yellowroy
Smash Ace
lol i know falco's good on it but fox's upsmash kills later and uair kills later.
but it's just a good jiggs map tho.
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SMASHPOCALYPSE:: SPOC IX in February? Link to SPOC VIII results in OP
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
but it's just a good jiggs map tho.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Peach has FD for both spacies, Jiggly has Dreamland for both spacies.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
honestly scar if u wanna run it like that then you should make it concrete. Allowing a player to refuse to doing it isn't much of a test of the system. People may hate you for doing it but if you wanna try something, its your tourney. I personally dun care which rule set you use. The only instance in which i care is when Onnett is being discussed.
Just throwing ideas out since my head is working now:
Maybe the top 6 or 9 of a tourney playing the rest of it out by that rule set.
In swifts perfect world:
-I'd keep the old system but remove stages with campable sides(corneria, green greens) and ones without ledges (mute).
-resets from MLG and bans on non-neutrals.
Just throwing ideas out since my head is working now:
Maybe the top 6 or 9 of a tourney playing the rest of it out by that rule set.
In swifts perfect world:
-I'd keep the old system but remove stages with campable sides(corneria, green greens) and ones without ledges (mute).
-resets from MLG and bans on non-neutrals.
I think......
Actually I agree with this......
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Cia
das kwl
kills later = 15% more. that's like 5 lasers.
Vex - peach and puff have one stage that's not AS bad as the rest of the Neutrals. and since your opponent only needs to worry about banning that one stage, it isn't going to do you much good.
yellowroy
Smash Ace
lol what im trying to ask is if they have no bans just stagestrikes for first game and cp out of the 7 neutrals.
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
These rules...are flat out terrible. You're only supposed to ban things when the game comes down to "this one strategy is 100% unbeatable." The legal CP stages in intelligent rulesets don't have 100% unbeatable strategies. This vid is proof that skill is what decides who wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K80TYnAjqaw
Yes obviously it's only one vid and there are vids of people losing on CP stages because their character was at a disadvantage. But it does prove that a match on Poke Floats doesn't have a single one strategy that is 100% unbeatable that can only be overcome by using that strategy better than your opponent. All you're doing with your ruleset is making it EASIER for space animals to win. It's a horrifyingly bad idea to take part of what makes the smash series so unique completely away from it. Armada vs Mango wasn't decided by counterpick stages. Mango vs M2K wasn't decided by counterpick stages. Armada vs M2K wasn't decided by counterpick stages. Restrictions are only supposed to be put into place when the game is ruined without them and top level players never lose solely because of counterpick stages. All this ruleset does is cater to the whims of babies and make it easier for the best two characters in the game by leagues to win.
I might come anyways though since I play spacies and I need to **** your ****.
CanISmash
Smash Lord
ok cool so basically everyone will ignore these rules, play tournaments how they've been played and life goes on happy?
and what spam said.
and what spam said.
DJ Nintendo
Smash Champion
I need a strong teammate for this.
Cia
das kwl
I LOVE THIS POST.
These rules...are flat out terrible. You're only supposed to ban things when the game comes down to "this one strategy is 100% unbeatable." The legal CP stages in intelligent rulesets don't have 100% unbeatable strategies. This vid is proof that skill is what decides who wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K80TYnAjqaw
Yes obviously it's only one vid and there are vids of people losing on CP stages because their character was at a disadvantage. But it does prove that a match on Poke Floats doesn't have a single one strategy that is 100% unbeatable that can only be overcome by using that strategy better than your opponent. All you're doing with your ruleset is making it EASIER for space animals to win. It's a horrifyingly bad idea to take part of what makes the smash series so unique completely away from it. Armada vs Mango wasn't decided by counterpick stages. Mango vs M2K wasn't decided by counterpick stages. Armada vs M2K wasn't decided by counterpick stages. Restrictions are only supposed to be put into place when the game is ruined without them and top level players never lose solely because of counterpick stages. All this ruleset does is cater to the whims of babies and make it easier for the best two characters in the game by leagues to win.
I might come anyways though since I play spacies and I need to **** your ****.
srsly
Spam is so gay.....
But that was pretty raaaaaape.
Spam lets do doubles friendlies with top tier characters.
Like Kirby.
But that was pretty raaaaaape.
Spam lets do doubles friendlies with top tier characters.
Like Kirby.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Scar which if you want to attempt to make this standard, don't allow people to agree to different rules like you mentioned. Look at all of the naysayers already in this thread. Screw them, your tourney, if you wanna try it, go for it - you certainly have my support.
By openly saying people can use different rules at this only stops your plan from fruition, and it will never become standard. Also, if what everyone says is true and this does screw over some characters and benefit others, then we need hard evidence, we need results. If half of the bracket matches played here use the old rules, your results won't mean a thing in proving the validity of your new ruleset. After people were discontent with my new rules in the DSO thread and said they would allow other things anyway, I made a new rule (lol) that says people have to abide by the rules and can not agree to other or banned rules. Anyone who breaks it will be DQd. If a single person can't be blamed, DQ both. Who cares.
If people don't wanna give this a shot, then don't come. Go host your own tournament. But I would think most of you out there have the trust and faith in Scar and his Smashpocalypse to at least try this ruleset for one whole tourney. If you're not going to come just because of that, then who cares, you'll be missing out on another quality tournament.
Also, to go against Spam's video cause I feel like it lol, you're comparing the best player in Europe who took down M2k and almost beat Mango to take first at Genesis to someone who got 25th at Genesis. There is a massive skill gap, and Armada almost lost. Not to mention everyone had to sit through another 7+ minute match, go to a Brawl tourney and have a blast.
I'll be here.
I'm forcing every tourney and money match I play that day to use the new stage rule set.
I'm gonna have an amazing time.
Everyone else should do the same.
By openly saying people can use different rules at this only stops your plan from fruition, and it will never become standard. Also, if what everyone says is true and this does screw over some characters and benefit others, then we need hard evidence, we need results. If half of the bracket matches played here use the old rules, your results won't mean a thing in proving the validity of your new ruleset. After people were discontent with my new rules in the DSO thread and said they would allow other things anyway, I made a new rule (lol) that says people have to abide by the rules and can not agree to other or banned rules. Anyone who breaks it will be DQd. If a single person can't be blamed, DQ both. Who cares.
If people don't wanna give this a shot, then don't come. Go host your own tournament. But I would think most of you out there have the trust and faith in Scar and his Smashpocalypse to at least try this ruleset for one whole tourney. If you're not going to come just because of that, then who cares, you'll be missing out on another quality tournament.
Also, to go against Spam's video cause I feel like it lol, you're comparing the best player in Europe who took down M2k and almost beat Mango to take first at Genesis to someone who got 25th at Genesis. There is a massive skill gap, and Armada almost lost. Not to mention everyone had to sit through another 7+ minute match, go to a Brawl tourney and have a blast.
I'll be here.
I'm forcing every tourney and money match I play that day to use the new stage rule set.
I'm gonna have an amazing time.
Everyone else should do the same.
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
No. It doesn't take a genius to tell you a tournament where only Fourside is allowed is stupid as hell. By being intelligent, you can reason whether or not it's worth it.
I don't give a **** if Lunin got 25th and Armada got 2nd. If a strategy is unbeatable, it's unbeatable if little timmy down the lane can pick up a controller and use it to beat anyone who tries to do anything else.
No one cares Chibo. Every tournament I've been to that you ran has been poorly run with every event starting significantly later than it should have. Scar is infinitely better a TO than you, don't try to encourage him to make his tournaments bad like yours.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Nothing is 100% unwinnable. The game developers might not be the best balancers of fighting games, but if it was truly that bad, they would notice it. Onett is banned. Can you name a matchup that is guaranteed 100% unwinnable for one of the sides?
You have been to three of my tournaments. CoT3, CoT4, and BtL. I feel I do not need to go into CoT4. What was wrong with CoT3? You were there on the Melee day, which ran fine. The Brawl day had a little hiccup due to a bad Tio error and I had to make the bracket by hand and seed it from pools properly with respect to location which took some time, however it still finished on time.No one cares Chibo. Every tournament I've been to that you ran has been poorly run with every event starting significantly later than it should have. Scar is infinitely better a TO than you, don't try to encourage him to make his tournaments bad like yours.
BtL started a whole 45 minutes late. I said it would start at noon, it started at 12:45. First of all, I tell everyone the tournament will start an hour before I really want it to, since everyone is always late. I didn't plan on realistically starting until 1pm. No one ended up being late and I was ready to start at noon, however one of the attendees that drove from the freicken Midwest (sorry I forget the name, I keep getting everyone mixed up of those that traveled far like Shanus, Dark Falco, etc). He stayed over at Cape's place the night before and during the night, someone broke into his van, not only stealing stuff, but leaving his window shattered. I found out about this at around 11:45 or so. The first 15 minutes were them calling the police and campus security and reporting what happened, and the next 45 minutes was him relocating his van to my apartment and I went there to help him clean up the glass and make a quick temp solution trash bag window for his van. We were ahead of schedule, so I used the time to help out a friend who drove over 6 hours to get to my tournament who was unfortunate enough to be robbed while there. I also couldn't start it at 12 since there was a couple people involved with it and it would have held up the teams bracket too long and I would have rather started everything at the same time. The tourney ran fast, it did not run late at all, and everyone had a great time.
There is no reason at all you should be making personal attacks at me because I defended Scar's list.
DJ Nintendo
Smash Champion
Bowser Vs. Peach on FD lol.
Cia
das kwl
just pointing out that i was not asking him to change his rules. However, those rules are really unfair to A LOT of characters. And hopefully the SBR will not make this standard
Eggm
Smash Hero
Well since everyone was arguing I decided to actually read the rules. They ****.
I am not a huge fan of the rules but I am very interested in seeing how they affect the results of the tournament.
The one I think is pretty cool is Scar's version of Dave's stupid rule. If you win on your opponent's counter pick, you can re-pick it.
I kind of agree with Chibo. If Scar really wants to try out his rule set he should force people to use it.
Scar: What about teams? Assuming FoD is not legal in teams you either need to remove a stage (KJ64 please! that stage blows) or add another one.
The one I think is pretty cool is Scar's version of Dave's stupid rule. If you win on your opponent's counter pick, you can re-pick it.
I kind of agree with Chibo. If Scar really wants to try out his rule set he should force people to use it.
Scar: What about teams? Assuming FoD is not legal in teams you either need to remove a stage (KJ64 please! that stage blows) or add another one.
GOTM
Smash Champion
i like the rules. spam you blow
GOTM
Smash Champion
i like how scar made kj64 legal after my tourney had it, lol
forcing people to use the rules is ********... if both sides wanna play their tourney match on icicle mountain, what are you gonna do about it?
Anyway, I really hate counterpick stages recently so I like the rule set for myself, but I'm not sure how I feel about it in general. I too am curious about how these rules will affect the results.
Anyway, I really hate counterpick stages recently so I like the rule set for myself, but I'm not sure how I feel about it in general. I too am curious about how these rules will affect the results.
GOTM
Smash Champion
omg. someone PLEASE play me in tournament on icicle mountain.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
regardless of what happens what I said and what chibo says here should stand.
Go big or don't go at all scar cuz then you'll have half of the entrants playing by a different ruleset and I can hear the johns already "if marf_hotness wouldve agreed to the new ruleset i wouldve won but instead he went luigi on brinstar and my fox got *****."
Make a stand on a side and if that effects turnout well then thats also to be noted in the test. You'd be short changing yourself and your ideas by doing this half a$$ed "can agree to do it or not thing". Doing that with stages (like 2 ppl agreeing to play mushroom kingdom II) is different but an entire rule set being at risk is too significant.
once again im not on either side of the argument just concerned with how this will get executed
=)
GOTM
Smash Champion
yeah scar force people to do this **** otherwise NO ONE will do it, lol.
if they dont do it tell em to blow you.
if they dont do it tell em to blow you.
you really can't force people to use rules.
The point is that if someone doesn't wanna get taken to Mute City for an autoloss game 2, they can just point to the tourney rules and say, "nope, you can't take me there bro."
I don't understand how people think that no one would use these rules if they're allowed to not use them only with the consent of BOTH players...
The point is that if someone doesn't wanna get taken to Mute City for an autoloss game 2, they can just point to the tourney rules and say, "nope, you can't take me there bro."
I don't understand how people think that no one would use these rules if they're allowed to not use them only with the consent of BOTH players...
Mogwai's right. The stage striking rule vs the random rule isn't a huge issue. I imagine most people don't care too much about that. The big issue is the lack of counterpick stages. Most people don't want to get counterpicked to Mute Brinstar etc... I don't see a lot of people agreeing to play on a counterpick stage.
However, if I meet GOTM in tournament we are going to icilcle mountain round 1.
@Swift why would you EVER play Luigi on Brinstar?
However, if I meet GOTM in tournament we are going to icilcle mountain round 1.
@Swift why would you EVER play Luigi on Brinstar?
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
loool. Sure I can. Fox vs Ganondorf on Hyrule Temple is 100% unwinnable. This is why Hyrule Temple is banned. It is impossible to catch Fox on that stage and if you hits you with one laser you lose. This isn't true for other stages.
Four actually. I went to CoT2 also.
Singles starting at like 6-7 PM is pretty horrendous. I actually planned on entering but because it started too late I couldn't.
Waaaaaaaaay too much time both between matches and between doubles/singles.
I am sick and tired of asking you "Hey Chibo, can you tell me why your rules are this way?" or giving a reason why they shouldn't be the way they are and hearing "I don't give a ****, shut up and don't come if you don't like the rules" from you or "I NEED MATCH EVIDENCE THAT NORFAIR IS UNFAIR". Sure, you can run a tournament with a bad ruleset, but there is no point in pissing off a lot of people by doing that.
Swift, the rules say both people have to agree to a normal ruleset for them to be able to play on other stages. If either player wants to use the SPOC ruleset, that's what will be used :/.Swiftbass said:
Yo this isn't good its a fighting game ...
Ok example
People are supposed to ban first because of the character selection or player knowledge ... not playstyle ... that's soooo stupid .... people can be like o **** close game .... whew ... I'm definitely banning that now I didn't know X player was soooo good at executing ____ on that stage ...
Ok example
People are supposed to ban first because of the character selection or player knowledge ... not playstyle ... that's soooo stupid .... people can be like o **** close game .... whew ... I'm definitely banning that now I didn't know X player was soooo good at executing ____ on that stage ...
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Scar's ruleset is alright, Swift's is much better though.
i'll play either way ... but its going to be crazy lol
if everyone randomly likes it ... i'll start using it for no johns tho ... w.e the people want right scar ... LOL
but seriously ... good luck vs smart spacies that notice playstyles .. because its just + + + + ... its like having two mirror forces face down lol
if everyone randomly likes it ... i'll start using it for no johns tho ... w.e the people want right scar ... LOL
but seriously ... good luck vs smart spacies that notice playstyles .. because its just + + + + ... its like having two mirror forces face down lol
wut is swift's ruleset?
I don't think it makes as much of a difference as you're making it sound. I sorta agree that bans should happen at the start of the match, but my reasons for wanting that are solely logistical (it cuts out the deliberation period between matches).
Eddie Mexico took me to Brinstar with Luigi.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
People who truly would feel forced will not be compelled to go. By entering you are agreeing to the ruleset(DSR, chibo video rule etc.) theres nothing forced about it. Its whether people decide to go/enter. If Scar makes a strong stand and makes his rule set absolute for this tourney and someone enters and tries to counter pick mute city then its their fault, they're the idiot.
my ruleset.
random game1 and CP'ing as usual
the original 6 neutrals
removal of stages with permanent/frequently reoccurring campy walls(green greens, corneria)
removal of stages without ledges(mute)
the choice of:
mlg reset rule and a non-neutral ban
-or-
a ban on a neutral
godly
my ruleset.
random game1 and CP'ing as usual
the original 6 neutrals
removal of stages with permanent/frequently reoccurring campy walls(green greens, corneria)
removal of stages without ledges(mute)
the choice of:
mlg reset rule and a non-neutral ban
-or-
a ban on a neutral
Onnett is legal
ok, so we're not actually talking about a different ruleset, we're just talking about swift saying that the rules shouldn't have a sentence in them about players being able to agree to use different rules?
stating "players may use different rules if both parties agree upon them" is harmless. players will do this anyway, whether or not it is in the rules.
stating "players may use different rules if both parties agree upon them" is harmless. players will do this anyway, whether or not it is in the rules.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
do what? agree on stage or agree on a ruleset? there lies my confusion
agreeing on a stage(icicle mountain) and agreeing on a ruleset are totally diff.
@pakman:
some luigi at pound3 brinstar'd me. I dun see how it put luigi a a dis advantage or anything. It think vs a spacy its super legit. I mean personally I think he doesnt need it since luigi is one of the fakest characters in the game but thats just me.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Well my issue is recovery and tech chasing. Basically for edge guarding weegie, you can just stand behind the attackable part under the platforms. You don't have to worry about misfires or Luigi going for the stage because he will hit that wall and stop. If Luigi tries to go under the stage there is no wall to forward B into which is my same issue with KJ 64.
The attackable crap that splits the stage makes chasing with wave dashes harder.
The only advantage I can see is the lava saving you from edge hogs.
The attackable crap that splits the stage makes chasing with wave dashes harder.
The only advantage I can see is the lava saving you from edge hogs.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
thuimbs it was smashgod
is ridic. as opposed to jiggs or kirby who has to jump mulitple times. When the lava comes up luigi can jump once and space something(assuming the poor space animal gets hit by lava). his ability to lava combo seems pretty good in short. You make great point defensively/recovery wise tho. I dunno i see it being a stage that could swing in luigis favor quick or blow up in his face. I'd say its a risky counter pick.
offensively i believe the lava works for him too. His amount of
Thinking about it, you have to weigh what you gain with what you lose. I'd say against a falco you chances might go up, but I still don't like it against fox.
Maybe Marth? I'd have to fool with it a bit.
Maybe Marth? I'd have to fool with it a bit.