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Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

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SSB4Dojo

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I said it on the main ultimate thread but I want to put my thoughts here. For the box theory, whoever designed it grouped by 9. At the time of making the box, there were 69 spots worth of fighters as Isabelle was not known. That final group of 18 (9 on each side) only had 15 leaving 3 blank spots. To make the design aesthetically pleasing if you were able to see both spots, they broke the final group into a set of 8 and 7 so you had 1 open spot on one side and 2 on the other so it was as symmetrical as possible. I don’t believe we only have two more or at least the box theory doesn’t determine that. I understand things have changed this time around but I refuse to believe we get 75% of new characters within two months of the reveal with only 3 the final 2/3rds of the way, or the fact echoes seem to be a big new concept that is tailored for last minute increases in fighter count but we only have 1 in the final 4 months. Maybe I’m wrong but everything then would be frontloaded making the final wait seem pointless as we know everything already. We know there are not hidden fighters this time, all stages are unlocked from the get go. He needs to hold some things back closer to launch to tease us with. I am not saying there will be 10 more characters on the way but 5-6 (including echoes) I feel is more plausible than 2.
 

FalconFire93

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Already grateful I got K. Rool and Ridley. Couldn't ask for anything else. Any of my other wants would simply just be icing on cake and if they don't make it so be it. Sakurai still did a splendid job in delivering the "ultimate" game for all of us. ;)
Yes he did, I already got one of my major wants with Simon Belmont and I’m really happy that they went with his classic look rather than his current look and having Richter was a great bonus. If I happen to see any other characters that I want make it, then would just make it the cherry on top. :grin:
 

JustCallMeJon

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Nothing that is related to Smash Leaks but it is important...

Chris Taylor, the man who finally played Smash Ultimate despite having terminal cancer thanks to you guys (The Smash Community) has passed away.

Chris Taylor suffered from a terminal illness and was afraid to die without playing the game. However, thanks to the Community, he was finally able to play it.

Hopefully he will have a happy, everlasting afterlife.
 
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D

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Nothing that is related to Smash Leaks but it is important...

Chris Taylor, the man who finally played Smash Ultimate despite having terminal cancer thanks to Nintendo and you guys, The Smash Community, has passed away.

Thanks to the Smash Community to give him a chance to play Ultimate, he was scared to die without playing the game but thanks to us, he was able to play it. Hopefully he will have a happy life.

Thank you.
Oh wow, I had no idea just how little time he had left. I'm glad he was able to get at least a glimpse of it. Condolences to the family; even though he may have passed a bit happier, it's probably still hard on them.
 

MaestroDavros

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Everyone's talking about the Box Theory, and Here I'am fully believing the Music theory.

I feel alone.
To me Music Theory works simply because it's common sense. If you have new characters in a franchise, and each franchise essentially gets 1 preview track, you want to have music from that series to tie into that, so you hold that over for reveals. Makes a lot of sense.
 

Fane

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I don't find any of the theories believable, except potentially the blog theory.

Sakurai wouldn't make it blatantly obvious as to what series is receiving newcomers.
 

Fatmanonice

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I largely prescribe to the Blog Theory because the 3 characters a week average seems intentional and, as Golden pointed out, they would have to abruptly disrupt it in the later weeks for multiple weeks for it to not be at least viable. My personal thoughts are that 3 newcomers and 3 echoes are the safest bet for the base roster. The Direct in August gave us 5 so plus 1 isn't a huge stretch plus, if you really want to be a smartass, the E3 trailer gave us 67 reveals and with 6 being previously cut characters, bumping up the "new" reveals to 8 when you throw in Daisy and Ridley. That said, 6 would be my personal low-ball while 8 would be optimistic but not totally unreasonable.

I largely prescribe to the bare minimum predictions that a lot of people have too: Ken, Inceniroar, Shadow, and Geno. I'm still on the fence about Steve but it wouldn't be too weird at this point, especially with Microsoft and Nintendo joyfully rubbing their cross platform options in Sony's face for the past year. Going back to my original prediction, if I were totally swerve Steve, I'd say Skull Kid or Isaac for a new character and Dixie for an echo to round out my 6.

What seems to be currently going for Isaac:

-Smash Twitter pic may very well have been a subtle Golden Sun reference.

-Well known success in the Smash Ballot from a wide variety of straw polls.

-Considered by many to be one of the Big Five that missed Brawl (Geno, K. Rool, Ridley, Megaman, and Isaac) with a tangible Smash fanbase that has been visible since 2005.

-Golden Sun recently getting its copyright renewed two years early for some reason.

My conclusion: probably playable (either base or DLC) or returning as an AT.

Things going for Skull Kid:

-Majora's Mask 3D coming out the same year Ultimate began development.

-Skull Kid's AT being notably absent.

-Skull Kid technically falling in line with the Mii costume theory.

-DK and Metroid finally have be their first newcomers since Brawl, making Zelda stick out even more with its now three Links.

-Playable in Hyrule Warriors and was noted early on as one of the new characters for the 3DS version.

My conclusion: either playable (base or DLC), a boss, or somehow a part of Young Link's Final Smash.

Dixie is an interesting case given her history. She was supposed to be a pair with Diddy in Brawl but proven to be too technically difficult so she wound up by herself but ultimately cut. In place of this Diddy had Dixie's colors in both Brawl and Smash 4. This lines up with what Sakurai has said about echoes: they could pass as ALTs if it weren't for certain details that make them unique in their own right. Dixie's are pretty upfront (hint: its her hair). All of Diddy's moves would make sense on her except the rocket barrels and cartwheel, leading us into a Chrom situation.

Dixie as an echo also works because Diddy and Dixie have virtually the same proportions except Diddy had a tail and Dixie has a ponytail. She also passes what I call the squint echo test. Put Luigi in his Waluigi colors, step back like 30 feet from the TV and squint. Would he pass as Waluigi? No. Why? Because the portions are very different. Waluigi is by design very lanky to an extreme so neither could pass for the other. Now, do the same for Peach's Daisy ALT. They are virtually indistinguishable and you could do this for every echo so far. Diddy's Dixie colors are the last major example of this given Galacta Knight and Jeanne were already confirmed as ALTs. This added to the fact that Tropical Freeze was still relevant and a very successful game when Ultimate began development makes me feel like they would have to go out of their way to completely ignore Dixie this time.

My conclusion: playable (echo *likely* or semi-clone *unlikely*) or somehow a part of Diddy's Final Smash.
 
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AngrySun88

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Smash speculation theories are like religion - everyone is free to subscribe to one or none at all, but please don't try and force yours on others or assume that yours is the only one that's right.

I personally think the box theory is bunk for reasons others have stated, and feel blog theory holds slightly more water.
 
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MaestroDavros

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Pretty much this. I've read every single Sakurai column, I'm starting to understand how the guy thinks. @_@
I'll do you one better; I've read Sakurai's posts and watched his directs long enough that I'm starting to think how he thinks, how freaky is that?

My sentence structures are full of Sakuraisms. ;)
 
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Fane

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3 unique + 3 echoes is probably the most likely. I could see 4 unique and 2 echoes being possible.

Regardless, I know DLC is going to be a hype train. I'm hoping that they don't ignore the most requested and move ahead with new characters like Rex/Pyra, Springman, etc... This is the Ultimate Smash, so if characters like Bandana Dee, Isaac, Skull Kid, B&K, etc... don't make it in the base game, DLC would be the only hope those fans have, and they'd clearly sell way more than the newer characters introduced to us.
 

Untouch

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Pokemon LGPE launches on the date the TestSmash (which is almost guaranteed at this point) was previously estimated (taking place 3 weeks before launch). I didn't realise that at first, so they may push it a week back or forward.
If it is pushed forward it may land 2 weeks before the game launches, which would mean that they'd likely have all the characters announced 2 weeks before the game launches to prevent datamining.

Just a thought...
 
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Fane

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Oh, I guarantee we'll know every newcomer 2 weeks before launch.

I'd assume we'd get our last reveal/direct ~mid November.

We could possibly get one closer to launch that goes over miscellaneous things and even announce DLC being worked on similar to Mewtwo + the 50-fact extravaganza.
 
D

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You would think that Nintendo's 3rd biggest franchise (behind Mario & Pokemon) would have a high chance of another rep added; likely a villain since 2 other well-known franchises finally got recognizable villains in Ridley for Metroid & K. Rool for DK. Personally, before anything was revealed at all, I had hoped we'd get a Midna & Wolf combo character.

Who knows though. I can't really question Sakurai's decisions since I've appreciated each of his additions; even some of the echoes (indifferent on Daisy, but at least I dont hate her). I'd be happy if the game came out tomorrow, though since I'm able to hope for more, I'm going to take that chance to be greedy and hope for a Square character I care about and another Pokemon that I'd enjoy playing as.

It's hard to think about who would be likely without reverting to the word 'deserve'. I know it's a dirty word here, but, I mean, there are some franchises (like Zelda), that deserve another rep. Zelda seems to be getting the DBZ treatment; 3 different versions of their protagonist with slight variations have made it in. Now we just need Impa and Super Saiyan Impa to make the comparison official. Or should she be 'Potential Unlocked' Impa?
 

Chrono.

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Honestly I'm kinda numb to all the theories at this point.

I do feel we have at least one more echo after Ken, hoping for Shadow. If there's none, then whatever.
 

kevinthedot

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I like the blog theory for one personal reason.

...My unhealthy obsession with arranging rosters. Let's say there's in fact 7 characters left. That creates a perfect 6 rows of 13 (including the random space).
...AND GOING EVEN DEEPER, if 2 of those characters are Ken + one other echo, the option to merge echoes with their originals creates 5 rows of 12 with the 6th row having 10 (including random).
Yeah, and they actually wouldn't be too small at 6 rows, surprisingly. They made the character selection circle things REALLY small this time around.


Only problem I have with it is that 7 reveals left would mean we have 79 Fighters going by the About page, which just feels so wrong. We'd be SO close to 80.
 

iruchii

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If you want to blame the lack of Zelda playable characters on anything, I think the structure of the Zelda series itself is at fault here. The whole series is about the Triforce and its three holders: Link, Zelda, Ganon. Almost every other character is fleeting, making one-off appearances (Tingle and Impa notwithstanding). Are characters like that "worth" of being in Smash Bros.? Even within the same series, what makes Skull Kid more "deserving" (I also hate this term, but let's roll with it) than Vaati? Ghirahim? Hilda? Zant? Or helpers like Midna, Fi, the BOTW Champions?

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Skull Kid. But I do think most people are overestimating his chances just because the Assist Trophy went MIA. In my opinion, Zelda doesn't need more characters. Having a bunch of Links is actually a good representation of the series lore, being that "Link" is never the same character. It's a series that thrives on its main trio, and everything else (hi Sheik) is just a bonus.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Yeah, and they actually wouldn't be too small at 6 rows, surprisingly. They made the character selection circle things REALLY small this time around.


Only problem I have with it is that 7 reveals left would mean we have 79 Fighters going by the About page, which just feels so wrong. We'd be SO close to 80.
They could make the 7th “slot” a DLC side arrow button, thus making it only 6 base reveals left in reality
 

NintenRob

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Yeah, and they actually wouldn't be too small at 6 rows, surprisingly. They made the character selection circle things REALLY small this time around.


Only problem I have with it is that 7 reveals left would mean we have 79 Fighters going by the About page, which just feels so wrong. We'd be SO close to 80.
This looks very, right and natural. Although they might be a challenge squeezing in DLC while still looking natural.


Of course Smash Wii U showed that they don't care if it still looks natural or not.
 
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They could make the 7th “slot” a DLC side arrow button, thus making it only 6 base reveals left in reality
A side arrow wouldn't work in a shared screen. It worked for the 3DS version, it didn't for Wii U.
 

Chrono.

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Yeah, and they actually wouldn't be too small at 6 rows, surprisingly. They made the character selection circle things REALLY small this time around.


Only problem I have with it is that 7 reveals left would mean we have 79 Fighters going by the About page, which just feels so wrong. We'd be SO close to 80.
You should probably take into account Ken here.
 

Fatmanonice

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I also wanted to say that the reason why Ken and Inceniroar are so often paired together is because they're probably in the same trailer. Here's how I imagine it will play out:

Ryu's ready to fight. "Gee, it sure is BORING around here." Inceniroar comes in like John Cena. "Muh boy, this belt is what all true fighters strive for!" They fight. Cue gameplay montage. Inceniroar gets the upper hand and is about to Care Bear Stare Ryu into oblivion when Ken jumps in with his patented Flameo-Hotman uppercut to save the day. Brief moment of recognition before the distinct arcade "Here Comes a New Challenger" is heard, cue Ken's splash screen, and then another montage. All three are on the respective sides of the arena/Chuck E. Cheese lobby/whatever when they charge at each other, Inceniroar doing Darkiest Lariat, before they collide or it simply fades to black. For obvious reasons, I could also see Lucario being Inceniroar's tag team partner for the trailer, maybe having Ryu's Hadoken collide with aura sphere or somethin' at some point.
 

NintenRob

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Even within the same series, what makes Skull Kid more "deserving" (I also hate this term, but let's roll with it) than Vaati? Ghirahim? Hilda? Zant? Or helpers like Midna, Fi, the BOTW Champions?
I'm gonna answer this question first with an image

kisspng-the-legend-of-zelda-majora-s-mask-3d-link-the-leg-5ae48d44e4ee13.8921352715249278129377.jpg


This is one of the most iconic images/objects in the entire series that none of the characters you listed can hope to match. It is the namesake of one of the most beloved (and buzzworthy) games in the franchise. And Skull Kid has this item attached to his face. You see when people talk about Skull Kid in Smash, they're not just talking about Skull Kid, in many ways they're talking about a duo. Skull Kid and Majora's Mask, sometimes even Tatl and Tael. Together they are incredibly iconic. To the point a fan video about Skull Kid getting his hands on Majora's Mask got over 6 million views.

And this iconic status is something clearly known by Sakurai. Skull Kid was the FIRST assist trophy shown for Smash 3DS/WiiU, it was also among the FIRST dlc Mii costumes added to the game. It was even the subject of a winning picture on universe for a competition that Sakurai personally chose, even making reference to the Majora's Mask remake that was new at the time. Even as far back as Melee, the Majora's Mask was the subject of an event match, Trophy Tussle 3.

I could probably go on, but I don't think that's necessary, I understand your post is more about why Zelda hasn't got a newcomer and less about Skull Kid not being in. But I'll never go past an opportunity to defend Skull Kid.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Yeah, and they actually wouldn't be too small at 6 rows, surprisingly. They made the character selection circle things REALLY small this time around.


Only problem I have with it is that 7 reveals left would mean we have 79 Fighters going by the About page, which just feels so wrong. We'd be SO close to 80.
My Roster Predictions (assuming there are 7 Characters left)
:ultmario::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultyoshi::ultkirby::ultfox::ultpikachu::ultluigi::ultness::ultfalcon::ultjigglypuff:
:ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultbowser::ulticeclimbers::ultsheik::ultzelda::ultdoc::ultpichu::ultfalco::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultyounglink::ultganondorf:
:ultmewtwo::ultroy::ultchrom::ultgnw::ultmetaknight::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultzss::ultwario::ultsnake::ultike::ultpokemontrainer::ultdiddy:
:ultlucas::ultsonic:
:ultkingdedede::ultolimar::ultlucario::ultrob::ulttoonlink::ultwolf::ultvillager::ultmegaman::ultwiifittrainer:
:ultrosalina::ultlittlemac::ultgreninja::ultmiifighters::ultpalutena::ultpacman::ultrobin:ultshulk::ultbowserjr::ultduckhunt::ultryu:
:ultcloud:
:ultcorrin::ultbayonetta::ultinkling::ultridley::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultkrool::ultisabelle:


What do y'all think?
 

Fatmanonice

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My argument for Skull Kid would be to look no further than Sheik. The character hasn't been relevant in a mainline Zelda game in almost 20 years and largely wasn't cut from Brawl because Sakurai had access to early development materials for Twilight Princess that strongly implied that she would once again play a major role. In other words, Sheik lucked out despite being super expendable past Melee. Skull Kid may have also been a one and done but how iconic it is to the Zelda series is undeniable especially, as Mr. Nintendo said, Majora's Mask's huge prescence in Smash since Melee. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure he'll have a more significant role this time around, whether its playable, a boss, or part of Young Link's Final Smash.
 
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TyrantLizardKing

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I can’t see Ken and Shadow not being revealed together, it makes more sense to show off 2 third party echoes back-to-back mirroring how we previously got two first party echoes this way. Incineroar is more likely to have a trailer to himself.
 

Alaskalana

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Newbie to SmashBoards here! Honestly, the Ken leak looks pretty legit. Especially when you look at his propotions compared to Ryu. It makes sense that they put him in the game.
 
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My argument for Skull Kid would be to look no further than Sheik. The character hasn't been relevant in a mainline Zelda game in almost 20 years and largely wasn't cut from Brawl because Sakurai had access to early development materials for Twilight Princess that strongly implied that she would once again play a major role. In other words, Sheik lucked out despite being super expendable past Melee. Skull Kid may have also been a one and done but how iconic it is to the Zelda series is undeniable especially, as Mr. Nintendo said, Majora's Mask's huge prescence in Smash since Melee. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure he'll have a more significant role this time around, whether its playable, a boss, or part of Young Link's Final Smash.
To act like Sheik wasn't grandfathered in is silly, she was literally just a part of Zelda's moveset before. She wouldn't have made it in if she was a separate character.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Newbie to SmashBoards here! Honestly, the Ken leak looks pretty legit. Especially when you look at his propotions compared to Ryu. It makes sense that they put him in the game.
Welcome!

And I agree.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Newbie to SmashBoards here! Honestly, the Ken leak looks pretty legit. Especially when you look at his propotions compared to Ryu. It makes sense that they put him in the game.
Yeah, pretty sure we have come to the conclusion that the Ken leak is real.
Also, hello. Welcome to Smashboards.
 

Chrono.

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I'd like to see any Zelda character outside of the Triforce trio make it in the game at all tbh.

I know it makes sense, given the ever rotating cast, but I think limiting the cast to those 3 is keeping your mind in a box and just locking it there. Plus would it really be that jarring to see characters like Midna, Ghirahim or Skull Kid playable? I don't see the harm.
 

iruchii

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This is one of the most iconic images/objects in the entire series that none of the characters you listed can hope to match. It is the namesake of one of the most beloved (and buzzworthy) games in the franchise. And Skull Kid has this item attached to his face. You see when people talk about Skull Kid in Smash, they're not just talking about Skull Kid, in many ways they're talking about a duo. Skull Kid and Majora's Mask, sometimes even Tatl and Tael. Together they are incredibly iconic. To the point a fan video about Skull Kid getting his hands on Majora's Mask got over 6 million views.
Of course, I'm not dismissing Majora's Mask popularity. I just don't think its popularity warrants an "almost guaranteed" newcomer status. Again, I'm not saying I'm against it, I really just can't see it as confirmed as most people do due to the Zelda series' structure.

And this iconic status is something clearly known by Sakurai. Skull Kid was the FIRST assist trophy shown for Smash 3DS/WiiU, it was also among the FIRST dlc Mii costumes added to the game. It was even the subject of a winning picture on universe for a competition that Sakurai personally chose, even making reference to the Majora's Mask remake that was new at the time. Even as far back as Melee, the Majora's Mask was the subject of an event match, Trophy Tussle 3.
As I said before, don't you think that could be because of Zelda's specific lack of recurring characters? Since Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are already in the game as fighters, adding extra items/events/costumes/anything from the series means they have to get what's more popular -- and, as you said, the Majora's Mask fits that hole perfectly.

Just to avoid any misunderstandings, I like Skull Kid and would be happy if he was promoted to a fighter!

To act like Sheik wasn't grandfathered in is silly, she was literally just a part of Zelda's moveset before. She wouldn't have made it in if she was a separate character.
That's exactly what I think about Sheik and how I feel about any potential Zelda newcomer that isn't a version of Zelda/Link/Ganon.

I'd like to see any Zelda character outside of the Triforce trio make it in the game at all tbh.

I know it makes sense, given the ever rotating cast, but I think limiting the cast to those 3 is keeping your mind in a box and just locking it there. Plus would it really be that jarring to see characters like Midna, Ghirahim or Skull Kid playable? I don't see the harm.
I would like all of those to be playable, yes! But that fact that Zelda has had no new characters ever since Melee when Sakurai had all those options laid out to him does make me think Skull Kid's inclusion is less likely than what the rest of the Internet seems to think. It's maybe a pessimistic view of things, but I can see the logic behind it and that's why.
 
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Alaskalana

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Thanks y'all. Also, about the other new leaks... *deep breath* I think Steve is a huge possibility. Especially when taking into account how big Nintendo's relationship with Minecraft has been in the past couple of years. Do I like Steve? No, but I'd be wrong if I said that he doesn't stand a chance on brand recognition alone. I'm having a hard time pin pointing how his moveset would be like. But they've made movesets for strange picks before (Wii Fit, G&W, etc.)

As for the others, Incineroar always seemed like the no brainer pick from SunMoon. Bipedal, fighter outright, plays into the villain aspect of this game, his final smash could be their Z move, etc. Dixie Kong was (besides K Rool) my biggest wanted newcomer, so if she makes it in then hell yeah.

Any word on Genos, though? He seems like the duh pick for new Square/Mario rep.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Fatmanonice

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I'd like to see any Zelda character outside of the Triforce trio make it in the game at all tbh.

I know it makes sense, given the ever rotating cast, but I think limiting the cast to those 3 is keeping your mind in a box and just locking it there. Plus would it really be that jarring to see characters like Midna, Ghirahim or Skull Kid playable? I don't see the harm.
Couldn't be more jarring than having literally three incarnations of the exact same character. Just sayin'.
 
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