Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Wyoming]

All these ''wacky'' new folks reminding me of the ESRB days when guests would actually sign up. Their intentions unknown, some unwanted with hindsight.

There's no beating around the bush about it...we'll need to wait for information or another viable leak before moving forward. How about we discuss them online modes we want?

 

[Wambo]

This time could be cut down by having a character or two be revealed in a trailer at the very end of the direct, as the previous two characters revealed like that (Ridley and K. Rool) didn't get their movesets broken down within their respective directs. There could also be a character not revealed until some time after the direct as a last surprise before release.

Considering when the direct drops, the game's gonna be released soon anyway, so it's not like they need to go over the characters when ten million people have already pre-ordered the game and are going to be playing it soon.

 

[Baskerville]

Salt goes great with his morning coffee.

The everyday morning of a heel.

 

[murdokdracul]

Some food for thought: When are these characters supposed to be announced? Isaac, Geno, Banjo, Mach Rider, Chorus Kids. Assuming Shadow is an echo, that's 5 unique characters. 5 characters that need reveal trailers.

Sakurai said there were not going to be constant trailers right up to release. So let's assume they would all have to be announced at the same time. The average Nintendo Direct is 30-35 minutes. Let's say each character trailer would be approximately 90 seconds. That's over 7 minutes of trailers. After that Sakurai would need to talk about each character including echoes for at least 2 minutes each. Let's split the difference and say each echo is 1 minute.

That's almost 20 minutes dedicated to trailers and explanation. Now take second and tell me if that sounds realistic.

Honestly, that sounds perfectly reasonable to me if the Direct is dedicated to Smash. 10 minutes on Spirits Mode and then what else is left to talk about? We've had two massive blowouts already and the game is almost here.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So uh

Who could be the two characters in the so called unique character trailer be? They obviously have to both be from the same series and never before seen. I doubt anyone from the banner would be it either.

 

[Pyra]

I'm gonna try and see what I can do. Bored enough to put forth a little effort right now.

As far as I'm concerned with the leak, there isn't much you can do to "prove it real". It exists within it's context and between that and official things that might crop up, there's not much you can do. It's much easier to argue against it being real because you can compare what we have with existing media, such as with the background argument. Then, proponents of the leak might try to provide evidence showing that arguments against it may be negligible, but because of the context of this leak, that's near impossible. It is also basically impossible to contradict an insider, despite what people might say about it. A lot of what could potentially support the leak relies on information that doesn't exist.

So, to me, it's more fun to try to find an actual, verifiable reason why this might be real before it gets debunked or confirmed by an official source.

Despite my bet against Incineroar, I feel like it would be a fun challenge for me to find something that both implies it's inclusion AS WELL as the Grinchy 7.

However, Incineroar's inclusion implies that the materials shown off in the Grinch leak are to be used after all of the characters on it are revealed, and before Incineroar. That would mean there are actually 8 more characters remaining, with Incineroar being the very last one. Note that "unhype final character" isn't a valid argument. So, this is the context that I'll be thinking about it.

Note: This is just hypothetical. I'm aware that a dozen or so of you will go "BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN" and you're more than welcome to feel free to let the class know how you know that for sure. My personal stance on the matter, even now, is that I don't particularly care about the outcome, but would of course prefer it to be real like many people. That is not why I'm doing it. I'm also doing it because as of right now, I think it's unlikely for it to be completely real, and I would like to find information that points to the otherwise before saying anything dramatic.

I'll not say anything else that lends credence towards one side or the other, besides as a response to someone else's argument. If I feel like it.
Until I come up with something.


Until then, feel free to keep arguing about the same 5 things, it's exciting to think about which of the multiple endings we might be shuttling towards.

 

[Idon]

So team fake, or team real, or team hmm aside, do you think if this leak turns out to be fake it will effect the smash community's perception of the game for the first couple months?

Like let's say Ken, Incineroar and one more character (your choice) is final. Do you think a majority of the fan base will be upset and dissapointed at launch? I'm really hoping not but at least based on this community it seems the majority think it's real so I'd be sad if a fake leak ruined Sakurai's hype game

If it's my choice, then I can guarantee you I will disappoint the entirety of the fanbase because I'm picking my niche nobody character.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I suppose we could look at the receipt which was blanked out in a similar manner and see if we could reach any conclusions from that.

The receipt isn't obscured. It's the name of the person sending it. Same as it is on the other screenie.

 

[Robertman2]

what'd i miss

there's like 40 new pages

 

[NastCF]

My friend, the point is, all of this HAS TO WORK IN TANDEM with each other. Its a very, VERY complicated leak if fake. Zero actual, damaging holes have been found for it, and thats my point. Everything works too well together.

Its much much simpler to explain why its real over why its fake, and you are proving my point, as every single one of your answers are the result of you seeing the leak already and coming to that conclusion after piecing together what the fanbase has put together already. Try and make up something this complicated on your own and have it be argued by millions of people on the internet for over 4 days now.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is for someone to say that its fake because someone can logically do all this without messing up a hitch? This would be, by far, the most complicated fake anyone has ever staged if its all just "fake"

The background issue is an actual damaging hole which is easier to explain in favor of the leak being fake rather than being real. It's one hole, but it's something.

>Occam's Razor is subjective

I blame post-modern education.

Occam's razor isn't a black-or-white argument. What's completely implausible for some might be pretty plausible for others.

 

[XLIFE]

To all the Grinch marks out there, Incineroar's got a message for ya...

Incineroar: You know they say that all newcomers are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Grinch and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another character, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add ChadDorf to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Ultimate, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because ChadDorf KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try!

So Grinch, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Ultimate. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Ultimate. See Grinch, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Ultimate.

See, but I'm gonna break it down for all you ladies. Would you rather be with me? Or would you rather be with Grinch?

Smashboards: Well, I think Grinch's kinda nice, y'know...

Incineroar: See, you're one of those girls that like romance. I'mma talk to all my freaks out there. Would you rather come home to me, a genetic freak, to be satisfied every night? Or go home to that fat ass Grinch? See, tonight we're going to win and I'm gonna be the newcomer at Ultimate. C'mon Ken.

Spoiler

Been catching up since the Grinch leak happened, missed the boat on the Incineroar ****posting earlier, but wanted to put this out there since I haven't seen it yet (I hope the joke hasn't been done). It's been fun reading through this for the last 2 days or so.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Not that it matters, but I had a thought. Look at the Smash site character page: https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/index.html

So I doubt that it matters, but there are 2 empty slots. Giving how perfect the site is right now with everything else, they would want this page to look so to, right? 2 characters fits perfectly, so does 5, then 8, then 11, etc. But 11 and beyond is too much.

I find this kinda interesting because the box theory suggested only 2 character are left, so that works. The newest leak suggests 7 characters + there is speculation that Incineroar is in also. That would be 8, which also works.

Don't know what I'm getting at here, but that's that.

We actually have that similar situation at Smash 4 where after Bayonetta, many speculate that there will be more characters since there are still few empty slots.

What happen? It never happened.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Not that it matters, but I had a thought. Look at the Smash site character page: https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/index.html

So I doubt that it matters, but there are 2 empty slots. Giving how perfect the site is right now with everything else, they would want this page to look so to, right? 2 characters fits perfectly, so does 5, then 8, then 11, etc. But 11 and beyond is too much.

I find this kinda interesting because the box theory suggested only 2 character are left, so that works. The newest leak suggests 7 characters + there is speculation that Incineroar is in also. That would be 8, which also works.

Don't know what I'm getting at here, but that's that.

While if I designed the site this would be the easiest way to decipher how many characters could be left because OCD, past Smash sites haven't followed any such pattern so I wouldn't look into it.

There an infamous photo of the Smash 4 site that I don't feel like looking for, but the end result was not perfect and even

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Considering when the direct drops, the game's gonna be released soon anyway, so it's not like they need to go over the characters when ten million people have already pre-ordered the game and are going to be playing it soon.

I mean people were already excited about Cloud yet Sakurai went over him in the presentation shortly before his release

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, I think whether or not it comes down to the whole Mural/Grinch stuff, I don't think I've ever fully gave an actual response to this from my own POV, but since the internet is still split on it, it seems like it's still a good time to talk about it. And I'm sure since we're all fans of the games that these characters in said "leak" are in, I can relate on some level in which way or another. And I wanna get that out of the way, since I don't wanna sound like I'm coming from this as a hater on both or one side of the argument.

My Opinion of the Grinch Leak: "I don't think this is real, but it can go either way. If this is real, there's no way this is still real".
Now hear me out.

We have: Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Isaac, Shadow, Ken, Mach Rider, and Chorus Kids. I love the games they came from and I've no doubt in one way shape or form have seen these characters get massive push in one way or another. Geno, Isaac and Banjo-Kazooie - whether you like it or not - have been requested for so. Long. Geno and Isaac since Brawl, and even in Melee for Banjo and Kazooie. Chorus Kids got ganked in Smash 4, and Shadow has always been an underground want that's finally getting their due.

I've been interested and active in wanting these characters in for the longest time, but to have them finally here? It doesn't seem real. Every time we see these characters in fake leaks, it just feels like you're getting hurt, because the longest time you've wanted these characters in, and to see this, you're just numb to it. You've been burnt out so many times, you're torn, and I'm torn, too. We've been through these cycles four times, this fifth time being THIS much of a fan-requested cycle seems unreal. Not to mention, the DLC cycle of Smash 4, might've been the cycle with the most "drive". And in the end, we had so many questions. What's the fate of Geno and K. Rool? And just Smash in general? Lots of hearts broken and dreams came true.

With the current roster as is, it feels like a dream come true. But to add on this bombshell of 7 characters? In ADDITION to Castlevania, King K. Rool, Ridley, almost 900 tracks and 100+ stages? I'm on the same firm belief that AfroSenju had about Kingdom Hearts 3: This game just isn't real and I ain't a believer of this religion.

There's no way I'm giving away 60 manufactured dollars of American currency for a game that should be well above that retail price. And if all of this is true, it doesn't matter if this leak was real, because we're gonna be looking at something that practically is a once-in-a-lifetime moment. It'll be hard to digest even a FRACTION of what we'll see during those reveals. Anytime I see any gameplay of Smash Ultimate, I just can't help but feel a overshadowing pain for all the fans who want Isaac, Geno, Banjo, Sora, Rex, what have you, because in the end, this feels like the last Smash Bros., and **** me, this is game definitely feels like it. So to see this all come to fruition? Show me the reveal, my guy.

We are 40 days until Smash Ultimate releases. When I get the game, I'm gonna have all types of emotions when I feel the game in my hands - hell, I was broke when I saw my legitimate father Snake came back from the 10-year war and Konami's grasp. I am hurt that this game even exists, and I cannot get off this Smash Ultimate hype train because **** me, this might be the greatest thing I'll ever experience as a general games fan, so UNTIL I SEE Geno become a reality. UNTIL I SEE Banjo GUH-HYUK-ing, this leak AND this game isn't real. **** your "insider info" and banners, this **** is coming from the heart, and I'm letting that **** be the guiding key.

/heartfeltrant

 

[Megadoomer]

I genuinely have not heard of Occam's Razor until this point, but people on the Internet finding it hard to believe this is fake isn't really a point for it from what I get

Occam's Razor means the more assumptions that you have to make for something to be true (in this case, the banner being an elaborate fake, according to the people who support the leak), the less likely it is that something is true.

 

[KingBroly]

So uh

Who could be the two characters in the so called unique character trailer be? They obviously have to both be from the same series and never before seen. I doubt anyone from the banner would be it either.

Banjo and Kazooie are 2 characters, but are a unique character. But that's enough lawyer wishful talking from me.

 

[Pizzanigs]

Can we just eliminate any arguments about slots whether its on a website, select screen, box, whatever. I thought we knew by now that none of that means ****

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Banjo and Kazooie are 2 characters, but are a unique character. But that's enough lawyer wishful talking from me.

Pretty sure Banjo-Kazooie and the Chorus Kids would all count as one character tho

 

[Kagrenac]

https://youtu.be/VZ8VyX8-PV8?t=1924

(32:07 in case the timestamp doesn't work)

The announcer for Smash 4 was given Red Herring names to announce so he wouldn't know who was real or fake...he does go ahead and say they do this sort of thing a lot during development.

With this being the case it is not impossible for "Sources" to have incorrect information.

 

[The DanMan051]

-Taken on Snapchat and leaked on accident
-Attempted to scrub a name that was found (but would have to have been on purpose if it was fake? What?)
-An actual person associated with that snapchat, with an actual Linkedin account that is years old, and actual ties to multiple companies that do print/display work exactly like the leak, along with using Autocad to set up these displays
-Said leak contains promotional artwork for something not even associated with Smash, like....why?
-Is so complicated to even fathom being fake by many, many people because the way it arrived on the internet and all of this info totally goes against Occam's Razor.

>How do we know that? Couldn't the "leaker" have put it out there themselves or sent it out to an accomplice? Do we even know that a video actually exists and that it came from Snapchat?
>The scrubbing job is awfully done, leaving the top part clear and easily readable; either they were an idiot or it was someone attempting to frame someone else
>He left the one company that has confirmed ties to Namco and Illumination two years ago (notably no ties to Nintendo, who's handling the publication and distribution of the game and would be the people requesting materials like this be made)-- and Autocad is industry standard
>Maybe to make it look more plausible, maybe because that's what the person's job is and the Smash deal was a personal side project
>That's taking everything at face value; plenty of people have offered up explanations, and we've got a professional graphics artist tearing things down and tons of insiders also calling it fake

You're operating under the assumption that it's real and making everything fit that assumption.

 

[murdokdracul]

So uh

Who could be the two characters in the so called unique character trailer be? They obviously have to both be from the same series and never before seen. I doubt anyone from the banner would be it either.

Brawl revealed a whole bunch of characters in one trailer, so I don't think they have to be from the same series.

 

[Sergeant_Snivy]

Honestly, that sounds perfectly reasonable to me if the Direct is dedicated to Smash. 10 minutes on Spirits Mode and then what else is left to talk about? We've had two massive blowouts already and the game is almost here.

There's been almost zero single-player content revealed so far, only Training Mode and Classic Mode. Consider how many single-player modes there have been in previous iterations (Home-Run Contest, Multi-Man, Target Smash/Blast, All-Star mode, Adventure/Subspace, etc.). Surely they have plenty of those to talk about for Ultimate.

 

[PsySmasher]

If the leak is false Incineroar is in.
People are only uncertain because of the leak possibly being true.
Let's not fool ourselves here.

With all due respect buddy, no it isn't.
Unless you can show me photographed proof that Incineroar is in, he isn't a lock.
There is a possibility that the leak is false and Incineroar is still not in (as in he was leak bait).
I'm not saying Incineroar isn't in the game, there is a VERY good chance that's the case.
But you don't have any evidence pointing to him being a lock.
And no... leaks/leakers aren't evidence.

 

[Luigifan18]

So team fake, or team real, or team hmm aside, do you think if this leak turns out to be fake it will effect the smash community's perception of the game for the first couple months?

Like let's say Ken, Incineroar and one more character (your choice) is final. Do you think a majority of the fan base will be upset and dissapointed at launch? I'm really hoping not but at least based on this community it seems the majority think it's real so I'd be sad if a fake leak ruined Sakurai's hype game

"Wait, how did Bomberman get to be a playable character and an Assist Trophy?!?"
"#****Konami"
"In hindsight, Snake's inclusion should have indicated a Konami stranglehold..."

Lol, I know a lot of people will be happy at Bomberman being playable, but there will still be plenty of salty noobs calling him an undeserving nobody...

 

[Deleted member]

I genuinely have not heard of Occam's Razor until this point, but people on the Internet finding it hard to believe this is fake isn't really a point for it from what I get

Occam's Razor basically means:

When presented with two explanations for an occurrence where neither has concrete evidence to support it, you go with the least complex of the two. The one that requires the least speculation.

In this particular case, the explanations for the leak are "it's fake" or "it's real" in order to explain how it could be faked, you gotta construe an incredibly complex and intricate scenario. Explaining that it's real, simply boils down to much simpler less speculative explanations.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/O2jkV4BsN6U?t=179

Occam's Razor isn't subjective. It was explicitly made to avoid subjectivism.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Here's another question: When has there ever been more than 2 unique fighers revealed in a direct?

And since the community is so keen on patterns, don't say "There's a first time for everything."

 

[Kagrenac]

So uh

Who could be the two characters in the so called unique character trailer be? They obviously have to both be from the same series and never before seen. I doubt anyone from the banner would be it either.

Stopped believing these ***hats that have no physical proof a while ago. Never trusted Vergeben either. Won't start trusting text leaks now.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So uh

Who could be the two characters in the so called unique character trailer be? They obviously have to both be from the same series and never before seen. I doubt anyone from the banner would be it either.

I mean, I can still see Isaac and Chorus Kids share a trailer for some reason...

 

[Noipoi]

@Mr. Wario Ramen Tengoku
I see those avatars OwO

 

[Wiziliz]

Someone who wanted to stir even more discussion.


Ain't even confirmed it's a Golden Sun item, hold your horses

Shhhh...

 

[Luigi The President]

https://youtu.be/VZ8VyX8-PV8?t=1924

(32:07 in case the timestamp doesn't work)

The announcer for Smash 4 was given Red Herring names to announce so he wouldn't know who was real or fake...he does go ahead and say they do this sort of thing a lot during development.

With this being the case it is not impossible for "Sources" to have incorrect information.

Literally had a physical reaction of lifting my shoulders in shock to "one of the fake names was Rayman"
How could I ever forget

 

[Whia]

Occam's razor isn't a black-or-white argument. What's completely implausible for some might be pretty plausible for others.

Occam’s razor isn’t about plausibility per se, it’s about minimizing assumptions. Occam’s razor definitely points to the leak being real.

That said, it’s not a hard and fast rule so it doesn’t actually prove anything.

 

[Heartz♥]

C'mon, guys...can't we all just get along?

Let's go back to debating the leak. We were surprisingly more chill when we were doing that, lol.

**** all ya'll. Where's my Tingle leak at?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Brawl revealed a whole bunch of characters in one trailer, so I don't think they have to be from the same series.

I think Brawl was just the exception. Ultimate seems to be following For’s rules of newcomers being introduced in twos as strictly from the same series (see: , , , )

And yes I know Charizard was technically a (revamped) veteran and Dark Pit didn’t get a tag line due to being secret (even though Lucina ironically did) but still

 

[Hylian]

This is definitely the most fun leak, real or fake.
#teamreal

 

[Cutie Gwen]

@Mr. Wario Ramen Tengoku
I see those avatars OwO

Oh right you made that anime thing and it wasn't a one for one on the Love Live thing like I suggested you son of a peanut

 

[Wambo]

I have to ask; what's the most spectacular account suicide you've seen? What just went down in this thread is up there for me, almost on the level of this (WARNING, NSFW IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT):

I grew abs from this video just by laughing.

I can't stop.

Send help.

 

[NastCF]

Occam’s razor isn’t about plausibility per se, it’s about minimizing assumptions. Occam’s razor definitely points to the leak being real.

That said, it’s not a hard and fast rule so it doesn’t actually prove anything.

Fair enough.

 

[KingBroly]

Pretty sure Banjo-Kazooie and the Chorus Kids would all count as one character tho

The only trailers having 2 new characters from Smash 4 and Ultimate had Lucina/Robin and Simon/Richter. But both were from the same series. I can't see Ken/Incineroar being in the same trailer (if we assume Box Theory is correct). I also have a hard time picturing any combination thereof with any character set beyond a duo or something insane like Banjo & Kazooie and Minecraft Steve.