Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Starbound]

Watch the Box Theory be true but the two characters aren't Ken and Incineroar.

Hey, if it's Zack Fair and Buzzwole I'm totally cool with it.

 

[The Animator]

Its going to be a real bummer if there really is only one unique fighter left. It is an odd to leave two empty spaces if this is not the final design since they could have easily filled in the whole thing to make the image more presentable for the public. But I really don't see them ending the count on dinner for two. 70 unique fighters makes more sense. My expectations will be kept low anyway.

 

[Zinith]

I said that I won't be disappointed with the final roster, whatever form it takes. But I was expecting that to be AT LAUNCH of the game. Having the roster semi-revealed 3 months early because employees at Nintendo didn't think about the implications of box art is kinda irritating. Now I won't hear the end of it for 3 months!!!

 

[Pakky]

Dumb thought:

But when Sakurai said he bought a 'toy gun'

If he literally said 'toy gun' it could just be a Geno pun and have nothing to do with an actual gun.

Geno is a 'toy' that uses 'guns'

 

[Nethermoosen]

I miss the days when Impa, Elma, Decidueye, Captain Toad, Bandana Dee, Shadow, and Labo Man were actually discussed and the speculation came from how likely they all were.

They now seem like distant memories and lost dreams

DLC, my guy.
Even when the game releases, we’ve got speculation for a while.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I think we're all acting a little overly confident about Ken and Incineroar when there's still potentially other characters that could fill the spot.

My guesses for the final two fighters are Gothitelle (unique fighter, Gen 5 rep) and Randall (Cloud echo, second Yoshi rep).

Any one with even two brain cells left know it's actually gonna be Steve and Goku (Mario echo)

 

[Jetsurge]

Here's my take on the box theory - It's probably because Ken and Incineroar will be the final characters revealed before the box is printed and shipped out. The final characters will probably be revealed too close to release for them to put them on the box.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

It would be making extra assumptions about Vergeben's information to stretch it to fit the box theory, while Vergeben has been presenting his information as base content, and it's not like Vergeben hasn't claimed stuff to be DLC before (both with right and wrong information), so if the SE character is DLC he will come out and say it at some point. As such, I'm still of the mind that Vergeben's leaks and the box theory are incompatible with the current information we have.

That said, it wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to ask him his thoughts on the box theory and the possibility of the SE character being DLC.

Is there anyway to directly contact him?

 

[Shroob]

Is there anyway to directly contact him?

Reddit.

I messaged him once and got a reply, but nothing past that.

 

[Deleted member]

Gothitelle (unique fighter, Gen 5 rep)

Yes...YES! IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER NOW.

 

[zyaire33]

Fan theories aside, I think we’ll at least get/want to have our boys Geno and Skull Kid. Second priority for me goes to Shadow, Ken, Issac, Pokémon, and Bandana Waddle Dee

Geno, Skull Kid + any of the others and I’ll be set

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

We already discussed DLC and Spirits before.

DLC is likrly gonma have a preplanned character to really sell the consumers and show that they're listening to fans like with Mewtwo, and then it comes down to the most popular "realisable" characters.

Spirits is likely a singleplayer campaign similar to Adventure/Story Mode, or something like Smash Run but likely improved. The bosses we've heard of are speculated and considered likely to appear in this mode, lending more credit to it being like the Adventure or Story modes. It's also likely to be 3-D models in a 2-D sidescroller fashion like literally every other campaign we've had in the series, with enemies from the franchises likely to show up.

I think we've got all but the reason for the "Spirits" name pegged.

 

[Luigi The President]

Here's my take on the box theory - It's probably because Ken and Incineroar will be the final characters revealed before the box is printed and shipped out. The final characters will probably be revealed too close to release for them to put them on the box.

I never considered this.
These boxes ship out in very early November.
Hm...hm.

 

[Dee Dude]

I'm kind of indifferent to him too. Not hating or anything, but it seems like his popularity basically comes from being talked about as a Smash contender. Some people want him in, others debate that he shouldn't be in, and the discussion draws in more people from the community and the whole thing just grows. Suddenly, Geno is one of the most popular character choices despite being pretty unimportant even in the one game he came from over a decade ago.

Smash speculation is literally the reason he’s primarily popular and that known by most people, I understand why people want him mostly out of SMRPG nostalgia and creative moveset potential but treating some one-shot side character from a 22 year old spin-off game as some legendary long-awaited missing puzzle piece to the Smash series is pretty damn ridiculous imo.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Reddit.

I messaged him once and got a reply, but nothing past that.

I might try that in a bit. Using the summed up box theory.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Is there anyway to directly contact him?

You can do so on reddit and gamefaqs, people ask him stuff all the time and he replies sporadically.

His reddit account

His gamefaqs account

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, at this point, just drop the next Smash Direct in early October and coast on the blog with Direct info until the game comes out IMO.

 

[UberMadman]

It would be making extra assumptions about Vergeben's information to stretch it to fit the box theory, while Vergeben has been presenting his information as base content, and it's not like Vergeben hasn't claimed stuff to be DLC before (both with right and wrong information), so if the SE character is DLC he will come out and say it at some point. As such, I'm still of the mind that Vergeben's leaks and the box theory are incompatible with the current information we have.

That said, it wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to ask him his thoughts on the box theory and the possibility of the SE character being DLC.

The only other thing I would add to this is that I think it’s highly possible one of his sources misinterpreted one of the DLC characters as base roster. Developmentally that wouldn’t make sense of course, but that assumes that Vergeben’s sources know about the development of the game directly and not something like, say, the talks or the project plan. Maybe Sakurai was talking with Square for a really long time about Geno, but approval and development ended up being too late for the base roster. If you only knew of the existence of these conversations and what they entailed but didn’t have access to the actual information about the physical development of the game itself, it would be easy to interpret Geno as a base roster character.

TL;DR: I think Vergeben and his sources probably do think all the characters they are reporting on are planned for the base roster, but depending on how they got the information, they may be misinformed or otherwise lack the full picture. And I agree that it would be very useful for Vergeben to provide more perspective on this; I really want to hear his take on all this box business.

 

[RandomAce]

I’m looking here right now, and honest I see a lot of contradictions.

Firstly, we’re treating Verge as 100% fact right now. That’s where I see a lot of the basis when it comes to speculation of this box theory, as a matter of fact Verge himself said that we shouldn’t take everything he says at face value.

Secondly, we’re pulling apart some of Verg’s leaks to justify this theory. Yes, Scoliosis Jones , Verge is a lot more shaky when it comes with the Square Enix character since he really is unsure of who it could be since the source who named the character isn’t his main source, however, the source that leaked Simon also leaked that an SE character is still coming. After this, it implies that Geno may be the one, seeing that we have actual evidence of Sakurai wanting him and a strong imply that Geno was a very popular choice, he has a lot of evidence going for him. Is it possible he (or possibly anyone else) may be DLC, yeah, but it really comes off as straw grasping since there are so many variables to consider when it comes to why Geno or a second SE is DLC, and how anyone is able to pass on this sort of information that is most likely in very early development.

This leads into my third point. If we are giving up on that second Square Enix Rep because of lack of sources, why is everyone saying Incineroar is a lock? DO NOT SAY THAT I’M BIASED, Incineroar is in the same boat as the SE Character, in which only one reliable source said it was him and that he was never supposed to be leaked in the first place if it weren’t for Loz18 leaking their conversations (this is when I lost faith in Loz18). In fact he was never even going to “deconfirm” Lycanroc or Mimikyu either if someone in the GameFAQs thread hadn’t told everyone that Verge should’ve disconfirmed so and so as well

Spoiler: Insider Rumor

(there’s been some rumors that some of the insiders have stated that Vergeben might have jumped the gun when he first stated that, implying that he could’ve put his sources at risk. This was before Verge seemed to take his leaks more seriously. Take that as you will).

The only character Verg recently stated to be very sure of is Ken.

This also goes into my final point, why did Nintendo decide to allow to release the box art in this form? This is much less strong in term of evidence but I wanted to point this out. This isn’t the Simon incident where it was directly the day before the reveal that a music file name was accidentally shown. This is MONTHS away from the release date of hype to help Nintendo get through 2018, and the fact that they “accidentally” revealed the roster size where the rest of the newcomer roster could be spoiled would be a terrible move on Nintendo’s part, despite them most likely being able to alter the presentation of their products to meet their regulations to prevent such leaks that they are right now trying to put a lot more effort into preventing them.

Overall, I’m really conflicted to believe this theory based on the points I listed. Some of the things people brought up sort of conflicted with some of the information Verg has leaked, and the fact that Nintendo could’ve let out some very important information despite them being most likely able to regulate their products representation to prevent such information is why I’m not deciding to not go on the other side of the fence when it comes to this.

 

[Whia]

Here's my take on the box theory - It's probably because Ken and Incineroar will be the final characters revealed before the box is printed and shipped out. The final characters will probably be revealed too close to release for them to put them on the box.

...**** this is actually an interesting point.

Because at the very least it puts a deadline on this theory's validity. The box drops November 2nd, which presumably means we have to see the entire roster by then.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Finally a newcomer character that appeals to a different demographic! so far the only new characters I care about are Daisy and Isabelle, I knew she was so important that they would have her as a unique character.

So happy Animal Crossing Switch has been confirmed!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I am incredibly satisfied with this roster. 100% if it is done right now and all we really get is Inceneroar and Ken then fine. I'd be ecstatic for both of them but I just want one more thing from this game. That's all, one more. I just want Isaac as DLC. As much as I love the roster there has been fans of this character that has fought tooth and nail for this character since 2001 and I feel like they, we, deserve him as much as any other character that could be in as DLC. One last thing. And this game is perfect.

And if we could get Geno as well that'd be great, thanx.

 

[Starbound]

There have been a few fake leaks saying spirits are sticky with one of them saying trophies are gone so I'm going to entertain it for Spirits mode.

You collect Spirits similar to the way we used to collect trophies, stickers and customs (by doing basically anything). Going into the mode, which is functionally a splitscreen Smash Run, you take your fighter (who is a doll this time instead of a trophy because trophies are replaced) and modify them with spirits, which change your fighters stats similar to custom equipment. Rounds are longer than Smash run, and some of the events are added boss battles (Dracula, Rathalos, etc). Despite the Smash Run reference, it being bigger in scope makes it kind of more like 'The Great Maze' from SSE.

In Vault, you've got a 'Spirits Gallery', where you view your spirit collection ala trophies, and the 'Spirit Hunt', where you go hunting for spirits to collect in a Luigi's Mansion-esque video game (the new version of Trophy Rush).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I think this whole box theory is idiotic i. My opinio

I don’t even think all of the characters are on it (excluding not shown yet and Isabelle)

 

[Dee Dude]

Screw it, I’m totally on board for Incinaroar, we don’t have a wrestler in Smash yet and I’m always looking for new weapon/fighting styles in the series. (Staff, Spears etc)

The only argument I see is that he would be another heavyweight fire user but that doesn’t really matter to me as long he’s fun.

Plus our first feline character in Smash!

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Just realized this box art is fake. We are missing the most obvious newcomer that was leaked earlier:

Stanene

 

[Jedisupersonic]

You can do so on reddit and gamefaqs, people ask him stuff all the time and he replies sporadically.

His reddit account

His gamefaqs account

Thank you very much, if I do contact him I’ll see what info I can get.

 

[Shroob]

Uhm.... why does the box drop November 2nd?


That box isn't the same box as the one with the Switch, guys.

This is the one with the steelbook, which doesn't come out until the game launches.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Here's my take on the box theory - It's probably because Ken and Incineroar will be the final characters revealed before the box is printed and shipped out. The final characters will probably be revealed too close to release for them to put them on the box.

If Incineroar is in, shortly after Isabelle's reveal I noticed Vergeben's characters have been revealed roughly in order, so I was thinking it was very possible we get a Robin/Lucina style reveal before the last direct with him and Ken, seeing how Ken could easily thematically fit into Incineroar's probable trailer and it could be revealed ahead of the final Smash direct that I expect to be in November. As such, if the box theory is true, I could see this as being a way for it to still fit with Vergeben.

 

[Luigi The President]

Uhm.... why does the box drop November 2nd?


That box isn't the same box as the one with the Switch, guys.

This is the one with the steelbook, which doesn't come out until the game launches.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Guys Snake isn't coming back Konami is an ***.

But.. but... i've seen footage! Pics! Look i have one right here:

Spoiler: Snake in Ultimate

There he i-

Nevermind... it's just a box

FYI this box joke is unrelated to the box theory...

 

[Chrono.]

...**** this is actually an interesting point.

Because at the very least it puts a deadline on this theory's validity. The box drops November 2nd, which presumably means we have to see the entire roster by then.

Why wouldn't they already have a box art with the entire roster printed or somewhere in a computer?

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

I feel like I’m the only one on this forum who doesn’t care about Geno.

Man, I'd be insanely hype to see Lara Croft be the Square Enix rep Vergeben was speculating. She'd be perfect as the first DLC character - someone with longstanding legacy and popularity in video game culture that branches outside of Nintendo favorites, akin to Cloud and Ryu.

 

[Darkraid]

I am pretty much convinced that Ken and Incineroar are our final base chars.

Here's where we are wrong. Because remember Mewtwo? Geno and Skull Kid are free DLC for Switch Online users.

They will be the first 2 DLC available in 2019.

Maybe they could not finish them on time.

We should know that Vergeben said a SE char

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I’m looking here right now, and honest I see a lot of contradictions.

Firstly, we’re treating Verge as 100% fact right now. That’s where I see a lot of the basis when it comes to speculation of this box theory, as a matter of fact Verge himself said that we shouldn’t take everything he says at face value.

Secondly, we’re pulling apart some of Verg’s leaks to justify this theory. Yes, Scoliosis Jones , Verge is a lot more shaky when it comes with the Square Enix character since he really is unsure of who it could be since the source who named the character isn’t his main source, however, the source that leaked Simon also leaked that an SE character is still coming. After this, it implies that Geno may be the one, seeing that we have actual evidence of Sakurai wanting him and a strong imply that Geno was a very popular choice, he has a lot of evidence going for him. Is it possible he (or possibly anyone else) may be DLC, yeah, but it really comes off as straw grasping since there are so many variables to consider when it comes to why Geno or a second SE is DLC, and how anyone is able to pass on this sort of information that is most likely in very early development.

This leads into my third point. If we are giving up on that second Square Enix Rep because of lack of sources, why is everyone saying Incineroar is a lock. DO NOT SAY THAT I’M BIASED, Incineroar is in the same boat as the SE Character, in which only one reliable source said it was him and that he was never supposed to be leaked in the first place if it weren’t for Loz18 leaking their conversations (this is when I lost faith in Loz18). In fact he was never even going to “deconfirm” Lycanroc or Mimikyu either if someone in the GameFAQs thread hadn’t told everyone that Verge should’ve disconfirmed so and so as well

Spoiler: Insider Rumor

(there’s been some rumors that some of the insiders have stated that Vergeben might have jumped the gun when he first stated that, implying that he could’ve put his sources at risk. This was before Verge seemed to take his leaks more seriously. Take that as you will).

The only character Verg recently stated to be very sure of is Ken.

This also goes into my final point, why did Nintendo decide to allow to release the box art in this form? This is much less strong in term of evidence but I wanted to point this out. This isn’t the Simon incident where it was directly the day before the reveal that a music file name was accidentally shown. This is MONTHS away from the release date of hype to help Nintendo get through 2018, and the fact that they “accidentally” revealed the roster size where the rest of the newcomer roster could be spoiled would be a terrible move on Nintendo’s part, despite them most likely being able to alter the presentation of their products to meet their regulations to prevent such leaks that they are right now trying to put a lot more effort into preventing them.

Overall, I’m really conflicted to believe this theory based on the points I listed. Some of the things people brought up sort of conflicted with some of the information Verg has leaked, and the fact that Nintendo could’ve let out some very important information despite them being most likely able to regulate their products representation to prevent such information is why I’m not deciding to not go on the other side of the fence when it comes to this.

Okay but can we get a source on that "Insider Rumour" tho?

 

[Jetsurge]

If Incineroar is in, shortly after Isabelle's reveal I noticed Vergeben's characters have been revealed roughly in order, so I was thinking it was very possible we get a Robin/Lucina style reveal before the last direct with him and Ken, seeing how Ken could easily thematically fit into Incineroar's probable trailer and it could be revealed ahead of the final Smash direct that I expect to be in November. As such, if the box theory is true, I could see this as being a way for it to still fit with Vergeben.

I think there will be a Incineroar/Ken trailer livestreamed in October then a final Smash direct will be announced for November

 

[SonicMario]

Not to spoil your guys hope that the box might just have only the characters revealed at that point...

What if an October Smash direct is the one where the rest of the characters are revealed? And it's indeed only two more?

 

[Astroworld]

hot take but Id rather have a shy guy with a spear than Bandana Dee

 

[Paperchampion23]

I am incredibly satisfied with this roster. 100% if it is done right now and all we really get is Inceneroar and Ken then fine. I'd be ecstatic for both of them but I just want one more thing from this game. That's all, one more. I just want Isaac as DLC. As much as I love the roster there has been fans of this character that has fought tooth and nail for this character since 2001 and I feel like they, we, deserve him as much as any other character that could be in as DLC. One last thing. And this game is perfect.

And if we could get Geno as well that'd be great, thanx.

They both quite literally go with K. Rool and Ridley as the most requested characters since Brawl. All 4 were clamored for for over 10 years now. With half them confirmed for the game already, it'd be nice to finish the other half, base or DLC.

 

[Whia]

Why wouldn't they already have a box art with the entire roster printed?

That's the point. It will, which means we'd need to know the entire roster by the time the boxes ship.