 all together. Ya dig?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Melee is still probably my favorite smash game. 4 is good though. Regardless there's no need to be a ****.

Honestly I'm kind of hoping PMDT is asked to make a special mode for smash 4. Argonaut got hired because they hacked the game boy and we got Star Fox out of that. Let's go Ninty.

 

[Espy Rose]

To hell with that.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

To hell with you!

 

[Espy Rose]

Been there, done that.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Oh? And how was Jersey?

 

[Espy Rose]

Smelled like dead dreams and burning oil.

 

[Kinzer]

That aside when I said that the phrase "Worst top 5 character ever" makes me worry, I meant that it makes me worry about the balance of smash 4 all together. Ya dig?

Oh.

Then feel free to be forever alone.

Because I, for one, am sick of being the underdog who barely loses sets.

It's about damn time that my dedication to my favorite childhood video game character paid off, FFS. I, for one, am not ashamed to be on the other side now. It really annoyed me that I lost to opponents who were either at the same skill level or worse but still won because they played a better character/a character who had something easily abused and not easily dealt with. It reminds me of my current part-time job where I deal with a lot of stupid people but I can't say anything to their face because I don't get money if I lose my patience with them.

If anybody says anything about me being a tier-***** to my face, they can suck my gigantic c*** before I find a way to convince my girlfriend to finally do that; because I was playing Sonic before he was good. I won't say before it was cool; because, let's face it: Sonic was always a cool dude.

edit: Oh, I forgot that that word was censored. Interesting; but, I think you know what I meant to say anyway.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Really looking forward to Mewtwo being a good top tier counter.

And even if he isn't, I'm probably gonna try to make him a secondary anyway.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, I'd prefer if we didn't, ya know, bastardize Smash 4 with another PM thanks.

I think Mr.R in KID's signature said it best: "melee is a bad, outdated, unbalanced game"

lol

In all seriousness, I love Melee but I don't have an interest in continuing to play it on a competitive level. I'm over it. I'm also completely over their community trying to sabotage any game that isn't theirs. I'm done going out of my way to support it when they've done nothing but try to hold back every other installment.

Really looking forward to Mewtwo being a good top tier counter.

And even if he isn't, I'm probably gonna try to make him a secondary anyway.

Joke's on you.

The only top tier hard counters is .

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'd still play him. Mootoo is one of my favs. Put Meowth in and I can play as my top 3!

I guess people would push for Melee mode to be standard. I just want to run around doing crazy ****. There's no way it'd be balanced. I was thinking of it being like omega mode in sf4.

With Armada dropping Peach for being too slow it really shows where melee is headed. It's hype right now but smash 4 is threatening. We're getting closed and closer to those 20xx jokes being a reality and it's the same thing that has basically killed Marvel 3.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I don't know how i would feel if mewtwo ended up hard countering sonic. :/

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I don't think that's really possible. Not the hard countering Sonic thing. That could totally happen but what are the odds that Mewtwo ****s up Sonic THAT bad but not anyone else? If he destroys Sonic that hard he's probably going to beat at least Sheik, Diddy or ZSS.

 

[kataridragon]

#foreveralone

Wow there is a lot of animosity going on between melee and the rest. I realized that there were elitists in the melee community just like in the MvC2 community but I guess I didn't realize it was such a problem.

I also look forward to Mewtwo. I really want a secondary for the sheik MU but I would end up playing Diddy or Sheik. Both those options seem lame. I mean I like sheik but sheik vs sheik... bleh.

Mewtwo needs to be Sheiks hard counter, I doubt it unless they rework his moveset but you never know!

Also Nintendo is pretty hush hush about Mewtwo. I haven't heard or seen anything since the 50 facts video. Isn't he supposed to be out in the next month or so?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

If Nair has a bigger hitbox or comes out faster that could really ruin Sheik's day. I don't think Side B and Down B are going to return in their old state. Maybe a Palutena like barrier for Reflect? That'd be good for needles. I dunno. Not really the place for this discussion.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I'm hoping the dev team either;

• buffs the rest of the cast so that they can have tools to deal with characters such as diddy and sheik
• nerf diddy's uair so that it's closer in power to like luigi's or marios and let sheik have some type of landing lag on fair if it isn't autocanceled (i find it silly how she gets to be the only character in the game exempt from suffering real landing lag on a combo move)
• adjust the games grab cooldown or regrab timer (as right now smash 4 is basically turned into a who is better at grabbing game.)

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think that last point is more because shields are pretty strong and throws are the best way to get combos. I was watching an Ike video for true combos cause I was considering trying him. Everything was basically throw to aerial. Falcon does that too. More ways to get legit combos from stray hits would make people lean away from throws.

 

[kataridragon]

I must say I do think Sheik having very little lag to no on most of her aerials on landing as well as unpublishable attacks on shield is a little much. Everything else I am cool with even needles.

Diddys grab combo just needs to be changed. Probably the way characters travel after his throw or the knockback.

This games combo system almost seems to be built on throws. Kinda weird and a little cheap at times.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

yea thats mainly the issue currently is not that the game doesn't have true combos. just that the game mostly relies on grabs to start combos and characters who may not have that as an option suffer in the long run vs those that do. Brawl was kind of like this except the lack of hitstun made it much more of a bait a reaction off the grab, or if your character was able to just CG them.

 

[kj22]

Saw some video about how footstools cancel grab animations and that footstools are frame 1.

Anybody see any uses for this? Spring and fair are the only things I see connecting after a grounded footstools. Oh maybe homing attack as well.

Could help when landing after using spring (though I'm sure a lot of sonics already do this), wait till the last second then footstool their head.

Omgggg anybody else surprised as I was when 6wx side-bd too far under the stage ,upd under the stage, wall jumped and made it back?? Ik that was easy to do in brawl but all the attempts I've seen have sonic wall jumping too far to grab the ledge.

 

[Camalange]

Could help when landing after using spring (though I'm sure a lot of sonics already do this), wait till the last second then footstool their head.

Or you'll get up smashed.

Omgggg anybody else surprised as I was when 6wx side-bd too far under the stage ,upd under the stage, wall jumped and made it back?? Ik that was easy to do in brawl but all the attempts I've seen have sonic wall jumping too far to grab the ledge.

Nope. You can even sometimes ride out the Side-B under the stage and go to the other side. That was like one of the first things I tested in this game when I saw the change of the arc.

Can still do it just fine with Down-B too.

 

[Espy Rose]

I've been doing the same whenever I flub a recovery. It's pretty easy actually.

@Cama: Footstool after spring works out a lot better than you think. I mean, you're right that you'll get usmashed, but a lot of players wait a bit too long, or they hide in shield if you come down with aerials often.

I've been able to footstool into buffered dair like in Brawl for a free hit here or there.

It's still a stupid idea, but it's an idea none the less.

 

[Camalange]

I've done it before.

I've also been Usmashed before.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm just saying that if you're good, you can condition enough for it to work.
Guess you just aren't. :\

 

[Camalange]

I'm just saying that if you're good, you can condition enough for it to work.
Guess you just aren't. :\

Or you can still get Usmashed.

 

[Espy Rose]

But I'm not bad.

 

[Camalange]

But I'm not bad.

I mean, you're right that you'll get usmashed

It's still a stupid idea, but it's an idea none the less.

 

[Chis]

If anybody says anything about me being a tier-***** to my face, they can suck my gigantic c*** before I find a way to convince my girlfriend to finally do that; because I was playing Sonic before he was good. I won't say before it was cool; because, let's face it: Sonic was always a cool dude.

edit: Oh, I forgot that that word was censored. Interesting; but, I think you know what I meant to say anyway.

?
Suck your controller?