SmashBoards Letter to SSB4 Development team.

[~automatic]

Here are some things I think most everybody would agree on:

1)More game options
-option to turn tripping on/off

>implying people would play with tripping if given the chance.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Casual gamers find it hilarious, actually.

All I want from smash 4 is what I got from melee, and that's versatility. Let it be both a skill based dance where two skilled can fight to determine who's better, and a fun party game with a bunch of characters, items, and a crap ton of chaos. In all my time in melee I have not seen one convincing argument for the removal of the advanced techs. Anyone asking for ssb4 not to have competitive elements are also asking nintendo for an inferior game. Both melee and brawl are great party games but a party game is not all that melee is. it's so much more...

I'm also a scrub. I think the concept for SSB4 having game modes with different mechanics would be plossible. Like for instance, regular VS matches has Brawl physics. And you can unlock a mode named "Battle Royale For Super Players" or something and it contains Melee's physics, perhaps even more depth added to it. I think this would please everyone, i think... i know. idunno.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Casual gamers find it hilarious, actually.

Not from my experience. I don't think it's as universally reviled as it is here on Smashboards, but I don't think every casual fan is in love with it.

It's safe to say it's a divisive issue.

 

[N3ON]

Casual gamers find it hilarious, actually.

They might find it hilarious the first time it happens to someone else, but once you tripping causes you to be KO'd or something, nobody likes it, not even the casuals. None of the casuals I've played with (and most of the people I play against are casuals) have done anything but complain about it, and one of the most frequent questions I get is if it's possible to turn it off. Oh how I wish it was...

Anyway, like shinpichu said, tripping is pretty much universally reviled. As well it should be.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Sakurai is obviously aware, i wonder what drove him to even add the silly mechanic to begin with. I mean did the concept of seeing characters like Solid Snake tripping funny to him?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Anyway, like shinpichu said, tripping is pretty much universally reviled. As well it should be.

Did you read my whole post? My point was that among the casual community, there probably ISN'T a universal consensus. There are probably some who either like random tripping or don't mind it as much as we do.

Sakurai is obviously aware, i wonder what drove him to even add the silly mechanic to begin with. I mean did the concept of seeing characters like Solid Snake tripping funny to him?

The popular theories that I've heard are that it was included to prevent dash-dancing or to give an advantage to walking over dashing.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

The popular theories that I've heard are that it was included to prevent dash-dancing or to give an advantage to walking over dashing.

That's silly. It wouldn't suprise me if it was added to avoid the moonwalking technique also, but their dashes became "fixed" later anyway so it became obselete. They would be tripping backwards.

 

[N3ON]

Did you read my whole post? My point was that among the casual community, there probably ISN'T a universal consensus. There are probably some who either like random tripping or don't mind it as much as we do.

Lol I forgot to add "except even among the casuals" to the end of the sentence, my bad.

However, thinking about it, you're right, there are probably some people who just see it as a minor nuisance or barely notice it, but I'd wager that was the minority.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's silly. It wouldn't suprise me if it was added to avoid the moonwalking technique also, but their dashes became "fixed" later anyway so it became obselete. They would be tripping backwards.

A lot of stuff in Brawl was silly IMHO.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

A lot of stuff in Brawl was silly IMHO.

> Ganons running animation
> SSE
> Virtual Console demos ( F-Zero has lol40seconds)
> Stage Builder
> Meta Knight
> Classic Mode

Yep, Brawl is silly alright.

 

[Muz]

Here are some things I think most everybody would agree on:

1)More game options
-option to turn tripping on/off
-option to turn other mechanics on/off
-option to change game speed
-options to turn off exploding crates, barrels, pills, etc.
-option to control exactly which pokemon/assist trophies can show up in a match
-option to turn off the "dud" hammers
-option to make it so that before an item actually appears on screen and is grab-able, a dotted outline appears where it will be on the screen for 3 seconds or some settable time

Thank you NikoPunk and shinpichu. Yeah 99% of people hate it, but for some reason Sakurai added it. So thats why I listed it as an option for the next Smash. Just like you can play coin mode, but hardly anyone ever does lol. Or it may be turned on for one of the "use map settings" games I mentioned in the online improvement section.

Any thoughts on the rest of the "universal" points?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

> Ganons running animation
> SSE
> Virtual Console demos ( F-Zero has lol40seconds)
> Stage Builder NO. Stage Builder was a good idea, just not executed good.
> Meta Knight
> Classic Mode

Yep, Brawl is silly alright.

Don't forget Coin Launcher. And PT's forced swithcing/stamina mechanics. And Transformation characters not being pre-loaded, thus increasing transformation times.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I support the idea of the stage builder, but it just didn't live up to it's expectations in Brawl. I'm all in for a bigger and improved stage builder in the next game. Also, the Zelda/Sheik transformations in Brawl makes me cry.

 

[nessokman]

Remove chain grabbing.using it with falco is mainstream now. It is insanely cheap and if i recall, banned from tourneys.

 

[Kirbunny431]

While I love the idea of having various options, I don't think tripping would be missed by anyone, even those who don't mind it. Nobody's going to be playing SSB4 and suddenly say, "You know, I wish these characters would randomly trip like in Brawl. That was so awesome.

Also, Virtual Console demos were stupid. Incredibly so. Although I'm not sure if that was Sakurai's idea or not. Could've been some suit at Nintendo telling him to put them in the game as advertisement for the Virtual Console. Heck, even Sakurai's Dojo post about the Masterpieces seems forced.

I'm way off topic, and I havent even posted in the thread before. As many have said, it's a good idea, but tough to pull off. You'd also need to keep in mind that some features are most likely already decided.

 

[Luco]

Sakurai is obviously aware, i wonder what drove him to even add the silly mechanic to begin with. I mean did the concept of seeing characters like Solid Snake tripping funny to him?

Haha, even with other rumours, I wouldn't be surprised. Anyone remember the curry powder trophy? It says that it's particularly funny to watch samus or snake running around shooting fireballs out of their mouths. Someone has to have a sense of humour...

In all seriousness though, I can take tripping if it's not at a bad time. if I get punished for it (especially when it kills me), that's when I begin to feel the rage. I calm myself by telling myself that even tripping is part of the competitive aspect, it's all about who can capitalise on it the best when the opponent does it. That helps me. Not by much... but a bit.

Actually, I don't rage. I'm too placid and downright happy to rage!

But this idea is one i've thought of many, many times. At the moment my main hopes rest on Sakurai going to some expo or another that I happen to attend. Being a vet when it comes to SSB4 speculation (well, a year isn't much but it's enough to get the general idea) I know that if I got the chance to have my input heard i'd be speaking for all of smashboards and not just myself. Although... *blushes* I'd definitely suggest for the extra 10 frames on grab release animation for ness/Lucas to be removed and carved up in to little bits to be fed to the code monster that eats all bad code. >_>

 

[Aurane]

Actually, I don't rage. I'm too placid and downright happy to rage!

I've never seen you rage before, so it seems legit.

 

[Luco]

I've never seen you rage before, so it seems legit.

Yes, but you never saw me from january to spetember. Mwahahaha!

But yeah I don't rage. Not unless under extreme, extreme conditions. So far in my whole life I believe I have only ever become that angry... once. Maybe twice. I could definitely count it on one hand.

Oh, but i've done a 'fake' rage a few times when i'm wrestling with my brother or father. the real question is, have I truly over-powered them, or did they just let me escape? That's not the case anymore though, last time i went on a 'fake' rage, I realised that my brother was calling out in pain. It was okay though, we're thick as theives so it was more a source of amusement that I could overpower him rather than annoyance that I hurt him. Poor guy, i'm almost his height now. And he's eight years my senior too. :-o

Oh, and this is my 1999th post. What should my 2000th be about? Will my title change? Do i do it now or wait till I next get on? Oooh, the excitement! I've only ever been on two forums and because of the rather small community, my other one has only maybe 1300 posts or so. A lot for that community but this has my biggest post count for sure. :O

EDIT: 2000th post happened. guys, i'm a super champ!

 

[Aurane]

EDIT: 2000th post happened. guys, i'm a super champ!

Nice, Luco!

Though I'm younger in account age and have almost double the posts than you, good job anyways!

 

[Luco]

Yeah, but i'm not a spammer like you.

but in all seriousness it's a rather big achievement for me. :o

 

[Muz]

And Transformation characters not being pre-loaded, thus increasing transformation times.

I support the idea of the stage builder, but it just didn't live up to it's expectations in Brawl. I'm all in for a bigger and improved stage builder in the next game. Also, the Zelda/Sheik transformations in Brawl makes me cry.

Ah yeah, preloaded transformation characters is definitely a big improvement. And the stage builder is definitely a great concept just poorly executed in brawl.

I'd definitely suggest for the extra 10 frames on grab release animation for ness/Lucas to be removed and carved up in to little bits to be fed to the code monster that eats all bad code. >_>

Yep, the grab release on Ness and Lucas should definitely be fixed in the next game too or at least harder to capitalize on.

What do you guys think about the ability to spectate a live match online, without having to join the game and suicide off you stocks? May make managing an online tourney more simple, and easier to record matches.

 

[Vkrm]

How likely is it that smash 4 will have two different release dates? 1 for wiiu and a separate one for 3ds? Also wouldn't it be cool if they made one of the games for melee fans and one for brawlers?

 

[~automatic]

Yeah dude; it'd be totally cool if the community remained divided.

 

[Kirbunny431]

How likely is it that smash 4 will have two different release dates? 1 for wiiu and a separate one for 3ds? Also wouldn't it be cool if they made one of the games for melee fans and one for brawlers?

Yes as to different release dates.

No to making them different. Not at all cool.
How do you think the casuals would feel being delegated to the portable, less powerful system while the competitives got the HD console with more content? Or vice versa? You can't make two different games for two different fanbases on two different systems. It'd be a disaster.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Casuals can't tell the difference between Melee and Brawl as far as gameplay is concerned. These are the kinds of people who use up all of Kirby's jumps so they can down B from the top of the screen.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Casuals can't tell the difference between Melee and Brawl as far as gameplay is concerned. These are the kinds of people who use up all of Kirby's jumps so they can down B from the top of the screen.

Decent point. But I'm still saying that there shouldn't be a difference. It'd honestly be better if both games were like Melee: fun for everyone, extra fun for the tournament scene.

Honestly, the competitive side would be more effected by something like this. They would actually notice the difference. Then complain that their 3DS/Wii U Smash (whichever one would hypothetically take after Brawl) wasn't designed with competitive play in mind.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

How likely is it that smash 4 will have two different release dates? 1 for wiiu and a separate one for 3ds? Also wouldn't it be cool if they made one of the games for melee fans and one for brawlers?

No, the games should not play differently. I would be fine if each game had different modes, and maybe different stages, but the characters and gameplay should be the same between both versions. I won't be getting a Wii U, so I'd hate it if the Wii U version had something important that the 3DS version didn't.

 

[N3ON]

Casuals can't tell the difference between Melee and Brawl as far as gameplay is concerned. These are the kinds of people who use up all of Kirby's jumps so they can down B from the top of the screen.

Most of the casuals I've played with have been able to tell the difference between Melee and Brawl's playstyles, they just aren't able to articulate what exactly is different. For the most part they say that Melee was "faster" and Brawl is alot more "floaty", they can tell most of the characters that have been noticeably buffed/nerfed, and while they know nothing of the changes with advanced techniques or actual mechanics, they can still tell the difference between games.

No, the games should not play differently. I would be fine if each game had different modes, and maybe different stages, but the characters and gameplay should be the same between both versions. I won't be getting a Wii U, so I'd hate it if the Wii U version had something important that the 3DS version didn't.

Even if they have the same rosters and numerous other similarities, I'd say that it is very likely the Wii U version will contain more content (whatever that content may be) than the 3DS version, considering Sakurai's tendency to pack his games with content and the fact that Wii U games will be able to have much more data than 3DS ones. I agree they shouldn't play differently though, and I'm positive for the most part it will be the same, gameplay-wise.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Even if they have the same rosters and numerous other similarities, I'd say that it is very likely the Wii U version will contain more content (whatever that content may be) than the 3DS version, considering Sakurai's tendency to pack his games with content and the fact that Wii U games will be able to have much more data than 3DS ones. I agree they shouldn't play differently though, and I'm positive for the most part it will be the same, gameplay-wise.

I don't give even a fraction of a s*** if the Wii U gets Coin Launcher 2: Electric Boogaloo while the 3DS version doesn't, that's fine. Heck, as long as the majority of the stages are the same, I don't mind if there are a few exclusive stages. But characters and gameplay should be the same.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Set that sense of entitlement any higher and you might just be disappointed.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Set that sense of entitlement any higher and you might just be disappointed.

Hear that kids? Never expect ANYTHING in life or you will always be disappointed. ALWAYS.

Did Sakurai kill your puppy or something?

 

[Tiberious]

This is going to sound stupid, but Sakurai should learn from the hacking scene's work with all three previous titles and just let us unlock whatever the successors are to the Alloys. Sure, they suck. But some people like to play around with 'em. And the consumers are eventually going to, no matter what it takes.

Hell, maybe they should even leave some elements of the debug mode in, and allow us to create our own event matches and things of that nature, and share them with friends. That was something I liked to do with Melee's debug menu, and I'm sure others did too.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Hear that kids? Never expect ANYTHING in life or you will always be disappointed. ALWAYS.

Did Sakurai kill your puppy or something?

How can he kill a puppy I've never had?

You also admitted you would be disappointed if he didn't make the gameplay and roster the same between both games so I don't get where this hyperbole is coming from. :/

 

[Vkrm]

I wonder if sakurai is salty about pm..... I bet he's pissed. He should be embarrassed that there's a whole team dedicated to fixing his mistakes.

 

[Vkrm]

Yeah dude; it'd be totally cool if the community remained divided.

I prefer it that way. We'd be divided no matter what by our behavior. The melee crowd is older and therefore more mature, that's to be expected. I like most of the brawl players I've met but i just plainly think brawl is a piece of crap, and I'm unable to understand the thought process that equates to playing brawl over melee. The arguments for brawl in ssbb vs m are all dumb since they come from who think that tech skill is beating them and skill isn't a factor. I don't buy into that crap that it comes down to player preference. Look at how ssbm didn't die after brawl came out. If ssbb came before melee the scene for brawl would've died because if brawl wasnt the newest smash game it would not have anything going for it. I
Don't think brawl ***s are dumb, however I do think they have a warped perception on e-sports and competition in general

 

[Kink-Link5]

i prefer it that way. We' be divided no matter what by our behavior. The melee crowd is older and therefore more mature. I like most of the brawl players i've met but i just plainly think brawl is a piece of crap, and i'm unable to understand the thought process that equates to playing brawl over melee.

$ ¥　€　¢　§　£　₹　　

 

[Vkrm]

$ ¥　€　¢　§　£　₹　　

What is the meaning of this???

 

[Blad01]

Ok maybe I should not add anything to the Melee vs Brawl since it's out of place, but has anyone considered the time factor ? Brawl requires less time investment for high competition, since you don't need to learn very diffucult AT to master it technically, but you still need a very good perception of the game dynamicss (spacing/timing/mindgames mainly). That is why I play Brawl over Melee.

But anyways, the community will always be divided on the technical skills the game should require.

What does the BBR has to say about that letter ?

 

[Kink-Link5]

What is the meaning of this???

The meaning of monetary symbols? It depends on the context in which they are used. Like $ can mean Pesos or Dollars, off the top of my head.

 

[Vkrm]

but has anyone considered the time factor? Brawl requires less time investment for high competition, since you don't need to learn very diffucult AT to master it technically,

But anyways, the community will always be divided on the technical skills the game should require

A game should be hard to master. Instead making combos and wd easier for people who think practice is a dirty word, he made it impossible for pros and noobs alike........ Can somebody tell me Why in the name of **** is sakurai so well liked as a director?