Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Chrono.]

Jin Kazama makes more sense than Heihachi IMO, Devil Jin is a perfect Final smash.

But we need some SNK reps too, cant decide between Terry Bogard, Ryo Sakazaki, or Kyo Kusanagi. Anyone got throughts which of the three would be in smash?

Terry Bogard is the de-facto face of SNK as a whole, he's their mascot through and through, as well as an iconic character in his own right. If SNK were to get a character, I'd be really surprised if it wasn't him.

Which brings me to Iori Yagami, at this point he's probably up there too. The most iconic and recognizable character to come out of KOF and the one SNK tends to lend over for crossovers.

After those two, things get a bit more niche, but you still have Kyo, Athena, Marco, Nakoruru, Geese Howard, the works.

 

[staindgrey]

Who would Incinaroar echo?

Zangief.

Zangief confirmed.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

People aren't saying characters will be bundled into one character trailer I believe. They're saying logistically? There's nothing to say that Sakurai couldn't repeat the first Smash Direct.

Start with a unique fighter, have an echo segment where he reveals a few like he did Chrom and Dark Samus, then go over other modes, and end with one last unique newcomer.

I think we have 3-5 newcomers left personally and there's nothing that Sakurai's statement says that goes against this.

It really only means we're not going to see them popping up randomly in directs or on the website, but rather reveals will probably pour at the end, no matter how many that may be. If it's 2, 3, or 5.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

My biggest fear regarding the box theory is that regardless of whether it ends up being true or false, this thread, and likely the greater Smash Bros. speculation community will totally melt down and fall out in a similar manner to how it did as a result of Dark Pit's inclusion in Smash 4. If it ends up being true, many of those who had higher expectations will throw a massive tantrum. If it ends up being false, some of those who believed it will likely be upset over having been wrong, and most of them will likely be harassed by the group who didn't believe it, even more so than if it ended up being true. I feel like what the box theory has done is put the community in a situation where the only way out is a massive meltdown that will prove unpleasant to the point of sucking a whole lot.

Who's been saying this is going to happen?

<--this guy, that's who.

The blog theory sure looks silly after Sakurai's comments though.

I always thought it sounded silly though

Finally someone who makes sense.

We're likely going to be getting anywhere from 2 - 5 characters, maybe 6 (that's a hard maybe), and I expect only two more opportunities for reveals (in October and November respectively), maybe three if Nintendo is serious about the Video Game Awards. A Smash Direct is going to reveal anywhere from 2 - 5 characters, and one or two solo reveals round it out. I'm sticking to my guns about my final roster prediction though:

• Incineroar
• Ken (echo)
• Steve
• SE Rep (Sora, or whoever the **** you want here)
• Shadow (echo) or Tails (semi-clone)

This guys are my main five picks. If I had to add one more, here's the pool for that:

• Isaac
• Geno
• Chorus Kids
• Dixie Kong (echo)

Some combination of this will come true.

 

[staindgrey]

Terry Bogard is the de-facto face of SNK as a whole, he's their mascot through and through, as well as an iconic character in his own right. If SNK were to get a character, I'd be really surprised if it wasn't him.

Which brings me to Iori Yagami, at this point he's probably up there too. The most iconic and recognizable character to come out of KOF and the one SNK tends to lend over for crossovers.

After those two, things get a bit more niche, but you still have Kyo, Athena, Marco, Nakoruru, Geese Howard, the works.

There's something to be said about Tekken 7 bringing in Geese rather than Terry, though. Even if one could compare that to Akuma being chosen over Ryu.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who's been saying this is going to happen?

<--this guy, that's who.

Finally someone who makes sense.

We're likely going to be getting anywhere from 2 - 5 characters, and I expect only two more opportunities for reveals (in October and November respectively), maybe three if Nintendo is serious about the Video Game Awards.

Has Nintendo ever revealed anything of substance at VGA before?

 

[Momotsuki]

Has Nintendo ever revealed anything of substance at VGA before?

Zelda BotW's second DLC pack was given a proper announcement and released at and during the VGA.

 

[Nekoo]

Has Nintendo ever revealed anything of substance at VGA before?

Just Bayonetta 3 and Breath of the Wild stuff. Y'know that little Indie game no one cares about

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Aka Black Shadow echo just got blown up.

Also can write off Black Knight (if Isabelle's slightly lankier body was an issue for a mostly object and projectile-based moveset I don't see how big bulky armor wouldn't be), and while it was a minority of people advocating it, Zeraora Echo'd off of Lucario is an undisputeable impossibility now.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Aka Black Shadow echo just got blown up.

I'd argue Black Knight too for a variety of reasons, including height. Of popular echoes, however, this does offer at least a foundation for Dixie, Shadow, Medusa, and Tetra. Knocks Impa out too I suppose because she's always depicted as notably taller than Zelda.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Zelda BotW's second DLC pack was given a proper announcement and released at and during the VGA.

Just Bayonetta 3 and Breath of the Wild stuff. Y'know that little Indie game no one cares about

They also announced Cranky Kong for DK Tropical Freeze at the VGAs.

 

[Nekoo]

I see it now.... Roy hitting the sport gym and getting buff in Smash 4 was a preparation for Ultimate to Let Chrom in.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

As far as unique newcomers go? The max has to be 3. I can't see us getting more than 3 unique newcomers left.

It's the echoes that throw everything for a loop in number IMO. There's Ken, but I still very much doubt they have legitimately only one echo left to reveal even if Sakurai got a little excited in revealing them.

Can you imagine?

''Oh....and uh....here's uh....Ken. Yeah. He's here."

 

[Untouch]

The VGAs are a DAY before the game launches.
Sakurai EXPLICITLY stated that we aren't getting reveals up until release, and this would be the literal definition of a reveal up until the release.

I don't really except any smash news at all since if there's DLC it'd likely be announced in another 50 fact thing like last time. They may show Bayonetta 3 at the VGAs.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I ****ING TOLD YA'LL BUT YOU NEVER LISTENED. I WANT A WRITTEN APOLOGY FROM EVERYONE WHO CALLED ME CRAZY FOR SAYING ISABELLE AS A VILLAGER ECHO WAS IMPOSSIBLE.

Sorry. Can a mod please give me a 24 posting ban for wronging Shinsœ?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I love how everyone just leans 100% into the latest thing for speculation

"Daisy/Lucina/Dark Pit are Echos? Guess Echoes will only be characters that are exact copies"
"Chrom has a new move and Dark Samus has unique animations? An Echo can BE ANYONE!!!"
"They made Isabelle unique because she didn't fit over the Villager good enough? Almost NO ONE CAN BE AN ECHO GUYS!!!"

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I think that Shadow is probably still in the running, his body type matches up and his animations wouldn’t be as divergent as Isabelle’s. Richter has different animations that express his personality, so Shadow would be okay. But I don’t think Dixie, for example, would be feasible, and that’s honestly probably why she’s not on the base roster.

 

[MaestroDavros]

I personally think there will only be like four DLC characters this time but I think they'll be choices that will make people fill their pants with such sudden force that they'll launch themselves from their swivel chairs and into outer space. I'm still in the Banjo boat that he'll be one them.

I disagree. Remember that Smash 4, which was the series' first foray into DLC, gave us 7 characters. And as we've found out, we didn't get any more because development for Ultimate began immediately after work on the final DLC characters. Had development on DLC not stopped I can easily see them giving it at least 1 more year of characters.

Now, DLC is far more engrained in Nintendo's culture, and the Switch is doing remarkably well, plus the Smash 4 DLC did great, so that would lead to the likelihood of more characters this time around, not less.

 

[Chrono.]

I love how everyone just leans 100% into the latest thing for speculation

"Daisy/Lucina/Dark Pit are Echos? Guess Echoes will only be characters that are exact copies"
"Chrom has a new move and Dark Samus has unique animations? An Echo can BE ANYONE!!!"
"They made Isabelle unique because she didn't fit over the Villager good enough? Almost NO ONE CAN BE AN ECHO GUYS!!!"

And even with this rollercoaster, Shadow remains the perfect echo fighter candidate... and he's probably not making it.

Not in the base game at least.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And even with this rollercoaster, Shadow remains the perfect echo fighter candidate... and he's probably not making it.

Not in the base game at least.

Do we seriously think Ken is legit the only echo fighter left? Are we really gonna subscribe to that? Because that's the most unlikely thing to me. I can get limiting yourself on uniques. There's not many of those left for sure, but I sincerely doubt they just threw every echo out in the early reveals and left only Ken to be revealed.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I absolutely think now more than ever that Shadow will be included over or at least before Tails. He makes so much sense as Sonic’s Echo it’s crazy and there’s a lot leaning towards him being in still.

Of course I’d be happy if he got pushed to DLC in order to be made a semi-clone, but let’s not ask for miracles here.

 

[Deleted member]

Do we seriously think Ken is legit the only echo fighter left? Are we really gonna subscribe to that? Because that's the most unlikely thing to me. I can get limiting yourself on uniques. There's not many of those left for sure, but I sincerely doubt they just threw every echo out in the early reveals and left only Ken to be revealed.

This. Saving only one Echo just feels really weird to me, especially because they aren't treated as too big of a deal to begin with. It would kinda be like if they waited until the final moment in the last Direct to reveal Mario's alternate costumes. If I had to guess, there's probably at least one more Echo with Ken. I'm still not ruling out characters being on other sides of the box, as we haven't seen the other sides yet and all we have is speculation on what it might look like.

 

[zauberdragon]

for me it’s not the fact we may only be getting two new characters that’s upsetting it’s more who they’re rumoured to be.

I’m more than happy with Ridley, K. Rool and the return of all past veterans. I do however feel, if the rumours of Ken and incineroar are to be believed, that the smash hype train will end in a fizzle rather than a bang.

No echo is ever going to be more exciting than a newcomer and I’d argue any of the previously anounced bunch would be more exciting than incineroar (with the expection of maybe Isabelle).

I’ll not be counting any chickens just yet though. Anything beyond K. Rool I’m seeing as a bonus

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm editing my final predictions.

Uniques:

Incineroar
Geno

Echos:

Ken
Shadow
Dixie Kong

Something about this? It just feels right to me. I could be wrong, but again....

 

[Dcas]

This. Saving only one Echo just feels really weird to me, especially because they aren't treated as too big of a deal to begin with. It would kinda be like if they waited until the final moment in the last Direct to reveal Mario's alternate costumes. If I had to guess, there's probably at least one more Echo with Ken. I'm still not ruling out characters being on other sides of the box, as we haven't seen the other sides yet and all we have is speculation on what it might look like.

Daily reminder that the last 2 announcements for smash wii u were 2 of the most lowkey-least requested characters: Shulk and bjr.
No reason to expect something huge these weeks before release.

 

[staindgrey]

And even with this rollercoaster, Shadow remains the perfect echo fighter candidate... and he's probably not making it.

Not in the base game at least.

Shadow is pretty easy, yeah. Alter the blur effects to be orange, change Sonic's spines to flare up, change his upB to a Chaos Control teleport a la Mewtwo, and redo his running, idle and taunt animations. Weight and most move properties can be the same.

I could see Sakurai, however, saying that Sonic's moveset doesn't fit the spirit of the character, since Shadow has differentiated himself considerably with various chaos control themed moves, guns, motorcycles, yada yada. For some reason, the fSmash and fAir in particular feel like they don't "fit" Shadow aesthetically, for me at least.

 

[Spinosaurus]

They're not just saving one echo.

They're saving the echo. Ken's an actual icon.

 

[Deleted member]

Daily reminder that the last 2 announcements for smash wii u were 2 of the most lowkey-least requested characters: Shulk and bjr.
No reason to expect something huge these weeks before release.

I agree, which is why I'm onboard with Incineroar being the final newcomer. I'm talking about Echos, which aren't really that huge IMO as they're pretty much just skins. I'm not saying it's impossible for Ken to be the final one, I'm just saying I doubt it a bit. I don't think it's too unreasonable to think there's at least one more Echo with him.

 

[hposter]

Shadow is pretty easy, yeah. Alter the blur effects to be orange, change Sonic's spines to flare up, change his upB to a Chaos Control teleport a la Mewtwo, and redo his running, idle and taunt animations. Weight and most move properties can be the same.

I could see Sakurai, however, saying that Sonic's moveset doesn't fit the spirit of the character, since Shadow has differentiated himself considerably with various chaos control themed moves, guns, motorcycles, yada yada. For some reason, the fSmash and fAir in particular feel like they don't "fit" Shadow aesthetically, for me at least.

i could see them changing his forward smash to the weird chaos punch thing he does in sonic battle
make it like dr mario's where it has an electric effect

Edit: it's called the chaos upper

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Shadow is pretty easy, yeah. Alter the blur effects to be orange, change Sonic's spines to flare up, change his upB to a Chaos Control teleport a la Mewtwo, and redo his running, idle and taunt animations. Weight and most move properties can be the same.

I could see Sakurai, however, saying that Sonic's moveset doesn't fit the spirit of the character, since Shadow has differentiated himself considerably with various chaos control themed moves, guns, motorcycles, yada yada. For some reason, the fSmash and fAir in particular feel like they don't "fit" Shadow aesthetically, for me at least.

For that reason Shadow may be a semi-clone like Isabelle, but if we get one of those I bet it'd be Tails first.

 

[Chrono.]

Do we seriously think Ken is legit the only echo fighter left? Are we really gonna subscribe to that? Because that's the most unlikely thing to me. I can get limiting yourself on uniques. There's not many of those left for sure, but I sincerely doubt they just threw every echo out in the early reveals and left only Ken to be revealed.

Ken being a third party and "the" echo fighter makes it not so hard to believe tbh.

And I hate to bring up the box because... Yeah. But the box only fits with Ken.

I actually think we could see an echo or two after Ken myself, I'm just not really expecting it.

Shadow is pretty easy, yeah. Alter the blur effects to be orange, change Sonic's spines to flare up, change his upB to a Chaos Control teleport a la Mewtwo, and redo his running, idle and taunt animations. Weight and most move properties can be the same.

I could see Sakurai, however, saying that Sonic's moveset doesn't fit the spirit of the character, since Shadow has differentiated himself considerably with various chaos control themed moves, guns, motorcycles, yada yada. For some reason, the fSmash and fAir in particular feel like they don't "fit" Shadow aesthetically, for me at least.

Arguably, Dark Samus is an even worse case and she was made into echo just fine. With more unique animations than you'd expect to boot

I do think some moves might look a little silly with Shadow, but you can fix those with some minor tweaking. Like, for fsmash, just have him charge the punch normally without the wind-up while charging animation.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Is this form just the same as the Ulitmate general form but just allowing us to talk about leaks?

 

[Potato_]

So everyone who was saying the last Direct could be closer to October than November, you might be right.

Characterwise though, all Sakurai's comment tells us is that they're preferring to release them together as opposed to gradually announcing them.

Newcomer wise, I'm saying 2-4 left. Honestly thinking 3 looks like a real good number atm. Incineroar, Square Rep, and someone else. Pair that with DLC announcing and you have a pretty significant Direct. Could even segment them through pretty easily, one at the beginning, one in the middle, and one at the end.

Echoes though?

Literally have no idea what they'll do with them other than Ken is a lock.

 

[Nekoo]

Is this form just the same as the Ulitmate general form but just allowing us to talk about leaks?

It's also the salt mine.
And funnier because there's actual fights here.

 

[Deleted member]

Zangief.

Zangief confirmed.

I like where this is going:

Truly the "Ultimate" Smash game.

 

[NextChannelGames]

It's also the salt mine.
And funnier because there's actual fights here.

That’s true! I was here with the whole Disney debate last week...

 

[Fenriraga]

As much as I could care less about Inceneroar, it'd be really neat to see a character with a grappler based Moveset.

 

[Dcas]

It's also the salt mine.
And funnier because there's actual fights here.

Yeah i prefer this thread. Theres more "freedom" expressing things, including leaks and points of view.

 

[staindgrey]

Do we seriously think Ken is legit the only echo fighter left? Are we really gonna subscribe to that? Because that's the most unlikely thing to me. I can get limiting yourself on uniques. There's not many of those left for sure, but I sincerely doubt they just threw every echo out in the early reveals and left only Ken to be revealed.

I mean, I'm subscribing to it. Doesn't mean anyone else has to.

Echoes are not the main draw of the game. Before they were called "echoes", the community seemed to hate them in general. (Remember reactions to Lucina and Dark Pit?) They were rebranded for Ultimate to accommodate for the lack of newcomers due to all the work put in on bringing back Melee/Brawl veterans, and even if Ken is our last one, we already have more new clones in this game than Melee, Brawl or Smash4 received.

There's also precedent. Neither Brawl nor Smash4 saved their best reveals for last, and the final announcements weren't really big at all. Games typically don't withhold major selling points like a fighting game's popular additions to the roster for a surprise reveal after most of the marketing has already been done. That's just not smart business.

 

[ZenythSmash]

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/432881746/#432881746

Oh look, a leak with a timed kill switch. It’s SOMETHING, at least.

shame it didn't happened
at least the Music Theory is dead and a reminder not to listen to these unexplained fan "theories"