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Sonic is so mean to Bowser!

DiasFlac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
442
Location
Maryland (East Coast)
I can beat projectile spamming Pit's, Wolfs and so on. I can beat bair camping Game and Watches I can beat good Snake players who spam grenades,upsmash, motor slide and whatever else. I beat mach tornado, downsmash,forward B, Up B spamming Metaknights

But!! when it comes to Good Sonic players everything I know just goes out the window...

I really believe that Sonic is god tier when it comes to Bowser. Any tips would be great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp5xqqmPzuo&feature=PlayList&p=CEF8401A6109F32E&index=180


Me finding a good way to get around Sonic players!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sZeVTH0qm8&feature=PlayList&p=CEF8401A6109F32E&index=181
 

DarkDefeater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
88
Location
Midwest, U.S.
Impressive match

Well, that was quite a match. Considering how slow Bowser is, I think you did great against the blue blur. Heck, you were close to winning, so I do not believe the Sonic vs Bowser is as one-sided as you believe.

As for tips, I really don't have any to give you. However, being a Bowser and Sonic mainer, I am also intrested in any advice that can be given.

If I can defeat Sonic with someone as slow as Bowser, I'll be a happy camper.
 

KoopaKoopaParatroopa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
83
Location
Sugar Land, TX (SW Houston)
yeah, I remember someone saying that Bowser/Sonic matchup should be neutral, but I disagree with that.

it seemed that your firebreath really helped in getting sonic away from you in that match, but Sonic's sideB is still really a;fjds;sa;lkd.

I hope some Sonic players will come in and help >.>
 

Demenise

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
498
Well, one major thing that you're doing is leaving yourself wide open for Sonic's spin attack. Sonic's spin attack is like a faster Egg Roll; you start out and can only go in one direction. When he's using the Spin Attack, don't stand there. Attack him. Fire Breath does very well here.

Remember that Fortress leaves you open to Sonic, so don't use it when you think he'll shield. I saw many opporitunities where you used Fortress and left yourself open.

That brings me to another thing: grab more. There were times where he was in front of you, and all you did was attack with a laggy move or stood there. Just remember to grab; it's actually not a bad option.
 

4U2NV

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
20
Location
London,England
I think its kind of hard not to leave yourself open against sonic he’s just so fast! Anyways you did way better than I could ever do vs a sonic like that :-)
 

DiasFlac

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 3, 2008
Messages
442
Location
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Note that I do beat Sonic's but I just lose to good ones. Its funny how I can beat every other character in the game using the hardest tactics and playing as campy as they can and I still come out on top but I have a hard time against a character who has no projectiles.

Yeah I play very defensive against Sonic but like some have stated above he is to fast so it makes it hard for me to actually keep that defensive up. Up B out of shield doesn't work against Spin dash often Sonic can do it as bait then jump up right when you use it and punish you for doing so.

I've learned to kinda stay away from Up B out of shield with Sonic and to only really use it when he does any attack other then spin dash.

Note: Sonic can also spin dash cancel into a grab which makes it tougher so spot dodging seems to be the best choice when trying to predict his moves. I should either spot dodge to get away from it or try to attack to stop it.

What sucks is whenever I do attack his spin dash seems to usually come out on top.

Firebreath is useful but you have to becareful when you use it.

Its funny cuz Bowser actually is to slow for Sonic. (lol)

I've found it easier to beat Sonic's on Battlefield then FD (since he doesn't have much room for running) but I don't always get that pick.
 

Nitros14

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
200
Location
B.C. Canada
Doesn't neutral air outprioritize sonic's forward air? Probably could have got that off a few times if I'm remembering correctly.
 

Kiyosuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
367
Sonic's mean to everyone, don't let it get to you guys. He's just a jerk. I hope Tails sabotages his shoes or something one day.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
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GA
;O been a while since we played, Dias

There were some things in that video that were reminiscent of when I went vs FD to change the Ganon/Sonic matchup - it looked like you were letting him pressure you.

Try not to have moves that hit empty air even if he's far away from you, cause that's begging for punishment.
Yeah I play very defensive against Sonic but like some have stated above he is to fast so it makes it hard for me to actually keep that defensive up. Up B out of shield doesn't work against Spin dash often Sonic can do it as bait then jump up right when you use it and punish you for doing so.

I've learned to kinda stay away from Up B out of shield with Sonic and to only really use it when he does any attack other then spin dash.

Note: Sonic can also spin dash cancel into a grab which makes it tougher so spot dodging seems to be the best choice when trying to predict his moves. I should either spot dodge to get away from it or try to attack to stop it.

What sucks is whenever I do attack his spin dash seems to usually come out on top.

Firebreath is useful but you have to becareful when you use it.

Its funny cuz Bowser actually is to slow for Sonic. (lol)

I've found it easier to beat Sonic's on Battlefield then FD (since he doesn't have much room for running) but I don't always get that pick.
- Spindash clangs with and stops grounded Fortress, AFAIK. Sonic players are generally mindful of their priority problems and some expect the clang, so they are ready to start tilts/jabs/whatever as soon as it happens, whereas people with decent priority tend not to.

- Honestly, one of Sonic's biggest weaknesses are people who can read his moves. Like if they're high above you, prepare to punish a D-air, since it's most likely to happen.

- vs Homing attack: shield the HA, jump and aerial.

Also, don't stale your kill moves `.` nothing worse than having that ONE window of opportunity to kill and... whoopsie, didn't kill because it was staled out half a minute ago! ><;

- If you mean the 'aerial spindash' > grab, you can grab Sonic before he can grab you. Spotdodging the aerial spindash is actually kinda bad because it allows him to grab you out of your dodge.

- You can grab Sonic out of grounded spindashes, which, if you can learn the timing, is much better than trying to dodge them. Hard to do online, but it should be easier offline.

- watch out for landing lag ;[

I played against ZeonStar a few times today. He's played against me alot, so he kinda knows my tendencies, and the match results were pretty even (he won a handful of em).

Infinite jump can be nice but don't do it too much, either, cause it seems to be pretty vulnerable at the top of the jump. =/
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
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I want to Money Match Dias' Bowser wiff my Snake. ^_^ just cause I like ****** bowser players till they get a secondary.
 

ZeonStar

Smash Ace
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Apr 13, 2006
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601
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Rome, GA
Yeah, Sonic is a pain with Bowser, especially in any lag, you really need precision to hit him because hes so fast and so small. I want to play people offline :(
 

da K.I.D.

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Rochester, NY
I want to Money Match Dias' Bowser wiff my Snake. ^_^ just cause I like ****** bowser players till they get a secondary.
1. you are horrible.... rofl

2. i think i need to set up a smash fest, for when i visit Ri again...

and 3: the best trick to do is to play him like wario

for those who dont play wario...

wario is the worst possible match for sonic because he can spam bite and outprioritise every possible option sonic has...

you can do the same thing with side b. seriously, i got grabbed out of a perfectly spaced b-air, in midair. i was so pissed. but if hes over pressurin you, just throw a side b out there and see what happens, sometimes it can be the only thing you can do. spam it as hard as you can, it works
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
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Jun 19, 2006
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8,225
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Tampa, FL
Dont play against Sonic on Final destination, that's the lesson I've learned in ANY situation.
 

phate

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
159
Location
Dacula, GA
wario is the worst possible match for sonic because he can spam bite and outprioritise every possible option sonic has...

you can do the same thing with side b. seriously, i got grabbed out of a perfectly spaced b-air, in midair. i was so pissed. but if hes over pressurin you, just throw a side b out there and see what happens, sometimes it can be the only thing you can do. spam it as hard as you can, it works
I think G&W is the worst matchup for sonic. At least you can attempt egeguarding wario....


Anyway I played dias with sonic and yea he is really good at ruining my approaches. It took me a couple matches to start putting up a fight. I think the matchup can be heavily influenced by the stage though. A good ground game on battlefield with bowser is hell to get around with sonic.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
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Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
Nah. He found a good way to deal with Sonic's approaches. Just powershield to fortress shaerials. Now I need to find a way around THAT.
Ftilt has enough range so that even if he powwershields to fortress you can shield it. It is a bit difficult.
I think you can also attempt an ASC ~footstool

wario is the worst possible match for sonic because he can spam bite and outprioritise every possible option sonic has...
So does more than half the cast.
You shouldn't be getting bitten, its just like facing Kirby. If you are going to spindash/charge use it only when you know he cannot bite you out of it, or a a method of approaching.
Spincharge/dash towards him, jump then Dair when he bites.
best method if they start spamming the bite or you can spinshot and Bair them.

The real issue is the aerial game, thats where Wario starts problms. He is faster, has more priority and killing power.
The ground game is not as much of an issue as the aerial game and a good Wario will take advantage of his aerial ability.

Spamming is the last thing you as a Sonic user should do, since as soon as you start spamming you become predictable and any character will punish you hard. Don't do it, evne if ypu feel like you're being over pressured don't start spamming cause you'll just dig yourself a bigger hole.

Attack from above and below to avoid the bite and make use of spring dropping.
but for the love of god don't spam. Sonic is not a character who can get away with it.

Regardless he is not the worst character to face as Sonic. You can get around his moves and you can pressure him well and bait him. he's not exactly the fastest character.

His ground game isn't the best, he is slow on the ground so most of the time he will be in the air. If he uses the bike punish him hard since the bike isn't the greatest thing to use against Sonic.

If you space properly the match becomes more mangeable.

I think G&W is the worst matchup for sonic. At least you can attempt egeguarding wario....
Its somewhat similar with less aerial dominance and more ground dominance.
priority is of course always an issue as well as range, however the best thing to do is bait and use your homing attack sparingly.
Stutter step your Fsmash's since they clank both the Dsmash, Usmash and Fsmash.

UNliek Wario he can't stop your ground game with just a bite, and many of his attacks ahve a relatively narrow hitbox so spindashing is effective against a grounded G&W.

He will use that Bair and its very effective despite being predictable.
What is best though is to shield grab him. Yeah people say it shield pokes and thats true but to begin with, you aren't supposed to be close up so when you do shield that Bair, it should have been full already.

You can harass G&W off stage, Fair is really good because G&W won't use his Fair unless he is sure it won't harm him, and if you know he will use it, bait him into using it, fast fall and Uair him. No sane G&W will try to Dair you off the stage so attack from below.

Of course its still a tough matchup because of G&W's highly damaging moves and very strong smashes.


Luigi on the other hand. He's definitely the worst matchup.
Why?

fireballs break the spindash unless timed perfectly, spincharge clanks.
His Fsmash kills very easily and is faster than yours.
Dsmash is brutal.
his aerial game counters everything you have.
Nair breaks your Nair, Fair, Dair, Bair (tip of the foot clashes)
Uair is the only one that can get at him.

He comboes very well, dominates the air, shuts down the ground game.
You end up being very grabby as Sonic and you cannot stay in the air as long as you coul against Wario and G&W.

But thats my thoughts anyway.
 

DiasFlac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
442
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DiasFlac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
442
Location
Maryland (East Coast)
hmm I wish I could paly you dias in person. I want to try against your Bowser and see how well I do.
yeah lag sucks. Trust me I know. I suck big time in input lag. I don't get many laggy games but whenever I play a player I know is good their input lag or their that kinda lag where the game slows down at random times.

>.<
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
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Portugal
Granted, the Snakes I'm playing might not be playing him to his fullest potential, but from what I've played well spaced air klaws work well enough. If you want to face a character that'll make you find a secondary asap I recommend Dedede.
 

DiasFlac

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 3, 2008
Messages
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Well I'm not sure why everyone wants me to play a secondary character. I have the MOST fun and enjoyment playing my Bowser.

Whether I win or lose I continue to play him because I believe thats the best way to improve. I've played the toughest of players and the lamest (and the ones inbetween) and I still continue to pick Bowser match after match after match.

and every match I see myself improving and figuring out ways around the other players tactics.

I don't complain about a player tactics, I find away around them!:cool:

and thats just what I do. I've been 2stocked by crazy good D3 who chaingrab and I've gotten blown around by insane Snake players but you can bet the next character they see after they crush me is good old Koopa.

I wouldn't be able to beat Snake's today if I switched characters every time I lost a match with Bowser (note I still get beat by them but I've found a tactic that works for me when brawling them)

and its that same faith that leads me to believe that I can beat any character I come up against with a little practice and knowledge both of which I continue to get better at.

Yeah I'll keep losing but I'll keep winning as well. :)

To me Its just fun being Bowser and don't take that as a scrub remark. Read my sig and your see I'm a competitive player through and through. Play to win!

And with my Bowser I'll Play to Win!! :bigthumbu

This is just what I mean :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp5xqqmPzuo&feature=PlayList&p=CEF8401A6109F32E&index=180

and me winning after finding away around that tactic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sZeVTH0qm8&feature=PlayList&p=CEF8401A6109F32E&index=181

yeah he'll figure out something to beat what I'm doing but I'll be sure to do the same and the world keeps turning.

Bowser 4 Life!
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
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1. you are horrible.... rofl

2. i think i need to set up a smash fest, for when i visit Ri again...

and 3: the best trick to do is to play him like wario
1. I know, I can't help it, it's something you have to learn. You NEED a secondary.

2. We have Bi-Weeklies you should come sometime, want to team with a really gay snake/meta?

3. I agree with this and would do that if I played Wario.
 

Admiral Pit

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I always never liked that hedgehog, mainly because I hate fighting speed. I suppose lucky hits is the thing that helps me beat some Sonics, just like Cheap Ike's lucky hits towards others (Ignore the "Cheap" part... I just hate Ikes and their AAA spam <_< )
I guess playing Defensively is the way Id go, usually to do the Fortress outta shield thing.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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I have to play Dias some more. I always see him in AiB's chat in the morning but I'm usually too tired from work to want to challenge people. I'm off tonight so maybe I'll try to get a match later.
 

Sosuke

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lmao "sonics mean"'
But yeah be defensive as others have said.
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
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Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
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RI
1. I know, I can't help it, it's something you have to learn. You NEED a secondary.

2. We have Bi-Weeklies you should come sometime, want to team with a really gay snake/meta?

3. I agree with this and would do that if I played Wario.
You play Meta now? When did that happen? And why? Meta can't ftilt in the air either.
 

Sesshomuronay

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
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Canada, British Columbia
Well I'm not sure why everyone wants me to play a secondary character. I have the MOST fun and enjoyment playing my Bowser.

Whether I win or lose I continue to play him because I believe thats the best way to improve. I've played the toughest of players and the lamest (and the ones inbetween) and I still continue to pick Bowser match after match after match.
I agree. Screw other people use whatever the hell is kool to you.
 
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