Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Thermithral]

Since are still in the game, I am already pretty much satisfied with the roster. If I had to pick five more to push it to absolute satisfaction though, it would be these five.

- Murky(Activision Blizzard): Murlocs represent Blizzard better than anything else, and any opportunity to bring Warcraft closer to the Switch I will take. I know someone mentioned Diablo before as a possible character, but I feel the little murloc from Heroes of the Storm and various other cameo appearances throughout Blizzards history, would fit better. It is a cute cartoony fish guy, who seeks vengeance at the adventures who slaughter his kind, game after game.

- Medusa(Kid Icarus): Uprising is a masterpiece and did a great job giving new life to a lot of the old Kid Icarus characters, including Medusa. I think she could be an interesting mix of Palutenas staff combat with Ness and Zelda style magic attacks. I know some people would prefer Hades or Viridi, but I think completing the original three characters (Pit, Palutena and Medusa) would be cool. Plus, I dont want to hit Viridi, and ever since Spirits was revealed, I have been hoping to see Hades as a spirit because of what happens in the post credits of Uprising.

- Susie(Kirby): I know there is support of Bandana Waddle Dee, and Marx, but I personally think Susie would be a more exciting character pick. I enjoyed her character during the events in Planet Robobot, and given how she looks in the DLC for Star Allies, I think it would be reasonable to make a move set for her using her robot suit.

- Garchomp(Pokemon): I think it would be neat to have a proper dragon type in the game, even if he would play like a sword character, except with the blades duck taped to his elbows. He could probably incorporate some sand projectile attack, a move that buries you for a second, or Meta Knight style Down B where he disappears underground and reappears. Not sure exactly how it would work to be honest, but it would be neat.

- Shantae(Shantae): At first I did not understand the hype around this character, but after playing the games released on the switch, I get it. I would definitely have liked to see this franchise get some kind of playable character. The move set could basically be pulled from the most recent release, along with the alternative costumes. That this is an indie that appeared on the Gameboy really sold the idea to me, to be honest.

Honorable mentions to Gengar, Rex/Pyra/Mythra in any form and The countless Warcraft characters that I would love to see but would never realistically expect to ever see in Smash, or outside of the Blizzard circle of games in any form.

 

[beans]

His assist trophy looks cute amd that aged up version of him is a daddy tbh

Thanks for reminding of a word I need to hunt down and destroy in all books. If I hear any of my descendants call me daddy, I'll blame the internet for ruining that word.

Anyway, are we still in the Katalina boat?
The pretty much Japan-only (like Takamaru) promotional (Corrin 2: Gacha Bogaloo) DLC?
Lovely

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Heihachi is the most likely Bandai Namco rep.

Sakurai has spoken of including him.

He's mysteriously absent as well as Tekken content despite the fact Akira is present.

I doubt anyone else is getting in.

 

[Bionichute]

Thanks for reminding of a word I need to hunt down and destroy in all books. If I hear any of my descendants call me daddy, I'll blame the internet for ruining that word.

Anyway, are we still in the Katalina boat?
The pretty much Japan-only (like Takamaru) promotional (Corrin 2: Gacha Bogaloo) DLC?
Lovely

katalina, steve, dq character, namco bandai rep, and western franchise rep apparently

 

[FreeFox]

In the Melee, Sakurai obviously wasn't so dead-set on only putting in characters that have international recognizably. Lucas only got into Brawl due to Mother 3 was supposed to be localized and in Smash For, Sakurai outright turned down Takamaru because of this.

Passing time is significant in this situation, because Sakurai's way of character selection has been changed as Smash become a bigger deal globally.

I understand what you mean but I still wonder. If something has already happened, what makes it imposible for it to happen again? Not saying that it has to happen again, but what stops it from happening if it has already happened? Does that mean that the standards set by all but the lastest smash should be ignored?

Just to add some extra context, let me explain how I manage what Sakurai says. I consider what he says to expire with the appearance of a new game. If we took what Sakurai said for one cycle to another, we would live a contradiction with animal crossing characters or Ridley (and some more stuff like DLC). Not sure if this is the right way to go but that is how I go with what he says.

 

[Bionichute]

gonna be honest, the only real legit thing going for this is that its exactly what nintendo would do

 

[RawstyleEevee]

katalina, steve, dq character, namco bandai rep, and western franchise rep apparently

I believe Hitagi said no Namco rep though

 

[osby]

I understand what you mean but I still wonder. If something has already happened, what makes it imposible for it to happen again? Not saying that it has to happen again, but what stops it from happening if it has already happened? Does that mean that the standards set by all but the lastest smash should be ignored?

Just to add some extra context, let me explain how I manage what Sakurai says. I consider what he says to expire with the appearance of a new game. If we took what Sakurai said for one cycle to another, we would live a contradiction with animal crossing characters or Ridley (and some more stuff like DLC). Not sure if this is the right way to go but that is how I go with what he says.

Eh, I guess I can see another character like Corrin, at least.

 

[ErenJager]

Also, I am seeing this recent discussion of Erdrick getting bandwagon support, what is causing it? I already can guess why people are jumping on Katalina, but I am guessing with Vergeben Square character rumors, possibilities like Erdrick have been slowly growing with people I am guessing, right?

I think when GameXplain did a DLC predictions video and spoke about a DQ rep they put a spot light on Erdrick.

I personally think it'll be an avatar or created character that has nods to various heroes throughout the franchise... Hopefully its more like Mii's and less like Villager for customization.

I think it would be awesome if they included the monster recruitment from DQ into the move set. Having an AI assist or summons would be neat as heck.

 

[Roberk]

Heihachi is the most likely Bandai Namco rep.

Sakurai has spoken of including him.

He's mysteriously absent as well as Tekken content despite the fact Akira is present.

I doubt anyone else is getting in.

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

 

[Bionichute]

I think when GameXplain did a DLC predictions video and spoke about a DQ rep they put a spot light on Erdrick.

I personally think it'll be an avatar or created character that has nods to various heroes throughout the franchise... Hopefully its more like Mii's and less like Villager for customization.

I think it would be awesome if they included the monster recruitment from DQ into the move set. Having an AI assist or summons would be neat as heck.

thats way too much work for a dlc character dude

 

[KMDP]

Heihachi is the most likely Bandai Namco rep.

Sakurai has spoken of including him.

He's mysteriously absent as well as Tekken content despite the fact Akira is present.

I doubt anyone else is getting in.

*lights the last candle in a Digivice-shaped spell circle*

I'm sorry, did you say something?

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

i hope i don't catch any of you unironically wanting or defending a cash grab gacha mobile game in smash so we can pay 5 bucks for a glorified advert.

Anyway hitagi seems so wishy washy yes katalina no katalina yes katalina zzzzzzzz

 

[KingofKoopas]

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

I honestly don't believe that anymore. If street fighter can make all the characters 2d from tekken, and if Sakurai can make nameless Piranha Plant playable... Then what is stopping Heihachi at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

Lol no moveset potential
Lol piranha plant ****ing exists
Lol heihachi literally comes from a fighting game his moveset is already there sakurai just needs to implement it in smash

 

[MSmariosonic]

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

Well that was mostly due to it either being Heihachi or Pac-Man

In the end he chose Pac-Man to represent Namco which was the wisest decision to make

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hydlide for Smash.

I mean...every Hydlide game is awful, but sure.

Hell, if you ask me, if they don't include any music from Dragon Quest V, which had the best music, they shouldn't even include Dragon Quest at all lmao

Well they didn't ask you.

If we can somehow have FF with no FF6 music, we can have DQ without music from any specific DQ game.

It’s also that Western RPGs exist, so that’s more what we think of.

Not me.

Growing up, WRPGs rarely ever came to consoles, so JRPGs was all I had.

I think Baldur's Gate was my first big WRPG, and at that point, I'd been playing Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games for years.

 

[RileyXY1]

i hope i don't catch any of you unironically wanting or defending a cash grab gacha mobile game in smash so we can pay 5 bucks for a glorified advert.

Anyway hitagi seems so wishy washy yes katalina no katalina yes katalina zzzzzzzz

Not only that, Vergeben has been dismissive of Hitagi's claims for a while now.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Realistically, I think that, whatever the DLC is, we should be grateful. Like, seriously. Smash has the biggest roster in any fighting game EVER with, including DLC and echo fighters, 77 characters, 103 stages, but technically 309, over 900 music tracks, a cool-looking adventure mode, more items, and more options, we should be happy as is, let alone with DLC.

 

[FreeFox]

thats way too much work for a dlc character dude

Cloud has two different types of costumes. Bayonetta has two different types of costume and they come with different effects between the two. Villager and Inkling have 8 completely different costumes. I wouldnt put it past Nintendo but that mostly depends on what SE allow.

 

[KMDP]

Lol no moveset potential
Lol piranha plant ****ing exists
Lol heihachi literally comes from a fighting game his moveset is already there sakurai just needs to implement it in smash

Yeah but what does Heihachi bring that Ryu and Ken don't alrea- *shot repeatedly by fighting game fans*

 

[Deleted member]

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

It wasn’t moveset potential, Sakurai said this
“implementing Heihachi’s movement in Smash would be difficult…” (Source:https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/800/)
He’s likely referring to Heihachi’s slow movement and the fact that Tekken is a 3D fighting game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, Sakurai's issues was transferring Heihachi's Tekken gameplay properly to Smash. Not a lack of moveset potential, but being difficult to properly represent the Tekken style. It's not as easy as transferring 2D gameplay over like Street Fighter.

Heihachi may not get in again due to this factor alone. We could potentially get another Bandai-Namco character if they're easier to make playable. There's more than one option, after all.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah but what does Heihachi bring that Ryu and Ken don't alrea- *shot repeatedly by fighting game fans*

Doesn't he have like electric stuff? Thats all I know of iirc I don't play tekken

 

[Jetsurge]

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

That's not why he wasn't included. It's because Sakurai couldn't figure out how to translate his Tekken playstyle to Smash
Edit: 'd

 

[KingBroly]

I'm going to guess that because Ryu's in the game, contractually, they can't put other fighting game characters in the game.

 

[KMDP]

Like, seriously. Smash has the biggest roster in any fighting game EVER

*insert obligatory reference to Tobal 2 and Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3*

 

[Thermithral]

Realistically, I think that, whatever the DLC is, we should be grateful. Like, seriously. Smash has the biggest roster in any fighting game EVER with, including DLC and echo fighters, 77 characters, 103 stages, but technically 309, over 900 music tracks, a cool-looking adventure mode, more items, and more options, we should be happy as is, let alone with DLC.

Ultimate is a fitting name for this game I think.

Honestly the only way I would be genuinely upset with the DLC is if it somehow either took a character out of the game, or flooded it with Sonic characters.

Also is it still to late for the random character button to be replaced with Ditto?

 

[ErenJager]

Heihachi is the most likely Bandai Namco rep.

Sakurai has spoken of including him.

He's mysteriously absent as well as Tekken content despite the fact Akira is present.

I doubt anyone else is getting in.

I don't disagree about Heihachi.

But!

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Meaning just because his Mii Costume and Spirit have not been shown ((yet)) does not mean they dont exist.

People thought this meant Shadow, Skull Kid, and Isaac were on the roster, because they were "mysteriously missing".

 

[Deleted member]

Realistically, I think that, whatever the DLC is, we should be grateful. Like, seriously. Smash has the biggest roster in any fighting game EVER with, including DLC and echo fighters, 77 characters, 103 stages, but technically 309, over 900 music tracks, a cool-looking adventure mode, more items, and more options, we should be happy as is, let alone with DLC.

Actually, Tobal 2 has the biggest fighting game roster of all time with 200 characters.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Is there a thread for the upcoming xbox event thing at 3 pm ct?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

He also said why he didn't include Heihachi (no clear moveset potential). Sakurai mentioning characters is a blessing and a curse, while Heihachi was on his radar Sakurai has precedent to not include Heihachi over going out of his way to include him.

Not once did he say he had no clear moveset potential.

What he really said is that implementing his Tekken moves and what not would prove a challenge in Smash Brothers.

And to be fair he probably considered this with Ryu as well.

Because each of the three fighting game series that are Street Fighter, Tekken, and Smash are VASTLY different in the way they are played and implemented so crossing the three over is of course a challenge.

Why do you think Street Fighter X Tekken was going to be a two part thing?

 

[Deleted member]

Is there a thread for the upcoming xbox event thing at 3 pm ct?

They will reveal Crackdown 4 & Knuckles.

 

[Michele]

I'd like to be honest everyone, I've gone through Hitagi's personal thread, and I can give you the summary of his claims, so as to not only not mistake it with Vergeben's claims, but also to keep track for later.

In brief, Senjougahara__Hitagi is a leaker on Reddit who rose to stardom when he stated that Steve from Minecraft and Katalina from Granblue Fantasy were potential post-launch roster additions after accurately leaking the return of the long-dormant Samurai Shodown [sic] franchise.

When another user asked (Das)Vergeben about his authenticity, he backed him, stating "There is a connection somewhere between what I have heard and Senjougahara__Hitagi hears. Like they said. I know some things they don't, they know some things I don't. But it seems to meet in the middle at times.".

While he moved away from talking about SSBU after being flooded with asks about if Character X was in the game, he recently started up a casual thread on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/user/Senjougahara__Hitagi/comments/9ux39a) discussing some of this information in greater detail. Here are some important takeaways from what he's posted so far:

- Yes, Steve is in. "Get excited my dude" was something he wrote twice in his remarks to Minecraft fans who wanted to know anything about Steve's inclusion.

- Katalina still has a good shot. When asked about Katalina being added, he said "I actually don't know if Katalina is in or not, but things seemed to be good with negotiations", but noted "for all I know, it could not have gone through and they made other negotiations."

- Hitagi has heard other character names. However, when pressed for details, he stated that "I can't disclose rn" and added that the characters were from "all over the spectrum" of video games instead of just being potential Square-Enix reps. He hinted at another Western-made character.

- The Square-Enix character may be a Dragon Quest rep. "I have heard about DQ characters but can't confirm if it's true or not". Whomever it is, fans will recognize the character.

- There might not be an announcement at TGA. When asked about if there's an announcement planned for TGA, which will be held the night before SSBU is released, Hitagi said "Who knows actually. Like i said, a lot of false info gets thrown on purpose so people don't find out. It's a higher kind of info that we are not allowed to know."

- Banjo and Kazooie aren't likely. Per Hitagi, "Banjo is looking grim. And tbh, he never really had good chance to begin with", and "as far as I know, he was never a character choice". Not really all that surprising, given that Nintendo came up with the DLC list for Masahiro Sakurai to work with.

- Don't expect an Atlus or Bethesda rep. When he was asked about if he's heard of any Shin Megami Tensei or Persona characters being discussed, Hitagi simply replied that "none" were brought up. Same with Doomslayer.

- Who he hasn't heard about. Sora, Geno, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Rex/Pyra, Professor Layton, Zack Fair, any other Final Fantasy character, Lloyd Irving, Prince of All Cosmos, and any other Bamco rep. These don't directly deconfirm characters, but they don't bode well for their chances. However, Paper Mario and Advance Wars were explicitly deconfirmed.

- Hitagi still thinks fans will be satisfied with the characters that Nintendo will pick. When asked if fans will be happy with the characters, Hitagi said "Definitely. They all seem pretty cool in their respective ways." Although he also notes that half of the names he's heard aren't 100% confirmed.

Anyway, I just wanted to make this post, so that peoples doesn't end up mistaking him with what Verge said.

 

[Cosmic77]

So now Hitagi is saying a Namco rep?

We already have Verge predicting a SE rep and possibly Steve, and now we have Katalina and a Namco rep apparently. The more characters that are brought up, the less I'm inclined to believe Hitagi. He's saying his and Verge's predictions are likely correct, but then he goes on on to say half of the characters he knows of are unconfirmed? Combined, they've already mentioned four characters.

I don't care if Verge trusts him. Until Hitagi himself gets a prediction right that he couldn't have just bandwagoned off of Verge (Katalina), I don't have any reason to think this isn't Loz18 all over again.

 

[link2702]

To be fair that's more of a trappings of what they've done with Final Fantasy in general lately and not the fault of 15 itself.

15 was better received than most other recent installments, but Square has sort of derailed that franchise in multiple ways. Too many sequels, spin-offs, including things like the MMOs as numbered installments that should have been spin-offs, taking far too long between numbered installments, etc.

People just sort of miss the old days of ''Here's 7, now here's 8, and 9..."

Now it's tiresome for people because ''Here's Final Fantasy 18, 18-2, Final Fantasy 18: Crystals of the North as a spin-off, Final Fantasy 19 as an MMO, and we'll throw in a random cutesy spin-off to top it all off."

They just have to reclaim that brand and reel it the **** back in fast.

This is part of it definitely, but for me another reason is how much they’re blending sci-fi and fantasy anymore. I miss the old days where things were simpler. The characters didn’t all look like edgy emo anime characters, there weren’t weird futuristic technology all around, everything was more medieval inspired, with the craziest technology being stream power airships which were literally just normal wooden ships with propellers on top.

The stories were also simpler.

Granted I know one of my favorite ff’s was unfortunately the cause of the current trend(ff6) but it still wasn’t nearly as crazy as now. It didn’t get too crazy till around after 10, and part of 10’s story was even criticizing the over reliance on technology.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, Tobal 2 has the biggest fighting game roster of all time with 200 characters.

*insert obligatory reference to Tobal 2 and Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3*

Damn, beat me to it.

 

[ErenJager]

thats way too much work for a dlc character dude

Perhaps.

It all depends really.

If they build from the ground up, its a lot.
If they get a bunch of assets from Square and can repurpose them, its not as much.

 

[Diddy Kong]

REMINDER:

We don't know if Hitagi is legit, just that Vergeben kinda sorta trusts him a bit

This could literally be another Loz18 situation here. Be careful

What did this person say? So I know if I can agree with him or not, based on the fact of what he says pleases me or not.

 

[KMDP]

The thing about Tobal 2 (200 characters) and Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (98 characters in 161 forms) is that a lot of them are palette swaps (Tobal 2) or moveset clones (DBZBT3).

I'm interested in finding out how many, between Smash Ultimate, Tobal 2 and Budokai Tenkaichi 3 are actually unique characters, because Smash Ultimate might actually have them beat on that front.