Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hylian]

It sucks I was really looking forward to the future episodes being released. At least episode Ardyn got finished, still though Square is going to take a big hit with this one.

Can anyone give me a TL;DR on this situation?

 

[Fane]

What makes your most wanted newcomers likely and unlikely to be in Smash?

Some of these are more opinionated tbh

Skull Kid
+ Primary antagonist in one of the most iconic LoZ games
+ Would have a moveset entirely based on magic
+ Gives the LoZ series a much needed newcomer that is entirely unique
+ Popular among the LoZ and Smash community

- Assist Trophy
- One major appearance, with some minor cameos since
- Popularity increased greatly just recently
- LoZ seemingly being skipped over for unique and popular newcomers since Brawl

Sceptile
+ Fast, melee-oriented, grass-type Pokemon
+ Gen 3 representative
+ Very popular Pokemon
+ Easy and fun moveset potential

- Another Pokemon
- No longer a very relevant pick
- Wouldn't introduce a new type to be playable
- Another starter Pokemon, which isn't showing much diversity

Shadow
+ 2nd most popular Sonic character
+ Highly requested newcomer since Sonic's introduction
+ Easy to make as either an Echo fighter or unique newcomer and would satisfy either way
+ Sega has great relations with Nintendo so it wouldn't be tough to get him in

- Assist Trophy still
- Missed playable status in favor of being an Assist for three games now

Spyro
+ Very popular and iconic western character
+ New remakes of the original 3 games released recently
+ Would be the first ACTUAL playable dragon character
+ A wide variety of moves to use from all his appearances
+ Toys for Bob did collaborate with Nintendo in a Skylanders game for Bowser and Donkey Kong characters iirc

- Not a very big hit in Japan, therefore he's not as likely as others
- Reignited Trilogy is not currently slated to release on Nintendo platforms
- Skylanders in general really hurt Spyro's character itself to the point a lot of fans forgot and ceased to care about him

Azura
+ Very popular Fire Emblem character, one of the main characters of Fates
+ Amazing potential for a moveset that could include: Spears, water-bending, singing, and dragon veins
+ More female representation
+ A new Fire Emblem character that doesn't have a moveset derived from Marth's in any fashion

- Despite everything above, she's another Fire Emblem character...
- Not a huge demand for her to be playable

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just looked up how bad this situation is, and yeah. This is pretty bad. The fact that The Luminous Engine alone has costed Square 3.3 billion yen/$33M dollars is insane. I mean, yeah they'll still be alright, but even if we're comparing hits like the likes of Capcom, Konami, or what have you, this is a really big dent.

I really think if they wanna try and invest more faith in their investors and stockholders, Geno might be their best bet. Characters from Final Fantasy XV are probably the last thing they wanna think of at the moment, probably.

Why Geno? They can easily just get another Final Fantasy character like idk, Tifa, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, etc.

 

[PsySmasher]

So the last 30 seconds of this thing had a Facebook group I'm in bugging out due to having a phrase that resembled a certain verse in a certain song...
anyone have 2 cents on this?

Man. Nintendo is killing all their characters next month.

 

[A.G.L.]

Don't double post please

Apologies, wont do it again.

Just looked up how bad this situation is, and yeah. This is pretty bad. The fact that The Luminous Engine alone has costed Square 3.3 billion yen/$33M dollars is insane. I mean, yeah they'll still be alright, but even if we're comparing hits like the likes of Capcom, Konami, or what have you, this is a really big dent.

I really think if they wanna try and invest more faith in their investors and stockholders, Geno might be their best bet. Characters from Final Fantasy XV are probably the last thing they wanna think of at the moment, probably.

I would say yes, but I think Nintendo has already chosen their characters for the DLC if im not mistaken. It might be too late to try to influence the character they would choose now.

KHIII is out in 2 months and Square hasn't really been releasing much lately. Plus XV's development was a goddamn mess that just ate money and man hours

KH3 is their best bet right now to help recover some of the money they lost, but the situation is still bad. With one of their directors gone and a huge investment ruined. I wonder how they will try to recover from this situation.

 

[Idon]

Can anyone give me a TL;DR on this situation?

Square Enix lost 30 million dollars
all future dlc planned for FFXV sans the latest for Ardyn is cancelled.
The engine developed specifically for that game, the Luminous Engine is canned, and future projects will use Unreal Engine 4.
The director of that game, Tabata is leaving.
He hopes fans will support him on his next project, whatever it is.

 

[A.G.L.]

Can anyone give me a TL;DR on this situation?

Here is a link to some information. And there is more stuff still being updated, from what I understand all of this just happened.


https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-dlc-canceled-director-hajime-taba/1100-6463112/

 

[Bionichute]

Square Enix lost 3.3 billion dollars
all future dlc planned for FFXV sans the latest for Ardyn is cancelled
The director of that game, Tabata is leaving.
He hopes fans will support him on his next project, whatever it is.

no no no, they lost 3.3 billion yen... which translates to 30 million dollars

 

[Idon]

no no no, they lost 3.3 million yen... which translates to 30 million dollars

It's gone.
You have no proof.

 

[Bionichute]

It's gone.
You have no proof.

yeah i do, i quoted your post

and you also have evidence that i typoed billion as million

 

[NineS]

No exposure=No conflict
A negative opinion will cause more conflict than an absent one.

Ha! Nobody can ****-talk my game because no one's played it!
View attachment 176646

I wouldn't say NieR is unknown. That'd be saying a bit much.
I think it's more of, NieR is more unfamiliar in this community. The Smash Community. At least, it isn't widely considered. It isn't widely known in the Nintendo Community either for obvious reasons, but I hope that can change.

To give you an example,

Spoiler

This is how NieR has done on the PS4 compared to other games on the console in Japan. As you can see, it's surprisingly high on the list. Even higher if you only take the Square Enix games into account. Taking only the Square Enix games into account, it's only right behind FFXV (rip) and DQXI. Granted, this is only Japan. I couldn't find results for America. Note: This list was last updated Oct. 21st.

Not to mention, NieR seemed to have outperformed big franchises like Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest in 2017.

During the Nine-Month period ended December 31, 2017, while “DRAGON QUEST XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age,” the latest title of the “DRAGON QUEST” series and “FINAL FANTASY XII THE ZODIAC AGE” were launched, a decrease in the number of blockbuster titles resulted in net sales decline as compared to the same period of the prior fiscal year. On the other hand, strong high-margin download sales of previously released catalogue titles such as “NieR:Automata” have resulted in an increase of operating income, as compared to the same period of the prior fiscal year.

i'm just arguing with myself at this point, aren't I?

 

[Deleted member]

Why Geno? They can easily just get another Final Fantasy character like idk, Tifa, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, etc.

Here's the problem with that: Final Fantasy is only represented as Final Fantasy VII, and if we're still only going to get 2 songs from the original game, I don't have much faith in us ever getting another Final Fantasy VII character like Tifa or Sephiroth, most likely given with how expensive using the license and property is, if that interview with Sakurai gave us any indication.

Putting in Geno would give many Smash fans and other fans outside of the Smash circle to even take a look and be surprised, it'll attract a lot of eyes and good faith, thus rolling in the profits and stocks rising, even the smallest push, at the very least. And if the Diablo Immortal fiasco has taught us, investors will reflect with how your treat your audience.

I would say yes, but I think Nintendo has already chosen their characters for the DLC if im not mistaken. It might be too late to try to influence the character they would choose now.

Smash Ultimate's DLC cycle is planned to continue until February 2020, there's at least a tiny bit of wiggle room to change around some things a bit. We've seen it with the September Direct during the Hokkaido Earthquake with some announcements that was included in said Direct, and especially changing the media plan with different Japanese media outlets, so I wouldn't be surprised if Square pulled that same thing.

 

[MagnesD3]

Crash over Spyro for Smash.

There, NOW we got a real argument for the thread.

Why not both :3

 

[Idon]

yeah i do, i quoted your post

and you also have evidence that i typoed billion as million

Nah son, all of it's doctored.
Fake news.
It's a well known fact I have never done anything wrong in my entire life.

 

[Knight Dude]

Square Enix lost 30 million dollars
all future dlc planned for FFXV sans the latest for Ardyn is cancelled
The director of that game, Tabata is leaving.
He hopes fans will support him on his next project, whatever it is.

Wouldn't that mostly be because Nomura kept throwing money at FF15? Why is Tabata leaving? He was the reason the game could even come out.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't say NieR is unknown. That's be saying a bit much.
I think it's more of, NieR is more unfamiliar in this community. The Smash Community. At least, it isn't widely considered. It isn't widely known in the Nintendo Community either for obvious reasons, but I hope that can change.

To give you an example,

Spoiler

EXCUSE ME,
BUT DO I SEE
KNACK IN THE TOP 20?

GAME OF THE YEAR IS STILL ON TOP, BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

 

[Bionichute]

Wouldn't that mostly be because Nomura kept throwing money at FF15? Why is Tabata leaving? He was the reason the game could even come out.

because, if the reaction to kojima being fired from konami says anything, letting go of their most well known personnel would be a terrible idea

 

[A.G.L.]

Why Geno? They can easily just get another Final Fantasy character like idk, Tifa, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, etc.

They need to put a character that is extremely going to help them cross promote and is a fan favorite. FF characters won't help them cross promote unless they add someone from FF14, due to FF15 being put in permanent hiatus.

I can see a Dragon Quest character potentially working, but that is a bit of a gamble. Dragon Quest is more loved in the east than in the west. They need a character that is globally popular and that will help them cross promote current titles. However all of this, may be too late as I am not sure if Sakurai and Nintendo have already chosen the character to be their rep.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Wouldn't that mostly be because Nomura kept throwing money at FF15? Why is Tabata leaving? He was the reason the game could even come out.

The money seems to have more to do with restructuring Luminous Productions. It was only set up this year, which would be a heavy investment but before even making anything its focus has been completely changed.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Not that I don't respect your opinion, but calling Xenoblade's gameplay "awful" implies the game is objectively bad. I actually enjoy it, but I absolutely would not want Pokémon to play like it. Instead of acting like the game is bad, why not simply state that you don't like it?

Okay yeah I was being way too harsh.

What I really meant was that combat system is heavily flawed. It's purpose is to attempt to replicate JRPG combat without breaking the immersion, but it ends up losing many of the strategic elements of turn based combat. Not to mention its several needless complexities.

Xenoblade is a game where the appeal is exploring and characters/story, not the actual gameplay experience. I'm not sure that all the needless complexities I associate with Monolith would work well for the friendly and approachable Pokemon series at all.

 

[A.G.L.]

Here's the problem with that: Final Fantasy is only represented as Final Fantasy VII, and if we're still only going to get 2 songs from the original game, I don't have much faith in us ever getting another Final Fantasy VII character like Tifa or Sephiroth, most likely given with how expensive using the license and property is, if that interview with Sakurai gave us any indication.

Putting in Geno would give many Smash fans and other fans outside of the Smash circle to even take a look and be surprised, it'll attract a lot of eyes and good faith, thus rolling in the profits and stocks rising, even the smallest push, at the very least. And if the Diablo Immortal fiasco has taught us, investors will reflect with how your treat your audience.



Smash Ultimate's DLC cycle is planned to continue until February 2020, there's at least a tiny bit of wiggle room to change around some things a bit. We've seen it with the September Direct during the Hokkaido Earthquake with some announcements that was included in said Direct, and especially changing the media plan with different Japanese media outlets, so I wouldn't be surprised if Square pulled that same thing.

I would say as of now, if there was ever a hope for Geno fans this may be it. With Square being pushed up against the wall, they may try to change the character they originally chose to get the fans on their side again. Time will tell how this whole issue will affect Smash Ultimate.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Square Enix lost 30 million dollars
all future dlc planned for FFXV sans the latest for Ardyn is cancelled
The director of that game, Tabata is leaving.
He hopes fans will support him on his next project, whatever it is.

Oh wow. That's a pretty big blow to the company.

 

[Idon]

Wouldn't that mostly be because Nomura kept throwing money at FF15? Why is Tabata leaving? He was the reason the game could even come out.

I've no idea the inner workings of SE or the reasons for any of this.
I'm just giving a TL;DR

 

[Bionichute]

or it could just be a dragon quest character and nothing changes

 

[NineS]

EXCUSE ME,
BUT DO I SEE
KNACK IN THE TOP 20?

GAME OF THE YEAR IS STILL ON TOP, BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

you act surprised.
i thought we knew knack was the best game ever?

also, since I have the chance,

Spoiler

Note: Again, this list was last updated as of Oct. 21, 2018.

Even taking into account the games Enix has on the Switch with the PS4's,in Japan, Square Enix only, NieR still does amazingly well. Fourth place, third if you count both versions of FFXV as one.

Also, since I forgot, source: https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

It's amazingly successful, both here and in Japan. Granted, it's more common in Japan, but it's still gained a large amount of popularity in the West that keeps growing because Square Enix continues to try and bring awareness to NieR, one of the most recent notable ways is DLC for SC 6.
They see NieR as a potential huge moneymaker now, since 2017. And boy am I happy about that.

I mean, it was also Platinum Game's saving grace too. The company would've gone bankrupt if not for NieR and Yoko Taro, they said it themselves. Inadvertently, if it wasn't for Yoko Taro, Bayonetta 3 wouldn't be on it's way. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...aved-platinumgames-according-to-hideki-kamiya

 

[PsySmasher]

Square Enix lost 30 million dollars
all future dlc planned for FFXV sans the latest for Ardyn is cancelled
The director of that game, Tabata is leaving.
He hopes fans will support him on his next project, whatever it is.

OOF.
That's really rough for Square and FFXV fans.
Hope Tabata succeeds in his future projects.
Maybe they can now put more focus on FFVII remake though.

 

[Idon]

, NieR is more unfamiliar in this community

And there you go.

You and I both know there's like a dozen people total that have played Nier Automata.

 

[DraginHikari]

I really hope in light of Tabata leaving Square and them losing $33 million. That they chose their 2nd DLC rep in Smash Bros carefully, they are going to need all the help they can get right now.

I think your heavily overstating Smash's influence in that regards.

 

[Deleted member]

you act surprised.
i thought we knew knack was the best game ever?

also, since I have the chance,

Spoiler

Note: Again, this list was last updated as of Oct. 21, 2018.

Even taking into account the games Enix has on the Switch with the PS4's,in Japan, Square Enix only, NieR still does amazingly well. Fourth place, third if you count both versions of FFXV as one.

Also, since I forgot, source: https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

It's amazingly successful, both here and in Japan. Granted, it's more common in Japan, but it's still gained a large amount of popularity in the West that keeps growing because Square Enix continues to try and bring awareness to NieR, one of the most recent notable ways is DLC for SC 6.

World of Final Fantasy Maxima should be interesting to see, because I see the Switch version outselling the PS4 and Xbox One versions. Also, wow. That game only got a Xbox One physical release. Yikes.

Honestly, I'm just surprised we haven't seen NieR: Automata come to the Switch yet. We've seen time and time again that the Switch is very capable, and if it can run Civilization VI, then that means something. Hell, the ****ing game is on the Xbox One, and we all know that isn't "on level" with PS4, power-wise.

 

[PLATINUM7]

OOF.
That's really rough for Square and FFXV fans.
Hope Tabata succeeds in his future projects.
Maybe they can now put more focus on FFVII remake though.

This won't really mean much for the VII Remake unless Luminous is put to work on it.

Nomura's heading the remake but until KHIII is done, isn't focusing on it. Also Luminous was only set up this year and only now has AAA game development as their focus. There's a completely different development team working on the VII Remake.

 

[lordvaati]

you could pretty much say that NieR:A in a nutshell is "that game that is the reason Platinum Games didn't go out of business after SF0 underperformed and Scalebound was cancelled" and I think many here would get the general gist.

But yeah I want a switch port of that game so bad. Even if it is like the 3rd game in the series or something.

 

[Deleted member]

I would say as of now, if there was ever a hope for Geno fans this may be it. With Square being pushed up against the wall, they may try to change the character they originally chose to get the fans on their side again. Time will tell how this whole issue will affect Smash Ultimate.

To add onto this, and to give more clarity as to why the investors would be pleased to see Square choose Geno, the Diablo Immortal disaster incident really gave insight that treating your audience will reflect on your financial reports, as shown here.

Pretty much, if Square chooses Geno and both them and Nintendo negotiated, went to Sakurai, and which obviously we know Sakurai would choose him right off the bat, this will only net good faith to investors and the fans.

 

[NineS]

World of Final Fantasy Maxima should be interesting to see, because I see the Switch version outselling the PS4 and Xbox One versions. Also, wow. That game only got a Xbox One physical release. Yikes.

Honestly, I'm just surprised we haven't seen NieR: Automata come to the Switch yet. We've seen time and time again that the Switch is very capable, and if it can run Civilization VI, then that means something. Hell, the ****ing game is on the Xbox One, and we all know that isn't "on level" with PS4, power-wise.

Well, to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if it's because Platinum Game's current priorities are with Bayo 3.
However, they did say around the middle of June that they wanted to see the game on the switch. "They" being Yoko Taro, Yosuke Saito, Takahisa Taura, and likely more members of Platinum Games. Betting Hideki Kamiya himself wants to see the game succeed more as well.

I wouldn't be shocked if they're working on it right now for the switch, but I can only hope that this is the case. Nintendo is losing out.

 

[A.G.L.]

I think your heavily overstating Smash's influence in that regards.

Not necessarily, Smash acts like a giant advertisement. If they were to add a Dragon Quest character or Sora, this could help them introduce characters to people who may not know who they are or who haven't played those games. This could help draw interest in the series and help them make more sales with that specific game franchise. We see this happening with Smash all the time, its a big advertisement for that character and its game series.

 

[NineS]

And there you go.

You and I both know there's like a dozen people total that have played Nier Automata.

Maybe slightly over a dozen people on smashboards, but overall, still significantly popular overall in the U.S., just not as popular in Japan.
Those are numbers I expect to see grow more with time, however, thanks to what Square has been doing for a while now to bring awareness to it. Even people who haven't played it are still at least somewhat aware of it here, and I'm just trying to bring more awareness to it myself, regardless of whether or not 2B actually makes it into Smash. I don't actually think she will or she's likely this time for the Fighter's Pass DLC, but that optimistic and hopeful bit of me wants to say otherwise. However, I know I cannot trust myself for those sorts of things. If I can bring more people awareness of the franchise, however, my job is done.

 

[A.G.L.]

To add onto this, and to give more clarity as to why the investors would be pleased to see Square choose Geno, the Diablo Immortal disaster incident really gave insight that treating your audience will reflect on your financial reports, as shown here.

View attachment 176653

Pretty much, if Square chooses Geno and both them and Nintendo negotiated, went to Sakurai, and which obviously we know Sakurai would choose him right off the bat, this will only net good faith to investors and the fans.

I agree, Square might want to try avoiding a similar mistake like that of Blizzard. Right now they need their investors and their fans. KH3 most likely will help to bail them out, but adding Geno in Smash could also help them. It will show that despite letting FF15 fans down, they still have their fans interests at heart. I can definitely see the scenario you just presented play out now.

 

[DraginHikari]

To add onto this, and to give more clarity as to why the investors would be pleased to see Square choose Geno, the Diablo Immortal disaster incident really gave insight that treating your audience will reflect on your financial reports, as shown here.

View attachment 176653

Pretty much, if Square chooses Geno and both them and Nintendo negotiated, went to Sakurai, and which obviously we know Sakurai would choose him right off the bat, this will only net good faith to investors and the fans.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. These are two very different situations we're talking about here we're talking about a reaction to a positive situation compared to a negative, which negative customer experiences have far more direct impact on a company's image as people remember the negative more so then the positive. I think it tends to overstate Geno's actual popularity as a whole as a goodwill statement from SE. I doubt it would have huge impact one way or another.

The whole reason the Diablos Immortal situations was so disastrous was revealing a mobile spin off at Blizzcon which has traditionally been focused on PC Gamers and thought that was the proper channel to reveal such a title. They screwed up by making the mobile title a focal point to an audience that wasn't going to receive it well and Activision Blizzard should have known that. The reaction of the developers didn't help quell the fire and only made things worse.

Not necessarily, Smash acts like a giant advertisement. If they were to add a Dragon Quest character or Sora, this could help them introduce characters to people who may not know who they are or who haven't played those games. This could help draw interest in the series and help them make more sales with that specific game franchise. We see this happening with Smash all the time, its a big advertisement for that character and its game series.

I think this is something that also overstated more often then not. This only seems to work on extremely obsure titles. It worked most for Fire Emblem in Melee mostly because that was still a time where most people had simply never heard of it at all because it was still the early days of the internet. Possibly Xenoblade with Shulk since the game was still kind of rare at the time and was still mostly a cult following. Dragon Quest is not popular is the west but I'm not sure I'd call it obscure as most gamers I know are familiar with the series even though they have no interest in it.. Kingdom Hearts is definitely not either. I just don't really believe for the most part as Smash has as much impact as the community here likes to think that it does. It can help things that have been forgotten about or is relatively unknown but I don't believe for titles that are just not that popular among a particular group of people.

 

[dilfsR'us]

so ive been gone for a day or two, any new news on the potential direct for tommorow?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's the problem with that: Final Fantasy is only represented as Final Fantasy VII, and if we're still only going to get 2 songs from the original game, I don't have much faith in us ever getting another Final Fantasy VII character like Tifa or Sephiroth, most likely given with how expensive using the license and property is, if that interview with Sakurai gave us any indication.

Putting in Geno would give many Smash fans and other fans outside of the Smash circle to even take a look and be surprised, it'll attract a lot of eyes and good faith, thus rolling in the profits and stocks rising, even the smallest push, at the very least. And if the Diablo Immortal fiasco has taught us, investors will reflect with how your treat your audience.



Smash Ultimate's DLC cycle is planned to continue until February 2020, there's at least a tiny bit of wiggle room to change around some things a bit. We've seen it with the September Direct during the Hokkaido Earthquake with some announcements that was included in said Direct, and especially changing the media plan with different Japanese media outlets, so I wouldn't be surprised if Square pulled that same thing.

Wait so Square may settle for Geno because they're suffering a loss

But they wouldn't let Nintendo use more of their most iconic franhise in which every protagonist from 4 to 10 is more iconic than Geno? That... That doesn't make much sense to me

 

[Idon]

so ive been gone for a day or two, any new news on the potential direct for tommorow?

Nope.
It's possible the source might've gotten the wrong date.

He seemed confident that there would be one November at least.