Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bionichute]

The guy who composed the music for Dragon Quest has some controversial views to say the least, which is why the soundtrack for DQ11 had to be altered.

the soundtrack wasn't actually altered, its just not good

 

[Deleted member]

Hydlide for Smash.

Indiana Jones confirmed!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I still think listening to Hiitagi is dumb in the first place. He's proven NOTHING and he's making an outrageous claim of a character like Katalina.

I fail to see why Nintendo would put a character from Cygames own franchise rather you know someone from Dragalia which they actually own the IP of.

The sense of that makes none what so ever.

 

[Jetsurge]

I don't even want a Dragon Quest character after hearing that you know whole nationalist thing.

They're already working with Konami so I doubt they would care.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair JRPGS are nice as hell in America at least. They're a whole subculture of gamers here and a majority of them have to groan because when someone talks to them about JRPGS all they know is Final Fantasy.

Persona, Xenoblade, Dragon Quest, etc. They might be huge news in Japan but in the West if it ain't FInal Fantasy most common folks don't give a ****.

I don't know why, but Final Fantasy just sort of cornered the market here from my experience.

I haven't kept up with recent FF titles but how well did FFXV do?

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Xenoblade's popularity, I think now is probably as good a time as any to bring this up; this was brought up in the Isaac thread yesterday, and it's worth showing here (if it wasn't already).

Spoiler: Spoilered for Size

This chart shows the sales figures for Xenoblade, Fire Emblem and Golden Sun (in Millions). While the XB2 sales are slighly out-of-date, and I believe many of the results are from the notoriously iffy VGChartz, it gets across something which is often used against Golden Sun as a franchise.

For reference, Golden Sun 1 only sold 200'000 less copies than Fire Emblem: Awakening; and that was back in the early internet era, when all it had was physical word-of-mouth, magazine reviews and a (not particularly good) commercial to get it out there.

To say it wasn't a success back in it's day is... well, wrong. Because if Golden Sun wasn't a success then, then Fire Emblem: Awakening isn't a success now.

I mean... yeah. Golden Sun was a very successful series. That's something thats true. But you have to wonder what's in Sakurais head, he probably thinks of GS like Advance Wars: a dead series thats too young to have a retro rep. Which sucks cause Isaac looks pretty dope even though I've never played a GS game

hes handsome as HELL

 

[Bionichute]

I don't even want a Dragon Quest character after hearing that you know whole nationalist thing.

Sora, Geno, or Lara Croft.

But please don't give that **** money.

being fair, square distanced themselves when he said that, both in japan AND here

the only reason they still go to him is because he legally owns the rights to all of dragon quest's music for some reason. he doesnt even make good music any more

 

[KMDP]

To be fair JRPGS are nice as hell in America at least. They're a whole subculture of gamers here and a majority of them have to groan because when someone talks to them about JRPGS all they know is Final Fantasy.

Persona, Xenoblade, Dragon Quest, etc. They might be huge news in Japan but in the West if it ain't FInal Fantasy most common folks don't give a ****.

I don't know why, but Final Fantasy just sort of cornered the market here from my experience.

Fortunately, Persona 5, Xenoblade 2 and Dragon Quest XI seem to be changing that.

Whether that sticks remains to be seen.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I haven't kept up with recent FF titles but how well did FFXV do?

8 million worldwide or something like that?

And it being the fast selling installment around the world as well?

At least as far as I remember.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean... yeah. Golden Sun was a very successful series. That's something thats true. But you have to wonder what's in Sakurais head, he probably thinks of GS like Advance Wars: a dead series thats too young to have a retro rep. Which sucks cause Isaac looks pretty dope even though I've never played a GS game

hes handsome as HELL

Isaac is only handsome in Dark Dawn.

 

[Deleted member]

Xenoblade is one of zeros favorite games, of course hes gonna want rex and homura in. If theres another xenoblade character then they're also the only obvious choice since they're the main characters

What do you mean by "know" xenoblade better? dragon quest certainly isnt as popular but its a 30 year old series, I imagine everyone knows it exists. I've been playing DQ games for 20 years lol, and DQ 11 sold way more than xenoblade 2, although mostly in japan.

DQ is one of japans favorite things, they deck out everything when a new game comes out, its absolutely insane. Since nintendo seems to care way more about its japanese audience than its western audience, I wouldnt at all surprised if there was a hero character before another xenoblade




afaik they dont but I havent been playing close attention

I've already stated that I know the legacy that Dragon Quest has. Hell, if you ask me, if they don't include any music from Dragon Quest V, which had the best music, they shouldn't even include Dragon Quest at all lmao

Of course Dragon Quest is gonna sell more than Xenoblade (in Japan), but what I'm trying to get at is how the franchise unfortunately still has to put in work to get that overseas status. I don't know if the Switch port of Dragon Quest XI will help, at this rate. Three ****ing years and we're still waiting with nothing to go off of. Hell, we don't even know how many of those 800K copies DQXI sold here in America.

And if you ask me, I think Nintendo is trying to get back into the good graces of the Western audience now more than ever with the Switch after the Wii U. Over in Japan, the Wii U they were fine with, surprisingly enough. Most likely because of Splatoon and Mario Maker with how much of a splash hits they became.

 

[Deleted member]

the soundtrack wasn't actually altered, its just not good

Really? I thought that the deal was that the soundtrack was completely midi-fied and was originally orchestral.

 

[FreeFox]

Not really, that was like 17 years ago.

They scrapped it.

So, if 17 years pass, Piranha plant stops killing the argument of "Hat Goomba"?
How many years before Corrin stops helping the argument of promotional characters for DLC?
Is the Ridley too big back in action after this game is over?

I am confused about why a rule would be back in place just because time has passed. Can you explain to me why it is that way? Can you give examples of when it has happened?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

To be fair JRPGS are nice as hell in America at least. They're a whole subculture of gamers here and a majority of them have to groan because when someone talks to them about JRPGS all they know is Final Fantasy.

Persona, Xenoblade, Dragon Quest, etc. They might be huge news in Japan but in the West if it ain't FInal Fantasy most common folks don't give a ****.

I don't know why, but Final Fantasy just sort of cornered the market here from my experience.

It’s also that Western RPGs exist, so that’s more what we think of.

JRPGs really don’t interest me that much, and they do tend to have pretty cookie-cutter looking “how to draw anime” protagonists. When I think of an RPG, I’m usually considering a first person Bethesda game like Fallout or Elder Scrolls.

So far, this ‘leaked’ crop of DLC is very Japan-centric, which also accounts for the hostility. Sm4sh newcomers focused on newer games and also trended Japanese, while it seems that the two big characters in Ultimate base trend Western favorites, with some Japanese hotness (notice how there was a lot of hostility toward Isabelle, and Inkling pretty well fell off the map when Ridley came along). That’s also why we’re bristling at “You’ll love it!” when the three potentials we have are a character whose fanbase is mostly Japanese, a character whose fanbase is exclusively Japanese, and a character whose fanbase is best represented by annoying YouTuber children.

 

[Bionichute]

Really? I thought that the deal was that the soundtrack was completely midi-fied and was originally orchestral.

no it just

it just sounds like that for some reason

well they did actually do that for some of the other games but not for dq11. thats all original soundtrack baby

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac is only handsome in Dark Dawn.

His assist trophy looks cute amd that aged up version of him is a daddy tbh

 

[Jetsurge]

8 million worldwide or something like that?

And it being the fast selling installment around the world as well?

At least as far as I remember.

Still they just canceled all dlc, lost 33 mill from it and whenever I hear someone talk about the game it's always negative

 

[osby]

So, if 17 years pass, Piranha plant stops killing the argument of "Hat Goomba"?
How many years before Corrin stops helping the argument of promotional characters for DLC?
Is the Ridley too big back in action after this game is over?

I am confused about why a rule would be back in place just because time has passed. Can you explain to me why it is that way? Can you give examples of when it has happened?

In the Melee, Sakurai obviously wasn't so dead-set on only putting in characters that have international recognizably. Lucas only got into Brawl due to Mother 3 was supposed to be localized and in Smash For, Sakurai outright turned down Takamaru because of this.

Passing time is significant in this situation, because Sakurai's way of character selection has been changed as Smash become a bigger deal globally.

 

[KMDP]

I mean... yeah. Golden Sun was a very successful series. That's something thats true. But you have to wonder what's in Sakurais head, he probably thinks of GS like Advance Wars: a dead series thats too young to have a retro rep. Which sucks cause Isaac looks pretty dope even though I've never played a GS game

hes handsome as HELL

I'd be willing to bet that if Smash Ultimate had had, like, ~6 months longer in development, we might have gotten Isaac.

Not that I'm saying that Ultimate should have been delayed, god no.

 

[Deleted member]

Still they just canceled all dlc, lost 33 mill from it and whenever I hear someone talk about the game it's always negative

How'd they lose 33 mil again? Didn't someone like leave and refuse to develop dlc or something like that?

 

[Bionichute]

no it just

it just sounds like that for some reason

well they did actually do that for some of the other games but not for dq11. thats all original soundtrack baby

oh and the reason for this is because its a ploy to get people to buy orchestral versions of the soundtrack because the composer is a sack of **** who not only is willing to degrade his own products for a quick buck, but also denies war crimes that really happened

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Xenoblade's popularity, I think now is probably as good a time as any to bring this up; this was brought up in the Isaac thread yesterday, and it's worth showing here (if it wasn't already).

Spoiler: Spoilered for Size

This chart shows the sales figures for Xenoblade, Fire Emblem and Golden Sun (in Millions). While the XB2 sales are slighly out-of-date, and I believe many of the results are from the notoriously iffy VGChartz, it gets across something which is often used against Golden Sun as a franchise.

For reference, Golden Sun 1 only sold 200'000 less copies than Fire Emblem: Awakening; and that was back in the early internet era, when all it had was physical word-of-mouth, magazine reviews and a (not particularly good) commercial to get it out there.

To say it wasn't a success back in it's day is... well, wrong. Because if Golden Sun wasn't a success then, then Fire Emblem: Awakening isn't a success now.

VGChartz can only really give you a "good guesstimate", honestly. My problem with the whole Isaac situation is really with how they've handled Golden Sun as a franchise after the first and second game.

Camelot has done a pretty poor job of trying to push the franchise in countries that aren't named "The United States of America", so when we see Isaac as an AT again, we can't go "WHAT THE ****, NINTENDO?!" because they've done a terrible job of trying to push the franchise. Wasn't the last game in the franchise not that good either, from what I've heard?

 

[Deleted member]

Still they just canceled all dlc, lost 33 mill from it and whenever I hear someone talk about the game it's always negative

From what I’ve seen, the general consensus on that game is that if you came into it with no knowledge of its history, you’d probably be ok with it, but you’ll be dissapointed with it if you’ve been waiting for it since it was called FF Versus XIII

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Still they just canceled all dlc, lost 33 mill from it and whenever I hear someone talk about the game it's always negative

To be fair that's more of a trappings of what they've done with Final Fantasy in general lately and not the fault of 15 itself.

15 was better received than most other recent installments, but Square has sort of derailed that franchise in multiple ways. Too many sequels, spin-offs, including things like the MMOs as numbered installments that should have been spin-offs, taking far too long between numbered installments, etc.

People just sort of miss the old days of ''Here's 7, now here's 8, and 9..."

Now it's tiresome for people because ''Here's Final Fantasy 18, 18-2, Final Fantasy 18: Crystals of the North as a spin-off, Final Fantasy 19 as an MMO, and we'll throw in a random cutesy spin-off to top it all off."

They just have to reclaim that brand and reel it the **** back in fast.

 

[ErenJager]

so long as the dq rep isnt a slime or something stupid like that i would like one,

I think the best dragon quest rep would to have a create-a-character. It would be a bit more development time but I think a basic character creator could be fairly unique. That way you can use it to make characters that resemble a variety of heroes from DQ's history. You could also give options that allow for a head nod to Goku.

The move set could be unique if it used monster recruitment. It could have some sort of mechanic that uses slime as a recruited monster.

 

[Bionichute]

From what I’ve seen, the general consensus on that game is that if you came into it with no knowledge of its history, you’d probably be ok with it, but you’ll be dissapointed with it if you’ve been waiting for it since it was called FF Versus XIII

you'd be disappointed with it if you liked any other final fantasy besides 13 too

 

[Deleted member]

VGChartz can only really give you a "good guesstimate", honestly. My problem with the whole Isaac situation is really with how they've handled Golden Sun as a franchise after the first and second game.

Camelot has done a pretty poor job of trying to push the franchise in countries that aren't named "The United States of America", so when we see Isaac as an AT again, we can't go "WHAT THE ****, NINTENDO?!" because they've done a terrible job of trying to push the franchise. Wasn't the last game in the franchise not that good either, from what I've heard?

The last game was the best, because it gave us beard Isaac. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In the Melee, Sakurai obviously wasn't so dead-set on only putting in characters that have international recognizably. Lucas only got into Brawl due to Mother 3 was supposed to be localized and in Smash For, Sakurai outright turned down Takamaru because of this.

Passing time is significant in this situation, because Sakurai's way of character selection has been changed as Smash become a bigger deal globally.

Actually, the Lucas bit is a bit misleading. He was going to cut Lucas at first after he found out Mother 3 wasn't getting localized. Instead he left the character in and made sure Ness was in to have two distinct playstyles to please vets and newer fans.

But yeah, this is the same reason Takamaru never got in. He's still too niche in the West at this time. Even after getting a translation it didn't matter.

 

[Iddis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo_sgxQ_xe0/

Idk if this was shared before, but this Samus vs. Pikachu match pleases me, lol

 

[Tree Gelbman]

you'd be disappointed with it if you liked any other final fantasy besides 13 too

This I whole-heartedly disagree with. I wasn't crazy about 13, but loved 15.

And 6 and 9 are my favorites so...

 

[Bionichute]

This I whole-heartedly disagree with. I wasn't crazy about 13, but loved 15.

And 6 and 9 are my favorites so...

well aside from 15 you got good taste

 

[Deleted member]

FF15 is better than 12.

 

[Graizen]

People , this is very important information here...
I asked Miss. Hitagi if Agumon was a Namco Bandai rep.
And she said this:

So this deconfirmes Agumon but confirmes that one of the DLC is a Namco Bandai rep?

My choices: Klonoa, Heihachi or Lloyd

 

[Bionichute]

People , this is very important information here...
I asked Miss. Hitagi if Agumon was a Namco Bandai rep.
And she said this:

View attachment 177063

So this deconfirmes Agumon but confirmes that one of the DLC is a Namco Bandai rep?

My choices: Klonoa, Heihachi or Lloyd

pac-man.... TWO

 

[Deleted member]

People , this is very important information here...
I asked Miss. Hitagi if Agumon was a Namco Bandai rep.
And she said this:

View attachment 177063

So this deconfirmes Agumon but confirmes that one of the DLC is a Namco Bandai rep?

My choices: Klonoa, Heihachi or Lloyd

Holy Wumpa!
That’s a good discovery.

I can see either Heihachi or Lloyd.

 

[Bionichute]

rx-78 or riot

 

[KMDP]

VGChartz can only really give you a "good guesstimate", honestly. My problem with the whole Isaac situation is really with how they've handled Golden Sun as a franchise after the first and second game.

Camelot has done a pretty poor job of trying to push the franchise in countries that aren't named "The United States of America", so when we see Isaac as an AT again, we can't go "WHAT THE ****, NINTENDO?!" because they've done a terrible job of trying to push the franchise. Wasn't the last game in the franchise not that good either, from what I've heard?

Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was good, just not up to the quality standard set by the previous two.

• It was essentially a soft reboot before soft reboots were a thing, and you know how much people love soft reboots, the four main party members were essentially just rehashes of four of the party members from the previous games, except flanderized.
• In terms of actual gameplay, it's actually on par with the originals, except for the rather big caveat that it had way too many Points of No Return (when the previous two had... basically zero). This makes 100% Completion an absolute nightmare, because you need a guide to not miss things.
• It's marketing and time of release did it absolutely no favours (it was barely marketed at all, and was released at the end of the DS's life cycle, a recipe for disastrous sales).

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

How much, on a scale of 1-10, is it likely something nintendo related would be shown on this event

There was a problem fetching the tweet

(Cross platform also counts)

 

[Deleted member]

People , this is very important information here...
I asked Miss. Hitagi if Agumon was a Namco Bandai rep.
And she said this:

View attachment 177063

So this deconfirmes Agumon but confirmes that one of the DLC is a Namco Bandai rep?

My choices: Klonoa, Heihachi or Lloyd

Or maybe this person is a fake?

Either way if theres a Namco rep it's 100% Heihachi. As much as I want KOS-MOS she's a near impossibility

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm still sticking to Geno, Heihachi, and a Nintendo all-star like Dixie as 3 of the DLCs.

I'm also pretty confident in Elma to be fair though.