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Sonic General Discussion/Social thread
- Thread starter Wizzrobe
- Start date
Well, if the opponent knows you want to run and shield then I wouldn't keep doing that.
You could try mixing up approaches, like approaching with HA or spindash.
I think as the metagame evolves HA will only be used 1. at super close range or 2. to recover.
HA from any distance beyond, like, close will usually miss. Off stage it usually misses too, no matter how close you are. So I can't use it to finish off stocks as much as I want, and I can't use it to space from far away.
I think it could be used to recover due to its inconsistency, kinda like how when Mango techs he doesn't know which way he'll go either.
And for approaching Falco, in my head I'd think jumping above him and baiting an anything, then dairing could possibly work. Falco can't do much to characters that are above him, especially at the angle Dair comes in.
HA from any distance beyond, like, close will usually miss. Off stage it usually misses too, no matter how close you are. So I can't use it to finish off stocks as much as I want, and I can't use it to space from far away.
I think it could be used to recover due to its inconsistency, kinda like how when Mango techs he doesn't know which way he'll go either.
And for approaching Falco, in my head I'd think jumping above him and baiting an anything, then dairing could possibly work. Falco can't do much to characters that are above him, especially at the angle Dair comes in.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
What about edgeguarding?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQJ53_HKnI0&feature=youtu.be
So here's that Sonic pillaring thing I've talked about before. There's more than one way to do it, but this one is the most straightforward. Also it works to pretty freakin' high percents, but you may need to switch from dair to fair.
Also, sadly, dair sends down faster than Sonic falls, so you can't really chain it unless you, like, tech chase or something.
Comments, ideas?
Also, HA in a nutshell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3aUxi_P6ZI&feature=youtu.be&t=39s
So here's that Sonic pillaring thing I've talked about before. There's more than one way to do it, but this one is the most straightforward. Also it works to pretty freakin' high percents, but you may need to switch from dair to fair.
Also, sadly, dair sends down faster than Sonic falls, so you can't really chain it unless you, like, tech chase or something.
Comments, ideas?
Also, HA in a nutshell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3aUxi_P6ZI&feature=youtu.be&t=39s
HA is reliable, I just was not close enough and he was too mobile.
And now i got to watch all my videos.
It's not chance you just got to know how it works, the farther you are the less likely it is to hit because the HA slows down as the animation is ending so with that and the distance it travels to hit the opponent, a character with enough FF speed or aerial mobility is able to dodge it in the air.
when you are close it is very reliable since it comes out fast and is traveling at a high speed the whole time its going after the opponent since he is close enough.
Also...
about hamyojo's pillaring thing. I never end it with dair due to it sending the opponent down faster than sonic falls like he says and D-air has more landing lag than all sonic's other aerials so its easier to escape then it may seem. I always do Nair since it has good knockback and sends them in the air which is a much worse position for the opponent.
I know how it works lol.
I've also experienced times where it works one time, and not the other, but the scenarios were pretty much exactly the same.
Like have you not experienced the u-turn glitch that HA has? Where zooms in on an enemy, then then u-turns to go back to where he was?
Dumb **** like that makes this move unreliable.
AND DOES NO ONE FF DAIR Besides me and sethlon? jeez.
I've also experienced times where it works one time, and not the other, but the scenarios were pretty much exactly the same.
Like have you not experienced the u-turn glitch that HA has? Where zooms in on an enemy, then then u-turns to go back to where he was?
Dumb **** like that makes this move unreliable.
AND DOES NO ONE FF DAIR Besides me and sethlon? jeez.
The U-turn glitch is really rare and totally random so I didn't count it, but yea it does suck when it happens.
Also, I'm pretty sure every known Sonic does FF Dair except me, I just don't see what is so good about it.
I didn't even know it could be fast falled. This is news to me lol
Yeah, nair is what I always use.
I was thinking using this as some kind of mix up, I don't know. If you could tech chase the end of this with another one that could be pretty effective.
Also congrats on getting second at the Apex thingy!
Its useful for dair spiking people offstage and not plunging to your death lol. And occasionally useful for messing with your descent timing when people are below.
\Apples
Smash Journeyman
'Cause lasers. Every character has this problem with Falco, even the super sonic fast ones.
EDIT: When I click on a thread title, why does it not send me to the last page? I replied to this assuming it was recent. Damn forum.
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
I really hope that doesnt happenIm scared they'll take away our beloved down B, because people complain too much about it...
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
you have to click the little arrow
Mr.Pickle
Smash Lord
If it needs to be addressed they'll experiment with ways to adjust the move before just getting rid of it. Its the last thing they'll try, so don't worry too much about it.Im scared they'll take away our beloved down B, because people complain too much about it...
it also can give sonic gimp set ups offstage and chase setups on stage.
also anyone have tips for instant spinshotting from a SH. im trying ti intergrate it into my game after sethlon made me a believer of its offensive ability.
Planet Piss
Smash Journeyman
What's wrong about Sonic's down b? Besides its usefulness in recoveries, all it has going for it is its speed, mobility and ability to set-up for combos. Granted, those are all good qualities, but it's so easy to stuff the move if you're expecting it. Any disjointed hitboxes, projectiles, or quick, priority-laden moves negate it pretty heavily. Honestly, Sonic is only really good if you're not playing the matchup. He's like Jiggs in that he can appear really OP if you don't know what to expect.
Exactly, Down B is really good and people aren't used to it so it is overwhelming.
Once people figure out the MU they will realize how much more do able the MU is. I am already having people like Hbox and Plup starting to figure out the MU and it is a lot harder Sonic than people think.
I think the main problem is me spamming it, or overusing it. I was told that they want all characters to have to resort to using most of their moves and not just using a couple moves.
Archangel
Smash Hero
What's wrong with only using a few moves. Hbox has made an art form of it.
More importantly you and your opponent are bound to get bored much more quickly.
It sucks that it is a balanced move and it makes sense to use it all the time for everything.
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
If they do, you'll have to adjust. The whole point of this "public beta", so to speak, is so the PMBR knows what works and what doesn't. If they decides a move is too un-Melee, too spammable, too powerful, to weak, promotes unfavorable gameplay, or whatever the problem might be, then they'll re-work it. The most you can hope to do is to convince them otherwise.Im scared they'll take away our beloved down B, because people complain too much about it...
I know people are investing a lot of time into the game, but it's a bad idea to get too emotionally attached at this point in development.
Wizzy do you have any tips on hitting with Blast Attack after spindash. I almost never get it and if you do it's always looking so easy and smooth
Yes, I have been doing it since 2.1 .
While your spinning and your moving behind your opponent, turnaround and jump and you will be facing that direction.
you gotta remember to turn around.
OPTKeyo
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2013
- Messages
- 13
How do people cancel Sonic's down B while moving across the stage? Do I just jump out of it and instantly air dodge downwards? I just can't get it to look very clean lol.
Also, I'm not really sure when to use his side B. It just kinda feels like his down B except with a lot more awkward movement haha.
Thanks!
Also, I'm not really sure when to use his side B. It just kinda feels like his down B except with a lot more awkward movement haha.
Thanks!
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
That's basically exactly how you do it, but you have to remember that jumping out of Spin Dash has no jumpsquat frames, so you're in the air immediately. Obviously, this means the input window for wavedashing is much smaller than a normal wavedash, so you have to develop your timing for both normal wavedashing, and wavedashing out of your spindash.
Side B is amazing for a lot of different, unique purposes, but it's mostly a great way to get an opponent off the stage, and the kick is a pretty sweet followup in case someone things your roll is about to end and tried to grab you, and you just kick 'em(or alternative, kick past them and make 'em whiff the grab). It does take a lot of getting used to though, yeah, especially after 2.1 Sonic, may he rest in peace.
Side B is amazing for a lot of different, unique purposes, but it's mostly a great way to get an opponent off the stage, and the kick is a pretty sweet followup in case someone things your roll is about to end and tried to grab you, and you just kick 'em(or alternative, kick past them and make 'em whiff the grab). It does take a lot of getting used to though, yeah, especially after 2.1 Sonic, may he rest in peace.
http://www.twitch.tv/royalsyrup/b/362730078
Me, RoyalSyrup, and Adin are going to do this once a month.
This is the first one we did during the evo fund where we discuss Sonic metagame.
You guys should watch it, I'm not sure when the next episode is though so I'll let you guys know.
Me, RoyalSyrup, and Adin are going to do this once a month.
This is the first one we did during the evo fund where we discuss Sonic metagame.
You guys should watch it, I'm not sure when the next episode is though so I'll let you guys know.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
It's a very good idea but dammit you realize that video is 4 hours long?
When should I watch this
ProtomanVX
Smash Ace
Alright, so I'm gonna ask this here. I consider myself a good Sonic main with a lot to learn. I can usually beat most of the scene here, and online as well. My friend who is a Lucario main says that if I learn a certain mix-up, it would improve my game 10-fold and put me at a possible win for our upcoming tournament.
Anyone here have any idea what he's talking about?
Anyone here have any idea what he's talking about?
Watch it in parts instead of all at once.It's a very good idea but dammit you realize that video is 4 hours long?
When should I watch this
Have no idea, Sonic has plenty of mix-ups so he has to be specific lol.
ProtomanVX
Smash Ace
Best Sonic in the world and no help at all. Tsk tsk. jk
But that is what irks me. I practice with him several times a week, and he will not tell me. I guess my question is what are Sonic's best mix-ups?
Problem2
Smash Champion
Sonic has a ton of mix-ups just by spin dashing towards a shielding opponent. You can:
- retreating wavedash outside opponents range without touching them.
(fakes them out. You won't often get a free punish for doing this, but it makes opponents nervous)
- spin dash through your opponent's shield, then wavedash back in front of them.
(This is good if your opponent is too scared to move or if your opponent is going to try and punish from behind.)
- spin dash through your opponent's shield, then continue to wavedash past them
(Safer than the option above)
- spin dash through your opponent, turn around in the spindash, then pass through again
(This keeps out a hitbox to punish rolls and other movement options. You can also wavedash away at any time if your opponent tries to attack you.)
- spin dash at your opponent, jump over their head and homing attack or d-air.
(Your using the spin dash as a bait, then punishing their attempt to stuff it with HA. Good if your opponent keeps trying to stuff your spin dashes)
-spin dash into your opponent's shield, turn around while on top of the shield, jump and then d-air the back of their shield. You can also do the reverse blast attack instead because it is so safe on block.
(relatively safe shield pressure. The turn around animation of the spin dash hits a lot and the d-air beats the opponent jumping out of shield.)
-spin maneuver into opponent's shield, then wavedash or jump further past them.
(I wouldn't recommend trying to be too tricky with the spin maneuver against a shield. It's just not as versatile.)
-spin maneuver at an opponent's shield, then jump cancel grab.
(You have to start the SM rather early to land this. Sonic has to travel a certain distance in the SM before he can jump out of it. Mixing the spin maneuver with the spin dash is really good mix-up because you're introducing many different similar looking moves with alternate timings at an alarming speed. It can be jarring to keep up with.)
That's awesome!