smooth lander- the one custom equipment that should be legal

[StriCNYN3]

Fox's front air attack in particular just seems to be dangerous to use offstage because it lasts a long time and Fox's falling speed is very high due to the Heavy Gravity.

It's just a matter of using it properly in certain stages. Small stages it's prob best not to fast fall with it.
For me in particular, I fast fall to cancel the first few hitboxes of Fox's Fair near a ledge to get the spike effect. So there's other uses for that move.

I can't really add much since I literally just found out about this stuff like 3 days ago, but I noticed aerials are dangerous to use off stage if you're trying to go at this mode like vSSB4 (Well as far as I know when practicing with Fox and Greninja). You can't spam them like vSSB4 let's you. For the most part, you have to either know the size of a stage and do rising aerials off stage if you want to live while edge guarding. Some aerials can equal certain death off stage if you're even slightly under the stage though, like Greninja's Nair (especially when FF'd) and Fox's Bair (not as bad as Greninja's nair though).

 

[Guillaume1987]

As for the grind, yes its simple math, but I've gotten tons of different stats with items. Its not like there are only 2 or 3 possible numeric values for stat increases and decreases. Plus when you consider that equipment actually decreases stats more than it increases stats, it becomes kinda to have 3 items that perfectly balance each other out. Its not impossible, but it could take quite some time. I could be wrong though, of course

I have read your post and felt the need to put my two cents in. I actually subscribed just to answer this. I have found a way to effortlessly get items that cancels out each other stats. It's amiibo farming. Eveytime they participate in a fight, you they give you rewardswhen you update your amiibo.

Now, I got 8 amiibo (yeah don't judge me on that ) and I put all of them in a 8 players fight with 99 live using low gravity. I started the fight and went shopping for a couple of hours. When I got back, the fight was over and I collected the gifts.
The number of gifts you receive depend on the number of life stocks your amiibos takes while fighting. Since I got 8 amiibos, I collected reward for each amiibos. And all in all, in the spawn of 3-4 hours of shopping, I collected over 158 items, among them I had 84 pieces of equipment and 36 custom moves and the rest in trophies.

Among the 84 pieces of equipment, 5 had the smooth lander ability paired with random stats. I was able to get a few combo of items that gave me smooth lander and stat chages of +1/-1 and I got 2 perfect set of 3 equipment that give me smooth lander and 0/0/0 in stat boost.

All of this while I was away. It's still possible to get these items if you got only 2 amiibos, it would just take longer.

The only downside is that now my amiibo shields too much and rolls constantly in fights, but I can just reset them.

Hope this helps

 

[Guillaume1987]

As for the grind, yes its simple math, but I've gotten tons of different stats with items. Its not like there are only 2 or 3 possible numeric values for stat increases and decreases. Plus when you consider that equipment actually decreases stats more than it increases stats, it becomes kinda to have 3 items that perfectly balance each other out. Its not impossible, but it could take quite some time. I could be wrong though, of course

I have read your post and felt the need to put my two cents in. I actually subscribed just to answer this. I have found a way to effortlessly get items that cancels out each other stats. It's amiibo farming. Everytime they participate in a fight, you they give you rewards when you update your amiibo.

Now, I got 8 amiibo (yeah don't judge me on that ) and I put all of them in a 8 players fight with 99 live using low gravity. I started the fight and went shopping for a couple of hours. When I got back, the fight was over and I collected the gifts.
The number of gifts you receive depend on the number of life stocks your amiibos takes while fighting. Since I got 8 amiibos, I collected reward for each amiibos. And all in all, in the spawn of 3-4 hours of shopping, I collected over 158 items, among them I had 84 pieces of equipment and 36 custom moves and the rest in trophies.

Among the 84 pieces of equipment, 5 had the smooth lander ability paired with random stats. I was able to get a few combo of items that gave me smooth lander and stat chages of +1/-1 and I got 2 perfect set of 3 equipment that give me smooth lander and 0/0/0 in stat boost.

All of this while I was away. It's still possible to get these items if you got only 2 amiibos, it would just take longer.

The only downside is that now my amiibo shields too much and rolls constantly in fights, but I can just reset them.

Hope this helps

 

[Smiles]

I have read your post and felt the need to put my two cents in. I actually subscribed just to answer this. I have found a way to effortlessly get items that cancels out each other stats. It's amiibo farming. Everytime they participate in a fight, you they give you rewards when you update your amiibo.

Now, I got 8 amiibo (yeah don't judge me on that ) and I put all of them in a 8 players fight with 99 live using low gravity. I started the fight and went shopping for a couple of hours. When I got back, the fight was over and I collected the gifts.
The number of gifts you receive depend on the number of life stocks your amiibos takes while fighting. Since I got 8 amiibos, I collected reward for each amiibos. And all in all, in the spawn of 3-4 hours of shopping, I collected over 158 items, among them I had 84 pieces of equipment and 36 custom moves and the rest in trophies.

Among the 84 pieces of equipment, 5 had the smooth lander ability paired with random stats. I was able to get a few combo of items that gave me smooth lander and stat chages of +1/-1 and I got 2 perfect set of 3 equipment that give me smooth lander and 0/0/0 in stat boost.

All of this while I was away. It's still possible to get these items if you got only 2 amiibos, it would just take longer.

The only downside is that now my amiibo shields too much and rolls constantly in fights, but I can just reset them.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the info seriously!!! What were the name of the badges you customized? Huge fan of the Smooth Lander badge, heave gravity I could live without. I've also been experimenting on zeroing out the stats with Smooth Lander and Hard Breaker badges. This is the closest ive come to 0/0/0.
+19 Att
-3 Def
-12 Spd
Smooth lander
Super protection badge
Super agility badge

+16 Att
-8 Def
-16 Spd
Smooth lande
Hard Breaker
Super protection badge

Granted I've only unlocked 1 smooth lander badge so far though as I just found out about these badges a few days ago. Now if we could eventually get everyone on this train of getting 0/0/0 with SL badge. Looks like I have some amiibo equipment farming to do!!! #SmoothLander #customequipment #smash4fixed #LegalSL4tourney

 

[Galespark]

I've been playing SLHG matches for a week non-stop now and here are some things i want to share.

First, I haven't tested the Smooth Lander Bagde + the other 2 default bagdes since I got a combination of +8 +3 +3 when I first unlocked the SLB so I've been using that, which is really good, it seems that anything between 0 and 9 is the same.

Second, replacing Megaman, Sonic and DuckHunt recoveries with a custom is the definitive solution to "HG wrecks recoveries" issue.

Third, I haven't seen any balance issues by any means. In fact, I feel like its the opposite, since almost every character get kill setups and more reliable options to take out stocks. In vanilla Smash4 Diddy is a problem since he can just DThrow>UpAir you and get a incredibly reliable and easy kill, not only he doesn't take the stock as fast with that setup, but a lot of other characters have similar tools. Even bulky and slow characters like Ganondorf and Bowser have more/better options.

Fourth, Combos are actually a thing, you can be creative and go for a lot of mixups, and the amount of hitstun seems very healthy for it to not be broken.

I've been playing with CPUs and with a Cousin and the results have been all positive so far. Tomorrow I'll be playing with some members of my local scene to try it out.

 

[SmashGamer112]

I've been playing SLHG matches for a week non-stop now and here are some things i want to share.

First, I haven't tested the Smooth Lander Bagde + the other 2 default bagdes since I got a combination of +8 +3 +3 when I first unlocked the SLB so I've been using that, which is really good, it seems that anything between 0 and 9 is the same.

Second, replacing Megaman, Sonic and DuckHunt recoveries with a custom is the definitive solution to "HG wrecks recoveries" issue.

Third, I haven't seen any balance issues by any means. In fact, I feel like its the opposite, since almost every character get kill setups and more reliable options to take out stocks. In vanilla Smash4 Diddy is a problem since he can just DThrow>UpAir you and get a incredibly reliable and easy kill, not only he doesn't take the stock as fast with that setup, but a lot of other characters have similar tools. Even bulky and slow characters like Ganondorf and Bowser have more/better options.

Fourth, Combos are actually a thing, you can be creative and go for a lot of mixups, and the amount of hitstun seems very healthy for it to not be broken.

I've been playing with CPUs and with a Cousin and the results have been all positive so far. Tomorrow I'll be playing with some members of my local scene to try it out.

Sorry but Sonic's other 2 custom recoveries actually make it worse from before in normal play so adding heavy gravity, it's just horrible. Megaman has options but it's not as good as his orginal (unless beat doesn't get affected from gravity but I don't think that's the case) though Duck Hunt as a jump one and another I can't remember.

EDIT: Also I'm up for the idea, but considering sonic's my main and his recovery is hindered and hindered even more with customs it makes it rule out the viability.

 

[Galespark]

Sorry but Sonic's other 2 custom recoveries actually make it worse from before in normal play so adding heavy gravity, it's just horrible. Megaman has options but it's not as good as his orginal (unless beat doesn't get affected from gravity but I don't think that's the case) though Duck Hunt as a jump one and another I can't remember.

EDIT: Also I'm up for the idea, but considering sonic's my main and his recovery is hindered and hindered even more with customs it makes it rule out the viability.

You are right, I just assumed Sonic recovering would be fixed with Double Spring but I finally got it this morning and tested it and yes, its actually worse. So Sonic recovery is the only problem that seems to not have a "definitive" fix. But unlike MM and DH Sonic has better horizontal recovery options with his NeutralB and SideB, so his recovery is not that bad... Worse? Absolutely, but not unviable. We'll see, I'll be testing him today.

As far as Megaman and DuckHunt; Megaman's Tornado Hold is actually better than Rush Coil in almost any sense, it fixes Megaman Recovery and gives him a new attack option, I haven't tested Beat since I haven't got it yet, but someone said it doesn't get affected by the HG. DuckHunt's Super Duck Jump works fine, you don't have much horizontal recovery but his vertical recovery is very good and it has a windbox that gives DH a new edgeguard tool. The other custom is basically the same as the original but with a hitbox, so I don't thnik it'll work, but I will test it anyways when I get it.

 

[SmashGamer112]

You are right, I just assumed Sonic recovering would be fixed with Double Spring but I finally got it this morning and tested it and yes, its actually worse. So Sonic recovery is the only problem that seems to not have a "definitive" fix. But unlike MM and DH Sonic has better horizontal recovery options with his NeutralB and SideB, so his recovery is not that bad... Worse? Absolutely, but not unviable. We'll see, I'll be testing him today.

As far as Megaman and DuckHunt; Megaman's Tornado Hold is actually better than Rush Coil in almost any sense, it fixes Megaman Recovery and gives him a new attack option, I haven't tested Beat since I haven't got it yet, but someone said it doesn't get affected by the HG. DuckHunt's Super Duck Jump works fine, you don't have much horizontal recovery but his vertical recovery is very good and it has a windbox that gives DH a new edgeguard tool. The other custom is basically the same as the original but with a hitbox, so I don't thnik it'll work, but I will test it anyways when I get it.

Well Homing Attack is horrible for Recovery because it sends you straight down unless your opponent comes to edge guard you. You can use surprise HA but surprise is useless other than the little up boost and it being quicker is just silly since if you mash the Special button with normal homing attack you get the same results without the lag that you get with surprise homing attack. Side B doesn't grab ledge like PM Sonic so that sucks to and it's got even less priority in the air going towards the stage.

So it's pretty bad.

Megaman's Tornado actually gives him less control and actually has less height (trust me Im a MM main). Duck Hunt Jump, I was unsure of so thanks for that. But I guess damage is ok.

Like I said I love the idea of SL and HG together but being a sonic/MM main it lowers my hype for it.

 

[Berble]

i don't understand why so many smash 4 players are getting excited over so many melee esque things that could be used in competitive smash 4. i've seen hundreds of people say something to the effect of "i wish this game was more like melee" and then someone immediately replies "smash 4 isn't melee its its own thing nobody cares about your l cancelling or wavedashes"
low landing lag aerials, heavy gravity and pivots are all things that make the game more like melee so i don't get why so many smash 4 players are now excited for this stuff

 

[Jugoken]

Well Homing Attack is horrible for Recovery because it sends you straight down unless your opponent comes to edge guard you. You can use surprise HA but surprise is useless other than the little up boost and it being quicker is just silly since if you mash the Special button with normal homing attack you get the same results without the lag that you get with surprise homing attack. Side B doesn't grab ledge like PM Sonic so that sucks to and it's got even less priority in the air going towards the stage.

So it's pretty bad.

Megaman's Tornado actually gives him less control and actually has less height (trust me Im a MM main). Duck Hunt Jump, I was unsure of so thanks for that. But I guess damage is ok.

Like I said I love the idea of SL and HG together but being a sonic/MM main it lowers my hype for it.

dude sonics awesomesauce under slgh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTnHIYYKMEg

 

[ParanoidDrone]

dude sonics awesomesauce under slgh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTnHIYYKMEg

I am decidedly unimpressed by any showcase video that just has someone play against the AI.

 

[Galespark]

i don't understand why so many smash 4 players are getting excited over so many melee esque things that could be used in competitive smash 4. i've seen hundreds of people say something to the effect of "i wish this game was more like melee" and then someone immediately replies "smash 4 isn't melee its its own thing nobody cares about your l cancelling or wavedashes"
low landing lag aerials, heavy gravity and pivots are all things that make the game more like melee so i don't get why so many smash 4 players are now excited for this stuff

Trust me, I play Melee and SLHG doesn't make the game like Melee. It makes the game faster and more combo-friendly while still being accesible. It's not trying to make the game like Melee but use the tools the game brings to make it as enjoyable as possible.

 

[Berble]

Trust me, I play Melee and SLHG doesn't make the game like Melee. It makes the game faster and more combo-friendly while still being accesible. It's not trying to make the game like Melee but use the tools the game brings to make it as enjoyable as possible.

i didn't say it makes it like melee but it makes it more like melee because it takes some key mechanics from melee (pivoting for a movement option and slhg as low lag aerials that can combo) i just don't get that this is the same **** that i saw smash 4 players saying they don't care about but now they all love it cause its actually in the game

 

[Galespark]

i didn't say it makes it like melee but it makes it more like melee because it takes some key mechanics from melee (pivoting for a movement option and slhg as low lag aerials that can combo) i just don't get that this is the same **** that i saw smash 4 players saying they don't care about but now they all love it cause its actually in the game

Except that pivoting is not a mechanic used in Melee? People compare it to wavedash because it gives you an option for ground spacing and "sliding" attacks, but its not quite like wavedash. Low landing lag on aerials is something people have been wanting in the game since they tried it at E3. You never have to rule out your options.

 

[Smiles]

i don't understand why so many smash 4 players are getting excited over so many melee esque things that could be used in competitive smash 4. i've seen hundreds of people say something to the effect of "i wish this game was more like melee" and then someone immediately replies "smash 4 isn't melee its its own thing nobody cares about your l cancelling or wavedashes"
low landing lag aerials, heavy gravity and pivots are all things that make the game more like melee so i don't get why so many smash 4 players are now excited for this stuff

Still don't think we should learn a "whole new game" every time a new series comes out. People who started on earlier series have come to love the little details and started with a whole different feel, set of techniques, moveset, and characters. Things slowly changed from a series that favored the aggressive combo heavy player (depending on which version they started) to a slower, frumpier, easier game that favors rolling, dodging, easy recoveries, and ultimately favors the defensive player. So why not add a few techs back from earlier series for the nostalgia and feel of more popular games of the series? Mechanics that made the game have a much higher learning cap, more fun to watch, and gave more gratification for pulling off moves then all the rest. I don't really understand people who say all of these things are inherently bad instead of things that could possibly help Smash 4, with little to no data on how it affects players, and ZERO tournament data to back their claims. Keep an open mind folks. Dis da future.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2iux2m/aerial_landing_lag_with_smooth_lander_items/

Very good read/data.

Except that pivoting is not a mechanic used in Melee? People compare it to wavedash because it gives you an option for ground spacing and "sliding" attacks, but its not quite like wavedash. Low landing lag on aerials is something people have been wanting in the game since they tried it at E3. You never have to rule out your options.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Pivoting

Pivoting was in melee. Its used in smash 4 additionally as a semi-wavedash apparently. Same concept, slightly different mechanics. And agreed. I can understand HG breaks a few characters recoveries, things like hard breaker and dodgy dodger need to be tested a bit more, but I only see good coming from SL.

PS. Let Project Melee's Newer seperate and striving community efforts be an example and standard of how we treat game mechanics, balancing, and custom equipment. They sure have put in the research and work for things like this.

#SmoothLander #customequipment #smash4fixed #LegalSL4tourney

 

[Meek Moths]

honestly dont get why would anyone want the smooth lander thing to be legal. punishing landing lag is one of the core parts of gameplay. thats like removing combos or throws

 

[Muro]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2iux2m/aerial_landing_lag_with_smooth_lander_items/

Very good read/data.

This is a very good read indeed, but it's a bit outdated. That guy mentions "weird stat effects" however we know we can get the same stats for everyone, and with a stat difference lower than 5. See this thread I did earlier. I wish people posted their impressions there, it's clear this OP does not care about this and is not gonna update his original post with the relevant information, so there's still lot of misinformation flying around.

honestly dont get why would anyone want the smooth lander thing to be legal. punishing landing lag is one of the core parts of gameplay. thats like removing combos or throws

And that doesn't change with SL.

 

[Thinkaman]

That posts suggests that SL does not make certain aerials unconditionally safe on block, which is false. My day of playing with smooth lander made this obvious, and anyone can go into frame-stop training mode to test for themselves. You can also tell just by looking at the numbers.

The game's parameters were methodically selected to ensure that all landing lag values are still vulnerable to shieldgrabs. SL breaks this crucial, fundamental behavior.

 

[Muro]

what's wrong with safe on block aerials?
I'm away from home now, but I'll test that in the weekend, just tell me what to look out for.
Just talking about pikachu, if you land the last hit of his fair, the shielding character can act OOS before YOUR hitlag ends... that's ridiculous, that doesn't even have anything to do with landing lag, shields are just OP with or without it.
Furthermore, "methodically selected" for what? For competitive play or for stopping little mac from overruning FG? lol, as if sakurai cared.

 

[Smiles]

honestly dont get why would anyone want the smooth lander thing to be legal. punishing landing lag is one of the core parts of gameplay. thats like removing combos or throws

You can very much so still punish lag landing. Not one person other than megamans n-air had 0 frames of aerial to ground lag, meaning EVERYTHING ELSE is still punishable to a certain extent. You still have upsmashing out of shields, powersheilding (perfect shielding) counterattack to anything, jump attack out of shield, grabbing, up b out of shield. Also now with Smash 4s almost no shield stun, ALL of this is easier. Why should being able to punish arial lag be handed to you on a silver platter with no work involved?

That posts suggests that SL does not make certain aerials unconditionally safe on block, which is false. My day of playing with smooth lander made this obvious, and anyone can go into frame-stop training mode to test for themselves. You can also tell just by looking at the numbers.

The game's parameters were methodically selected to ensure that all landing lag values are still vulnerable to shieldgrabs. SL breaks this crucial, fundamental behavior.

Not necessarily breaking but allowing for more aggressive pressure. Forcing the player to actually think a little -> try new things. Again even with SL on, the values of frame data lag afterwards for every character still suggest for major punishment. Characters that have powerful arials with tons of lag still have a decent amount of lag after the SL is equipped compared to characters that have relatively weak moves with less lag (understandable that more risk = more rewards and vica versa). With SL the process of exchange of arials to shield become quicker, flows easier, and again forces players to think critically about their next move.

 

[Smiles]

This is a very good read indeed, but it's a bit outdated. That guy mentions "weird stat effects" however we know we can get the same stats for everyone, and with a stat difference lower than 5. See this thread I did earlier. I wish people posted their impressions there, it's clear this OP does not care about this and is not gonna update his original post with the relevant information, so there's still lot of misinformation flying around.



And that doesn't change with SL.

Double post. Agreed Agreed, will check out.

 

[Thinkaman]

Most characters need at least 7 frames advantage to punish OoS.

Safe aerials should require spacing or auto-canceling. Blinding jumping at someone and doing an aerial as you hit the ground should *never* be safe on block. I have no idea why anyone would ever want such a behavior in the game.


Like, this is basic fighting game design theory that should be in no way controversial.

Attacks should always beat grabs, unless the grabber specifically timed around the attack's spacing.
Grabs should always beat blocks and dodges, unless the dodger specifically timed to avoid the grab.
Blocks should always beat attacks, unless the attacker specifically spaced to mitigate the frame advantage.

All the parameters in Smash 4 are rigged to ensure this fundamental relationship.

 

[Muro]

blindingly pressing shield also shouldn't just put you at a huge advantage. Not to talk about rolls or spot dodges...

And you can absolutely punish badly spaced aerials on shield even with smooth lander.

 

[Thinkaman]

Not gonna lie, it's extremely hard to take people who complain about defenses in Smash 4 seriously.

 

[RanserSSF4]

blindingly pressing shield also shouldn't just put you at a huge advantage. Not to talk about rolls or spot dodges...

And you can absolutely punish badly spaced aerials on shield even with smooth lander.

I honestly agree with this. I've seen some SL videos and a player did a Nair with Shiek and he got punished for it. Keep in mind, it was spaced right and the opponent reacted quickly.

 

[Smiles]

Most characters need at least 7 frames advantage to punish OoS.

Safe aerials should require spacing or auto-canceling. Blinding jumping at someone and doing an aerial as you hit the ground should *never* be safe on block. I have no idea why anyone would ever want such a behavior in the game.


Like, this is basic fighting game design theory that should be in no way controversial.

Attacks should always beat grabs, unless the attack was poorly spaced/timed.
Grabs should always beat blocks, unless the grab was poorly spaced/timed.
Blocks should always beat attacks, unless the attack was poorly spaced/timed.

All the parameters in Smash 4 are rigged to ensure this fundamental relationship.

See, even referring them to "blind jumping" is a bit of a stretch. It implies none of your arials spaced or not, is thought about strategically in the least. Its a huge oversimplification don't you think? Strategic shield pressure (as we should start calling it) can have tons of benefits. I will totally agree perfectly spacing is godly, and smash 4 s parameters are rigged to ensure this. I just firmly believe lag and many other things were implemented to destroy competitive smash. Thanks Sakurai.

 

[Thinkaman]

Oh look, it's the vengeful dark god Sakurai narrative again.

inb4 he puts fluoride in our water and gives us all cancer.

 

[Smiles]

Oh look, it's the vengeful dark god Sakurai narrative again.

inb4 he puts fluoride in our water and gives us all cancer.

lol the Red herringsssssss

 

[Muro]

dude, no matter what fairytale you make up in your head, sakurai is not thinking about you when he's "balancing" his game. He does some general balance but overall he doesn't specifically balance with competition in mind. You'd like it, I get that, I'd like it too, but it's just not true. He's not out to get us, he just isn't out to cater to our niche community either.

Here let me quote a post you already ignored before.

You sir need to learn to read.

"If we want new people from this generation of gamers to come in, then we need it accessible, simple, and playable by anyone. You can't let yourself get preoccupied with nothing but gameplay and balance details.

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-08-smash-bros-melee-was-too-difficult?

“When planning the development of a new game, I always take a lot of care to discuss the concept and try to define it as best I can. For example, I like to think of Smash as a four-player battle royal action game. You’ll notice that’s a lot longer than saying it’s a fighting game, because ‘fighting game’ is a completely different label."

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/20/smash-bros-sakurai-wants-to-target-silent-brawl-loving-community/

"If tournament popularity was the most important consideration, then I think we would create a Smash Bros. game that included a multitude of fast moves with complicated controls. However, I believe this is actually the greatest shortcoming of fighting games at present, and that is the reason why I don’t do it."

"While there’s a lot of enthusiasm for tournaments on the one hand, there are also users who just give up on these sorts of games because they can’t handle the complexity and speed. While other fighting games continue to work on honing this tournament aspect, I think that we need to move in a direction where there is more of a focus on inexperienced gamers."

"There are so many other games out there which are geared to tournaments. It is important for us, however, to maintain the game’s status as a kind of ‘rough’ party game in which anyone can play without feeling too much pressure over winning or losing.


Source: http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...-smash-bros-more-interesting-than-the-others/

when asked if he takes feedback on balancing the game from high level competitive players, he responded:

"Mostly I don't incorporate feedback like that. Basically, Smash Bros. is designed to be sort of targeted at the center, intermediate players, and if you think of sort of a skill graph or something where if you're targeting just the peak of that performance level, you're targeting a very small group of people. We wanna avoid a situation where it becomes a game sort of like other competitive fighting games, where it's only apreciated by a very small, passionate group of sort of maniac players. We definitely don't want that sort of situation. It's supposed to be a fun game for a wide variety of people."
Source: http://kotaku.com/an-in-depth-chat-with-the-genius-behind-super-smash-bro-530744390

"In all previous Smash Bros. games, I've entered in all the data for fighter skills and hitboxes by myself, and it's quite nearly that way with this game too. I've thought about leaving this work to others and I've actually tried it once or twice, but it hasn't worked out. I don't want to release an incomplete game, and I want everything to be as successful as possible, but it results in a massive amount of work for me. It's a big problem, but there are reasons for doing it this way." — Masahiro Sakurai
"...we have to work to keep things dynamic and not over-fine-tune the balance. If we aim for complete fairness, there won't be any personality to it." — Masahiro Sakurai

Source: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakurai-is-balancing-the-new-smash-bros-games-by-himself

So, Since you couldn't read or comprehend my previous post and pretended that all I had was "bias and speculation," lets see if you can read and comprehend after seeing it a second time. . .

I have. . . 6 sources stating that sakurai does not prioritize the competitive scene, and a source stating that he does all the balancing "by himself." Let's try counting now, I hope that's not too difficult for you to understand. not just 2 sources, but 6. Do you understand? 6 sources is not bias or speculation. I'm not sure how much more simple I can make that for you to comprehend.

now, feel free to twist it to fit your narrative.

 

[Thinkaman]

The narrative twist has always been taking the million instances of "I don't make the game exclusively for competitive players" into "I hate competitive players and actively try to ruin the game for them."

In truth, Sakurai follows the same "bullseye" balance paradigms as pretty much everyone else. This is why the balance team consists exclusively of extremely skilled players, and why the Wii U release patch was largely in accordance with top-level observations in both US and Japan.

 

[Smiles]

dude, no matter what fairytale you make up in your head, sakurai is not thinking about you when he's "balancing" his game. He does some general balance but overall he doesn't specifically balance with competition in mind. You'd like it, I get that, I'd like it too, but it's just not true. He's not out to get us, he just isn't out to cater to our niche community either.

Here let me quote a post you already ignored before.



now, feel free to twist it to fit your narrative.

Woah woah woah. Fairytale land? Narratives? I'll admit "destroy competitive smash" might have been harsh. But just as you've mentioned "he just isn't out to cater to our niche community either" which can be upsetting for a lot. Don't get me wrong. I still love Smash 4. But as for a competitive standard "accessible, simple, and playable by anyone" is not for me.

ANYWAYS #SL4tourney #SmoothLander #customequipment

 

[Muro]

Woah woah woah. Fairytale land? Narratives? I'll admit "destroy competitive smash" might have been harsh. But just as you've mentioned "he just isn't out to cater to our niche community either" which can be upsetting for a lot. Don't get me wrong. I still love Smash 4. But as for a competitive standard "accessible, simple, and playable by anyone" is not for me.

ANYWAYS #SL4tourney #SmoothLander #customequipment

huh, not sure what you're saying here. That post was more directed at thinkaman.

The narrative twist has always been taking the million instances of "I don't make the game exclusively for competitive players" into "I hate competitive players and actively try to ruin the game for them."

In truth, Sakurai follows the same "bullseye" balance paradigms as pretty much everyone else. This is why the balance team consists exclusively of extremely skilled players, and why the Wii U release patch was largely in accordance with top-level observations in both US and Japan.

yeah, he doesn't take input from top players like other devs dealing with competitive scenes. So he is balancing, just for a different metagame. He might hit some spots, but he still misses others. Just like randomly buffing and nerfing characters would.

 

[Smiles]

my bizzle

 

[Deva]

The narrative twist has always been taking the million instances of "I don't make the game exclusively for competitive players" into "I hate competitive players and actively try to ruin the game for them."

In truth, Sakurai follows the same "bullseye" balance paradigms as pretty much everyone else. This is why the balance team consists exclusively of extremely skilled players, and why the Wii U release patch was largely in accordance with top-level observations in both US and Japan.

Is that the balance team of extremely skilled players consisting of just Sakurai since he stated he's the only one who balances the characters? xP

But in all seriousness, (inb4 thinkaman's angry god rant) I'm not saying Sakurai isn't balancing at all towards competitive play. To some degree, his balance will pertain to the competitive scene. But since he's already stated that he doesn't really take into account the input of competitive players when balancing, and that his balancing focuses around the concept of a 4 player battle royale, that is the sort of balance you should be expecting.

 

[Mario1080p]

Because the most recent Equipment discussion thread was recently locked, I guess I can post my idea here.

I've been testing out a unique Smash mode involving Equipment obtained from the Smash Challenge screen.

All you need to do is Collect every Special Move(Golden Hammer recommended), Clear an Intense Difficulty Master Orders ticket(depending on condition, it's not that hard), & get 50 KOs in a single Endless Smash.

Doing those three challenges should always give you:
-Smooth Lander Brawn Badge(+36 Attack/-35 Defense)
-No-Flinch Smasher Protection Badge(+15 Defense/-29 Speed)
-Desperate Specialist Agility Badge(+25 Speed/-33 Attack)

Any character should end up with +3 Attack, -20 Defence, & -4 Speed.

On early testing, my main concern were the lightweights getting K.O.'d way under 100%, but setting the Launch Rate to 0.9x seems to help them a bit.

I find this mode interesting because of how fast these matches go with just 4 stocks, then again I've only been taking on High level CPUs so I have absolutely no idea how this type of Smash will do with actual players.

I've made a Miiverse post with screenshots further explaining on this mode(which I still have no official name yet), but I am currently too new to post links at the moment. You can find my miiverse profile by putting in my NNID which is right below my profile name above a row of Marios haha.

I'm curious on what you all think?

 

[Muro]

.

I gathered the information on equipment obtained by challenges on this thread. You can get a non random set of equipment with all stat differences < 5. There's more info there so give it a read if you want.

 

[Mario1080p]

That thread was all the info I needed as I spent awhile asking people if their copies of Smash has identical equipment stats found in challenges.

The Build I came up with isn't for Heavy Smash(though was inspired by SL+HS) in particular as I found this build to be fine without it, but you can add it to Build 5 if you wish.

It's a bit of a unusual type of Smash, something Sakurai could come up with if he really wanted Smash 4 to be different from the rest.

I told my idea to a Youtuber named "My Smash Corner"(known for his tutorial videos), and he found my idea interesting and encouraged me to post it on Smashboards. Still no replies on my thread though, still unsure how people feel about a much stronger/durable Rage seeing how people dislike the mechanic as it is.

 

[Muro]

That thread was all the info I needed as I spent awhile asking people if their copies of Smash has identical equipment stats found in challenges.

The Build I came up with isn't for Heavy Smash(though was inspired by SL+HS) in particular as I found this build to be fine without it, but you can add it to Build 5 if you wish.

It's a bit of a unusual type of Smash, something Sakurai could come up with if he really wanted Smash 4 to be different from the rest.

I told my idea to a Youtuber named "My Smash Corner"(known for his tutorial videos), and he found my idea interesting and encouraged me to post it on Smashboards. Still no replies on my thread though, still unsure how people feel about a much stronger/durable Rage seeing how people dislike the mechanic as it is.

I'm glad it helped. You can post your impressions on your mode in that thread so I'll have something more to add to the OP other than just the build itself. The thread is not HG exclusive.
I'm not gonna test it myself since I enjoy heavy gravity much better. cheers.

 

[Kwam$tack$]

I finally saw some actual match vids and I really hope this thing gets off the ground and up & running. It looks promising

 

[Mario1080p]

I would like to post my impressions, but I've mostly been taking on CPUs so it's hard telling unless someone is willing to try this out with me online.

Would also help if someone has the ability to post matches to Youtube as a way to demonstrate my idea, but I guess I could wait for Smash getting an update allowing people to post videos in-game.

(sorry I took so long to respond)