Smashboards Mini-Recreates: The SSB Series Rosters

[Masked Borb]

1. Impa
2.
3. Simon

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

Waluigi
Simon
Impa

 

[Northsouthmap]

1. Simon
2. Impa
3. Waluigi

 

[darkvortex]

Waluigi
Simon
Impa

 

[Louie G.]

1. Simon Belmont
2. Waluigi
3. Jill Valentine

I won't write up too much about this round, but I didn't get to nominate anyone and my preference is for us to maximize first party characters before we get to DLC and only focus on third party crossover / characters from the last three years. I say this, but I'm voting for two third party characters here... that made up most of our options here, so I'm just working with what I've got.

Simon should be here and IMO should have been here over Banjo as the base game's sole third party, pushing Banjo to DLC. I'm unsure why we started allowing this balance to be broken when we've followed it pretty closely up to this point. Nonetheless Castlevania is a natural fit and he deserves to be here. Jill nabs my third vote and I can say similar things about her. I think Resident Evil is a huge deal and is often overlooked in the Smash discussion. I'd like to bring someone in to represent horror games, it's nice to tackle a spread of genres and tap into every theoretical taste in games the player may have. She probably won't make it in this round so I'd consider her someone worth coming back to when we talk DLC.

I'm also voting for Waluigi, because why not. I don't feel incredibly strong about whether he's in Ultimate or not, I feel like he mostly became a BIG request after he was revealed as an AT again, but in a world where we got Ridley early perhaps someone else needed to take his place. I really like Waluigi and I'd be glad to see how they implement him. Shoutouts to Impa because I feel like we made the same mistake with Zelda that the real Smash did (worse, actually) but Impa has never been someone that excites me all that much individually. Had Skull Kid or Midna been nominated instead I would have voted for them.

 

[Qwerty UIOP]

1. Crash
2. Simon Belmont
3. Shovel Knight

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the votes:

Jill Valentine 4
Corrin
Simon Belmont 22
Azura
Impa 9
Waluigi 11
Shovel Knight 3
Crash Bandicoot 5

Simon and Waluigi are the final unique base game newcomers.

Job 56: Submit an Echo Fighter

I’ll nominate Chrom as a Marth echo as I assume that he would be requested, and he’s Marth’s descendant.

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

Resubmitting Hilda

 

[Northsouthmap]

Ken (Echo of Ryu)

Resubmitting Ken

 

[darkvortex]

Richter Belmont

 

[BritishGuy54]

Resubmitting Alvis.

 

[Masked Borb]

Job 56: Echoes
Good ol' for good ol'

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the nominations.
Pupp135 Chrom
TheLastMaverickHunter Hilda
Northsouthmap Ken
D darkvortex Richter
BritishGuy54 Alvis
Masked Borb Dark Pit

Vote for your three most wanted, where yours is not first.

1. Hilda
2. Chrom
3. Ken

An alternate to Zelda seems interesting, and Octoling is the only girl newcomer at the moment. Ken as an echo would highlight his origins in Street Fighter.

 

[darkvortex]

1. Ken
2. Chrom
3. Richter

 

[BritishGuy54]

1. Chrom
2. Alvis
3. Dark Pit

 

[Masked Borb]

1. Chrom
2. Dark Pit
3. Richter

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

Ken
Pittoo
Richter

 

[Northsouthmap]

1. Chrom
2. Ken
3, Richter

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the votes:

Chrom 13
Hilda 3
Ken 9
Richter 4
Alvis 2
Dark Pit 5

Chrom, Ken, and Dark Pit are the final echoes, rounding out the base Alternate Ultimate roster.

Check-In: How do you like the Alternate Ultimate Roster? What parts did you like about it, and what would you have changed? Also, what do you expect/hope for the DLC fighters?

Spoiler: Roster

Mr. Game & Watch
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Princess Peach
Yoshi
Princess Daisy
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina & Luma
Waluigi
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong echo)
King K. Rool
Wario
Little Mac
Link
Princess Zelda
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Takamaru
Samus Aaran
Ridley
Dark Samus
Pit
Dark Pit (Pit echo)
Palutena
Marth
Chrom (Marth echo)
Celica
Lyn
Ike
Robin
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Bandana Waddle Dee
Fox McCloud
Falco Lombardi
Krystal
Ness
Pikachu
Meowth
Mewtwo
Pichu
Pokemon Trainer (Blaziken, Grovyle, Mudkip)
Lucario
Greninja
Mimickyu
Villager
Isabelle
Isaac
Pikmin & Olimar
Pikmin & Alph (Olimar echo)
Yuka
Mii
Wii Fit Trainer
Shulk
Inkling
Octoling (Inkling echo)
Pac-Man
Solid Snake
Simon Belmont
Ryu
Ken (Ryu echo)
Mega Man
Sonic the Hedgehog
Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic echo)
Rayman
Cloud Strife
Banjo & Kazooie

I’ll divide my opinion into three parts: newcomer selection, series wide in terms of franchise additions, and series wide in terms of who we added each game.

Spoiler: Newcomers

Like with the real base Ultimate roster, none of the newcomers interest me, but the lineup was strong nonetheless where we added a ton of requested characters and a popular Alola pokemon. The echo line up help bring in more major players.

Spoiler: Franchises

Super Mario: This lineup seems pretty strong as it has the main players and a few popular side characters. The only thing we could’ve added here is Toad with potentially a Toadette echo and maybe a mook, but the mook seems to be less of a priority.
Donkey Kong: I like this lineup. DK Jr. would have been an interesting Melee clone, and Dixie Kong is able to break her way in even though the cards were stacked against her (failed tag team mechanic, missing DK Country Returns, and K. Rool’s ballot).
Wario: It’s fine as is.
Legend of Zelda: This is probably the most complicated one to discuss. On the one hand, it seems that we messed up even more with the Triforce only mindset and the small number of fighters. On the other hand, I understand how we got here. In Melee, the only options who would have worked were who weren’t explicitly Zelda or Ganon(dorf) were Sheik and Young Link, neither of which we added. Going into Brawl, Skull Kid is no longer a major player, Tingle was strongly hated in the US, and Midna was a little too late. Tetra seems like a cool idea, but I don’t think we were necessarily interested in a second Zelda at the time. The most feasible time to add someone who is not a Triforce wielder seems to be For, but our priorities seemed to focus on unrepresented franchises.
Metroid: A more unique Dark Samus is nice, and while she is nice to have, Zero Suit Samus isn’t too large of a loss.
Kirby: Bandana Waddle Dee is something that I could take or leave pre-SSB6, but he’s nice to have.
Star Fox: I don’t have a preference for Krystal or Wolf, but this scenario is what would’ve happened if time constraints permitted.
Pokemon: I’m not attached to Meowth, but I understand its value as a character. I like Jigglypuff, but it’s probably one of the
least significant losses in retrospect, and we had Wario fill its void as the SSB64 semi-clone. May over Red isn’t what I would have done, but I gladly welcome it. Charizard is probably the biggest loss, but don’t really miss it that much, which is pretty controversial. I feel like Alola would have been stuck with a starter, but Mimickyu would be a cool fighter.
Earthbound: Rip Lucas.
F-Zero: This is the case where Black Shadow taking the clone Ganondorf moveset doesn’t feel really forced.
Fire Emblem: The lineup works surprisingly well. Promoting Binding Blade would have felt like a bigger priority at the time of Melee, but I like Celica more as a character, so I’m happy with the decision. Lyn as a faster Marth semi-clone actually works pretty well, and she is incredibly popular. The promotional character in SSBFor was going to be messy in retrospect, and Inkling works here instead of Corrin. Lucina was a case of I could take or leave her.
Kid Icarus: The lineup is fine.
Pikmin: Alph’s promotion is nice to see.
Animal Crossing: I don’t have much to say here as this is what we actually got.
Splatoon: I probably would have held off on Octoling for the moment, but she makes a lot of sense all things considered.
Single character Nintendo franchises not listed above: Game & Watch, Punch Out, Wii/Mii, and Xenoblade were going to obviously come at some point. Wii Fit and Gyromite are still nice to see here. It is also cool to see Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Murasame Castle get a fighter in this scenario. I would’ve still vouched for Ice Climbers to stay for their gameplay, but I understand their absence. Inguess Duck Hunt might sting a little too for some.
Third party: There’s a bigger focus on platforming third parties, but Rayman feels like he’d fit well into the game, and Banjo was requested.

Spoiler: Game Rosters

64: The biggest thing that I would’ve changed here is the omission of Donkey Kong.
Melee: In retrospect, I think we played it too safe here with unique newcomers even if it’s important to build up a core cast. The only truly unpredictable choice here is Mr. Game & Watch looking back. Like Louie G. suggested before, maybe we could have held off with Yoshi until Brawl.
Brawl: We played it mostly safe here, but Ridley is a valuable addition, and I liked the additions of May, Lyn, Isaac, and Krystal a lot. Also, Dark Samus fits in well with the Brawl timeline.
For: I think this one was probably the most interesting to work with, and we added some fun, unconventional choices to the roster in the form of R.O.B., Takamaru, and Yuka. There’s really not much I’d change here as Ice Climbers can’t be supported on the 3DS, and Sheik’s ship sailed.
Ultimate: It’s a solid roster, and I don’t really have anything else to say.

Spoiler: DLC Hopes/Predictions

I’m happy that we decided to keep Sora in as a DLC fighter like in the real timeline. In terms of realistic characters, Byleth and Aegis are my most wanted choices. I honestly don’t know what to expect for the DLC. I liked the lineup that we had, but there are a handful of characters that I could honestly make this lineup like Dante, Crash, Eggman, Shante, Sans, and a Breath of the Wild character.

Fighter’s Pass Question: Should we add one character at a time, or should we make a list of five fighters that we want, and then the top five fighters from each job join the DLC pass? This is mostly because we don’t have jobs in between the fighters.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Fighters Pass: I’d say we just have one job per fighters pass. However…

• Fighters Passes will be mandated to have one-two Nintendo characters (depending what happened to Plant’s slot). The highest voted Nintendo characters would be added.
  

 

[Pupp135]

Based on the suggestion above, I’ll we’ll submit one DLC fighter at a time.

Job 57: Submit a Bonus DLC Fighter.

I thought the idea of a mook was ingenious, and Goomba is arguably the most notable Mario mook. I entertained Piranha Plant, but I think Goomba would be less negatively received.

Also, feel free to state your opinions on the Base Ultimate roster and the series roster so far.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Job 57: Guardian (LOZ: Breath of the Wild)

I wanted an addition in the same vain as Piranha Plant. And we haven’t really given Zelda a whole lot.

DLC hopes:
Pyra + Mythra. Both of them. They have really got to be in during DLC. I’d like to bump them up to FP1 if possible.

Alongside that, something ARMS ought to join. It doesn’t have to be Min Min.

Byleth also should get in. Delayed to FP2, hopefully.

Kazuya also ought to join. But no more DK characters. 5 is more than enough.

 

[nirvanafan]

Pyra

Know Xenoblade 2 is really new at this point but feel like series grew enough & has enough material to plan a fighter earlier (similar to certain Pokemon). That being said the timing & this being a bonus fighter would likely prevent from also joining.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Job 57: Ashley (Warioware Inc.)

it's for have a Wario rep

 

[Northsouthmap]

Spring Man
He is the main character of ARMS who got turned into an assist trophy for real Ultimate.

 

[Masked Borb]

Job 57:
How about Jigglypuff?

Remembered as that one gag character in the anime, Jiggs & Plant are both considered "JoKe ChArAcTeRs!!!!!11!!". But, hear me out, think of all the newer things it could bring as an Ultimate newcomer instead of being a character perpetually stuck in the late 90's/Early 2000's? Fairy typing, more voice-based moves, maybe even Dynamaxing for its Final Smash as a tease for Sword & Shield? If Luigi was able to get away with it, I think Jiggs could too.

 

[Louie G.]

Job 57: Bulborb

I've suggested this in another roster building thread, but I still believe in the idea. Here is an opportunity to do a Piranha Plant esque surprise again, but with a character who frankly feels a lot more significant within their own series. The Bulborb represents nature and the circle of life, they along with other natural threats are the "antagonist" of the Pikmin series - more significant than any other generic enemy type is to their respective series, aside from maybe the Waddle Dee (who in a roundabout way is already playable). And I think Pikmin could justify a new character if they wanted.

If you're unconvinced of its potential, I'd check out this wonderful moveset. I think they'd be a lot of fun. Having no arms would definitely make them an interesting character to try and pull off as well, I think we could use a few more weirdo body type characters.

Otherwise, I am so down to support the Guardian. It's between these two for me.

Also, feel free to state your opinions on the Base Ultimate roster and the series roster so far.

Honestly I'm a bit checked out from this thread, but our end result isn't too bad. I like the addition of Mimikyu, it's nice to have Waluigi here and K. Rool was an obvious must-have. Bandana Dee is fine, I understand why he's here and I prefer him to be added in Ultimate over Smash 4.

I think we could have done better by Zelda, we ran into the same problem that the real Smash did and we don't even have Sheik to compensate. And frankly I'm a little bit bothered by Banjo & Kazooie making the base roster, instead of being regulated to DLC. We had done a good job more or less staying "in the lines" with the foundation of each Smash game but adding two third parties to base roster (one of which is a western character) kind of breaks the illusion for me into unrealistic territory. I know it's petty but I wish we took the opportunity to slot in just one more first party character instead. We could have squeeze in a retro character, or a new Zelda character, or whatever. It wouldn't have been the end of the world to let Banjo wait for DLC like Sora had to.

Otherwise, I dunno. I don't think we have too many glaring omissions, we were able to tackle some of the unrepresented series that Smash missed out on like Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven and Murasame Castle. Perhaps we could have taken a few more risks but Smash 4 and especially Brawl was able to add in some weirdos. On the whole this roster has a pretty unique identity and I appreciate it. Charizard is probably the most glaring absence but truth be told, I don't care that much if he's here or not because I never found him that compelling gameplay-wise. It just feels like the most notable oversight.

 

[darkvortex]

Metroid
Iconic enemy. I think this fills a similar role to Plant as something instantly recognisable that most people would not consider as a character. It would float around and could attach itself to fighters. It can bite and drain goes and we could have it transform into other forms

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the nominations
Pupp135 Goomba
BritishGuy54 Guardian
nirvanafan Pyra
DragonRobotKing26 Ashley
Northsouthmap Spring Man
Masked Borb Jigglypuff
Louie G. Bulborb
D darkvortex Metroid

Vote for your three most wanted, where yours is not first.

1. Jigglypuff
2. Guardian
3. Goomba

My opinions for Goomba still hold for Guardian, and it promotes Breath of the Wild. I like Jigglypuff as a pokemon, so that’s why it’s first here. I’m fine holding off on ARMS until the fighter’s passes, and I think Pyra works better with Mythra.

 

[nirvanafan]

1 Bulborb
2 Pyra
3 Spring Man

 

[Masked Borb]

1. I pick... GOOOOOOMBAAA - The first enemy from the first level of the first Super Mario game. So many unsuspecting players lost so many lives to this thing. If we were really scraping the bottom of the barrel for Mario characters down the line in our reality, I wouldn't mind the little goober.
2. Jigglypuff - Like I said earlier, the moveset potential it has at this point in time is astronomical. Also works as one of those "WTF/Teehee" picks most of these games has.
3. Ashley - I just think she's neat, and gives someone else that Wario series emblem.

 

[BritishGuy54]

1. Bulborb
2. Guardian
3. Spring Man

 

[darkvortex]

1. Bulborb
2. Guardian
3. Goomba

 

[Louie G.]

1. Guardian - I've always loved this idea and I'm happy to see it brought up here. I'm of the belief that Smash could do with a few more weirdo characters like this one, and that's going to be pretty consistent across all my choices here because Piranha Plant's most compelling trait was their distinct body type. Guardian crawls around like a spider and those extended legs would make for such an interesting approach to combat. As someone who supports Metroid Dread's EMMI for Smash, I think this is spiritually similar in the way it can install fear in your opponent and moves in such a unique way. Also, I think we really owe Zelda something new... for as much as we criticize Smash for neglecting Zelda, we failed it in the exact same way.

2. Bulborb - My nomination, and I already spoke on why I really like this idea. We already added Alph, but I think Pikmin could sustain a second unique newcomer well enough. And the Bulborb is just a silly little thing with a surprising amount of fun moveset potential. They are silently one of my most wanted first party characters.

3. Metroid - Definitely a weird one, and I don't even know quite how it would work, but I got pretty into the idea of Nihilego a couple rounds back and this is tapping into a similar essence. I just like the idea of a character who can latch themselves onto their opponent in some way, a grappler (?) that can drain health. Feels like maybe the least realizable of these three, but I still admire the idea.

I also figure I should share my thoughts on Goomba, who admittedly just doesn't interest me that much. If we're going to do a Mario enemy I'd prefer it just to be Piranha Plant again. Plant works so well because their body type guides nearly everything they do, they're very crafty like that. Its stem allows them to swing their head around like a wrecking ball. Its pot allows it to dunk opponents into the nether. A Goomba has none of this, which kind of makes it funny in its own right, but not nearly as compelling gameplay-wise as several of these choices. Sure, you can make a competent enough Goomba moveset. But I'm personally not in favor of having them just whip out props and hats instead of more organically building off the character essence. So I dunno, not that into it.

As for the other choices... ARMS and Xenoblade 2 can get their chance later. Jigglypuff feels very random at this point, as much as I enjoy its presence in our universe's Smash, and Ashley is fine? But doesn't feel like a good use of this particular slot, where I'd sooner advocate for something really unorthodox and silly.

 

[Northsouthmap]

1. Guardian
2. Metroid
3. Bulborb

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

Guardian
Goomba
Bulborb

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the votes:

Goomba 7
Guardian 15
Pyra 2
Ashley 1
Spring Man 2
Jigglypuff 5
Bulborb 13
Metroid 3

Guardian is our bonus DLC fighter.

Job 58: Submit a DLC Fighter:



I’ll nominate Terry here because of Fatal Fury’s influence for fighting games, and opening the fighter’s pass with a new third party company seems like a neat idea.

 

[Qwerty UIOP]

Job 58: Hero(Dragon Quest)

Submitting them due to Dragon Quest's influence on RPGs

 

[nirvanafan]

Ryu Hayabusa

Still is an odd exclusion to me with series having a big presence in multiple eras & the number of times Nintendo has collaborated with Koei Tecmo.

 

[Northsouthmap]

Steve (MineCraft)
This was huge when he was revealed, so I say we keep him for our alternate DLC.