Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

Well, regardless of what happens, I'm prepared for a big helping of nothing tomorrow.


I think it's a good idea to go in with an absolute lack of faith, only to be ecstatic if something does end up happening.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Hmm...

-Notes that reveal timelines have been coming up a fair bit of late-

In the interest of adding a bit of perspective to this brand of speculation, allow me to provide a visual aid.

Spoiler: Smash Reveal Timelines

Of course, the Ultimate timeline in this one is set up based on website launches, so it leaves out the period of time between Ultimate's Teaser and E3. That said, I went ahead and put together a rough graph of Ultimate's timeline for that scenario.

​

There are certainly reasons to believe this cycle will not follow the patterns set by it's predecessors, but it could still be interesting to consider where we stand if it does.

It's interesting to note that those who say it'll be "just like Smash 4" with an anti-climactic ending--if we are able to go by past precedent, then perhaps (and admittedly it's a big perhaps) this still leaves room for a Pac-Man level of reveal before it "trails off".

That being said, I still stick by my position that the marketing of Smash 4 gives us very little indication of how this will end up, as too many things have now been unprecedented (e.g., short cycle, announced same year of release, no hidden characters). It's still very helpful to compare, and this graphic is awesome.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Anyone watch Mcgreogor VS Khabib? Its turning into Multi Man Melee

 

[Danpal65]

It's interesting to note that those who say it'll be "just like Smash 4" with an anti-climactic ending--if we are able to go by past precedent, then perhaps (and admittedly it's a big perhaps) this still leaves room for a Pac-Man level of reveal before it "trails off".

That being said, I still stick by my position that the marketing of Smash 4 gives us very little indication of how this will end up, as too many things have now been unprecedented (e.g., short cycle, announced same year of release, no hidden characters). It's still very helpful to compare, and this graphic is awesome.

Anti-climatic is a very subjective term in regards to character choice. Even if Ridley or K Rool were the final reveals there would be people that find them anti-climactic. Would a character like Incineroar (potentially) excite me? Not much, no. But that doesn't mean it is anti-climactic it just means it isn't a character that appeals to me.

Also. Characters aren't all Smash has. We could end with a reveal of a CGI opening, or "Spirits," or something else.

 

[Shroob]

I'm still VERY excited to see what Spirits mode entails.

Boss battles ala Brawl almost seem like it's just going to be a thing, but how will the mode work? Will it be like Melee's adventure mode? Maybe more like The Great Maze? Maybe even a bit of Smash Run?


We just don't know.

 

[Luigi The President]

Anti-climatic is a very subjective term in regards to character choice. Even if Ridley or K Rool were the final reveals there would be people that find them anti-climactic. Would a character like Incineroar (potentially) excite me? Not much, no. But that doesn't mean it is anti-climactic it just means it isn't a character that appeals to me.

Also. Characters aren't all Smash has. We could end with a reveal of a CGI opening, or "Spirits," or something else.

Characters definitely isn't all Smash has but the vast majority people are not here for Spirits, they are here for their favorite characters. Nintendo understands this. It's about the roster as its core, which is why I don't really entertain the concept of the final "hype" reveal being Spirits or anything.
That's a mode you should detail through the Direct.

 

[Penroze]

Spirits Mode is just a four hour long cutscene of mario drinking vodka and making everyone feel uncomfortable

 

[Shroob]

Characters definitely isn't all Smash has but the vast majority people are not here for Spirits, they are here for their favorite characters. Nintendo understands this. It's about the roster as its core, which is why I don't really entertain the concept of the final "hype" reveal being Spirits or anything.
That's a mode you should detail through the Direct.

To be fair, there's still a LOT of information we're missing.

Various boss fights.

More new items/assists/Pokemon

The supposed 5 new stages

Spirits


to name a few. This finale Direct, whenever it comes, will be packed.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

...What sort of patterns are we talking about?

Ignoring post-delay Brawl for a moment, the most currently relevant pattern is that reveals tend to be back-loaded, increasing in frequency closer to launch.

11 of Wii-U/3DS's 15 Unique Newcomers were added past the halfway point, 9 in the last quarter.

Prior to the delay, Brawl was set to follow something similar, with 5 of its 8 uniques slated for reveal within the final ~2 month period.

IF that pattern holds true for Ultimate -and certain circumstances suggest it may not- it would mean that either...

​

A: In the case of the timeline being calculated based on the website, the expectation would be that 3-5 more reveal dates are on the way.​

​

B: In the case of the timeline being based on the teaser trailer, the expectation would be that 2-4 more reveal dates are on the way.​

​

That said, in either case, context suggests we're much more likely to be on the lower end of either scenario. Of course, that's assuming we're operating under a similar playbook, which we very well may not be.
Oh, and while I would normally say the lack of launch-day reveals throws somewhat of a wrench in things, one could make a reasonable case for "Everyone is Here!" serving as this cycle's equivalent.

Food for thought.



Oh, and just something I thought was fun: Technically, Smash 4's 6/10 direct had the most reveals within a single day, totaling at 6 with Pac-Man, Palutena, Mii Swordfighter, Mii Gunner, Mii Brawler, and Dark Pit

 

[Luigi The President]

To be fair, there's still a LOT of information we're missing.

Vario boss fights.

More new items/assists/Pokemon

The supposed 5 new stages

Spirits


to name a few. This finale Direct, whenever it comes, will be packed.

Yep. I just don't believe it'll begin and end on anything but a character reveal.
Everything in-between is fair game.

 

[Zinith]

Spirits Mode is just a four hour long cutscene of mario drinking vodka and making everyone feel uncomfortable

Not me. I'd just be irritated that he's not sharing that vodka...

 

[CosmicQuark]

Anti-climatic is a very subjective term in regards to character choice. Even if Ridley or K Rool were the final reveals there would be people that find them anti-climactic. Would a character like Incineroar (potentially) excite me? Not much, no. But that doesn't mean it is anti-climactic it just means it isn't a character that appeals to me.

Also. Characters aren't all Smash has. We could end with a reveal of a CGI opening, or "Spirits," or something else.

Indeed, which is why I tried to make it clear that's not my position--but using their arguments to draw a different conclusion. I could have made that a bit more clear, though.

 

[Shroob]

Yep. I just don't believe it'll begin and end on anything but a character reveal.
Everything in-between is fair game.

Now, the thing is, while I get the logic of ending on a character reveal...


Wouldn't you want a section where Sakurai talks about the character before the Direct ends?



Like, I get it, having them drop........say Geno at the end would be hype as ****, but at the same time, I'd honestly like them to...not just drop the character and leave it at that, if that makes sense? I'd much prefer it to be like Bayonetta's, where we got the trailer and then a solid chunk of time for Sakurai to detail her.



I'd kinda prefer our 'surprise' reveal to be a Mewtwo-scenario, where it's the first DLC character, frankly.

 

[Luigi The President]

Now, the thing is, while I get the logic of ending on a character reveal...


Wouldn't you want a section where Sakurai talks about the character before the Direct ends?



Like, I get it, having them drop........say Geno at the end would be hype as ****, but at the same time, I'd honestly like them to...not just drop the character and leave it at that, if that makes sense? I'd much prefer it to be like Bayonetta's, where we got the trailer and then a solid chunk of time for Sakurai to detail her.



I'd kinda prefer our 'surprise' reveal to be a Mewtwo-scenario, where it's the first DLC character, frankly.

Honestly nah man.

I'd LOVE the last character trailer dropping, than a simple reminder that's like "the game's dropping in a week fellas"

Gives us more time to speculate with what we've got. Just gives me more suspense.

 

[osby]

Spirits Mode is just a four hour long cutscene of mario drinking vodka and making everyone feel uncomfortable

I didn't knew they brought Andy Warhol to direct the story mode.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Not me. I'd just be irritated that he's not sharing that vodka...

We all know Yoshi would lick the vodka out of Mario's hand and gobble the whole thing.

 

[Plumstar]

Here’s maybe a fun little side quest:

We know we have nacho Libre Pikachu. And Wedding Mario. And two Ikes. Yarn Yoshi. Mecha-Ridley. But what do you think are potential alt costumes that we have yet to see?

What are your top 10 alt costumes that you think are likely to be included? Likely as easy to develop and implement without much time spent into it?

Here's my top 10 alt costumes that I'd like to see but some may be unlikely (not in order).
10) Wedding Bowser.
9) Ash-greninja.
8) Hilda (I don't think Zelda has an alt that's strikingly similar to her, she could be an echo though).
7) Morpho Knight (Meta Knight alt).
6) I've always wanted a Masked Dedede alt, but since it's his final smash I don't think it will happen.
5) idk, if Peach can have an alt of Daisy, then Daisy can have an alt of Peach...? That will be cool.
4) If Funky Kong isn't a character, then I'd like to see DK with a Funky Kong alt.
3) Redhead Simon Belmont.
2) Pink Gold Peach (for Nathaniel Bandy of course).
1) Frederick (Chrom alt).

 

[Thinkaman]

It is unlikely that there are additional items, Pokemon, and Assist Trophies, as the amount revealed matches the amount they told us to expect, and the website was seemingly updated to final descriptions. It also matches the amount of content to be revealed on the blog up until release day.

It is also unlikely that there are additional stages, because of the same reasons plus basic reading and listening comprehension.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Now, the thing is, while I get the logic of ending on a character reveal...


Wouldn't you want a section where Sakurai talks about the character before the Direct ends?



Like, I get it, having them drop........say Geno at the end would be hype as ****, but at the same time, I'd honestly like them to...not just drop the character and leave it at that, if that makes sense? I'd much prefer it to be like Bayonetta's, where we got the trailer and then a solid chunk of time for Sakurai to detail her.



I'd kinda prefer our 'surprise' reveal to be a Mewtwo-scenario, where it's the first DLC character, frankly.

Nah I prefer a character reveal towards the end. It’s just always a nice surprise to see who it is.

 

[Penroze]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

 

[Luigi The President]

It is unlikely that there are additional items, Pokemon, and Assist Trophies, as the amount revealed matches the amount they told us to expect, and the website was seemingly updated to final descriptions. It also matches the amount of content to be revealed on the blog up until release day.

It is also unlikely that there are additional stages, because of the same reasons plus basic reading and listening comprehension.

A bit confused. Is your implication here that there's no more AT's or Pokemons to see? Because isn't that...factually untrue?

Now on the stage thing, I still believe in the good ol' 108 stages due to Corocoro.

But I'm just held up on your first part.

 

[Shroob]

It is unlikely that there are additional items, Pokemon, and Assist Trophies, as the amount revealed matches the amount they told us to expect, and the website was seemingly updated to final descriptions. It also matches the amount of content to be revealed on the blog up until release day.

It is also unlikely that there are additional stages, because of the same reasons plus basic reading and listening comprehension.

I mean, yeah, there are indeed more Pokemon, Items and Assist. The original Direct said 50+ Assists and we're like 10 shy of that.

I didn't necessarily mean 'new ones, like how Ashley was revealed.



And, please, let's not start on "103 vs 108" again, there's evidence for both sides.

 

[Zinith]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

Yoshi should get an AT, maybe Poochy or Prince Froggy

 

[CBO0tz]

I'd be super excited if Isaac, Bandana Dee, and/or Decidueye were revealed. With Dixie, Ken, and Medusa being revealed as Echo Fighters.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

Hmm I guess a rhythm heaven AT rep? Are there even any in ultimate yet?
Edit: looking forward to more stages though. I would like a Minecraft stage

 

[osby]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

Eh, I don't think we need a rep for repping's sake and Punch Out did got a pretty nice stage and a playable character, alongside with multiple music tracks so I think it gained more than it lost.

However, I wouldn't mind a new AT from the series.

EDIT: To answer the question, I want more returning items. As for new ones, anything from Sonic would be cool but chances of that happening are slim.

 

[Penroze]

Hmm I guess a rhythm heaven AT rep? Are there even any in ultimate yet? A bit confuse by your question tbh

My question is just about what you want in Smash Ultimate that isn't a playable character. Sorry if it was confusing

 

[xAquaCrystal]

My question is just about what you want in Smash Ultimate that isn't a playable character. Sorry if it was confusing

Lol sorry I edited my comment but I will answer you here. I guess more stages. Tbh I would like a Minecraft stage and maybe a rhythm heaven AT but mostly looking forward to stages

 

[AreJay25]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

A personal hope of mine is Aran Ryan as an AT.

Some might say King Hippo would be a better fit, but King Hippo doesn't have a boxing glove whip that's clearly legal within the rules of the sport.

 

[FalconFire93]

Here's my top 10 alt costumes that I'd like to see but some may be unlikely (not in order).
10) Wedding Bowser.
9) Ash-greninja.
8) Hilda (I don't think Zelda has an alt that's strikingly similar to her, she could be an echo though).
7) Morpho Knight (Meta Knight alt).
6) I've always wanted a Masked Dedede alt, but since it's his final smash I don't think it will happen.
5) idk, if Peach can have an alt of Daisy, then Daisy can have an alt of Peach...? That will be cool.
4) If Funky Kong isn't a character, then I'd like to see DK with a Funky Kong alt.
3) Redhead Simon Belmont.
2) Pink Gold Peach (for Nathaniel Bandy of course).
1) Frederick (Chrom alt).

Those are all very good ideas, I’d like to see the red head Simon that you’re referring to from Castlevania Judgement as Simon’s Alt and that’s my favorite look with the classic look being my all time favorite.

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

I’d personally would like to see King Hippo as a playable villain for a new Punch-Out!! rep, but I know his chances are really slim though at this point.

 

[Noipoi]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?
I, for one, am really hoping for at least a Punch Out assist trophy. A playable character would be nice too, but ever since Little Mac got promoted to fighter, it feels like he's left a hole in the AT roster where a Punch Out rep should be.

Exor.
He plunges into the stage three times, once on the left, once on the right, and once in the middle.
Each strike does massive damage.

 

[Shroob]

60 days, 23 hours, 16 minutes


Well, we're in the home stretch, fellas.

 

[Noipoi]

60 days, 23 hours, 16 minutes


Well, we're in the home stretch, fellas.

It still feels like just yesterday I was calling my friend screaming "THE SQUIDS ARE IN SMASH".

I can't believe it's almost time.

 

[Flyboy]

The only Castlevania alt attire I want to see is Symphony of the Night Richter. Alucard is already in and Richter's reveal cutscene referenced his famous line from the opening! Give us long-haired Richter!

 

[osby]

It still feels like just yesterday I was calling my friend screaming "THE SQUIDS ARE IN SMASH".

I can't believe it's almost time.

Don't forget "Rex/Spring Man/Decidueye are lock" and "man, I can't believe they are going to cut every character who looked at me wrong way".

 

[Thinkaman]

There are currently 68 revealed items in Ultimate, and we were promised more than Smash 4. (77) We have not yet seen:

• Home-Run Bat
• Freezie
• Rolling Crate
• Soccer Ball
• Lightning Bolt
• Blast Box
• Deku Nut
• Pitfall
• Smoke Ball
• Spring
• Unira
• Team Healer
• Grass
• Daybreak
• Special Flag
• Back Shield
• Fire Bar
• Steel Diver
• Gust Bellows
• Boomerang

We have also technically not seen 6 other items from previous Smash games, which I doubt will return.


There are currently 36 revealed Pokeball Pokemon in Ultimate, and we were promised more than Smash 4. (40) We have not yet seen:

• Moltres
• Togepi
• Gardevoir
• Arceus
• Dedenne
• Fennekin
• Fletchling
• Genesect
• Gogoat
• Inkay
• Keldeo
• Kyurem
• Meloetta
• Oshawott
• Snivy
• Spewpa
• Swirlix
• Victini

...in addition to 30 other Pokemon from past Smash games, which I don't expect to return.


There are currently 40 revealed assist trophies in Smash Ultimate, and we were promised "over 50." We have not yet seen:

• Devil
• Infantry and Tanks
• Kat and Ana
• Lakitu and Spinies
• Saki Amamiya
• Shadow the Hedgehog
• Tingle
• Chain Chomp
• Dillon
• Elec Man
• Magnus
• Nightmare
• Phosphora
• Sablé Prince
• Skull Kid

...in addition to 7 removed from Brawl to 4 because the characters had grown irrelevant, like Isaac.


In all 3 cases, it is a safe bet that the returning content more than makes up the deficit, with perhaps one or two things saved for spoilers (like Alucard). Additionally, more than a couple additional new entries would put us over the blog schedule, for what that's worth.

Maybe Sakurai really is getting rid of the Home Run Bat and Freezie, Gardevoir and Togepi, and Lakitu and Kat/Ana. Or maybe that's really dumb and the last direct is focusing on all the single player and online content, just as the last one focused on all the items/Pokemon/Assist Trophies/stages/songs.

 

[Danpal65]

Hey, since we're talking about how there are things in Smash besides playable characters, does anyone have any big hopes for things that aren't playable characters?

Top of my list is definitely a CGI opening for the game. Step down from that and I'd be looking at a ton of Xenoblade music and hopefully a Planet Mira stage or something.

 

[Paperchampion23]

There are currently 68 revealed items in Ultimate, and we were promised more than Smash 4. (77) We have not yet seen:

• Home-Run Bat
• Freezie
• Rolling Crate
• Soccer Ball
• Lightning Bolt
• Blast Box
• Deku Nut
• Pitfall
• Smoke Ball
• Spring
• Unira
• Team Healer
• Grass
• Daybreak
• Special Flag
• Back Shield
• Fire Bar
• Steel Diver
• Gust Bellows
• Boomerang

We have also technically not seen 6 other items from previous Smash games, which I doubt will return.


There are currently 36 revealed Pokeball Pokemon in Ultimate, and we were promised more than Smash 4. (40) We have not yet seen:

• Moltres
• Togepi
• Gardevoir
• Arceus
• Dedenne
• Fennekin
• Fletchling
• Genesect
• Gogoat
• Inkay
• Keldeo
• Kyurem
• Meloetta
• Oshawott
• Snivy
• Spewpa
• Swirlix
• Victini

...in addition to 30 other Pokemon from past Smash games, which I don't expect to return.


There are currently 40 revealed assist trophies in Smash Ultimate, and we were promised "over 50." We have not yet seen:

• Devil
• Infantry and Tanks
• Kat and Ana
• Lakitu and Spinies
• Saki Amamiya
• Shadow the Hedgehog
• Tingle
• Chain Chomp
• Dillon
• Elec Man
• Magnus
• Nightmare
• Phosphora
• Sablé Prince
• Skull Kid

...in addition to 7 removed from Brawl to 4 because the characters had grown irrelevant, like Isaac.


In all 3 cases, it is a safe bet that the returning content more than makes up the deficit. Additionally, more than a couple additional new entries would put us over the blog schedule, for what that's worth.

Maybe Sakurai really is getting rid of the Home Run Bat and Freezie, Gardevoir and Togepi, and Lakitu and Kat/Ana. Or maybe that's really dumb and the last direct is focusing on all the single player and online content, just as the last one focused on all the items/Pokemon/Assist Trophies.

I don't think Irrelevancy was why certain characters were removed. We don't know why. Custom Robo stayed as an AT for Smash 4, yet is now discontinued and not retrademarked. Golden Sun just got retrademarked 3 years early.

My guess is Isaac was actually supposed to be promoted like Little Mac from an AT to a character, but other characters took priority.

 

[Chrono.]

I don't think Irrelevancy was why certain characters were removed. We don't know why. Custom Robo stayed as an AT for Smash 4, yet is now discontinued and not retrademarked. Golden Sun just got retrademarked 3 years early.

My guess is Isaac was actually supposed to be promoted like Little Mac from an AT to a character, but other characters took priority.

Ray wasn't in Smash 4.

Isaac probably got removed just because. There's zero reason to think he was ever planned to be playable.

 

[osby]

I don't think Irrelevancy was why certain characters were removed. We don't know why. Custom Robo stayed as an AT for Smash 4, yet is now discontinued and not retrademarked. Golden Sun just got retrademarked 3 years early.

My guess is Isaac was actually supposed to be promoted like Little Mac from an AT to a character, but other characters took priority.

Aren't every playable character (bar Robin and Greninja) decided before development even started? My guess would be either other Assist Trophies took priority or it caused problems in 3DS version.