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[Cosmic77]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

Here's a quick tier list of who I was most excited for.

(S)
(A)
(B)
(C)
(D)
(E)

Feeling brave enough to admit Banjo wasn't a character I wanted to see in Smash. Happy for his fans though.

Weren't there a handful of stages that didn't come back? Weapons too.

From the top of my head, I know the Hammerhead Bridge, Flounder Heights, and art museum stage didn't return.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It blows my mind that people feel this way. Like, Mario Kart is SSB Brawl. Here I am criticizing Brawl, and people are not only stating they're okay with it, but they're defending it. "No, don't take away my random tripping, it's fun with friends!" "Don't make the gameplay faster!" "You want more balanced items? Why? I play with max items, assist trophies and poke balls only." Can you really not imagine a better game? Can you not imagine Mario Kart's Melee? Both fun and fair?

I really don't think it's understood how much more potential Mario Kart has than has been realized. Specifically, how much is being intentionally removed from the game to minimize the impact of skill. No, the game's not all RNG. Neither is Brawl. That's not the point. The point is that there's too much randomness, and too much limitation on skill intentionally implemented into the game by devs. A game with a low skill ceiling disappoints me, but a game that intentionally limits its skill ceiling by design just ticks me off. It's awful game design. The goal should always be the lowest skill floor and the highest skill ceiling.

People just like different things than you. Not every game needs to be a competitively motivated one. There can be alternatives to the games with strictly competitive features. I mean, something like Gran Turismo or Forza Motorsport are probably the most objectively fair games since they entirely rely on skill, but I think a number of people also find them dull as dirt to actually play. Mario Kart knows its niche and doesn't care to deviate from it. And it shouldn't need to. There are plenty of racing games on the market for your personal preference. Maybe not as many Kart racers these days, but still.

Smash is a bit of a different story. It's the only successful game in it's type of genre so to speak. Sure, it vaguely fits a fighting game genre, but only just. There's no real alternative to the series and none of the copycats have come close. It's reputation in Melee was also built on competitive, Mario Kart never was and has always relied upon elements of randomness. That's just the type of game and series it is.

The goal shouldn't always be the lowest skill floor and the highest skill ceiling for all games. That's horribly restrictive game design and it won't always appeal to everyone. I get how it makes sense on paper, but not every game has to inherently have that basis of incredibly high skill ceilings since that will also turn off players even in the floor is low. Mario Kart as a series just isn't for you, play Modnation Racers or whatever else you prefer. The sales of Mario Kart reflect how many people enjoy it and its style well enough.

I know this is an old post but I saw this and wanted to give my two cents... although you probably already know a lot of this.

Spoiler

So Geno. Well, I love SMRPG dearly, I've stated it many times, it was basically my first RPG and still one of my all time favorite games to this day, basically my favorite SNES game alongside DKC2. I liked Geno a lot as a kid, he has a standout design and cool moves, I even dressed up as him for Halloween once. But I think that's all it ever really was, just this neat character in one of my favorite games. I never had the ravenous appetite for him that a lot of fans do. If he got in, I'd be happy for his fans and feel nostalgic for one of my favorite games, but I think that would be about it.

The only reason I would see him ever belonging in Smash is because of fan demand. Which is fine, people can support characters for whatever they want, but it irritates me when people blow up Geno's importance to be more than it is. Some supporters say he's "basically the main character of SMRPG" or try to pawn him off as some sort of mascot for the Mario RPGs in general. It's okay to accept that you just want this character because he's cool; he isn't an important character in the grand scheme of things. Just embrace that and don't try to argue that he's "Smash worthy."

Side note, comparisons to K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie also irritate me, given that those are significant recurring characters in their own franchises.

As for Geno's chances... well, Sakurai has been aware of the Geno demand since probably at least Brawl, as he said he wanted to put Geno in there. He seems to like Geno quite fine, even throwing in the costume in Smash 4 despite a dearth of Square content otherwise. He's said that he was aware of the rabid Banjo demand even after K. Rool and Ridley got in, so I'm almost certain he knows about the current Geno fervor, even if I suspect Geno didn't perform particularly well on the ballot based on the smaller Smash 4 fandom. Now we come to the core problem of Geno: Neither Nintendo or Square own him. They both own him jointly. What does this mean?

It means that Geno's ability to appear in other video games is extremely limited. He cannot exist in a video game without both companies approving it. This means the character, from a mascot/marketability perspective, is a dead end for both companies. Banjo in Smash means he promotes, even indirectly, Microsoft's hardware and software; MS still uses Banjo in advertisements even if Rare has no interest in future games. They clearly see the character as marketable. He's also basically an unknown outside of diehard Smash circles; my mother recognized Banjo-Kazooie because it was one of my favorite childhood games and knows it by name. She would have no idea who Geno is despite playing SMRPG a ton as a kid as well. Geno is a dead end. He would be put in purely to make a subset of Smash fans happy and that's it... and probably a great cost.

Tansut, a ResetERA insider with Square contacts, said he heard Cloud was a "pricey fellow" to get into Smash. I don't think this would bode well for a character that Square will see basically no marketing growth from. It's also Nintendo's money; are they going to want to pay out of the nose for this obscure character that neither company gets anything out of besides Smash DLC? Fan demand has its limits, and I think the money/legal situation of Geno is one of those limits.

I'm also about 90% certain Spirits deconfirm. The first three Fighters Pass characters have absolutely no content in Ultimate's base game and based on rumors, DLC characters were being decided for much of 2018. I think Spirits were decided in tandem with the Pass. A selling point for each of the characters so far is the franchise they are with as well as the character; with the stages, Spirits, and other nods. What is curious is that Geno and Mallow both got Spirits and Geno got a player icon, but I see this as just a nod to whatever ballot support Geno got. I think the Geno costume is nearly guaranteed to return with Hero... and if it doesn't, then it was probably cut for one reason or another.

There's just too much to overcome for Geno. If he was a first party character it would be different, but I just don't see his situation changing anytime soon. The character is obscure outside of internet forums and has no tangible future in video games. I also really don't see any doubling up of companies on the Fighters Pass and I think Banjo is going to be the only "fan favorite" character. Geno fans are free to think and hope for whatever they want, but I don't see how they aren't setting themselves up for inevitable disappointment. I've been there, waiting months and months and months for K. Rool in Smash 4, between base game and DLC speculation. I'd consider him pretty solidly deconfirmed, and I think for future games he still has to overcome the licensing/marketing issue, as well as his fans probably aging out and moving on. At the earliest, I can't imagine Smash 6 coming out before 2023. What will the Geno fanbase look like then? Still rallying for this then-nearly 30 year old character who has no future in the industry? I can only hope the Geno costume comes with Hero so Geno supporters can have a more realistic outlook on the character.

But... you never know.

Thanks for this honest and relatable response. I agree immensely with a lot of the issues you bring up and how Geno definitely seems to just have too much against him to happen in Smash. I'd love to be wrong, but I've seen nothing to make me reassess my initial thoughts. And the way people overvalue Geno (and hell Super Mario RPG itself) also really drives me crazy.

 

[Alternis]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

I doubt I could make a list with a template, so:

(S)
(A)
(B)
(C)
(D)

 

[Z25]

I'm team Chaos.

You know nothing, fool! It's Chaos! The God Of Destruction. pic.twitter.com/60St3hn2uw

— KDD (COMM status in bio) (@KetDarkDragon) June 26, 2019

This works so well, I love it!

 

[Nethermoosen]

Have we brought up that banjo-kazooie might have a skin where Kazooie is a dragon?

 

[Noipoi]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

Because I’m mobile posting

S
A
B
C
D

 

[TheMightyP]

In terms of hype for me:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
I sleep:

 

[PeridotGX]

From off the top of my jead, Urchin Underpass, Mahi Mahi Resort, Saltspray Rig, and Flounder Heights didn't return. Like 4 weapons didn't return either, and that was the Wasabi Splattershot, the Berry Splattershot Pro, the CoroCoro Roller, and the Kelp Charger, but all of those have third versions anyway. The Dual Squelchers are gone completely, in favor for the Dualie Squelchers, though the original Dual Squelcher is the exact same as the Splattershot Pro.

I miss some of the stages though, but they can keep Saltspray, that stage just sucked no matter the circumstances.


Oh, and there was also the Battle Dojo mode, nobody used it. No loss there.

And all the specials have been replaced. The only sub gone were the Seekers, and some useless ablilties got the axe

i still think it's strange they never brought back Urchin Underpass. It's the stage they used to represent the series in MK8D, you would think that would prevent it from being cut.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Here’s my own tier list for the newcomers:

(S) -
(A) -
(B) -
(C) -

I’m extremely happy with the additions to Ultimate overall. And depending on the day of the week, I might easily throw Piranha Plant or Incineroar into A tier. I just ranked them lower because I had no investment in them prior to release haha.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

Stuck on phone so
S)
A)
B)
C)
D)

 

[Mythra]

Mah list:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:

 

[Iridium]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

Hm, my list would probably go like this, probably:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:

Balanced.

Have we brought up that banjo-kazooie might have a skin where Kazooie is a dragon?

Banjo's specific colors will all reference the Care Bears.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

I liked the template, so I did my own take on it:

Spoiler

It looks a bit negative since it's a bit bottom heavy, but I don't even mind the ones in D, I don't really care for them either, but they've been decent additions regardless (Incineroar mostly just missed out on making C tier due to a lack of space lol). I'm overall very positive about this game's newcomer roster, if the last two choices are good I think it has the potential to be our best one yet, which says a lot since I hold Brawl's in really high esteem.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well I was gonna cut the grass at my house I'll be moving to this September but its now raining. Will do tomorrow. That said guess I'll be here for the rest of the day though I might watch a movie later with my dad.

 

[Opossum]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

Here's my personal ranking:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
D- :

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

If y'all haven't hated me already, you sure will now

S) Outstanding:
A) Solid:
B) Alright:
C) Eh:
D) No thanks:

So far, so good, a lot of pretty solid picks, and only a small handful I ain't the biggest fan of. Hoping the final two are potentially in the A or S ranks

 

[Deleted member]

Mah list:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:

> Hot anime guys being placed high.
> Banjo, Isabelle, Inkling, K-Rool, Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley being placed low.
A sad day, truly.

 

[Nethermoosen]

If y'all haven't hated me already, you sure will now

S) Outstanding:
A) Solid:
B) Alright:
C) Eh:
D) No thanks:

So far, so good, a lot of pretty solid picks, and only a small handful I ain't the biggest fan of. Hoping the final two are potentially in the A or S ranks

You have Ken occupying a high spot. I can’t hate you.

You have my reluctant respect.

> Hot anime guys being placed high.
> Banjo, Isabelle, Inkling, K-Rool, Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley being placed low.
A sad day, truly.

Simon and Richter are not even anime guys. And Mythra had Joker at the bottom.

 

[Deleted member]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

I've been really liking this game's roster. So far I'd rank it
S:
A:
B
C:
D:

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I've been really liking this game's roster. So far I'd rank it
S:
A:
B
C:
D:

Damn, they all failed the final exam

 

[Noipoi]

I've been really liking this game's roster. So far I'd rank it
S:
A:
B
C:
D:

Delicious, finally a good ****ing tier list.

 

[Gyrom8]

Don't know whether I'll pick Order or Chaos - Order has the cooler gear, but in the long term Chaos seems like a better bet as that might mean we get more Salmonids in Sploon 3

 

[TheMightyP]

Now, here's a more controversial ranking of DLC characters from both games in terms of hype.
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
I sleep:

 

[Cosmic77]

Incineroar consistently being ranked high or in the middle of these lists despite being relatively unpopular during speculation is further proof that Pokemon are safer picks than people give them credit for. Still rooting for that Gen 8 rep as DLC.

Also, I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that I'm not the only one who wasn't crazy about Banjo. I've seen about five or six lists rank him in the bottom three.

I liked the template, so I did my own take on it:

Spoiler

View attachment 229337

It looks a bit negative since it's a bit bottom heavy, but I don't even mind the ones in D, I don't really care for them either, but they've been decent additions regardless (Incineroar mostly just missed out on making C tier due to a lack of space lol). I'm overall very positive about this game's newcomer roster, if the last two choices are good I think it has the potential to be our best one yet, which says a lot since I hold Brawl's in really high esteem.

Wait, Ridley was your favorite? Didn't expect that.

Aside from Ridley and K. Rool though, there doesn't seem to be much our lists have in common. The cartoony characters are a bit low for my liking. Sill a decent list regardless.

 

[Mythra]

> Hot anime guys being placed high.
> Banjo, Isabelle, Inkling, K-Rool, Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley being placed low.
A sad day, truly.

Wait until they (hopefully) a hot anime girl
Then I'll create the SSSS+++ Tier for her


Also Simon is not anime : cryingsharena:

 

[Deleted member]

Wait until they (hopefully) a hot anime girl
Then I'll create the SSSS+++ Tier for her


Also Simon is not anime : cryingsharena:

Why is everyone so thirsty?

 

[Noipoi]

Smh y’all sleepin on Banjo

Just added a whole buncha names to my black list

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I sleep:

Yeah I agree with you, was a little too boring for my tastes

Now on the other hand...

 

[Deleted member]

Smh y’all sleepin on Banjo

Just added a whole buncha names to my black list

He deserves respect.

 

[staindgrey]

Decided to dust off the old newcomer tier list and share it around:

Spoiler

View attachment 229334

Hopefully Hero and Banjo being here tip people off that this isn't meant to be competitive; it's just a quick dive into who I was excited for the most and least among this class of newcomers, and it's going to be hilariously hard for me to try and find someone that can top Joker from these next two slots.

EDIT: If anyone wants to do their own take on this, I've got the template here:

Spoiler

View attachment 229336

It's a nice template, but I'm at work and I'm not gonna try and sneak Photoshop work in.

S)
A)
B)
C)
D)

 

[Noipoi]

Anyway I taught my little cousin the Banjo Kazooie theme song

 

[Mythra]

Reminder that MCorrin isn't real

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway I taught my little cousin the Banjo Kazooie theme song

Show us her playing it or I’ll cry. /s

But jokes aside, that’s so sweeeeeet. ;w;

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder that MCorrin isn't real

Ah yes, my favourite fast-food restaurant, McCorrin.

 

[TheMightyP]

Yeah I agree with you, was a little too boring for my tastes

now on the other hand...

Actually, yeah, Female Corrin gets a boost because Male Corrin's design is just ew.

 

[Iridium]

I still have a grudge and desire to start a crusade against Isabelle. That's just how I am now.

Yeah I agree with you, was a little too boring for my tastes

Now on the other hand...

I used to trust you.

 

[staindgrey]

DAMMIT.

I missed when my channel reached 6969 subscribers.

I was gonna screen cap it and get a few likes for sure.

 

[Noipoi]

Show us him playing it or I’ll cry. /s

But jokes aside, that’s so sweeeeeet. ;w;

She’s a she you plebeian

 

[TheMightyP]

I still have a grudge and desire to start a crusade against Isabelle. That's just how I am now.

I will not let this stand, Isabelle mains rise up.

C'mon, where are the three of you?

 

[Opossum]

Smh y’all sleepin on Banjo

Just added a whole buncha names to my black list

If it's any consolation "the Banjo-Kazooie song list" would be right under Chrom for me if it counted as a character.