So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[| Big D |]

I should note that it has to be dtilt or ftilt.

Some tourneys ban it (notably Apex). I don't know enough about competitive melee to have a stance however.

 

[Hylian]

You can wobble with jab as well.

 

[Luco]

You can wobble with jab as well.

I still have no idea why it's called that. Just makes me think of this. o.O

 

[Hylian]

I still have no idea why it's called that. Just makes me think of this. o.O

It's called that because Wobbles(A top melee Ic main) discovered it and/or made it popular.

 

[Luco]

It's called that because Wobbles(A top melee Ic main) discovered it and/or made it popular.

Ohhh! Okay that makes a lot more sense to me. =)

 

[-LzR-]

I think Finland has made wobbling legal some time ago, but not sure. I just think ICs could be a great character in Melee as Puff is really not my style and with ICs I could do technical stuff.

 

[TheSaintKai]

I played my first show in almost a year with an old band tonight, oh my God I've forgotten how much I love being on stage.

 

[Roller]

Anyone who says wobbling is more difficult than the brawl cg is a moron. The Melee ICs do however have a ton of other technical **** in that game, and you could definitely make they argument they are more difficult to play overall.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Nana is also a bergillion times more ********, so they definitely have it harder.

 

[Hylian]

Melee IC chaingrabs are fairly easy if you already have melee tech skill. I can do them without practice(like..without even learning how to do them, I just look at a video and try them after). The timing is a lot easier, it's just knowing how to follow DI/read nana that is harder.

 

[Luigisama]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L56iNiEmRcw&feature=g-u-u

The story of goldenyoshiking

 

[Sieguest]

After fighting tons of papers, projects and my own self, I've finally made my way back here. Hi peeps.

 

[GimR]

b-throw with popo, d-throw with Nana, as nana slides over back throw with popo, have nana footstool. Ice block with Popo, charge Usmash with Nana. Double jump over opponent with Popo, release Nana usmash during the force stand up, as soon as the Usmash hits cancel it with Popo Up-B(Nana will teleport)

you just combo'd Usmash into Belay. it kills small characters at like 120

 

[| Big D |]

^ Omg so doing that next tourney.

 

[dettadeus]

brb practicing

 

[Hylian]

b-throw with popo, d-throw with Nana, as nana slides over back throw with popo, have nana footstool. Ice block with Popo, charge Usmash with Nana. Double jump over opponent with Popo, release Nana usmash during the force stand up, as soon as the Usmash hits cancel it with Popo Up-B(Nana will teleport)

you just combo'd Usmash into Belay. it kills small characters at like 120

On smaller characters like Kirby/Olimar you can just grab release -> Belay and it combos.

 

[Vkrm]

brb practicing

I doubt there's anything in brawl that warrants practice.

 

[dettadeus]

i don't think you understand what character board you just walked into

 

[Vkrm]

I don't think I like you mister

 

[dettadeus]

am...

am i supposed to care or something?

 

[Vkrm]

i don't think you understand what character board you just walked into

This as good a place as any to discuss how easy mode the ice grabbers are.

 

[dettadeus]

This as good a place as any to discuss how easy mode the ice grabbers are.

can't tell if troll

or just scrub

 

[Vkrm]

am...

am i supposed to care or something?

Do you really mean to say you don't care about what a complete stranger that you will probably never meet has to say about you? Now that's no way to live... It's also common knowledge how brain dead the climbers are. There's freaking two of them. Just mash buttons, it's that easy.

 

[dettadeus]

Do you really mean to say you don't care about what a complete stranger that you will probably never meet has to say about you? Now that's no way to live... It's also common knowledge how brain dead the climbers are. There's freaking two of them. Just mash buttons, it's that easy.

tell me when that starts working for you, mr. melee elitist

 

[Hylian]

Stop trolling please.

 

[Vkrm]

Sure thing boss. @dettaseus are you really gonna pretend that brawl matches are more little than who has better muscle memory?

 

[dettadeus]

Muscle memory requires practice.

And why should I pretend when it's true? You could say Melee is even more pure muscle memory than Brawl because of how many guaranteed combos there are.

95% of spacies techskill = muscle memory.

 

[Vkrm]

Hold your horses. Brawl combos are way more guaranteed and predictable with how limited di is. There's non tumble di, and you can't di in as many directions since this game was made to work on dpad. Your di is either stuck to one the cardinal directions or their diagonals. Also you can't subtle di, if you di slightly to the right the game just assumes that you want to di all the way to the right. Brawl has way more locks and chaingrabs then melee ever did, even on it's gayest day melee is still more action based. That means it favors the players who adapt. Not the douche who stalls the best. You can try all kinds of things to try and convince yourself that the time you spent mastering brawl was not a complete wast of time, except degrading melee to make it seem both games are on the same level, people don't like that kind of thing.

 

[| Big D |]

What does Vkrm stand for?

 

[Vkrm]

My names Vikram. In ssbm you can only have 4 letters in the tags and picked the ones I thought were important lol.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Melee is more about muscle memory than Brawl is. In Melee, one hit leads to 5 more if YOU don't mess up regardless of what your opponent does considering there are options REGARDLESS of what way they DI.

In brawl, at least with most characters, you have to fight for positioning pretty much every second of every game. One hit leads to NOTHING except positional advantage, except in ICs case.

Brawl = slow paced and thinking
Melee = fast paced and muscle memory and OH GOD I ****ED UP MY SPACING ONCE NOW I DIED

There is a lot less room for error in Melee, but in Brawl the better player will more often win. Reason behind this is that there are a bunch more neutral game fights, and the better player often comes out ahead in these situations. In Melee, one neutral game fight can lead to death, so there are many fewer situations like it, leading to some fluke games.

 

[-LzR-]

Totally agree with Esam. I think exactly the same. Not that Melee is bad, it's still great.

 

[Vkrm]

I think it's actually the opposite. The follow ups (for certain characters) are pretty much given since you just pull out one move after another and you dont have to lcancel. Everybody who says that brawls flow results in more mental battles between players is wrong, all the chess takes place before the combo even starts. I don't doubt that the punishes in melee are a good bit stiffer, but because of how flexable melee di is you can save yourself. I see it like this, once the combo starts, you must of lost the frst round of the mental battle and you ought to be at a disadvantage. Brawlers have no idea how trapped the characters as far as mobility goes. I think it's really important for me to say Esam is an amazing player and I definitely respect him, but I do think he's wrong about melee being based on routine muscle memory and on brawl being the one that favors smarter/more skilled players.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

There is obviously a good deal of thinking in Melee too, it isn't like it is super free, otherwise there would be no distinction between the good and the great. There is a LOT of thinking in Melee, but ONCE you get the hit, it is relative auto-pilot. In brawl, there are so few guaranteed follow-ups that you pretty much have to constantly be thinking, even as you are hitting your opponent. You have to think of what to do immediately after the hit to get the best stage positioning, as well as any potential reads that could allow you to get a 2nd hit depending on how they DI (if they DI away GL on getting a follow-up).

In melee, there are SO MANY MOVEMENT OPTIONS that it is really REALLY hard to get that first hit because you have to end up committing to SOMETHING, but a dash dance could lead to you getting punished, and the punishes are "ohgodwhy" in melee for a lot of characters. The extra movement options and the AMAZING flow of the game really make a huge difference in terms of high and top level play.

One thing that also sets Melee apart from Brawl, not in a good or bad way, is shield pressure. In Brawl you can pretty much punish anything you have on shield, which is why people just don't go in since they will get punished for free. In Melee, you hit somebody's shield with certain characters and you can just go off forever until it breaks, it pokes, or they try to roll in which case your STUPIDLY FAST CHARACTERS can just get to them and start a combo.

<3 Melee and Brawl, but PM is where it's at.

 

[Vkrm]

I wouldn't mind seeing you and axe playing a pika ditto in pm, **** would be bananas. I don't think anyone doubts that melee is a harder game to play physically, what I want to say that with all the technical nuances it also makes it a tougher strategic game. When it comes to the combo game I think that they are both pretty much the same with melee being a bit tougher with l canceling. You putting forth that because the game has less guaranteed follow ups, somehow that makes the combos you choose a more critical choice or a more difficult matter doesnt make sense, atleast to me. I also really want to say that if I playing melee, choosing fox, getting chaingrabbed by Marth or playing brawl getting chaingrabbed by deedeedee, I fancy my chances in the melee scenario. I'd have way more chances to escape. If I did get away it would because I di'ed properly and on the flipside if I get gimped I'm the dude to blame. It's so much better than having the obnoxious game engine step and get me out of the combo. It like the game is saying, "oh no, a combo! We have to put a stop to this before it starts to become fun!"

 

[-LzR-]

You are assuming Fox needs anything except techskill

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Comboing is obviously harder in Melee because there are no combos in Brawl -_-

 

[Sieguest]

Don't be silly, of course there are combos in Brawl.
L+R+A+Start

 

[TheSaintKai]

Don't be silly, of course there are combos in Brawl.
L+R+A+Start

Siggin it.

 

[Vkrm]

The two previous posts give me the feel that not even the competitive brawl scene likes the changes from melee. I look forward to playing with all of you fine gentlemen when pm is finished and everybody drops brawl like a bad habit. I honestly think the top brawlers should translate smoothly into pm. Melee physics make the game more skillful, but that's not really a problem for them because they have already built up the skills needed for a less forgiving game. The mid and low level players are the ones who will resist pm becoming THE next competitive smash, but even then I doubt they have the passion to do what the melee scene has. Once brawl is the old game I doubt anyone would actually want go back to it like meleers did.