So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[dettadeus]

Lol, I get the feel that not even the competitive brawl scene likes the changes from melee. I look forward to playing with all of you fine gentlemen when pm is finished and everybody drops brawl like a bad habit.

if you hate brawl so much why are you even lurking the brawl boards

 

[Sieguest]

The same reason someone who hates football watches a football game. We all get the inkling to understand how in the world someone could ever enjoy *insert hated activity/object here*.
OR
Could just be bored, I get into things I don't like when I'm bored. =/

 

[Vkrm]

I find that the best way to see if an idea is right is to have a discussion with people who hold an opposing view. Besides if I were to have posted stuff like this in any melee thread everybody would agreed with me, and my views on the matter would have been artificially reinforced. Can you think of a better place for me to find people who could actually do a good job of defending competitive brawl?

 

[dettadeus]

Last time I checked the brawl/melee crap ended in like, 2009.

If you don't like the game, just don't play it. I don't see what the big deal is about trying to prove one game is "better" than the other.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I don't see how lack of combos = bad game though. I like the thinking in Brawl, it normally allows for the better player to win since we have to win more neutral game situations.

 

[Vkrm]

Depends on your definition better. Do you mean gayer? When combos are a part of they add a ton of depth. It's no longer about picking the move deals the most damage. some moves chain into others better and in smash bros percent and di add even more layers. In brawl I'll just chaingrab to the edge or pull out some gay lock because that yields more percent. It's not like i can combo into a kill move in brawl so there's like no decision making, the right choices are obvious in brawl.

 

[Hylian]

I find that the best way to see if an idea is right is to have a discussion with people who hold an opposing view. Besides if I were to have posted stuff like this in any melee thread everybody would agreed with me, and my views on the matter would have been artificially reinforced. Can you think of a better place for me to find people who could actually do a good job of defending competitive brawl?

I mean, what are you trying to prove? That melee is a better game? Most people acknowledge that. That doesn't mean brawl isn't competitive. It has consistent results and obvious layers of skill depth. You can practice and better yourself playing and it has a low tech skill threshhold so it's easier to get into than most fighters.

What is their to defend? You hating brawl isn't going to make people stop playing it, and does nothing in fact but make brawl players resent and dislike melee players. I know several brawl players who have told me they would like to get into melee but dislike the community, gee I wonder where that came from? The sad part is a lot of melee players don't realize they are hindering the potential growth of their game.

Brawl and Melee don't share much in common when it comes to mechanics, it would be easier to compare brawl to SF4 than melee. Melee doesn't really compare to many games, maybe blazblue or something.

Edit: It's also painfully clear that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to top level brawl play as you are just picking at straws.

 

[Vkrm]

Edit: It's also painfully clear that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to top level brawl play as you are just picking at straws.

If my views on brawl are wrong then correct them. You tell me I'm wrong and thats it. You don't say anything about why I'm wrong so natural misinformation on brawl competitive structure spreads...

 

[SSBBDaisy]

we should all get on basic brawl on wifi and have a cg party. Don't be a hoe.

 

[Hylian]

If my views on brawl are wrong then correct them. You tell me I'm wrong and thats it. You don't say anything about why I'm wrong so natural misinformation on brawl competitive structure spreads...

There's no point in doing that until you address the first half of my post.

 

[Vkrm]

Too much lag. Gives me great pain in my brain case.

 

[Vkrm]

Grrrrrr double posts!!!I think brawls low tech requirement works against it alot of the time. Lower skill gaps and all this. Pros are harder to distinguish from people who just picked up the game. That's why I think a lot of really talented brawl players retire long before they've built what could be considered an actual competitive career. Let me set up a hypothitical situation. Let's say tomorrow you decide that you really want to own a really swanky car, a Lamborghini for arguments sake. Okay so you start to pinch every penny. You work hard dawn till dusk to ensure you can afford to buy this car in the next ten years so that you are still young enough to enjoy it. That means you gotta get a second job and really bust your ***. So that's what you do, and eventually you finally have enough. It took you nearly a decade but that's not really gonna matter once you've finally achieved your goal. So you to the dealership, buy that **** in cash and leave. At this point most people would walking on sunshine, well, **** walking, there's a perfectly car for ya. After all that you start pull into drive way and notice something suspicious. Another lambo, brand spanking new, parked in the garage. About a week earlier your girlfriend, wife, husband, or partner or whatever entered you in a contest, you won, and the prize is the same car that took ten years for you to get is just sitting there. For free. Now there's really no point in keeping both, itll cost more to maintain two cars and you'll be taxed differently so the obvious choice would be to sell one. But Which one? I think most of us would sell the one we won in the raffle isn't that right? but why? Technically the one you drove home is worth a little bit less but you keep it. The reason why is because that one is really yours, that's the one you earned. Human beings naturally value what we invest in. I think that's why brawlers quit at a much higher frequency than melee players do. It didnt really require much for them to get where they at so they find it easy to turn their backs on it, brawl I mean.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Why am I subscribed to this thread again? Like..I love Melee and Brawl, but god damn it Melee kids just look like *******es so ****ing often that it is hard to respect the community as a whole.

 

[Hylian]

Grrrrrr double posts!!!I think brawls low tech requirement works against it alot of the time. Lower skill gaps and all this. Pros are harder to distinguish from people who just picked up the game. That's why I think a lot of really talented brawl players retire long before they've built what could be considered an actual competitive career. Let me set up a hypothitical situation. Let's say tomorrow you decide that you really want to own a really swanky car, a Lamborghini for arguments sake. Okay so you start to pinch every penny. You work hard dawn till dusk to ensure you can afford to buy this car in the next ten years so that you are still young enough to enjoy it. That means you gotta get a second job and really bust your ***. So that's what you do, and eventually you finally have enough. It took you nearly a decade but that's not really gonna matter once you've finally achieved your goal. So you to the dealership, buy that **** in cash and leave. At this point most people would walking on sunshine, well, **** walking, there's a perfectly car for ya. After all that you start pull into drive way and notice something suspicious. Another lambo, brand spanking new, parked in the garage. About a week earlier your girlfriend, wife, husband, or partner or whatever entered you in a contest, you won, and the prize is the same car that took ten years for you to get is just sitting there. For free. Now there's really no point in keeping both, itll cost more to maintain two cars and you'll be taxed differently so the obvious choice would be to sell one. But Which one? I think most of us would sell the one we won in the raffle isn't that right? but why? Technically the one you drove home is worth a little bit less but you keep it. The reason why is because that one is really yours, that's the one you earned. Human beings naturally value what we invest in. I think that's why brawlers quit at a much higher frequency than melee players do. It didnt really require much for them to get where they at so they find it easy to turn their backs on it, brawl I mean.

You literally just pulled all of this out of your ***. More brawl players quit than melee players? Where are you getting that from? Pro's are harder to distinguish from noobs? LOL WHAT? It's very very very easy to distinguish bads/midlevel/semi-pro/pro players...if you actually play the game and know what you are watching.

Doesn't require much for them to get where they are? You seriously think tech skill is everything? You have no idea what you are talking about in regards to brawl and you honestly just make the melee community look bad. You would rather bash a games community(for no good reason..at all) than promote your game and bolster/strengthen your own community.


It's hard to even argue with you when you just throw out made up facts out of clear bias. I've been going to melee tournaments since 2003 and love the game. I've been going to brawl tournaments since the game came out, and also love the game. I can switch between them easily because I look at them as different games. I'm familiar with high level play in both and have made money in both. You act as if brawl players have no skill, which is funny because brawl players are doing quite well in project m from what I'm seeing and I know plenty that don't want to play melee just because people like you.

 

[Vkrm]

I've **** on every brawl player I've ever played in pm.... Except kiraflax and K9.... Sets were hella gay.... Whatever, I don't care. (mad salty)
Oh for real? People like me make it hard to get into melee? That's crap because teaching guys who talk a lot of **** a lesson lesson is like the best feel in the world. I guess it's important for me to say if you are a brawl player who is considering getting into melee, I promise the guys you meet are guaranteed to way more friendly then I must seem. Also when did I say brawl players suck? There must be like two or three posts on the last page that in which you see I go out of my to say that I think esam's a damn good player. I do think he's wasting time on a game that is completely indifferent when it comes to player skill, and there's sooooo much wasted potential that it's hard not to be upset. Hylians last post seems to an argument from authority. "I make money from smash! I've been around since 03! You don't what you're talking about when you talk about brawl!" and so on. I really wish he'd tell me what was wrong with what I said instead of trying to hook me up with a verbal crucifixion. Seem a bit excessive to try and embarrass a complete stranger over the Internet. To be real, its not behavior fitting an admin. Esam on the other hand is well within his rights when acting like an idiot by deciding that one guy acting like a douche would some how turn him off to the whole melee crowd. But that's because he's only representing himself.

 

[| Big D |]

That was quite a mouthful, but I bet you are used to that sort of thing

 

[Vkrm]

You hinting at my undisclosed sexual preference may or may not be justified. This is completely unrelated but I'm wondering big d, did you play competitive street fighter for a bit? I think I met you at tourney in south bend IN. We played Rufus mirrors for bit, talked about smash, and then got gyros. Sound familiar?

 

[| Big D |]

There's another Big D on the East Coast, it might have been him.

 

[-LzR-]

I like it when people always whine about Brawls locks and chaingrabs when Melee has like twice as many of them. Sure, they are escapable, but they still seem to hurt a lot. I don't consider techskill a definition of a players skill. Techskill is something everyone good should have mastered. It's just pressing buttons. When and how you do that is what makes you good. Doesn't matter how good your Lcancels or shinecombos are if you don't know what you are doing.
And I like both games, I just greatly prefer Brawl because it's just what I want from a game like this.

And Project M is worse than both Brawl and Melee. It's just pointless imo because it doesn't really feel like Melee at all and it still looks like Brawl and everything. And I don't like the new characters designs either. Should have just kept their Brawl movesets and converted them more into meleeish.

/back to lurking because I enjoy this

 

[Vkrm]

The fact that chains like that are escapable is a big deal isn't it?
Lzr, I'll bet youre a good guy, and if we are ever at a tourney I'm down to play friendlies in brawl or melee or ****ing scrabble or whatever. But please stop listening to what brawl players have to say about game that they themselves don't play. Inb4 "well why the hell should he listen to you Vkrm!"

 

[-LzR-]

Well it's not like I have credibility to say anything, being probably average in both games, but it's just that neither side ever has good arguments against the other side. Melee vs Brawl is dumb anyways. We are both smash games, we need each other to maintain this community for another 10 years and stuff. And the fact that the chaingrabs are escapable is not such a big deal because their escape attempts are easy to cover with another grab or repeat and it's still a crappy position to be in. Gladly I play Puff so I don't have to deal with that and instead choose to die early. And I don't think chaingrabs and locks are even bad. I don't think they should be banned, nerfed or anything. Just keep the 300% something limit to stop the stalling.

 

[Sieguest]

Arguing Brawl vs. Melee is like arguing American culture vs. English culture (note you could replace "American" and "English" with any given cultures). Sure each must adhere to a basic framework of what makes them a fighter (think I'll just narrow it to the case of a smash game to be safe), but what makes one better than the other comes down to what you believe is valuable. Slow v. Fast, "Hit = death/near death v. Taking nickels and dimes and many other extremes both sides boast as making the game more valuable than the other.

To keep my post from getting any longer, if you truly believe you can objectively prove that one game is better than another, then stop fooling yourself.

 

[Strong Badam]

rubberbandman is a fraud



EDIT: this vkrm guy is either terrible at posting or a troll. pay him no mind, most of us aren't like this. if any of you are interested in actually debating melee vs. brawl, I'd be interested. it's fun.

EDIT2: The other Big D is actually from the Midwest.

 

[Sieguest]

rubberbandman is a fraud

Best thing I've read all day.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Y'know, I was writing this long *** post, but decided not to because to Vkrm I'm just going to look stupid since I'm an idiot who is "wasting my talent" in Brawl.

Just let me say this, you aren't the only one who talks like this about Brawl. I have seen DOZENS AND DOZENS AND HUNDREDS of people bash Brawl like you do, which is ****ing ********. You don't see SF3A players going SF4 SUCKS **** THAT GAME and refuse to play it because it's different.

 

[Ayce God]

^

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Y'know, I was writing this long *** post, but decided not to because to Vkrm I'm just going to look stupid since I'm an idiot who is "wasting my talent" in Brawl.

Just let me say this, you aren't the only one who talks like this about Brawl. I have seen DOZENS AND DOZENS AND HUNDREDS of people bash Brawl like you do, which is ****ing ********. You don't see SF3A players going SF4 SUCKS **** THAT GAME and refuse to play it because it's different.

Its true. Most people talk bad about Brawl at my school and I rarely to never get to play it with anyone at my school.

Everybody talks about guaranteed **** in brawl (they probably say this cause of ) when in melee, every character has there own guaranteed ****.

Brawl is a good game and imo is a better game than Melee. I love both Brawl and Melee. I just enjoy brawl more.

 

[Sieguest]

So everyone is resolute in their opinion? GREAT! Now let's talk about throwing more ice blocks and less controllers.

 

[GOofyGV]

So many people hate brawl which is normal cuze they are obviously not cool enough to play it =3

 

[DeLux]

So everyone is resolute in their opinion? GREAT! Now let's talk about throwing more ice blocks and less controllers.

Ice Shot* not Ice Block

 

[Vkrm]

Out of both sf aplha 3 and sf 4, niether of those games have random tripping. You actually do see alot of sf3ts players criticise street fighter 4 because of a lot risk vs reward situations. You get so much for that lucky reversal dp fadc ultra, and it's not hard at all. Also I think theres a lot luck involved in sf because a different person has won evo for like the last three years.

 

[-LzR-]

@I'm interested about a good melee vs brawl debate.
Played Melee today after a break and it was much more fun than I remembered.

 

[Vkrm]

I actually played brawl for first time in a long time today, by accident though. I planned to show a good friend of mine who plays marvel what pm is like, just to see what he thought. I misplaced my SD card so we played brawl till we got bored, then I remembered my card was in my car. It's still really gay, brawl that is. My friend was way more forgiving with his assessment. Something he said really just resonated with me. He said the characters in brawl are not suited to their environment. The changes the devs made weren't planned out and they didnt think about how not being to dash dance or di moves that don't send you into a tumble would affect the game, casual or otherwise. I dont exactally recall where the pmbr said this but they did talk about how a good bit of the code in brawl that caused problems were quick patches often making things more complex and warranting further patching down the road. It's one big mess that he pmbr had to sort out. It's like that because sakurai goal with brawl was not make a game that was easy to learn and hard to master, he wasn't trying to make a game that could be considered more fair either. He was trying to sabotage competitive play, and he was on the right track as far as that goal is concerned. I dont think that's how sakurai wanted things to turn out. it's more likely nintendo approached him during the development and told to simplify after he had already a made portion of the game. That would explain why brawl is so jumbled up from a coders perspective.... My friend really likes pm buy the way.

 

[Rubberbandman]

rubberbandman is a fraud



EDIT: this vkrm guy is either terrible at posting or a troll. pay him no mind, most of us aren't like this. if any of you are interested in actually debating melee vs. brawl, I'd be interested. it's fun.

EDIT2: The other Big D is actually from the Midwest.

<3 Strong Bad

I don't know why you guys are still arguing about the game so heavily; If you have fun with Brawl, have fun with it. Same goes for Melee. We shouldn't be so worried about the bad characteristics of each others games and try to bring them down, just respect each others gameplay because they both take skill and thought to execute at a high level.

Discussion over. Next.

 

[Sieguest]

Ice Shot* not Ice Block

Let me make my references to the past in peace!

<3 Strong Bad

I don't know why you guys are still arguing about the game so heavily; If you have fun with Brawl, have fun with it. Same goes for Melee. We shouldn't be so worried about the bad characteristics of each others games and try to bring them down, just respect each others gameplay because they both take skill and thought to execute at a high level.

Discussion over. Next.

inb4discussioncontinues

Calling it. The track record here is that there will be someone to keep the drive going for whatever reason.

 

[DeLux]

I'm glad Guest is back :D

 

[Sieguest]

I'm finally managing the divide between school stuff and smash. Bookworm time management ftw. Timing was spot on to catch this lovely -exchange of ideas-.

 

[Vkrm]

I think melee vs brawl debates offer good information on what make games fun, what makes them competitive, and on how games can build really strong friendships. At this point though they have become routine.

Situation 1

Vkrm: "I think melee is an all around better game than brawl in like every way."

Random brawl dude: "Agreed! I don't know what they were thinking, lol. Ill keep playing brawl though, that's whats popular In my reigon"

Vkrm: "brawl sucks..."

Random brawl guy: "Yes, yes it does, when you campare it to melee."

Vkrm: "we agree?"

Random brawl guy:" it seems so...."

Vkrm:".....gg"

Random brawl guy: "likewise."

Situation 2

Vkrm:" I think melee takes way more strategic thinking than brawl"

Random brawl guy 2: "whatever troll, brawl vs melee was a thing in 2009 now its not, play the game you like."

Vkrm: "why is it that brawl players don't like to argue about their game? Is the reason they don't allow brawl vs melee debates is because they don't like losing it?"

Rbg2:....(throws wine glass) "But enough talk! Have at you!"

Vkrm: "uhhh... Wait, what? Im sorry i just thought that I could...

Hylian: "you have been given an infraction point."

Random brawl guy2: "gg scrub"

Vkrm:"......likewise.."

 

[Sieguest]

I like how both of those situations either make you the hero or the victim. Seems a tad one-sided if you ask me. If you really did receive an infraction throughout your posting here though then please accept my apology for finding it comical.

 

[Vkrm]

Hero vs victim would be a false dichotomy, if i were any were any other part of the scenario it would be not really be my story to tell. Also I was very clearly the villain in scene 1. If you can take pleasure in me being infracted, that's cool, atleast something good came out of because it didn't actually teach me anything. Chances are i found it funnier than you ever could. Also this whole bit was a hypothetical, I did receive an infraction but hylian was just doing his job.