Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This is the most entertaining thing since the Isabelle reveal, and I'm very grateful because before it was just a neverending cycle of devating box theory, blog theory, vergeben and not much more

Yeah, it feels good not to be watched by Big Brother again.

Instead of TeamReal vs TeamFake

How about TeamDirectThisWeek vs TeamDirectNextWeek

Let's not, that battle would be one-sided.

So what do you think's on the blog today?

Shout it out!

A Pokeyman.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Especially team fake for this question

"Oh, I was wrong."

That's about it.

 

[Gyrom8]

So what do you think's on the blog today?

Shout it out!

It's Olimars time 2 shine. Also reckon we'll be getting Street Fighter music this week if the direct isn't until next week.

 

[lightdrago]

But it's... Not the same? The insiders argument has a possibility of being true. The other one, doesn't. After all, reveal were already slowed down lol.

Right. These tens of insiders, like SpawnWave and Vergeben, are ALL being paid off by Nintendo to say a leak is fake even though they have little connection to them anyway.

But the “slow down” argument is so bad because after releasing one character Nintendo is gonna slow down even further by putting out seven characters.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Ugh, you are starting to get annoying, tehponycorn.

First, stir up discussion might not have been the right word, but I meant all this in a more positive, non harm to themselves way, as in not getting themselves in trouble with the fans. I meant that they were trying to add to the surprise, simple as that.

Second, you don't think these insiders are faultless innocent people, do you? Because it seems you are acting like it. I could be assuming, but still. It is not bad to defend a group of people in itself, but here you technically generalize the Smash fans you say get on the case of the insiders, and not only that, you seem to assume every one of us is trying to do bad things to these insiders. I wasn't doing any harm, and yet you acted like I did. There isn't something that makes you attached to these insiders to a "defend them at any cost" level, huh? Not everyone is pestering or saying bad things about these insiders, and by "not everyone", that includes me. So chill, not everything you see is a threat to these insiders you seem to care about, to the point of being easily getting on the case of others for the smallest things.

Sorry for the little rant, everyone else, I just had to get something off my back.

Wow. Okay. Ad Hominem right off the bat. Just the way I love my internet arguments.

Look, I'm just here to debate facts, and when I see a bad argument, I'm going to go after it. It's who I am as a person; I want to have meaningful discussions and I can't do that if the other side doesn't present a convincing argument. The fact is that you throw out weak ("Insiders are playing mind games to drum up hype) or harmful/mean ("Liam is a coward for privating his Twitter) arguments and I won't stand for that. It's nothing on you, but your points are weak at best, and false at worst.

Even now you attempt to attack my character by linking me to the insiders and questioning my motives from that, which is a real generalization unlike the ones that you're trying to call me on.

I'll even give a good example of an argument for you. The argument that Insiders such as GameXplain are being told to not cover the leak is a good one as it is backed by the account of how Nintendo handles leaks that Sephazon has given us and the precedent of Serebii being told to take down real Pokemon Black and White leaks from their website. Give me arguments like that and we'll get along fine.

 

[Will]

We already got ROB if I recall correctly.

Did I say we were gonna get ROB or that I felt like a ROB

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

On another note, the "Your a mean one" song for the grinch film came out and its... something: https://youtu.be/dvzT-6QNzdc

 

[KMDP]

So what do you think's on the blog today?

Shout it out!

Umm...

Yoshi.

The description will reference Zinith .

I think I've figured out what happened on the website with the banner cuts.

I mean, it could only be one thing, right?

Spoiler

Cut Man, slices up the competition!

Cut Man here to take my cut!

 

[DiamondJoyride]

Geez, why are there so many people here!

What's going on, what?

the leak is basically real at this point, that's what

 

[mjmannella]

Quoting Fenriraga's post so they don't get overlooked.

Nintendo has botched the banner before. "They botched it again" is a perfectly valid explanation this time as well.

After all, Vergeben was wrong when he said there will be no cuts.

No? No fighters got cut between Smash 4 and Ultimate. IIRC, he even stated that Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf would be returning too. Literally the only veterans he didn't talk about were Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, and Young Link.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I’m not going to trust any and all insider info unless if they have photographic proof or otherwise. I guess the only real thing that could make this real is another solid leak that coincides with this one or the direct says so

 

[Saelind Genesis]

If the leak turns out to be real, the Isaac reveal being delayed might as well be confirmed. That's gonna be a bitter pill to swallow to some people

 

[Phyr]

Only if we agree that the insiders being paid off isn’t a good one either!

The difference is: the former could be a lie or a matter of perspective. The later is a factual statement (they work in the industyr, that's why they are insiders. They get paid for this).

Note: They might not be paid off but they could be blacklisted all the same.

 

[Untouch]

JPEGs are compressed in chunks, what you have here is bleedthrough, this is a JPEG saved 3 times over.
You can see that Olimar's glove is also bleeding through as well.

 

[murdokdracul]

That's the thing. Gamexplain would do a discussion on this no matter what. Even if they spent an hour ripping it to shreds, they still would have made a video about it. Its very clear that they were told not to cover it.

I've been following their stuff for years and the lack of coverage on this whole topic is incredibly unlike them.

To play devil's advocate: it could also be that they DO have inside information and they know for certain that it's fake, and they're refraining from discussing it too much because they don't think they could convincingly act like they don't know that it's fake, and/or don't want to get people's hopes up. I'm on #teamreal but I can't deny this possibility. I'm still a bit annoyed at them anyway, though.

 

[ExitWound]

1,000+ people watching this thread be like

 

[Dyllybirdy]

the leak is basically real at this point, that's what

Oh ****.

But, how, what, why, when, who?

 

[AreJay25]

No? No fighters got cut between Smash 4 and Ultimate. IIRC, he even stated that Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf would be returning too. Literally the only veterans he didn't talk about were Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, and Young Link.

Pretty sure it was a joke about the cuts in the banner.

 

[kevinthedot]

Alright, I've been studying the damn mural for WAY too long now and getting upset at how many people don't get how it works, so let me try to explain it as a graphic designer that's used Photoshop and similar programs for a long time.

Back at E3, we got a full scale version of the leak. It can be found here on PidgiWiki, a site that gathers giant resolution press images. It is slightly over 20k x 4k pixels with 300 DPI resolution. It's a gigantic image. The detailing in it is amazing. You can see Falco's individual feathers. You can see LUCINA'S EMBLEM EYE.

Spoiler: Big Lucina

This image is gigantic and finely detailed. This isn't something they'd make and then start adding to haphazardly, this is something they surely planned out carefully and fully before digitally painting it at this massive size. As such, I'm 100% sure the first version of the mural they made was the one with EVERY CHARACTER on it, unannounced ones included.
The image has at least 1 layer group for the background. We have never had an instance where the background has moved at all so it can't be said how many layers make it up for sure. After that, EVERY character is painted IN FULL in their own layer/layer group. These character paintings are used in other promotional material like the cover of the box.
Characters are 100% INDEPENDANT FROM EACH OTHER. Even the ones that are interacting like the pokemon to wario and dedede are in their own, isolated layers with no lighting or ANYTHING from the other affecting them. Basically, consider every character in the mural as their own seperate backless PNG for the purpose of considering things. Some of them, like Ryu, have a glow around them. That glow is ALSO tied to their layer/layer group and moves purely with them. It doesn't ACTUALLY change any colors of the characters below it, it just looks like it does when the layers are finally saved into a single JPG. Also, extra special effects like Inkling's ink splashes are the same. They're in the characters layer/layer group, move with them when they shift, and DON'T affect any other character in an actual way.

So they have a gigantic mural with every character on it, and each character is TOTALLY ISOLATED onto their own layer. Next, they would turn off all the new characters and fill in the gaps by moving the other characters around and scaling them slightly. This is how we wind up with the mural we got at E3. We have no hints at other characters because, again, every character is an isolated layer so turning off a character is turning off EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF THEM IN THE IMAGE. There's literally no trace of them remaining.
Once they got all the new characters turned off, then they make a SECOND version of the mural. Every mural thus far actually has had two versions, the regular mural with everyone in one shot, and the looping mural. The looping mural always has characters in the foreground shift upwards and move somewhat to reveal more of the ground below. This is because the looping mural is only used in the site and that extra space is where the site starts.

Here's the current version in both full and loop form. As an aside, this is where that "the background changed caue the crystal under megaman disappeared!" misconception came from. You can see in the gif, loop megaman is higher up than regular megaman, just enough that the crystal becomes uncovered.

Anywho, now we got two versions of the gigantic mural, the regular and the loop. From here, every piece of advertising using the mural is derived. Everything takes the mural and DOWNSCALES IT as much as is needed. It's important to remember though, downscaling an image will kill quality and cause artifacts. Pixels will become sharper, some pixels where colors are touching may change color slightly may change slightly, details will be totally lost.
As another aside, the same happens when upscaling, BUT WORSE. Upscaling involves a program straight up GUESSING what a pixel should be. NEVER upscale something to prove a point.
The looped mural is downscaled to around 680 height, so almost 6x smaller, then it is cut up into 6 equal pieces. Those pieces are put on the smash site in a gallery widgit that does a constant scroll.
The regular image is used for everything else. It's downscaled and slapped onto whatever they need it slapped onto. But as far as I've seen, NOTHING ever has had it edited slightly from the original. What I mean is, everything with the mural on it matches perfectly to the regular version of the mural. No characters are ever moved or squashed or anything to accomedate what it's being put onto. They have the mural exactly how they want it, it isn't shifted for any small advertising piece. Nothing changes until a new version is released.
Thus far, there's been 4 versions: E3 without Ridley or Daisy only shown during the Direct, E3 with Ridley and Daisy, 8/8 with K. Rool and the gang, and Isabelle.

Spoiler: Comparing changes between versions (including leak)

Pardon the ****ty job I did lining them up, but here's all of them lined up including the best I could line up the Grinch leak:

And, since as I said they almost certainly STARTED with the full mural of all characters, here's the order it would have been made in:

There, that's my whole explanation about how the mural is made and how it works. I hope I explained things clearly.

 

[TreeBranch]

The 4chan picture that has been passed around was a real thread that was posted 5 minutes after the direct.
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/431477580/#431477580#

Your argument hinges on the notion that this man decided to fake a site glitch within five minutes of the direct ending for no discernible purpose. What reason would they possibly have to make that up?

On top of I can tell you that I personally remember this having occurred, and a few other Smashboarders have said they remember seeing this on the site after the direct as well.

Why are there no other screenshots? How many people have screencapped the bug where Superhappy Tree's name is in Spanish? No one, necause it's a minor site glitch that nobody expects to ever have insanely convoluted relevance to a leak two months later and hence there is no reason to screenshot it.

I know this doesn't contribute anything to the conversation but I have it lol

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Right. These tens of insiders, like SpawnWave and Vergeben, are ALL being paid off by Nintendo to say a leak is fake even though they have little connection to them anyway.

But the “slow down” argument is so bad because after releasing one character Nintendo is gonna slow down even further by putting out seven characters.

I don't think you know what slowing down means bud

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Show me evidence that multiple people saw the site glitch out. Not word of mouth. If multiple people saw this, surely multiple people screenshot it.

I've seen the site's banner glitch out before. I can't really confirm if it was over little Mac or not, nor can I remember what day or timeframe it was. I was just like "Hm, that's a little weird" and went on my way. Honestly, I don't think this whole site glitch means anything at all. Like, I've seen the site do this, I really have, but I really really doubt this helps the leak at all. I think it's just a site glitch with the sliding effect on the banner. That kind of stuff happens. It's normal.

 

[OpticalBlast]

On another note, the "Your a mean one" song for the grinch film came out and its... something: https://youtu.be/dvzT-6QNzdc

Tyler, the Creator?

Doing a song for a kids movie?

Huh???

 

[CosmicQuark]

Geez, why are there so many people here!

What's going on, what?

It's really confusing, and I'm still trying to process it all. Someone found a post from September of a weird glitch on the website, and it matches roughly the spot of where Isaac was in the Grinch leak, and the theory is Isaac was removed from the September Direct. However, it's complicated as there's 4 different banners to keep track of, 1 the Grinch leak the other the hypothetical one, in addition to the looping banner, and then there's a green pixel on Little Mac and...

My brain is literally dead right now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Based on what I've been seeing in here, ALL 1043 OF US NEED TO LISTEN UP. HEAR HEAR.

Yes, it's been an exciting day especially if you want this leak to be real. Yes, there's "evidence" that this thing could be real and that this roster will be quite possibly the greatest in history.

However, we all need to take a deep breath and realize that, holy ****, there's a good chance this leak could still be fake. Just because this thing looks amazing doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws that could debunk the whole thing.

Just because we're surrounded with people who want this to be real and, therefore, are going to highlight things that make this seem real and downplay that which makes it seem fake, doesn't suddenly mean this leak is clear and totally going to 100% happen.

Do I want this leak to be real? Yes. It removes any sort of disappointment for me for base roster, and sets me up to potentially never have to actively speculate ever again unless the next Smash is an actual port of all content from Ultimate. Yes, of COURSE I want Isaac, Shadow, Geno, Banjo, Ken, and the Chorus Kids. That's literally not even a question.

I think we all want it to be real.

However, just because what we see and what we WANT to see can be mixed up and suggest things that aren't there, it doesn't mean that we should buy into literally everything that seems like a cohesive point. From what I've seen, I'm leaning to it being real. But I'm not close to 100%. I'm actively nervous it's fake because there are solid arguments that it absolutely could be an utterly fantastic ruse.

The result of this could absolutely be Saltboards 2018, and massive hatred toward Nintendo, Ken, and Incineroar. This isn't confirmed, and it won't be until we see it in action. Keep that in mind.

Sincerely, Scoliosis Jones. AKA the guy that will probably be calling people out if they lash out because they got misled by a leak and didn't allow themselves to keep an open mind. Please, please keep your expectations in check. If you'll be fine with the leak being fake, then that's great. But I'm not so sure that a majority of people here are going to be able to properly do that.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

No? No fighters got cut between Smash 4 and Ultimate. IIRC, he even stated that Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf would be returning too. Literally the only veterans he didn't talk about were Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, and Young Link.

It was a joke about the cuts in the mural art (visual glitches on the Smash website).
There was a long discussion about that some pages ago.

 

[ChronoKatie]

Could someone give a brief description of what exactly happened? I keep hearing about jpegs, a glitch and Isaac.

 

[DerpingPikachu]

1,000+ people watching this thread be like

To be fair I’m always here lurking

 

[Phyr]

JPEGs are compressed in chunks, what you have here is bleedthrough, this is a JPEG saved 3 times over.
You can see that Olimar's glove is also bleeding through as well.
View attachment 173091

There is no green there, and wouldn't be even after a thousand iterations. There is NO Blue/yellow component in anything in the proximity of that image. It is IMPOSSIBLE for it to get to green even after thousands of iterations (It will go towards brown/black)

Stop using bad tech arguments if you don't have any idea please. It's the third time we have commented on this. (Two myself and one another person) It's not good for the discussion because you are spreading misinformation all over and ignoring experts on the topic.

 

[Kuon]

After all, Vergeben was wrong when he said there will be no cuts.

Who got cut? Metal Mario? Master Hand?

 

[SonicMario]

I'm still going to remain on Team Neutral/Team Hmmmm

But should this turn out real, I feel like maybe I should at least finally give my thoughts on each of the characters. If this is real, this is just going to be heck of an amazing finish. And while I will have one character I'll be holding out for during the DLC period. I could be told by Sakurai directly to just me that particular character is not making it. And still be perfectly ok with this.

Ken: Pretty much expected since the hints from the box theory. Won't use him more then Ryu but he's a fine addition to me

Shadow: As long as he's an echo fighter, I'm perfectly fine with him. Technically counts as representation of my favorite game in the Sonic series (Sonic Adventure 2) and might be fun to have a bit of a different spin on Sonic's moveset. Albeit I am not going to use him more then Sonic. As long as Shadow's an echo fighter, I can still hold out hope for Tails in DLC.

Chorus Kids: They sounded like an interesting idea that could make for a unique fighter back in the Smash 4 days. This may be Sakurai finally wanted to complete his original plan, but the 3DS hampering it from happening.

Geno: Never been personally interested in Geno myself, but he's pretty much that speculation underdog that has persistent since Brawl speculation. So I'll certainly be happy for the fans who have worked so hard to bring up even this severely limited role character for pure dedication sake.

Isaac: Not really interested in him myself but I know he's been a big ballot request from what I saw of the top voted. And a franchise that's gone dormant that probably should get it's due. It was probably especially painful for Isaac fans throughout Smash 4 to see the assist removed and Isaac not appearing anywhere in the game. The item shown during the Wendy's thing also has me kind of believing he's in even if the leak turns out fake.

Mach Rider: Interesting retro choice, and I assume an idea Sakurai once had for Melee. Don't know what to expect here. But it'll be interesting.

Banjo-Kazooie: I'm not even a big Banjo-Kazooie fan. And I think this is a BIG deal. With Sonic, Cloud, and now potentially Banjo. Smash has officially broken all sorts of barriers of past, and present console war history. If Rare had stayed with Nintendo, Banjo may have gotten in as early as Melee. Or at the very least Brawl. So this is really a longtime coming.

If this is all real, it'll just be amazing. I may still trying to keep myself skeptical with all this. But please know it's just me trying to save my giddiness for when it's officially confirmed. I don't want to go all-in on saying it's real yet, though I also don't want to entirely deny it because it would be such an amazing end for the base game.

 

[Cosmic77]

We're STILL going over the cut thing?

Let me guess. Instead of trying to understand how the banner is updated, everyone is freaking out because of the placement of the cut.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

It's really confusing, and I'm still trying to process it all. Someone found a post from September of a weird glitch on the website, and it matches roughly the spot of where Isaac was in the Grinch leak, and the theory is Isaac was removed from the September Direct. However, it's complicated as there's 4 different banners to keep track of, 1 the Grinch leak the other the hypothetical one, in addition to the looping banner, and then there's a green pixel on Little Mac and...

My brain is literally dead right now.

Okay.

Wow. Huh...

 

[Will]

Could someone give a brief description of what exactly happened? I keep hearing about jpegs, a glitch and Isaac.

Little Mac gets his hand photoshopped away and now everyone think Shulk's little brother made this thing realer than O'Real.

 

[Idon]

On another note, the "Your a mean one" song for the grinch film came out and its... something: https://youtu.be/dvzT-6QNzdc

Compositionally, I really can't find anything wrong with it.

Regardless, I despite it with every fiber of my being. It feels wrong. Gross, even.

 

[ExitWound]

On another note, the "Your a mean one" song for the grinch film came out and its... something: https://youtu.be/dvzT-6QNzdc

That's the stage music for whoville

 

[CannonStreak]

View attachment 173083

Wow. Okay. Ad Hominem right off the bat. Just the way I love my internet arguments.

Look, I'm just here to debate facts, and when I see a bad argument, I'm going to go after it. It's who I am as a person. The fact is that you throw out weak ("Insiders are playing mind games to drum up hype) or harmful/mean ("Liam is a coward for privating his Twitter) arguments and I won't stand for that. It's nothing on you, but your points are weak at best, and false at worst.

Even now you attempt to attack my character by linking me to the insiders and questioning my motives from that, which is a real generalization unlike the ones that you're trying to call me on.

Okay, on the bolded part, now you are assuming what I am doing, like you say I am with Liam, when there is a subtle difference between directly calling someone a coward and saying his actions are like those are a coward's/are rather cowards. It's not the same. I never directly called him that. Even if it is the same, I did not mean it in a bad way, for I wasn't trying to attack him. But enough of that. You think I was implying mind games were being played by the insiders? HECK NO! That wasn't what I was implying at all. I am not doing any of that, just like you are claiming not to have any linking to those insiders and saying I was questioning your motives and assuming your character when you clearly implied and made it apparent that you were more than I did with my posts. You are just not realizing the inner nature, or substance of my post. Plus, you can't stand for it? It is just a little thing. Nothing more. It is not that bothersome. No need to be a superhero about it. In fact, chances are, based on what I said before, you'll only cause more unwanted problems.

Just. Drop. It. theponycorn. I used to think you were cool when you posted all those 4Chan fake leaks on Smash Ultimate, which I liked, but now, I don't.

 

[Jchrono95]

Okay so what's the big thing I missed cause it's obviously big enough for just shy of 1k people to be on here

 

[Paperchampion23]

Can we just agree that if the banner glitch means nothing, it isn't a +1 for the team fake and a -1 for the team real.

This whole argument has gone on for nearly 6 days now. This just game into the fold like 3 hours ago and had no bearing on the validity leak itself before. I just want people to understand this.

 

[Flarzo]

Before we get carried away here with "banner glitches" that no-one actually saw, alignment errors, a video getting deleted, GameXplain being weird and a crazy theory from @papagenos , let's remember:



Mind you, a lot of this evidence doesn't sound as airtight now as it did a few days ago, but I still think we should keep it in mind.

"None of the grinch renders being as new as we thought" What do you mean? Surely you can't be referring to the banjo/chorus kids renders, those were debunked a while ago.