So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[2-DJeff]

xD No, but I mean... Who stay ICs when a player counterpicks a gay stage?

i do unless its against mk at times

 

[Myollnir]

Ok, but we were talking about MetaKnight.

 

[2-DJeff]

-2: :
-1
0:
1:
2:
3:
4:

my view on MUs
no negativity if your going to respond

 

[Myollnir]

I think there are 2 TL in your list

My list :

-2 :
-1 :
±0 :
+1 :
+2 :
+3 :
+4 :

 

[2-DJeff]

I think there are 2 TL in your list

lol my bad fixed xD

 

[Teh Future]

i was gonna do matchups imo but i cant open the box to figure out the smilies loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Smoom77]

Just quote their post and move them around >_>

But I sorta agree with Myo's list. I just don't know if Snake is -2 IMO. And ZSS isn't that easy for me, and Wario is easier than -1. Just for me.

 

[Teh Future]

but i already tried that and it didnt work last time

D===

smooooooooooom=magcial

idk what these numbers mean lol but w/e

-2 :
-1 :
±0 :
+1 :
+2 :
+3 :

 

[Myollnir]

Hmm... I don't know if Wario easier than -1.
He has an insane spacing so he can avoid getting grabbed easily.
However, I won a bracket match against Glutonny without knowing the MU, so maybe it's Even.

 

[Teh Future]

wario players play impaitently which they really can't afford to do vs ics.

if wario plays it right he definitely wins

 

[Teh Future]

btw snake/diddy arent really that bad but i think they are ics 2 worst matchups

and yes olimar beats every character including ics

 

[Myollnir]

@Future : Some of your choices surprised me :
- DDK
- Wolf
- DDD
- Fox
+ I think MK - ICs is not even.

 

[Teh Future]

- DK (idk if you meant another character lol): idk why this would be surprising. ics can grab him but he has a lot of good tools:
-all his special attacks
-kills at.... lol
-if he doesn't get grabbed lives forever

- Wolf: LOL i hate this character so maybe i have bias. wolf teleports across the map whenever he jumps with ******** air speed that makes no sense. he seperates easily and kills nana + popo easily once he hits them with anything. ics grab him whenever he does something dum but if you drop grabs then you loose instantly against a good wolf pretty much. even w/ grabs if they are spacing stuff right its sooo hard to hit them and you die too easily.

- DDD: bthrow > bair > **** popo

- Fox: if fox camps he can do decently against them. idk why people think he is bad against them lol once he looses the lead it is difficult but he gets it at first w/ lasers and his combos are ********. he can also CAN get gimps w/ his quick jumps to cover your recovery above and he can shine spike also for ics

+ I think MK - ICs is not even: eh i always go back and forth shield moar loooooooooool

 

[Myollnir]

I meant DiddyKong

I understand you if you hate Wolf, your view on this matchup may be subjective.
You can grab DDD at almost any time. When DDD grabs you, you can jab/smash with Nana/Popo. But yeah, Bair is one of his best tools in this MU.
I think pivot grab > all fox moves (I'm not sure but I know that pivot grab ***** against Fox).

 

[TheSaintKai]

Not that I'm a source or anything, but my two cents:

-1 :
±0 :
+1 :
+2 :
+3 :
+4 :

I don't know enough about , , , , , , , , , , or to give any sort of opinion about them, so I decided against it.

I'm a little biased against DK and R.O.B. because I've had trouble with them in the past, so forgive those.

 

[Blissard]

-1 :

ICs are quite hard for Olimar to handle, and counterpicks are vital in this MU (Olimar abuses platforms really well). Most of Oli's attacks can't get through Blizzard Wall cause Pikmin have hurtboxes Oli CAN pivot grab through the Blizzard Wall, but more likely he'll run under and usmash. Oli's throws are still effective to an extent, mostly cause some of his dthrows have area effects. If the ICs are seperated, Oli will likely charge a dsmash and Nana will run straight into it. But really, IC's have an advantage with Ice Blocks and Blizzard Wall. Probably +1 for ICs.

 

[Hylian]

Guess I'll post mine lol:

-2:
-1:
±0:
+1:
+2:
+3:
+4:

 

[TheSaintKai]

-2:

Why do you think Lucario is this bad?
As a generality, I've found it easy to grab Lucarios, and I've faced Lee Martin. Granted, it WAS friendlies.
I've always thought that Lucario gains a lot from the aura factor, and since we have a 0-death, that kind of eliminates that.
Our goal in the air is to get into a horizontal war with him; he can't beat retreating f-air, and our b-air outranges both his b-air and f-air.
He doesn't have a ridiculously strong move with which to kill Nana when we're separated.
And he can't beat us with AS, because Ice Block beats it.
I'm just not seeing where he has a definite advantage.

 

[Smoom77]

What makes Lucario so hard for you?

 

[Reyney]

i was messing around in training mode and discovered a desynch ive never seen before.
could be already known but im posting anyway just to make sure.

how it works:
downtilt > buffer turnaround downtilt > anything (iceblock for example)

dunno if its useful, but it seems pretty fast and i could imagine it being a nice ledgetrap.
for example: wait till their invicibility ends and dtilt facing the ledge.
they will either get hit by dtilt or be rolling straight into desynched blizzard/iceblock.
if they ledgejump you can still uair with other climber and grab out of ledgedrop jump airdodge, respectively.
dunno about getupattack though.

*edit if its not known yet i call it the rey desynch LOL

 

[Smoom77]

I believe you can desync simply out of a Dtilt.

 

[Reyney]

uh makes sense..
the 2. dtilt i buffered after turnaround is already desynched, so you could just input a special as well..

*edit
jup, just tried it and you can desynch directly after dtilt,too :/

desynching directly means nana does the special and desynching after the buffered turnaround dtilt means popo does the special.

anywayz why isnt this used ? :o
its sooo easy and fast

 

[Smoom77]

it's not as fast as multiple others. pivot, SND, RID. Just look in the desync guide (it's stickied)

 

[Reyney]

uhhm yeah i know there are faster ones but i still thought of that ledgetrap thing.
it covers a lot of options, is easy to perform, and can lead to a grab.

i think ppl would only start thinking about it if they saw it in a video, as always ^^
id put some stuff up but im not able to record

thx for your answers anyway

 

[Sieguest]

The dtilt desync actually is faster than the pivot and RID if I'm thinking right.

Edit: Just chatted with someone and the RID and Pivot are faster than the dtilt desync by 8 frames. Given that though, I wouldn't discount the dtilt desync. The dtilt desync is definitely a lot more of a neutral desync spacing wise than the RID or the Pivot. You're also desyncing with a hitbox so if you're using dtilt like you normally would against an opponent, this desync gives you some possible options depending on what your opponent does.

As to just using it just to desync, the turnaround or SND is a better choice if you still want to keep the neutral spacing.

 

[Smoom77]

When I said faster, I meant more useful, generally.

 

[Sieguest]

See above edit.

 

[Teh Future]

ICs are quite hard for Olimar to handle, and counterpicks are vital in this MU (Olimar abuses platforms really well). Most of Oli's attacks can't get through Blizzard Wall cause Pikmin have hurtboxes Oli CAN pivot grab through the Blizzard Wall, but more likely he'll run under and usmash. Oli's throws are still effective to an extent, mostly cause some of his dthrows have area effects. If the ICs are seperated, Oli will likely charge a dsmash and Nana will run straight into it. But really, IC's have an advantage with Ice Blocks and Blizzard Wall. Probably +1 for ICs.

no ur stupid

 

[2-DJeff]

yea dude IC wrecks olimar hard core

 

[ch33s3]

ICs beat Oli, but I share your undying hatred for the little *******, Future.

 

[Hylian]

Something fun for you guys:

You can desynch by crouching.

 

[Smoom77]

You can desync when landing on the ground from the air.

 

[ch33s3]

You can desynch after hitting your opponent.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

You can desynch after getting hit by your opponent.

 

[Teh Future]

olimar ***** ics

 

[Vex Kasrani]

No, not at all.

 

[Blissard]

The Ice Climbers have the unique ability to climb ice using hammers.

 

[Smoom77]

The Ice Climbers have the unique ability to climb hammers using ice.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I'm WAY behind on discussion. But I wanna say my last words on the hylian thing, like I said he CAN be wrong, but he's way most expierienced. I dunno but other people but in ICs I'd take Hylians word over Allys

 

[Roller]

I'm WAY behind on discussion. But I wanna say my last words on the hylian thing, like I said he CAN be wrong, but he's way most expierienced. I dunno but other people but in ICs I'd take Hylians word over Allys

I take Lain's word over everyone's.