SmashBoards Letter to SSB4 Development team.

[Blad01]

I have had this idea for a while, and I think it's time to make it happen. Let's write a letter signed "SmashBoards" adn send it to the SSB4 development team.

The Goal : Making sure that our voices are heard by the development team. Sakurai has done a very good job with the Smash series, but we all know that he considers it more as a "fun party game" than a "serious competitive fighting game". But seing how the competitive scene has managed to live all these years playing Smash games, I think he's partially wrong : Smash is (and should be) both a fun party game and a serious competitive fighting game. Let's make sure the development team does not forget the second part.

The Details : First, let's make a list of overall & precise suggestions to make the game better regarding its competitivness without altering its party-game aspect. This is important if we want to be seriously considered.

Let me propose some suggestions that I think everyone can agree with. If you don't, let me know :
- Make random tripping removable in the options
- Make sure the controls are (at least) as much in depth as they are in Melee & Brawl with the GC Controller
- Improve the online & set up a ranking system. There would be two options : "Unranked match" (for fun games) & "Ranked matches" (for serious ones).
- Make the roster (way) more balanced.
(- Keep ut the good work with everything else !)

Conclusion : When we have a list of suggestions all competitive players (and the BBR) can agree on, I will make a poll to make sure we all agree, and send the letter. Maybe I will need an English rereader and a Japanese translator to make sure the letter is easy to read.

 

[jigglover]

I love this idea, but we won't be able to agree on much, especially the characters. It seems that you will have to bring up different matters for voting and just go with the majority, but anyway...
I did a vote about whether there should be dojo for SSB4 and the majority says that there should, so if you want to use that then you're welcome.

 

[Blad01]

I love this idea, but we won't be able to agree on much, especially the characters. It seems that you will have to bring up different matters for voting and just go with the majority, but anyway...
I did a vote about whether there should be dojo for SSB4 and the majority says that there should, so if you want to use that then you're welcome.

You're right, but I think we can have a large majority on some points, like making the random tripping an option. Who would disagree with that ?

As far as characters/stages suggestions are concerned, I was not going to include them, considering they're more fan oriented then competitive oriented (sometimes it's the same orientation, I know ) & we are going to have a hard time agreeing on them. But if I have to include them, I will probably mention the top 3 suggestions while refering to the poll thread.

 

[jigglover]

You're right, but I think we can have a large majority on some points, like making the random tripping an option. Who would disagree with that ?

As far as characters/stages suggestions are concerned, I was not going to include them, considering they're more fan oriented then competitive oriented (sometimes it's the same orientation, I know ) & we are going to have a hard time agreeing on them. But if I have to include them, I will probably mention the top 3 suggestions while refering to the poll thread.

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Good points. I hope your letter is a success! Each day you would have to raise a different thing like random tripping one day, and ways to include the Wii U controller another.

 

[Deleted member]

The idea is nice, but this is going to take a lot of organization if this is to go anywhere and needs to be SERIOUSLY thought out. Then you'll need a ton of support from people here. So far, similar efforts have failed.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I'm somewhat in.
When we've gathered enough people I guess I could make a post with some ideas for the character balancing or i.e.

 

[flyinfilipino]

For starters, why bother making "random tripping" an option? Just take it out!

 

[N3ON]

I think if people want to do this properly it will be a HUGE undertaking, and even in the end we won't reach general consensus. Plus it's full of good intentions, but I'm not sure how much of an impact it will actually make to development TBH.

Good luck getting this off the ground though, and if there is actually some serious development made into this, I'd be happy to share my opinions, for whatever they are worth.

But I think what flyinfilipino said is the most important point to get across.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Send it how? like Via Twitter? because I doubt they'll take you serious if you tweet them. Or an actual Letter mailed to them? or Possibly an Email which I'm sure they get thousands of...

It's gonna be very difficult grabbing their attention, especially if this letter thing isn't taken seriously, you just can't go around telling people what you want & expect to get it, know what I mean?
So best of luck, but ehhh

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I agree with what most people said concerning organization and support. In order to get this letter off from the ground and into Sakurai's hands, you are going to not only make the letter professional and authentic so he takes notice. I imagine Sakurai and his team receives a massive amounts of fan letters from both Western and Japanese audiences. You need to figure out how to make your letter stand out as opposed to the other ones. Simply adding "Smashboards" won't do that. Sakurai may be aware of these forums but I highly doubt he has ever visited or looked at them thoroughly.

Additionally, you will also have to translate the letter into Japanese. By translating it into Japanese, the letter will grab Sakurai's attention since "Wow! It's a foreign letter in Japanese!" It goes to show that the group when the extra effort to write a letter Sakurai will understand. It will also have to be perfect and fluent Japanese that utilizes "keigo'. Basically a professional and honorific way of addressing someone above your status. Maybe going through Smash boards to find Japanese speakers or doing a google search might yield results.

Finally, you will need the cooperation of people who are interested in sending out the letter. If you intend to add "Smashboards" to the letter, the mods and admins will all have to be on board with this since the group will be using "Smashboards" as their moniker. I suggest bringing this to the admin team and asking if they will endorse it or not. If they refuse to endorse it, you may be out of luck.

Regardless, good luck!!

 

[Oasis_S]

The Goal : Making sure that our voices are heard by the development team. Sakurai has done a very good job with the Smash series, but we all know that he considers it more as a "fun party game" than a "serious competitive fighting game".

Sakurai: *throws letter in trash.*

 

[lordvaati]

I have had this idea for a while, and I think it's time to make it happen. Let's write a letter signed "SmashBoards" adn send it to the SSB4 development team.

The Goal : Making sure that our voices are heard by the development team. Sakurai has done a very good job with the Smash series, but we all know that he considers it more as a "fun party game" than a "serious competitive fighting game". But seing how the competitive scene has managed to live all these years playing Smash games, I think he's partially wrong : Smash is (and should be) both a fun party game and a serious competitive fighting game. Let's make sure the development team does not forget the second part.

The Details : First, let's make a list of overall & precise suggestions to make the game better regarding its competitivness without altering its party-game aspect. This is important if we want to be seriously considered.

Let me propose some suggestions that I think everyone can agree with. If you don't, let me know :
- Make random tripping removable in the options
- Make sure the controls are (at least) as much in depth as they are in Melee & Brawl with the GC Controller
- Improve the online & set up a ranking system. There would be two options : "Unranked match" (for fun games) & "Ranked matches" (for serious ones).
- Make the roster (way) more balanced.
(- Keep ut the good work with everything else !)

Conclusion : When we have a list of suggestions all competitive players (and the BBR) can agree on, I will make a poll to make sure we all agree, and send the letter. Maybe I will need an English rereader and a Japanese translator to make sure the letter is easy to read.

-just get rid of it altogether. except for moveset tripping like the naners, those are fine.

-.....as far as we know, we cannot(officially) use GC controllers.

-agree. though as like, every game released after Brawl shows, it will not be a laggy mess anymore.

-Sakurai said he plans on doing that.

-agree. also Boss rush mode was awesome and my favorite new mode in Brawl. I just wished we got more nintendo villains instead of the custom subspace soldiers(though Tabuu was legit).

 

[SmashChu]

It's a novel idea, and I wish you luck. The problem I think is that Sakurai is trying to make this for everyone and not for the competitive community. It's not that Sakurai doesn't listen, he does. Its just that he has to listen to everyone. Since Smashboards and everyone else's opinion differs so greatly, he has to side with the larger majority on a lot of things.

Either way, if you pull it off, great.

 

[Opossum]

This is going to take tons of work and motivation if you want it to work. Similar grassroots movements from here come to mind, but ultimately failed. (Anyone remember Project PCAM? That was pretty early on in the old thread...)

 

[Yitsul]

Have Takashi Nagasako voice donkey kong instead of lion roars

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I dunno! If Donkey Kong talks he would probably sound like G1 Grimlock: http://youtu.be/6R1m9fjdwjI

 

[DakotaBonez]

Page 2 and no progress made. Let's begin...


Dear Sakurai-sama,


...

 

[FrenchToasts]

add lcanceling, remove infinite airdodges. bring back hitstun and combos... bring back melee

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

i think that tripping randomly should be removed, but i think giving certain characters attacks that will trip the opponent and setup a combo after it.

changing the next smash bros into melee 2.0 is a step backward. and i dont care what anyone says, l canceling and "advanced techniques" such as wavedashing were not meant to be in the game. I own the official nintendo players guide for melee, and it has a particular section on advanced techniques. none of these "advanced techniques" that many covet are included.

i would say speed up certain parts of the game so that all characters can pull off combos, not just a few, but keep some things slower so that the entire game isnt so fast that no one knows what they're doing

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wavedashing is glossed over in an issue of Nintendo Power, and L-canceling is legitimately included on purpose. How would you even accidentally put in something like that? Think about things before talking about them.

 

[MR. K]

Wavedashing is glossed over in an issue of Nintendo Power, and L-canceling is legitimately included on purpose. How would you even accidentally put in something like that? Think about things before talking about them.

^^^^^^^^^THIS

why don't you check the official archive for smash64 jones, it actually has L-cancelling(only back then originally known as "smooth landing" ) listed as an official advanced move.

seriously its been in the games sine smash64, there was no need to remove it in brawl.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Wavedashing was unintended behaviour as a result of directional airdodging that they liked and left in.
L-Cancelling is very specifically coded into the game.

 

[~automatic]

I think if people want to do this properly it will be a HUGE undertaking, and even in the end we won't reach general consensus. Plus it's full of good intentions, but I'm not sure how much of an impact it will actually make to development TBH.

Good luck getting this off the ground though, and if there is actually some serious development made into this, I'd be happy to share my opinions, for whatever they are worth.

But I think what flyinfilipino said is the most important point to get across.

This. There are so many different things people want which makes it virtually impossible to have a list of petitions which speak for all.

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that Sakurai is a game design genius and (other than adding tripping) he knows what to do in his development cycles.

 

[Vkrm]

I want manual L canceling, I don't want auto sweet spotting. I want dash dancing, don't want tripping. Would like moonwalking, but I wouldn't like infinite air dodges. I don't want melee2.0, I want greatness2.0. That is not what brawl was.

 

[Noble Six]

In my opinion, the two biggest things SSB4 needs are balanced characters and a lot better online system.

 

[Vkrm]

Well it doesnt really need anything. It'll be a commercial success based on name alone. Would be nice if it was as good as melee though.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

i never said they accidentally put it into the game, but look at when your character wavedashes. does that even LOOK like its supposed to be in the game? sure its not really a glitch, but its an exploit. even if they tested the game and missed it, that doesnt necessarily mean they accidentally put it in

i'll be honest i probably shouldve focused on wavedashing in my post because im not really familiar with l canceling. but in the videos i've seen of wavedashing, it doesnt appear to me that it was meant to be in there. if they made it look more like a legitimate technique and not like an exploit in the next smash bros, then i would agree to its inclusion. But to make the game melee 2.0 just to include it? i think its a step backward.

I apologize if i rustled anyones jimmies here, but until i see exactly how it is legitimate (like an article of something), i still will not see it as anything but an exploit with potential to be a real technique. But seriously, if you give me something to look at on it, i will take all of your words for it

 

[FrenchToasts]

wavedash doesnt really have much uses in melee anyway..

but they do need to add l-canceling back, its only removes 50% of the move delay, u can still get punished OoS or shieldgrabbed if u do the move to early. see how lcanceling introduces another very deep layer into the game

anyway lcanceling + more hitstun means that pple can chain combos together. whats point of a fighting game without combos??

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Something that we COULD do is tell Sakurai to look at Project M, lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

anyway lcanceling + more hitstun means that pple can chain combos together. whats point of a fighting game without combos??

More hitstun isn't necessary to combo. Less floatiness and removing the ability to cancel hitstun are, though.

I've said before, but hitstun canceling can still be included on like, heavy launch moves and it would still promote and encourage recovery and longevity (And by association, the ability to make mistakes to some degree, something humans you know, do), without hindering low-knockback juggles and strings. It would be as simple as a threshold to cancel hitstun based on the knockback of the move; after a launch velocity of, let's say, 5000 or 5500 mph (how tf Smash even came up with that as a unit is beyond me), you can then act out of the launch stun in order to start your recovery.

The game doesn't need to fall at 2 miles an hour, or have auto-snap ledges, or let you cancel hitstun on every move, or have you snap the ledge from 20 feet away, or let you grab the ledge backwards because you ****ed up and didn't recover properly, or increase DI potency dramatically, all just to make recovery an easier venture. Canceling only launch moves to start a recovery sooner and backwards grabbing at up-B apexes is more than enough in that regard.

 

[Vkrm]

Have you guys seen myth smashers? They pretty much proved that both L canceling and wavedashing were both intentional. I've also heard that when they began editing vbrawl with the plans to make brawl plus all the numerical values for l canceling were already built in and just not utilized.

 

[Blad01]

Page 2 and no progress made. Let's begin...


Dear Sakurai-sama,


...

Well I think everything is basically in the first post. Everything else divides players. We're not going to ask for Wavedash back -_-

 

[~automatic]

The one thing everyone can truly agree on is no tripping.

 

[Blad01]

The one thing everyone can truly agree on is no tripping.

And balanced roster.
And better online.
And better competitive treatment. (Online ranking for example)

 

[mantlecore77]

have takashi nagasako voice donkey kong instead of lion roars

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[~automatic]

And balanced roster.
And better online.
And better competitive treatment. (Online ranking for example)

I've kinda given up my hopes of having a balanced roster in a competitive 1v1 environment as we know it. Some characters are clearly made to excel in free for alls with items and **** like that and those characters generally don't do too well in competition. Some of Namco's staff with fighter experience can probably improve balance but Sakurai will always have the last word on everything. A balanced roster would be cool but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I don't really care about online gameplay but I definitely see improved online coming. The WiiU presentation before E3 showed off some cool things the WiiU can do with it's connectivity which shows Nintendo is finally keeping up with trends. The Wii's bad online wasn't Sakurai's fault. The way Nintendo approached online gameplay was a product of their folly due to a lack of experience in the field and the Wii's inferior hardware and connection options.

Online rankings don't matter to me. Dios-X dominates the XBL uMVC3 leaderboards but can't make it past top 32 in large competition (this year's EVO for example) and PSN's best player hardly made it out of pools. Besides, Sakurai doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings by reminding these people they're not the best at Smash, lol.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

If this is going to be a cohesive letter from "Smashboards" then you need to write up a rough draft of the letter in the posts & then take bits & pieces of ideas from other posters & add or remove from the letter to compose a final draft of this letter with as much input you can get

 

[Zinnamon]

I believe if a letter is written in the name of SmashBoards is written then it should be written by the BR.
I'd include two things;
Tripping is a lazy fix to their problems.
Take as much time as you need to do the game, don't give us an early release date as last time.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Alot of people didn't notice some of the cool mechanics brawl introduced. Like being able to jump off of your opponents head or angle side tilt attacks downward.

EDIT: Wait diagonal tilts were also in melee...well at least you could swim in brawl I guess...

 

[Barbasol]

I would say that extraneous features like the trophy diorama, coin launcher, etc. were unnecessary, and would prefer those resources going into either expanding the roster or core game.

Also, either go all out with the stage builder or leave it out entirely. No half-measures here.