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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Matoi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
89
A comment on the Mach Rider being male/female: why can't we have both with alternates like pokemon trainer or robin
Because it’s a man? Didn’t his melee trophy establish him as a man? That’s be like giving Mario or Link female alternates when there characters are established as males. Pokémon trainer and robin Alts make sense because you can choose between male or female in their games.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
Because it’s a man? Didn’t his melee trophy establish him as a man? That’s be like giving Mario or Link female alternates when there characters are established as males. Pokémon trainer and robin Alts make sense because you can choose between male or female in their games.
Samus was referred to as a man in Metroid's instruction manual.
 

Game2018

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Messages
59
There's even more proof that Mach Rider is female. She was supposed to appear in Captain Rainbow, but got scrapped. However, her model still exists in the game and can be seen through hacking:
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22909469

A body like that screams female no matter how you look at it.
 
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SonicMario

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
4,063
Location
Mushroom Square
He's not. He originally shared the banner on snapchat to friends, then one of the recipients posted it elsewhere.
So the story goes anyway
Yeah I've sort of gotten the feeling Eric himself was not the real leaker. Especially if the real leaker was actually trying to cover his tracks. It does seem to be a big mystery that's going to be hard to find out even long after we find out the truth.
 

Ignoritus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
458
I'm making a list of all the Team Fake and Team Real arguments. This is what I have so far:

Team Fake:
  • Many changes to background
  • Stolen renders and artwork
  • Supposed leaker was fired 2 years ago, and he's over 50 years old
  • No copyright information for Rare or Camelot on the back of the box
  • Low quality image
  • The Grinch renders are also stolen
  • New plant item is a Smash original or from another series

Team Real:
  • Changes made to background for cost to mass produce
  • No renders or artwork have been claimed as stolen
  • May also be a case of identity theft and may also be a different French graphic design company
  • Copyright information is only for the characters on the box
  • May have needed to sneak a picture, and it was also sent through Snapchat.
  • The Grinch renders are real
  • New plant item is from Golden Sun
Literally every fake point you listed beyond the background changes have already been debunked.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
It only seems to zip around in the middle of the screen and can easily be avoided from what I've seen from the demo.
I mean...

...on smaller stages (like Battlefield and Final Destination) that's pretty much a death sentence.
If Mach Rider isn't female what's even the point of adding them in Smash?

You got me there.
 

GenoToto

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
386
Because it’s a man? Didn’t his melee trophy establish him as a man? That’s be like giving Mario or Link female alternates when there characters are established as males. Pokémon trainer and robin Alts make sense because you can choose between male or female in their games.
In all fairness, Melee trophies had various inaccuracies and mistakes that were later either corrected or disregarded over time. Mach Rider, as far as I can tell, has had both man and woman variants during the character's existence, be it that they changed gears and decided to go with a woman design, or the character is a "different" mach rider altogether.

Either way, I don't think we'd really see much in alternate skins beyond the costume, anyway - and the costume is largely the main implication for the gender in this case, anyway, as the current one displayed in the leak was the female variant of Mach Rider, from what I recall.

In any case, man, woman, rider, in whatever scenario provided to us, should the leak be real, we'll have an interesting fighter on our hands.
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
Most people assumed Decidueye but Incineroar is still bought into now only because of leaks really. Between the starters, lycanroc and legendaries you've got a fair few believable choices to tell leakers and they wouldn't be specifically questioned.
See, no. Not being an ass but...

Look some stuff up. the tiger is ahead of the wolf. Always has been.
 

Ignoritus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
458
Then can you please help add to this?
Can I help add to the list of fake points? No not really because the only legitimate arguments for fake thus far have been the background changes and the wave of insiders speaking out against it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not minimizing the weight of those points, particularly the background changes. But #teamfake really only has those points to back them up.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
For the love of...

Do not harass this man and try to track him down. This fan base is very much entering "not cool" status with this leak. This man 100% has nothing to do with it, and all spreading his name around carelessly and trying find pages and other things about him will do is open him up for harassment from the crazier sides of the fandom.

There are lines, people, and I would suggest we don't cross them. It's a VIDEO GAME. Please keep things in perspective and do not pry into this man's life when you have absolutely no right doing so.
How do you know for certain he has nothing to do with it at all?

I agree people shouldn't doxx/harass the guy for answers, but there's nothing to suggest he wasn't the guy behind the Snapchat post at all. Him denying he knows anything about the leak when put under w spotlight doesn't suddenly remove and all suspicion from him, especially since that's literally the sort of thing someone would do in that situation if they were trying to avoid trouble/attention.

People are being very quick to take his words at face value because they wanna believe the leak is fake. But if the leak is real, he's 100% involved with this in some way (probably the guy who leaked it), because his Snapchat profile is the one that made the post, AND his career revolves around graphic design, as we see in the screens. If this were a criminal case, that would be VERY substantial evidence linking it to him.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
12,149
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Nelson340
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See, no. Not being an *** but...

Look some stuff up. the tiger is ahead of the wolf. Always has been.
Are your sources anything besides Verg and Verg imitators that have to create a fantasy where Incineroar is in every single SM episode?
 

TyrantLizardKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,187
Location
Tallon IV
The closest thing is that Dark Samus is referred to as "she" and "her" (by other characters(?) and the developers).

Obviously, this doesn't specifically make Dark Samus female physically, but it's something.

Also, Metroids have "Queens" so they might have a physical sex, even if we can't tell what those sexes are.
Metroids do have sexes but asexually reproduce as Queens can literally pop larvae out of their backsides.
However Dark Samus is definitely female, she is consistently referred to with female pronouns in both Prime 2 and 3 and also has a distinctly female voice. There's also the matter that in the Prime Core Essence Battle she can spawn Metroids on a whim (though that may have been more for gameplay).
 

Mango The Magician

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
246
NNID
Mango_Magician
Can I help add to the list of fake points? No not really because the only legitimate arguments for fake thus far have been the background changes and the wave of insiders speaking out against it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not minimizing the weight of those points, particularly the background changes. But #teamfake really only has those points to back them up.
As far as I can tell no one can provide proof that this new company even works in video games or has any ties to Nintendo, Namco, or Illuminations at all. That's a monumental hole in the leak.
 

TheCJBrine

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
12,069
Location
New World, Minecraft
No, it's a guy at the publication company who faked it. Doesn't mean it's not faked.
That's also possible; I was just thinking this would be a lot of work for just one man to fake something, and if he's at the publication company, willing to risk giving up his source of income, it could also be real and just a mistake when trying to send a snapchat to friends/colleagues or whoever, maybe even a disgruntled co-worker.

Of course, even though it's possibly real, it's also possibly fake, which is why it can't truly be debunked or confirmed until the next direct.

As far as I can tell no one can provide proof that this new company even works in video games or has any ties to Nintendo, Namco, or Illuminations at all. That's a monumental hole in the leak.
It's not a monumental hole as there's no proof that they don't, either, so the leak is still in a stalemate. The Assassins' Creed thing that was found at least shows that they do work in videogames, even if it's from a different company, so they may work with others or they may not, and they may have a variety of decoration designs if we assume the leak is from there.
 
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scoobymcsnack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
497
Reminder to everyone who knows the #truth that Mach Rider is female, that due to sexism, which Sakurai and Nintendo are in no way immune to, the character will 100% be reffered to as male if they are in the game.

Truly dissapointing but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There's no point arguing it. If people believing she's female really bothers you that's weird.
Where’s the proof tho
Like I’m all for female Mach rider, but I’m also all for male Mach Rider. So I would like proof to which it is because so far the only actual proof is Mach Rider’s Melee trophy
 

Capybara Gaming

Just Vibing
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9,501
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There's even more proof that Mach Rider is female. She was supposed to appear in Captain Rainbow, but got scrapped. However, her model still exists in the game and can be seen through hacking:
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22909469

A body like that screams female no matter how you look at it.
Yes because Captain Rainbow is totally canon to half a dozen other franchises.
Also, scrapped content means nothing; it was scrapped for a reason. Did Sora visit Toy Story prior to Kingdom Hearts 3 simply because a Toy Story world was scrapped for the first game?
 

Ura

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
12,838
Switch FC
SW-2772-0149-6703
https://www.strawpoll.me/16718692

Current poll sitting at 94 votes. Most of you guys think the leak is legit and a lot of you are like me who can't say for sure. Not a lot think it's fake which is surprising.
 

GenoToto

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
386
I feel like chasing after further details from a lead involving the supposed man who took the Snapchat is nothing more than an unnecessary red herring, anyway. On top of the ethical issues of hounding someone's page for more information (and that there is also a fair chance that there just so happens to be a similarly named man in a world of billions of people that also happened to go to school in France), there just seems little point in trying to be much more "A-HA!" about whether or not the man worked in the supposed company involved in the leak. Like, being that much more confident in this detail that's been thrown around with uncertainty for the past couple of days doesn't really tell us anything more about the authenticity of whether or not the characters in the banner are real, or forgeries.

In any case, I feel like this is crossing more lines than is absolutely necessary (and people were already crossing lines to begin with when this all started, I think, tracking down his linkedin, calling his employer, etc, etc..), and maybe that's a sign that folks ought to pull back a bit and take a few minutes to breathe.
 

SmashNStache

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
64
Right, so...I had some time to think over my feelings on this leak, and here's how I feel about it.

If it's real and these characters are in, while I'll be disappointed my current most-wanted (Incineroar) isn't in or at least isn't in the base game, I'll still be happy with who we get! Either way, I'm going to love this game for what it is: arguably the biggest Smash game there is and possibly will be!

If I'm being a bit honest, I'll just be happy if Incineroar is in at all. Whether it's as a fighter or a Pokeball Pokemon.

Once again Captain Falcon is one of the most shipped character in gay smash art soooooo it's gunna happen no matter what XD
And that, friends, is one of the things I love about Smash. XD
 

GunBlaze

Smash Lord
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Slippi.gg
GBLZ#778

CCub

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
17
Because it’s a man? Didn’t his melee trophy establish him as a man? That’s be like giving Mario or Link female alternates when there characters are established as males. Pokémon trainer and robin Alts make sense because you can choose between male or female in their games.

 

JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL

Smash Lord
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At this point I'm #teammakethisstoppleasepleasemakeitstopitsmakingeveryonegocrazysomeonecall911weneedadirectorsomenewsseriouslyHELPUS.
 

Jumpinjahosafa

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
883
Alright, regarding Mach Rider, are we #TeamMan or #TeamWoman? I, using my cultured knowledge, am 10000% #TeamFemale.
Why not both?

Seriously, the toggle precedent was set in smash 4 with wii fit trainer/robin/corrin and now pokemon trainer. There shouldn't even be a debate here.
 

Cheesehead302

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
19
Wow, I come back to this thread and it's turned into an argument about Mach Rider's gender, why am I not surprised. There must not be a lot of new revelations on the leak today, are there?
 

TVDart

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
125
Then can you please help add to this?
Team Fake:
  • Minor inconsistencies with the background compared to earlier versions.
  • Many insiders including Liam Robertson and Vergeben has actively spoken against this leak.
  • Conflicts directly with the Box Theory.
  • No proof the new plant item found in the Wendy's trailer is actually from Golden Sun.
  • Team Fakers believe that a professional graphic designer would be able to create something like this between the month the Chadendorf Leak dropped and now.
Team Real:
  • The item in the Wendy's Trailer can be pointed directly to being a Golden Sun item.
  • Connects with the Blog Theory. (There's room for 7 new character blog posts.)
  • New renders haven't been found yet and no one has been able to recreate them.
  • New Grinch render was used in a trailer AFTER this leak dropped.
  • The current GD company that would be responsible for the leak (NOT the one that spoke out) has made no comment on the matter.
  • The leak image correlates with a text leak that happened a month ago. (Chadendorf Leak)
  • Team Realers believe that the amount of work needed to create this leak is beyond the scope of any leaker, including moving all the characters around, putting new renders in, making them believable art-wise, the attention to detail, the full blank background for seemingly no reason, the connection to a real graphic design company, the connection to a real person known for working at multiple separate companies, and having it leak out through a snapchat sent to a friend, sent to a private discord group, that leaked onto 4chan makes it real.
I'm sure I'm missing a few pieces to this neverending puzzle but this is a general grasp on where we are now.
 
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