Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DerpingPikachu]

View attachment 173090
I know this doesn't contribute anything to the conversation but I have it lol

Thought I was the only one lmao

 

[Saelind Genesis]

What if the green pixel isn't Isaac, but the Grinch

 

[kirbsmash]

any thoughts on Smash Tour? I know that it have NOTHING to do wit the leak but any thoughts on this mode ?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Based on what I've been seeing in here, ALL 1043 OF US NEED TO LISTEN UP. HEAR HEAR.

Yes, it's been an exciting day especially if you want this leak to be real. Yes, there's "evidence" that this thing could be real and that this roster will be quite possibly the greatest in history.

However, we all need to take a deep breath and realize that, holy ****, there's a good chance this leak could still be fake. Just because this thing looks amazing doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws that could debunk the whole thing.

Just because we're surrounded with people who want this to be real and, therefore, are going to highlight things that make this seem real and downplay that which makes it seem fake, doesn't suddenly mean this leak is clear and totally going to 100% happen.

Do I want this leak to be real? Yes. It removes any sort of disappointment for me for base roster, and sets me up to potentially never have to actively speculate ever again unless the next Smash is an actual port of all content from Ultimate. Yes, of COURSE I want Isaac, Shadow, Geno, Banjo, Ken, and the Chorus Kids. That's literally not even a question.

I think we all want it to be real.

However, just because what we see and what we WANT to see can be mixed up and suggest things that aren't there, it doesn't mean that we should buy into literally everything that seems like a cohesive point. From what I've seen, I'm leaning to it being real. But I'm not close to 100%. I'm actively nervous it's fake because there are solid arguments that it absolutely could be an utterly fantastic ruse.

The result of this could absolutely be Saltboards 2018, and massive hatred toward Nintendo, Ken, and Incineroar. This isn't confirmed, and it won't be until we see it in action. Keep that in mind.

Sincerely, Scoliosis Jones. AKA the guy that will probably be calling people out if they lash out because they got misled by a leak and didn't allow themselves to keep an open mind. Please, please keep your expectations in check. If you'll be fine with the leak being fake, then that's great. But I'm not so sure that a majority of people here are going to be able to properly do that.

There is also the possibility that none of those leaked characters, including Incineroar are in at all, and that we're getting completely different people. Now that would be the bamboozling of the decade.

 

[Confirmation]

Compositionally, I really can't find anything wrong with it.

Regardless, I despite it with every fiber of my being. It feels wrong. Gross, even.

You're a mean one, Mr. Critic

 

[Tew]

Clap*...clap*...clap*
Takes a step outside of the Shadow of Lurking*:

I am following the Leak and especially this thread since it first came up and I have to say it was and still is a wild ride. Regardless of if the Leak Ends up true, fake, or something in between, I think there is no doubt that this is one of the biggest, maybe the biggest, Leak the Smash Community has ever seen. It feels like everyone and everything is included and each hour new conspiracies, Information, hints, leaks, and co Pop up, yet neither side really takes the upper Hand and shifts the discussion in one clear direction. It´s getting more insane than Junko from Danganronpa with more Twists than a well-known song by Chubby Checker. Who would have expected a few days ago, that many would soon analyze a single green Pixel, Renders for the upcoming animated Grinch movie, the history of a French Marketing Company, a small sprout item, wristbands, a LinkedIn account of a ~50 year old French worker...

I honestly have no idea at this Point what to believe anymore. I wouldn´t be surprised if we only end up with Ken and Incineroar or Maybe no more Newcomer at all. But I also wouldn´t be surprised if Sakurai decided to put his mind into a Computer, so he could work non-stop on Smash without the Need to Sleep and added Geno, Banjo, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Ken, Shadow, Isaac, Incineroar, Sora and, who knows, Maybe a few more.

Well, I guess it´s time to send myself to the Shadow Realm again and watch this craziness in silence, waiting for the inevitable Grinch for Smash Ultimate Reveal.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I hate to say this, I really do...

But...
What if the Grinch Leak is the leak bait...


Please God don’t kill me for saying that

 

[FlappyFalco]

"None of the grinch renders being as new as we thought" What do you mean? Surely you can't be referring to the banjo/chorus kids renders, those were debunked a while ago.

No, I mean the renders of the Grinch and his dog seen in the leak had been released by Universal beforehand.

 

[xpnc]

What if the green pixel isn't Isaac, but the Grinch

A fine compromise

 

[Untouch]

There is no green there, and wouldn't be even after a thousand iterations. There is NO Blue/yellow component in anything in the proximity of that image. It is IMPOSSIBLE for it to get to green.

Stop using bad tech arguments if you don't have any idea please. It's the third time we have commented on this. (Two myself and one another person)

The green is on olimar's cuff.

Like I said, this is caused by the compression.

 

[Plumstar]

Me after reading all these hints/theories that link to the Grinch Leak:

This has to stop. I don't think I can survive when I here this leak everywhere I go online. I was always on Team Hmmm, but now I don't know what to think anymore. This can't be a coincidence, is this part of the leaker's master plan?!! We really need that direct.
... and I need to see a Doctor.

 

[Buzzwole]

Less than 40 days left. I dunno what Nintendo is doing, but after the ESRB leaks last time, you'd think they would have wanted to have officially revealed everything by now.

 

[HeroOfClocktown]

Sorry but I just woke up and don’t understand what’s going on with this crop theory.. can somebody please elaborate what the crops are supposed to mean ? Does it support or go against the leak?

Are people basically saying the banner with all the characters was already finished (including Banjo, Isaac etc) and the very first direct we got back in E3 just showed a banner with less characters ?

So in other words, the leaked banner artwork(Banjo,Isaac,etc) was already complete prior to E3, and any other banner we’ve gotten so far has just been a result of cropping out any additional characters rather than adding them in later on ?

 

[Union of Darkness]

any thoughts on Smash Tour? I know that it have NOTHING to do wit the leak but any thoughts on this mode ?

No one likes it, I can say that much.

 

[Cosmic77]

I hate to say this, I really do...

But...
What if the Grinch Leak is the leak bait...


Please God don’t kill me for saying that

Then we're all a bunch of saps.

 

[Heartz♥]

Alright, I've been studying the damn mural for WAY too long now and getting upset at how many people don't get how it works, so let me try to explain it as a graphic designer that's used Photoshop and similar programs for a long time.

Back at E3, we got a full scale version of the leak. It can be found here on PidgiWiki, a site that gathers giant resolution press images. It is slightly over 20k x 4k pixels with 300 DPI resolution. It's a gigantic image. The detailing in it is amazing. You can see Falco's individual feathers. You can see LUCINA'S EMBLEM EYE.

Spoiler: Big Lucina

View attachment 173051

This image is gigantic and finely detailed. This isn't something they'd make and then start adding to haphazardly, this is something they surely planned out carefully and fully before digitally painting it at this massive size. As such, I'm 100% sure the first version of the mural they made was the one with EVERY CHARACTER on it, unannounced ones included.
The image has at least 1 layer group for the background. We have never had an instance where the background has moved at all so it can't be said how many layers make it up for sure. After that, EVERY character is painted IN FULL in their own layer/layer group. These character paintings are used in other promotional material like the cover of the box.
Characters are 100% INDEPENDANT FROM EACH OTHER. Even the ones that are interacting like the pokemon to wario and dedede are in their own, isolated layers with no lighting or ANYTHING from the other affecting them. Basically, consider every character in the mural as their own seperate backless PNG for the purpose of considering things. Some of them, like Ryu, have a glow around them. That glow is ALSO tied to their layer/layer group and moves purely with them. It doesn't ACTUALLY change any colors of the characters below it, it just looks like it does when the layers are finally saved into a single JPG. Also, extra special effects like Inkling's ink splashes are the same. They're in the characters layer/layer group, move with them when they shift, and DON'T affect any other character in an actual way.

So they have a gigantic mural with every character on it, and each character is TOTALLY ISOLATED onto their own layer. Next, they would turn off all the new characters and fill in the gaps by moving the other characters around and scaling them slightly. This is how we wind up with the mural we got at E3. We have no hints at other characters because, again, every character is an isolated layer so turning off a character is turning off EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF THEM IN THE IMAGE. There's literally no trace of them remaining.
Once they got all the new characters turned off, then they make a SECOND version of the mural. Every mural thus far actually has had two versions, the regular mural with everyone in one shot, and the looping mural. The looping mural always has characters in the foreground shift upwards and move somewhat to reveal more of the ground below. This is because the looping mural is only used in the site and that extra space is where the site starts.
View attachment 173071
Here's the current version in both full and loop form. As an aside, this is where that "the background changed caue the crystal under megaman disappeared!" misconception came from. You can see in the gif, loop megaman is higher up than regular megaman, just enough that the crystal becomes uncovered.

Anywho, now we got two versions of the gigantic mural, the regular and the loop. From here, every piece of advertising using the mural is derived. Everything takes the mural and DOWNSCALES IT as much as is needed. It's important to remember though, downscaling an image will kill quality and cause artifacts. Pixels will become sharper, some pixels where colors are touching may change color slightly may change slightly, details will be totally lost.
As another aside, the same happens when upscaling, BUT WORSE. Upscaling involves a program straight up GUESSING what a pixel should be. NEVER upscale something to prove a point.
The looped mural is downscaled to around 680 height, so almost 6x smaller, then it is cut up into 6 equal pieces. Those pieces are put on the smash site in a gallery widgit that does a constant scroll.
The regular image is used for everything else. It's downscaled and slapped onto whatever they need it slapped onto. But as far as I've seen, NOTHING ever has had it edited slightly from the original. What I mean is, everything with the mural on it matches perfectly to the regular version of the mural. No characters are ever moved or squashed or anything to accomedate what it's being put onto. They have the mural exactly how they want it, it isn't shifted for any small advertising piece. Nothing changes until a new version is released.
Thus far, there's been 4 versions: E3 without Ridley or Daisy only shown during the Direct, E3 with Ridley and Daisy, 8/8 with K. Rool and the gang, and Isabelle.

Spoiler: Comparing changes between versions (including leak)

Pardon the ****ty job I did lining them up, but here's all of them lined up including the best I could line up the Grinch leak:
View attachment 173086
And, since as I said they almost certainly STARTED with the full mural of all characters, here's the order it would have been made in:
View attachment 173088

There, that's my whole explanation about how the mural is made and how it works. I hope I explained things clearly.

This could have been explained with a single sentence, but I'm sure many are grateful lol

 

[Saelind Genesis]

The green is on olimar's cuff.

View attachment 173095

Like I said, this is caused by the compression.

Is compression the name of the magic Isaac is using in the Grinch Leak??

 

[Luigifan18]

Yeah...I forgot about the blog numbers. That's a decent point against this image thing. Doesn't kill the leak entirely of course, but it does remove some evidence. Granted, there's still a formidable pile of evidence in its favor, so it doesn't change much.

Ugh...I'm getting motion sickness from all the flip-flopping. Can we get off the ride now?

This speculation season has been a rollercoaster indeed. and this wait between Isabelle and our next reveal has been the WORST. so much could be solved by just showing 1 character. and then we could all cool are jets and hopefully just enjoy the rest of the hype season.

Too bad.

 

[Untouch]

Is compression the name of the magic Isaac is using in the Grinch Leak??

It was when you guys tried to explain away the crystals changing size.

 

[SimonferSmash]

Really hoping we get a direct announcement sooner than later.

 

[Kurodyne]

Okay so what's the big thing I missed cause it's obviously big enough for just shy of 1k people to be on here

Nothing has happened for a while afaik, just reaching at artifacts

I just have nothing better to do but nothing to contribute either, so

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I hate to say this, I really do...

But...
What if the Grinch Leak is the leak bait...


Please God don’t kill me for saying that

I mean that's just mean of Nintendo if that's the case

I've also considered the possibility of the banner including dlc characters, which is why there are so many, but I also believe Incineroar is happening so that wouldn't make much sense.

 

[DiamondJoyride]

It would be absolutely hilarious if, let's say, hypothetically, Isaac AND Incineroar get announced in the next direct. Everyone reacts accordingly, and then the banner shows up.

Incineroar is placed behind Sonic. And Isaac is placed exactly where he is in the leak.

Confusion ensues. I think that'd be incredible ngl.

 

[Untouch]

Tthis picture was a jpeg in an image captured by someone and saved as a JPEG, then uploaded to an archive, then downloaded from that archive then posted again.
It's gone through multiple layers of compression.

 

[Phyr]

The green is on olimar's cuff.

View attachment 173095

Like I said, this is caused by the compression.

Uhm, touché,although I looked 2 times with photoshop in a 16x16 zone looking for any BY components. You are right that grey might leak into others pixels. Still is highly unlikely because of how saturated the other colors are, the dictionary wouldn't go for something like that when it's so unique in the image..., and by median standarts it would be override to brown because of red/gray/yellow.

Alas, it's certainly not impossible.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a serious divide between people and insiders than now. Even with content creators like RogersBase and GX, people are just turning away from them. But to be fair, a LOT of people who're either an "insider" got themselves in their situation, and I think we can all agree on that, and why we feel this way.

I think at this rate, I don't see the problem with saying why it's fake or saying what your sources saying. Hell, it'll practically help qualm the situation from reaching more insane heights as they've gotten to, now. For example, Spawn Wave's sources doesn't know about this Grinch Leak, but they do know about The Game Awards and Sora in Smash Ultimate, so Spawn has been dropping hints here and there ever since a few months or so.

Then you have people who've been absolutely hypocritical. Liam Robertson, PushDustin, what have you - they've all recently pretty much said some of the most asinine things you can do and/or generalized all Smash fans as idiots pretty much. Whether it's "Nintendo is full of stubborn, conservative Japanese men" to "Please Smash fans, stop being assholes" but have called someone an idiot for making a fake Akuma leak, your "credibility" may be there, but it'll forever get overshadowed by the actions you portray/do amongst other Smash fans.

And I think that right there, is why people are pushing general joes like papagenos who's been one of the VERY FEW who've been humble and try to at least give something non-biased, WITH giving his sources' info out to everyone. We're tired of walking on eggshells, we're tired of this back and forth, and we're DEFINITELY tired of LaxChris having one more "OCTOBER 29TH CONFIRMED LEAK!!!" video shoved down our throats.

Transparency is key, and that's the unfortunate problem, thus leading a lot of people to Team Real.

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

Alright, I've been studying the damn mural for WAY too long now and getting upset at how many people don't get how it works, so let me try to explain it as a graphic designer that's used Photoshop and similar programs for a long time.

Back at E3, we got a full scale version of the leak. It can be found here on PidgiWiki, a site that gathers giant resolution press images. It is slightly over 20k x 4k pixels with 300 DPI resolution. It's a gigantic image. The detailing in it is amazing. You can see Falco's individual feathers. You can see LUCINA'S EMBLEM EYE.

Spoiler: Big Lucina

View attachment 173051

This image is gigantic and finely detailed. This isn't something they'd make and then start adding to haphazardly, this is something they surely planned out carefully and fully before digitally painting it at this massive size. As such, I'm 100% sure the first version of the mural they made was the one with EVERY CHARACTER on it, unannounced ones included.
The image has at least 1 layer group for the background. We have never had an instance where the background has moved at all so it can't be said how many layers make it up for sure. After that, EVERY character is painted IN FULL in their own layer/layer group. These character paintings are used in other promotional material like the cover of the box.
Characters are 100% INDEPENDANT FROM EACH OTHER. Even the ones that are interacting like the pokemon to wario and dedede are in their own, isolated layers with no lighting or ANYTHING from the other affecting them. Basically, consider every character in the mural as their own seperate backless PNG for the purpose of considering things. Some of them, like Ryu, have a glow around them. That glow is ALSO tied to their layer/layer group and moves purely with them. It doesn't ACTUALLY change any colors of the characters below it, it just looks like it does when the layers are finally saved into a single JPG. Also, extra special effects like Inkling's ink splashes are the same. They're in the characters layer/layer group, move with them when they shift, and DON'T affect any other character in an actual way.

So they have a gigantic mural with every character on it, and each character is TOTALLY ISOLATED onto their own layer. Next, they would turn off all the new characters and fill in the gaps by moving the other characters around and scaling them slightly. This is how we wind up with the mural we got at E3. We have no hints at other characters because, again, every character is an isolated layer so turning off a character is turning off EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF THEM IN THE IMAGE. There's literally no trace of them remaining.
Once they got all the new characters turned off, then they make a SECOND version of the mural. Every mural thus far actually has had two versions, the regular mural with everyone in one shot, and the looping mural. The looping mural always has characters in the foreground shift upwards and move somewhat to reveal more of the ground below. This is because the looping mural is only used in the site and that extra space is where the site starts.
View attachment 173071
Here's the current version in both full and loop form. As an aside, this is where that "the background changed caue the crystal under megaman disappeared!" misconception came from. You can see in the gif, loop megaman is higher up than regular megaman, just enough that the crystal becomes uncovered.

Anywho, now we got two versions of the gigantic mural, the regular and the loop. From here, every piece of advertising using the mural is derived. Everything takes the mural and DOWNSCALES IT as much as is needed. It's important to remember though, downscaling an image will kill quality and cause artifacts. Pixels will become sharper, some pixels where colors are touching may change color slightly may change slightly, details will be totally lost.
As another aside, the same happens when upscaling, BUT WORSE. Upscaling involves a program straight up GUESSING what a pixel should be. NEVER upscale something to prove a point.
The looped mural is downscaled to around 680 height, so almost 6x smaller, then it is cut up into 6 equal pieces. Those pieces are put on the smash site in a gallery widgit that does a constant scroll.
The regular image is used for everything else. It's downscaled and slapped onto whatever they need it slapped onto. But as far as I've seen, NOTHING ever has had it edited slightly from the original. What I mean is, everything with the mural on it matches perfectly to the regular version of the mural. No characters are ever moved or squashed or anything to accomedate what it's being put onto. They have the mural exactly how they want it, it isn't shifted for any small advertising piece. Nothing changes until a new version is released.
Thus far, there's been 4 versions: E3 without Ridley or Daisy only shown during the Direct, E3 with Ridley and Daisy, 8/8 with K. Rool and the gang, and Isabelle.

Spoiler: Comparing changes between versions (including leak)

Pardon the ****ty job I did lining them up, but here's all of them lined up including the best I could line up the Grinch leak:
View attachment 173086
And, since as I said they almost certainly STARTED with the full mural of all characters, here's the order it would have been made in:
View attachment 173088

There, that's my whole explanation about how the mural is made and how it works. I hope I explained things clearly.

Youre ****ing amazing dude. Thanks for your insight. Very helpful stuff.

 

[Potato_]

That's my issue with all of these leaks honestly, people clinge to it being real, or want it to be real so much that they try to use the fault of ESRB to mock any counter argument.

This is such a pet peeve of mine you don't even know.

Clearly because that ended up being true this thing MUST be true, despite the fact that they're two completely different situations.

They're both leaks, so they must be the same.

Less than 40 days left. I dunno what Nintendo is doing, but after the ESRB leaks last time, you'd think they would have wanted to have officially revealed everything by now.

At this point I have no idea what Nintendo is doing. I'm sure they have their reasons, I just hope they pull off this finale well.

 

[CheckmateChuck]

This thread is starting to get a little heated for my taste. Guys, just a quick reminder that you can disagree on things without being snippy about it.

 

[Naiko3232]

On another note, the "Your a mean one" song for the grinch film came out and its... something: https://youtu.be/dvzT-6QNzdc

they took the video down, probably smash fans were literally 100% of the comments

 

[drag0nscythe]

Oh boy. Anger. All yall need to understand that the box is the only real truth. There is 2 left. It is ken and inciniroar. Get over it and enjoy smash.
peace out.

 

[KMDP]

There is also the possibility that none of those leaked characters, including Incineroar are in at all, and that we're getting completely different people. Now that would be the bamboozling of the decade.

No, "the bamboozling of the decade" would be if Smash Ultimate itself is a fake leak/leak bait.

 

[ItsZant]

https://twitter.com/RelaxAlax/status/1056699985570422784

So does this support or hurt the leak? Kind of confused.

 

[SimonferSmash]

Wanted to bring this up here even though I don't expect much response to it but why do most folks still take what was shown during the August direct as the final song count for certain franchises since the title was still very much in development at that point and the fact Sakurai made mention that adjustments were still being made to the music as a whole during his Famitsu column in early September when he discussed the soundtrack development.

 

[ekc]

This is the most thought I've ever put into Olimar in my entire life, so there's that.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

https://twitter.com/RelaxAlax/status/1056699985570422784

So does this support or hurt the leak? Kind of confused.

I can't read that.

Why does everyone assume we're all ants here in the Smash fandom?

 

[SushiRoll]

I hate to say this, I really do...

But...
What if the Grinch Leak is the leak bait...


Please God don’t kill me for saying that

It would be hilarious actually.
Sakurai tricks us all into thinking we're getting the dream roster. Then he pulls the rug out from under us and in reality all that's left is a bland echo and incelroar.

 

[doomedtacox]

Based on what I've been seeing in here, ALL 1043 OF US NEED TO LISTEN UP. HEAR HEAR.

Yes, it's been an exciting day especially if you want this leak to be real. Yes, there's "evidence" that this thing could be real and that this roster will be quite possibly the greatest in history.

However, we all need to take a deep breath and realize that, holy ****, there's a good chance this leak could still be fake. Just because this thing looks amazing doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws that could debunk the whole thing.

Just because we're surrounded with people who want this to be real and, therefore, are going to highlight things that make this seem real and downplay that which makes it seem fake, doesn't suddenly mean this leak is clear and totally going to 100% happen.

Do I want this leak to be real? Yes. It removes any sort of disappointment for me for base roster, and sets me up to potentially never have to actively speculate ever again unless the next Smash is an actual port of all content from Ultimate. Yes, of COURSE I want Isaac, Shadow, Geno, Banjo, Ken, and the Chorus Kids. That's literally not even a question.

I think we all want it to be real.

However, just because what we see and what we WANT to see can be mixed up and suggest things that aren't there, it doesn't mean that we should buy into literally everything that seems like a cohesive point. From what I've seen, I'm leaning to it being real. But I'm not close to 100%. I'm actively nervous it's fake because there are solid arguments that it absolutely could be an utterly fantastic ruse.

The result of this could absolutely be Saltboards 2018, and massive hatred toward Nintendo, Ken, and Incineroar. This isn't confirmed, and it won't be until we see it in action. Keep that in mind.

Sincerely, Scoliosis Jones. AKA the guy that will probably be calling people out if they lash out because they got misled by a leak and didn't allow themselves to keep an open mind. Please, please keep your expectations in check. If you'll be fine with the leak being fake, then that's great. But I'm not so sure that a majority of people here are going to be able to properly do that.

I'm fully prepared for a possible saltboards and will revel in it.

 

[G Rank Zinogre]

I'm not even going to entertain the idea of the banner itself being leak bait because of how much of a monumental **** move that would be on Nintendo's part.

 

[Luigi The President]

Oh boy. Anger. All yall need to understand that the box is the only real truth. There is 2 left. It is ken and inciniroar. Get over it and enjoy smash.
peace out.

Jesus Christ drag0n this is just gonna cause more anger. I'm team fake and just seeing this is making me shake my head. Just quit it with this. Please. "Get over it" yea that's not gonna do you any good and you know what's to come.