Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Fenriraga]

Let's really be honest here, Bayonetta basically is a first party Nintendo title at this point.

She isn't, though. We've been over this already.

If someone were to throw more money at Bayo than Nintendo, they'd get the next game. Kamiya himself even confirmed this. They wouldn't get the rights to Bayo 2 (or 3), but they could still have whatever game comes next.

She's as "first party" as Sonic is. That's just masked by the fact that she has significantly less games than him.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's really be honest here, Bayonetta basically is a first party Nintendo title at this point.

First party would imply they own the rights, which to my knowledge they do not. Sonic has had many Nintendo appearances and exclusive titles, but that doesn't make him Nintendo owned property. That's all I was saying.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think DLC will cover the slightly more niche but still popular characters.

Like Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, etc.

Its why I'm not exactly worried about certain characters not making base.

I can't see this happening. DLC needs to SELL. That's why so many of the DLC last time was third party icons.

They're easy to sell because everyone knows who they are.

The more niche you get? The harder it is to sell a DLC character.

 

[John Dylan Smith]

Some interesting things have been shared in the mimique discord regarding ZachTheNCube, apparently he "guessed" these things before:

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Just recently, Zach posted these tweets:

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I am keeping a close eye on him.

Well judging by what Mashed Potato Samurai about the newcomer reveals being slowed down in the recent coming months (This seems incredibly likely and accurate)!

Just ****in hope that this guy or Vergeben don't give away the DLC newcomers (I want to be pleasantly surprised in terms of the DLC reveals)!

It's also been a fun time speculating on here! But as we all know! All good/enjoyable things do have to come to an end!

 

[Momotsuki]

Let's really be honest here, Bayonetta basically is a first party Nintendo title at this point.

Uh... no. Do you know what first party means? A first party title is fully owned by the maker of the console it's on. A third party title is... well, not. Bayonetta is intellectual property of SEGA, and Nintendo owns the publishing rights to Bayonetta 2 and 3. Since Nintendo only partially owns the rights to Bayonetta at this point in time, it falls under the definition of a third party piece of software.

Don't spread misinformation, m'kay?

 

[Untouch]

In a fighting game you want animations to be as distinct and choreographed as possible, yes G&W follows this rule as well.
Steve feels too limited to me.

A stage or assist trophy would be perfect though.

 

[Shroob]

For people saying october will have no info/newcomers:

Sakurai said they will slow down newcomer reveals. If there is only 1 direct left, there is no way to slow down reveals unless newcomers are revealed outside of directs, which isn't done, therefore there has to be 2 "directs". Given their current system of news every month, I would expect news in October and November.


Also I think steve would be kinda cool.

I mean, no, there doesn't have to be 2 Directs.


If Incineroar/Ken/Shadow/Steve with a DLC of the SE rep are indeed all that's left, that can very easily be squished in alongside the 5 other stages, Spirits Mode, and other misc things like items and ****.

 

[Chrono.]

Well judging by what Mashed Potato Samurai about the newcomer reveals being slowed down in the recent coming months (This seems incredibly likely and accurate)!

Just ****in hope that this guy or Vergeben don't give away the DLC newcomers (I want to be pleasantly surprised in terms of the DLC reveals)!

If Smash 4 was any indication, all DLC leaks will come from Nintendo and Nintendo only lol.

 

[Noipoi]

I can't see this happening. DLC needs to SELL. That's why so many of the DLC last time was third party icons.

They're easy to sell because everyone knows who they are.

The more niche you get? The harder it is to sell a DLC character.

Here's an idea, why not both?

Who's to say characters like Geno and Isaac can't be dlc along with Mr. Super Famous Third Party Man?

 

[Robertman2]

I doubt Issac/Skull Kid/Bandana Dee will be DLC. People really overestimate how popular they are, especially Issac.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Lets be honest. DLC is gonna be much different from Sm4sh's likely focusing on fan requested characters and maybe some promotion like Sylux, Gen 8 Pokemon and Three Houses FE rep.

 

[Deleted member]

If Smash 4 was any indication, all DLC leaks will come from Nintendo and Nintendo only lol.

As long as they don't leave unused data in patches, they'll be fine.

...But to be honest, they will anyway because Nintendo never learns in this area and both Kirby: Star Allies and Octo Expansion were blowed nearly wide open because of this, lol.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Uh... no. Do you know what first party means? A first party title is fully owned by the maker of the console it's on. A third party title is... well, not. Bayonetta is intellectual property of SEGA, and Nintendo owns the publishing rights to Bayonetta 2 and 3. Since Nintendo only partially owns the rights to Bayonetta at this point in time, it falls under the definition of a third party piece of software.

Don't spread misinformation, m'kay?

Internally Bayonetta is listed as a Nintendo product.

So there is a bit of a give here. Technically she's NOT, but to Nintendo themselves?

Nintendo considers her a Nintendo product when discussing her series in revenue reports and to investors.

She is not put in with the third party franchises or support.

They consider her one of their own.

 

[Momotsuki]

Internally Bayonetta is listed as a Nintendo product.

So there is a bit of a give here. Technically she's NOT, but to Nintendo themselves?

Nintendo considers her a Nintendo product when discussing her series in revenue reports and to investors.

She is not put in with the third party franchises or support.

They consider her one of their own.

I would have to assume Nintendo is referring to their publishing rights.

 

[Chrono.]

I can't see this happening. DLC needs to SELL. That's why so many of the DLC last time was third party icons.

They're easy to sell because everyone knows who they are.

The more niche you get? The harder it is to sell a DLC character.

They can sell you any character by just making them look cool as **** in a trailer.

This is Smash we're talking about. People will be flocking to characters regardless. Unless they add some jump the shark tier character like CJ from GTA.

 

[GolisoPower]

Unless they add some jump the shark tier character like CJ from GTA.

Nah, man, Big Smoke. CJ just won’t follow the damn hype train. That’s all he had to do.

 

[Robertman2]

They can sell you any character by just making them look cool as **** in a trailer.

This is Smash we're talking about. People will be flocking to characters regardless. Unless they add some jump the shark tier character like CJ from GTA.

...now i kinda want CJ

 

[Tree Gelbman]

They can sell you any character by just making them look cool as **** in a trailer.

This is Smash we're talking about. People will be flocking to characters regardless. Unless they add some jump the shark tier character like CJ from GTA.

I mean let's be real. GTA is deserving a spot in a massive crossover like this, but I certainly wouldn't pick CJ to represent it.

 

[Shroob]

I mean let's be real. GTA is deserving a spot in a massive crossover like this, but I certainly wouldn't pick CJ to represent it.

You're right.

Niko with Echo Fighter Roman are much better choices.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Nah, man, Big Smoke. CJ just won’t follow the damn hype train. That’s all he had to do.

This is big brain thinking.

Legit. His Final Smash would just be him ordering food at Cluckin Bell and it filling the stage.

"I'll have two number 9's, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45's; one with cheese, an a large soda. "

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I am 99% certain Steve is not in the game.

I've went into a big spill about why already but I'm confident Steve is not in. DLC I can see but if there is one thing I'm almost certain isn't happening is Steve as a base newcomer. It's unlikely to say the least.

 

[Wyoming]

I mean let's be real. GTA is deserving a spot in a massive crossover like this, but I certainly wouldn't pick CJ to represent it.

We know it would be Niko if that ever happened. A GTA moveset would be quite...something. It would require a lot of freedom with the source material.

 

[CosmicQuark]

As for the Steve situation (I'll try to remove as much of my feelings towards the character as possible), the timing makes much more sense if Sakurai/Nintendo went to Microsoft for Banjo & Kazooie due to the ballot, and later down the road got Minecraft content (stage/assist) in Smash, in a similar treatment as Monster Hunter. I had been thinking the Steve leak had been leaker bait--we don't know his methods of corroboration and with his backpedaling it's feeling like a Loz situation.

However, there's another possibility, that I didn't consider because my thought has always been they're not working on DLC until the game is done. It makes sense if during/after Minecraft had been released on the Wii U/Switch, Steve was considered as a potential DLC candidate. The timing fits much better in this scenario. Otherwise, I do not see any reason for Nintendo/Sakurai to be going to Microsoft in 2015 for a cross-platform game that had yet to be released on their platform.

I'll admit, though, it's cutting it really close and could potentially go either way, depending on how completed the roster was in 2015. But Banjo & Kazooie makes much more sense given the timing as the impetus to be starting talks with a "rival" company.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You're right.

Niko with Echo Fighter Roman are much better choices.

Roman would be Villager's echo fighter with all his moves being his F-smash.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I will say that if Steve gets in he'll probably be one of the characters I play the least.
Even back when I was into Minecraft it was more about the world and what you were building, I never liked Steve. His weird blocky smile always freaked young me out.

I'm not opposed to Minecraft content, and I won't get pissed if Steve is in the game, but I don't like Steve.

I know its very unlikely but I'd love if Stage Builder was Minecraft themed in Ultimate, It would be a fun way to return to the grid based system that brawl had for stage builder. The best way you could implement the core idea of Minecraft, a sandbox game about survival and creative expression through manipulation of terrain blocks, is by a stage creation that allows you to manipulate blocks to create your own stages. It may seem kind of unorthodox to implement a series through an entire mode rather than a character, but I feel this would be a great way to implement Minecraft content into smash.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

I am 99% certain Steve is not in the game.

I've went into a big spill about why already but I'm confident Steve is not in. DLC I can see but if there is one thing I'm almost certain isn't happening is Steve as a base newcomer. It's unlikely to say the least.

Pretty bold statement from a moderator.

 

[Honest Slug]

I doubt Issac/Skull Kid/Bandana Dee will be DLC. People really overestimate how popular they are, especially Issac.

People said the same thing about King K Rool.

We don't know how popular they were on the ballot, but that doesn't mean we can say they were unpopular either.

(Also this doesn't mean I expect them in the base game)

 

[Midget Master]

I think I may be a somewhat weird case where I actually liked and like Minecraft, but don't want Steve in this game. He's probably the only character with decent leaker momentum that puts me off.

I can go on and on about the aesthetics and stuff, but to me the biggest defining factor is how little I connect "Steve" with the experience of playing Minecraft. I usually played only single player, so I seldom ever even had a chance to see the guy. The thought he was a character was pretty far from my mind. I feel like the characterization of him stems more from things outside the game than in it - yeah, the moveset potential is there, but I just don't know, man... I guess I'm like Snake in regards to Sonic. "Nope. I just don't like him."

I started out pretty strongly against it, and I'd still rather see a lot of different characters before him. But seeing people enthusiastic for him and wanting him, and in the magnanimous spirit of "Everyone is here", far be it from me to root against him. If Steve comes, I'll be happy for the people who wanted him. I'm sure Sakurai can make it work, too, make it less jarring than I constantly imagine it being. And at this point, I'm just rooting for more characters. Even if I absolutely abhor them, it isn't as if any addition is truly a subtraction.

But y'all better give me my Banjo as DLC if Steve gets in, alright?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I am 99% certain Steve is not in the game.

I've went into a big spill about why already but I'm confident Steve is not in. DLC I can see but if there is one thing I'm almost certain isn't happening is Steve as a base newcomer. It's unlikely to say the least.

Steve makes a LOT of sense as a DLC character

He's a huge gaming icon that brings a whole subset to the franchise that was never here prior.

Much like Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta through the Smash 4 DLC.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Pretty bold statement from a moderator.

What does me being a Moderator have anything to do with this? Not trying to be snarky, just kind of confused by your statement.

My reasonings are pretty sound. I made a long ass post earlier about it.

So, I guess it's time to finally give you guys my reasons for why I don't think Steve is in the base game, despite the "leaks". Yeah, it's time based more than anything else but there's more to it than just that.

The easiest and most telling part of him not coming in, the release date. Minecraft: Wii U Edition was the first instance of Minecraft on a Nintendo console. It was announced on December 7th, 2015 and released on December 17th 2015. Now you might say this could be seen as a boon to the character because this was the time where the game was probably in the limelight. However, we don't really know what DAY the project plan for Ultimate was finalized. Closer to the beginning of the month? Right at the end? We don't know but it's safe to say that the plan was at least being worked out the month prior at the least. Which means Minecraft missed its chance in the planning stage.

What else? Well, same thing. Minecraft missed the Ballot phase. While everyone was hyping up Banjo, Isaac, K. Rool, Ridley, Shantae, Bomberman, you name it, Minecraft was absent from Nintendo entirely. Sure, there might've been the kids who voted for Steve en masse but even then would Sakurai have taken those requests seriously? The game wasn't even on a Nintendo console at the time of the Ballot ending and the Project Plan starting. Oh, but appearing on a Nintendo console is a fan made rule I hear you say. Well no, it's not. Even Sakurai admitted to it being a part of why he felt comfortable with choosing Cloud.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Thanks, @PushDustIn.

So, if Steve wasn't on a Nintendo Console during the timing of the project plan it's likely he wasn't considered.

Lastly, the popularity of Minecraft in Japan is apparently not as big of a deal as here. From one of the interviews with Miyamoto and Takahashi by Kotaku:


https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

It's highly unlikely that the Wii U release made the game any more popular over there, especially considering the Wii U being, well, the Wii U. The 3DS Edition? We can talk about that, but that version wasn't released till this time LAST YEAR. The Switch Edition? Well that didn't released till earlier this year. The only saving grace to this is probably the Playstation Vita Edition which released in 2014. Vita was all the rage then so I could see it gaining traction from that but I have no proof.

I don't think a character from Minecraft is in the books for the base roster guys. Nothing lines up. Leakers can leak all they want and, yeah, maybe we get a Steve Assist Trophy but as a character, I think we are just not getting it. MAYBE, DLC. Maybe.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

We know it would be Niko if that ever happened. A GTA moveset would be quite...something. It would require a lot of freedom with the source material.

I see Trevor giving Niko a run for his money though. Trevor really became quite the breakout of GTA5. GTA Online has also kept that installment around much longer than most other installments as well.

Either way I think it'd be Trevor, Niko, or the underdog choice of Claude.

 

[hposter]

My reasonings are pretty sound. I made a long *** post earlier about it.

sounds like a fun read. got a link to it or anything, anywhere?

 

[NextChannelGames]

So... Who is going to watch Minecon this weekend to see if there really is Smash Content while the chat talks about Steve in Smash?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Ya see, I just can't see Minecraft only having a stage / AT.

I know it's possible - look at Animal Crossing and Hanenbow - but it's a huge third-party franchise that's under Microsoft's umbrella.

At the very least, I hope Verge is right about this and we get a "New World" stage with a Creeper AT.

And as for the project plan being in December, Sakurai just considers appearing on a Nintendo console a "common courtesy," so he may or may not consider it as something a character 100% needs, but even then Nintendo would be working with Mojang to plan Minecraft Wii U and would probably notify Sakurai in case he may be interested in representing the franchise since it's big.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What does me being a Moderator have anything to do with this? Not trying to be snarky, just kind of confused by your statement.

My reasonings are pretty sound. I made a long *** post earlier about it.

LMAO first Incineroar. Now Steve.

Bet Ken is next.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

sounds like a fun read. got a link to it or anything, anywhere?

Yeah, it's that second quote box in the post you quoted. Right underneath that text you quoted.

 

[Robertman2]

So... Who is going to watch Minecon this weekend to see if there really is Smash Content while the chat talks about Steve in Smash?

Me. I got nothing better to other than labbing Android 17 and Cooler in Dragon Ball

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

This is big brain thinking.

Legit. His Final Smash would just be him ordering food at Cluckin Bell and it filling the stage.

"I'll have two number 9's, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45's; one with cheese, an a large soda. "

I never thought this video would ever be relevant again

 

[hposter]

Yeah, it's that second quote box in the post you quoted. Right underneath that text you quoted.

oh i'm dumb, sorry

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Yeah, I'm honestly thinking Steve isn't gonna get in. I always thought that if minecraft got representation, it'd be through a stage or AT