SmashBoards Letter to SSB4 Development team.

[satowolf]

Some (small) tourneys have actually banned Sheik, Jiggz and Fox iirc.
but it's not as common. Also MK isn't banned (anymore). The T.O. can decide whether to ban a character or not.

 

[Vkrm]

A lot the balance issues in melee have nothing to do with fox. It's that ****ing gypsie sheik and her her d throw. Everyone she can't cg to kill percent she can tech chase indefinitely.

 

[jigglover]

.................uh




Well played sir.

Anyway...
At the end of the day, Brawl has 2 un-balanced characters, (meta-knight and Zelda(not Sheik, just Zelda)) and Melee three (Jiggs, Fox and Sheik).

 

[Powerstars]

On the subject of characters, I think the letter should mention this poll (http://vgtribune.com/smash-poll-2012-finals/) and say that, to be fair to American and European fans, that the dev team should consider adding Skull Kid and licensing Mega Man for the game. Who knows? Maybe have NOA hold a poll?

 

[N3ON]

On the subject of characters, I think the letter should mention this poll (http://vgtribune.com/smash-poll-2012-finals/) and say that, to be fair to American and European fans, that the dev team should consider adding Skull Kid and licensing Mega Man for the game. Who knows? Maybe have NOA hold a poll?

Firstly, Skull Kid didn't win legitimately. He came in first due to bots, so it isn't a fair representation of what NA/Europe/Australia really wants. Secondly, even though that was tweeted to Sakurai multiple times, he hasn't shown that he's acknowledged it, and even if he was aware of it, I doubt he would take it seriously. Third, it is very possible that Sakurai already decided the roster before Skull Kid won, and I doubt he would go to the effort of adding a character like him after the main roster was finalized. Only characters like Sonic/Megaman/another extremely (legitimately) popular character would cause him to do that. But in regards to Megaman, it's not just outside of Japan that wants him. In fact, he has even greater popularity inside Japan, and Sakurai is most likely fully aware of his popularity.

 

[Powerstars]

Firstly, Skull Kid didn't win legitimately. He came in first due to bots, so it isn't a fair representation of what NA/Europe/Australia really wants. Secondly, even though that was tweeted to Sakurai multiple times, he hasn't shown that he's acknowledged it, and even if he was aware of it, I doubt he would take it seriously. Third, it is very possible that Sakurai already decided the roster before Skull Kid won, and I doubt he would go to the effort of adding a character like him after the main roster was finalized. Only characters like Sonic/Megaman/another extremely (legitimately) popular character would cause him to do that. But in regards to Megaman, it's not just outside of Japan that wants him. In fact, he has even greater popularity inside Japan, and Sakurai is most likely fully aware of his popularity.

True, and I believe I heard Sakurai mention that he was interested in Capcom characters, so good ol' Rock is probably gonna be in thar.

 

[~automatic]

Can someone please explain to me why everyone following next gen Smash is fanatical about polls?

They don't do anything but get fanboys salty as ****.

 

[N3ON]

Because people think that polls will actually influence Sakurai's decision on roster inclusions alot more than it actually does.

IIRC Sakurai already had the entire Brawl roster (other than Sonic and perhaps Wolf) figured out before the poll was made, and all that poll really did was solidify Sonic's popularity. Considering at this point in development a poll would be pretty unhelpful to Sakurai (as he's probably got most/all of the roster decided), there's not much point in suggesting one anymore.

I guess it's also because it makes the fanboys think they've contributed to the roster, when it fact it's just Sakurai picking them by himself (or mostly by himself) like usual. He just makes good choices overall, and they usually correspond to who is high on the polls (with obviously a few exceptions and omissions), so people think that polls actually matter more than they do.

 

[Vkrm]

Jigglover, a game with alot broken chars is more balanced than a game with 1 or 2. Mk is super broken in brawl. In melee fox, falco, shiek, jiggs, peach, Marth and cf are all touney viable. Not to mention with guys like shroomed and axe are playing lower ranked characters and they can still win. Also isn't Zelda poop tier brawl? This ***** trolling.

 

[Black Mantis]

Apparently, you've never heard of the doubles God in Brawl (who is dominating singles with a low tier)?

 

[Vkrm]

Apparently, you've never heard of the doubles God in Brawl (who is dominating singles with a low tier)?

I haven't. Please do tell.

 

[Black Mantis]

Mekos Lucas

That is all.

 

[Vkrm]

He's good. Real freakin good. Doesn't mean brawl is balanced though. If mekos played metaknight he'd be a top player. Compare that with vman and lake who ARE top players with their low tier mains.

 

[Black Mantis]

and he's not a top player?

low tier heroes are in every game.

 

[Vkrm]

There are more in melee I think.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Brawl's community being wrong about Lucas's placement doesn't make the game any more balanced.

 

[Vkrm]

Sounds like because meta knight is so op most competitive players skip over the metagame of the other chars which leaves them underdeveloped. In melee, shiek was number 1 for a long time until Ken starting dominating tourneys. Then fox was the best cause of pc, after that people were talking about jiggs and peach being top tier. The chars that are bad are really bad in melee but there are fewer of them. I think melee's more balanced but maybe that's because of the smaller roster I honestly don't know.

 

[MR. K]

Anyway...
At the end of the day, Brawl has 2 un-balanced characters, (meta-knight and Zelda(not Sheik, just Zelda)) and Melee three (Jiggs, Fox and Sheik).

lolwut?


hold wait what? please tell me you mean unbalanced as in absolute garbage, please don't tell me you honestly struggle against a crappy character like zelda?


you do realize she's right there with ganondork and link at the bottom of brawls tier list right? that her lol projectile Dins fire is so freaking easy to avoid its not funny, and she has like zero approach options as well as no way to force someone to approach her to use her defensive game.

 

[satowolf]

Everytime I see a post from Vkrm I just wanna take a drink.

In my opinion no game is actually balanced. There is always going to be that ONE character that screws everyone over (ex. Akuma-SF2, Tekkaman Blade-TvC, Wekser-UMvC *shudder*) Heck...just look at MvC2. That game has over 50+ characters and the only characters viable for tourney play iirc would be Sentinal, Doc.Doom, Storm (just to name a few).

Just because "WELL...MAYLAY HAS 4 CHARACTERS THAT ARE "BROKEN"AND BRUHL HAS ONE" doesn't make it more balanced. It's just "HEY IMMA USE ONE OF THE 4-5 CHARACTERS TO WIN MONEY! AND PLAY MY LOW/MID TIER CHARACTER FOR FUNZ"

Now excuse me while I go drink.

 

[MR. K]

actually there are plenty of games that are balanced


and for the most part melee is more balanced then brawl.


yes there will always be one character who is shown to be better than the rest.

but its to *what* degree they are better.

none of melee's top tiers truly **** on the entire cast as hard as metaknight in brawl or akuma(definitely akuma..) in SF2tubo does in their games.


besides, SF1 actually was perfectly balanced in its multiplayer with its two only characters

 

[satowolf]

That's it.
Mr. K we're throwing a SF1 Tourney.

 

[MR. K]

ok
after all there are only two characters and both are identical so no johns can be made.

 

[Vkrm]

Just because "WELL...MAYLAY HAS 4 CHARACTERS THAT ARE "BROKEN"AND BRUHL HAS ONE" doesn't make it more balanced.

......yes it does...... Beside that even if Brawl was more balanced it'd inferior to melee in other ways. Sf 1 is a pefect example, it's perfectly balanced, but the core gamplay sucks.

 

[satowolf]

To be honest, if this continues as a Melee =/= Brawl thing then might as well close the thread. In conclusion, I like all smash games and I don't want another Brawl or Melee but a New Smash game with some new and old elements.

 

[Vkrm]

You're right, they should do something new with smash 4. We can agree on that. I just think that should take more features from melee then what they take from brawl. I still think the more skilled player should win 90% of the time, if not with l canceling and wd then with something else.

 

[Big-Cat]

We all know that Smash 4 will be going in a new direction, using Brawl as a base - likely to save resources.

With that in mind, we really should be less conservative on ideas or at least be open to them, including revamps of mechanics and characters. I'm eagerly awaiting to see what Bamco will bring to the table.

 

[Vkrm]

All the characters are going to be muscular with masculine facial features. And have pointy hair. Like tekken.

 

[~automatic]

I can't wait to see Game n' Watch's concept art.

EDIT: Jigglypuff's art is going to be pretty hype too.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Zelda un-balanced

Zelda ? Unbalanced ? [insert uncontrollable laughter here] No.
I mean, if by unbalanced you mean ****, then yes.

I can't wait to see Game n' Watch's concept art.

Jigglypuff's art is going to be pretty hype too.

Psh, Kirby's where it's at !

 

[Vkrm]

I hope they make the online as good as sf4's.I mean it is laggy, but it's cool how easy it is to share and save replays. I really want smash 4 to come with all the features of mordern gaming like leadersboards and stuff. Voice chat is unlikely though because how sakurai wants to avoid Internet bullying. A lot of why I like smash us because how friendly the community is and I'm pretty sure that bullying prob won't be an issue.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I could not really care less if there is an online mode in this game at all; I'd rather just have a good offline game over a ****ty online one. If it were to come down to a development time focused on either the main gameplay or a seamless online.

 

[Blad01]

I could not really care less if there is an online mode in this game at all; I'd rather just have a good offline game over a ****ty online one. If it were to come down to a development time focused on either the main gameplay or a seamless online.

Yeah now that I think about it, I really don't care about the online either...

But if it's added as a "bonus", at least make it the best possible for people who care.

 

[Powerstars]

Yeah now that I think about it, I really don't care about the online either...

But if it's added as a "bonus", at least make it the best possible for people who care.

Yeah. I didn't care much to use Brawl's online, but I'd like to have a few matches on it.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Online is pretty much a must for Smash Bros now, if that ever gets scrapped Nintendo will just recieve major complaints. Perhaps even lose costumers. Some people bought Brawl just for the online, no kidding. But as for me, i still want online, but at the same time i don't want that to be the main focus of the development. I want a game with much more variety.

 

[Big-Cat]

I can't link to it right now, but go look up World Tekken Federation. By far, combined with supposedly excellent net code, this has got to be the best I've seen in online content for a fighting game ever. You've got player cards with a variety of stats that I'll let you see for yourself. I thought Capcom had left a standard, but Namco has gone beyond the standard.

 

[~automatic]

World Tekken Federation

lol, WTF.

 

[Big-Cat]

Lol I know. And it's not the first thing to use that acronym. There's also the World Tae Kwon Do Federation.

 

[~automatic]

There's also the World Tae Kwon Do Federation.

Yeah, I saw that one during the Olympics.

 

[Muz]

Things we can ALL agree on

Here are some things I think most everybody would agree on: [edited with more ideas]

1)More game options

-option to turn tripping on/off (or take it out altogether)
-option to turn other mechanics on/off
-option to change game speed
-option to turn off stage hazards
-options to turn off exploding crates, barrels, pills, etc.
-option to control exactly which pokemon/assist trophies can show up in a match
-option to turn off the "dud" hammers
-option to make it so that before an item actually appears on screen and is grab-able, a dotted outline appears where it will be on the screen for 3 seconds or some settable time​

2)The options should save correctly from the last setting when you restart your console, or go online (ie: remember I want 3-stock matches by default)

3)more character costumes and/or colors

4)The ability to record longer matches (without having a hack)

5)Being able to cut and slice a clip from a recorded match to share with friends

6)More stages with less gimmicks

7)Better stage builder

-smaller pieces
-more varied pieces (ex: curved pieces, different thickness, more angles, moving platforms, etc)​

8)Hit bubbles that better match character animations more closely (looking at snake's uptilt for example)

9)more customization in game controller settings (for example with the d-pad, or specific c-stick directions)

10)Better online experience (but not at the expense of regular gameplay)

-better way to communicate with friends (possibly voice, or in game messaging with a keyboard instead of a cellphone dialpad, or chat rooms)
-some different stage choices in the "registering opponents" room with the sandbag (or at least more varied music)
-allow stock games in "with anyone" / "basic brawl" matches
-allow "no items" games in "with anyone" / "basic brawl" matches
-allow "1v1" games in "with anyone" / "basic brawl" matches
-option in "with anyone" to play against online people with green connections or better
-some type of game lobby, where you can meet and chat with people, and where you can see a list of available public game rooms with their respective game settings
-allow for "use map settings" matches, like Starcraft or Warcraft, where you can define your own rules and custom stage
-make it easier to exchange friend codes in general
-ability to exchange friend codes with people you meet in "with anyone" matches
-allow for a MUCH longer list of friends
-allow option to spectate friends matches only instead of strangers, and spectating of live matches (maybe with voice commentating)
-when spectating, ability to queue up to be the next to join in play in an already full room.
-allow a "quick rematch" option at the end of an online match, where if all players agree, the next game will start immediately with the same characters/settings, and a random stage that is turned on between the players
-better connectivity/lag
-clearer error messages when there are connectivity issues
-a built in ranking system would be cool (but probably meaningless for the most part), with ranked and non-ranked matches
-option to turn off cpu's joining in "with anyone" matches​

11)better character balance (tough to accomplish)

-remove infinite/chain grabs (this may be disputed, but at least reduce the efficacy or damage)
-give larger/slow characters some type of advantage (like they can grab and hold small opponents for longer, whereas small characters would release large opponents quickly)
-characters with lots of moves that are both high reward and low risk, should be easier to kill
-fix grab release on Lucas and Ness
-if all else fails, fix balance and glitches with downloadable patches after game release (even the best and well tested games get patched)​

12)Do not put too much resources or time into "fun" 1-player things, that may take away from the multiplayer game quality.

13)Preload the transformation characters

 

[Vkrm]

All I want from smash 4 is what I got from melee, and that's versatility. Let it be both a skill based dance where two skilled can fight to determine who's better, and a fun party game with a bunch of characters, items, and a crap ton of chaos. In all my time in melee I have not seen one convincing argument for the removal of the advanced techs. Anyone asking for ssb4 not to have competitive elements are also asking nintendo for an inferior game. Both melee and brawl are great party games but a party game is not all that melee is. it's so much more...