Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Green_Pikmin*]

This is a tough one...If I were to go with this box theory I would now expect...

-Late October/Early November Smash Direct that is released before or on November 2nd to coincide with whether fans decide they want to Pre Order the Smash Switch Bundle before the holidays.

-The direct starts off with the last character trailer (#69 Incineroar etc.)

-Ken is the last Echo Fighter, and finishes off the base roster at 72 characters total (76 counting Mii variations and Pokemon Trainer)

-Direct goes over some movesets for some other characters, new characters

-Shows off new "Spirits" Mode with the streamline on how to unlock characters

-Skull Kid might end up as a boss character along with some others (possibly Eggman or even Shadow?)

-Ends off Teasing DLC for 2019 with a character in development (Similar to Mewtwo back in 2014)

 

[Pakky]

No no no, you forgot King K. Rool's finest hour.

Right, right how could I forget!

Still, though WOW Eggman has been in a lot.

 

[Jetsurge]

So according to the box theory there will be 69 unique characters.... (I personally believe it's just the amount of characters that will be revealed when the box is printed)

 

[Noipoi]

Why are people getting so mad at the box theory? It's not like people want it to be real.
What's wrong with people lowering their expectations?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Ken and Incineroar are not gonna be the last reveals lol, if you truly believe they are gonna be the last hype material before release you all are delusional. Good night

>Olimar being last revealed after Sonic and Snake
>Shulk being last revealed after Megaman and Pac-Man
>Incineroar being last revealed after Simon, Ridley, and K. Rool

Compared to the last two games in the series, this makes complete sense.

If you have evidence to the contrary besides "lalalala I can't hear you" I'm willing to listen.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Was joking about the last newcomer for the base roster but I guess the wording was off lol.

Don’t worry about it. That post was in response to a bunch of people. You just happened to be the most recent person i saw say end lol.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

I hope I don't come off as rude, but you shouldn't say some people are in denial about this. A) It's not denial, it's skepticism. B) This is nothing more than a theory as of now.

Yes, I know there is some good evidence to support it and I will not argue against the claims made for the supporters of this box theory. But (and I am not saying everyone is doing this) to treat this like this is fact so early, while also saying some people are in denial about a theory actively hurts the entire point of this thread and Smash discussion in general; that is not speculating responsibly.

Again, the possibility is present, but until a direct confirmation, this will remain a theory. Please respect each other's thoughts and opinions regarding this topic accordingly.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

So... we think a Pokémon could be #69?

And the most common thought is Incineroar?

Well... I guess bara fans win

 

[mynameisBlade]

I missed this box theory. Is it related to the missing blog posts thing?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Box is edited:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...s_to_include_every/?utm_source=reddit-android

Refer to the top comment in this Reddit post.

It's clearly a 3d modeled image that has been heavily edited. Let's stop using it as a basis for anything plz

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Thank you for providing a reasonable counterargument.

Despite this, I can't exactly elaborate on that (not just because it wouldn't make sense to anyone) but I have my own reasons for believing the Square Enix character is false. Despite Verg having a supposed connection with another user on GameFAQS mentioning the validity of a particular character, I still feel that something is up with that particular character.

Another part of me has a feeling that, if there is a SE character in the game, they could absolutely end up as our first DLC character. I don't have as much to say in regards to that though.

I know the PR speak of no DLC consideration until after the game is released is likely bull****, so I find it believable that some DLC characters are already decided (and maybe even already in development) and thus would find it possible that Vergeben's SE character is DLC, but until he says so himself or it gets revealed as such I'm more inclined towards it being a base character.

 

[Nethermoosen]

So, In agreement with the Box Theory.
View attachment 164375
and
View attachment 164376
It looks so nice. And makes so much sense. This has to be the final roster.

Ken and someone.

72 makes a good number for the box. The CSS look nice. With the collapsed, the N64 original 12 are first row. Melee is second. Brawl is 3rd. Smash 4 is forth. DLC and newcombers in Ultimate is 5th (with some fudging)

Expanded. Newcomers to Ultimate all line the bottom row. All echos are with their counterparts. Space for DLC.

I think we have it people.

And Smashdown works perfectly for all number of players. So, it has that going for it, too.

 

[LetterO]

Why are people getting so mad at the box theory? It's not like people want it to be real.
What's wrong with people lowering their expectations?

People treating it like it's already set in stone that we're getting 2 more characters despite the fact we have 3 months until release.

 

[Hinata]

As far as newcomer numbers go, all I'm hopin' for is that we end on a nice round number like 75 or somethin'.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I predict there will be 2 more newcomers and 2 more echo fighters, and people will be disappointed, because they didn't heed Sakurai's warning to not expect too many new challengers.

I guess I'm the fool for expecting this many new characters lol.

 

[Jetsurge]

So... we think a Pokémon could be #69?

And the most common thought is Incineroar?

Well... I guess bara fans win

I guess Incineroar vs Ken will be the next trailer

 

[praline]

And Smashdown works perfectly for all number of players. So, it has that going for it, too.

And then when dlc happens smashdown gets completely ruined

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yeah, I can't buy this being the whole thing.

This is obviously not a physical box at this point, so until they actually print the real thing, all of this is guessing. How likely is it that a product will look 100% exactly like a render posted 2 months in advance, particularly if secrets still need to be kept?

Sakurai knows how hungry we are and that we would absolutely do an analysis like this, so I can't see him just tossing away his last few cards in such an unceremonious manner. If he was furious enough that Brawl's cutscenes ended up on Youtube, or that the ESRB leak happened, why is he suddenly okay with dropping this with an "oh, they'll figure that there's another echo, probably Ken, and one more, and they'll all assume it's the Pokémon."

And I'm meant to believe that his next Smash direct, which is going to be big since it also needs to explain the other mode, will only feature two characters? We got more than that during the random drop of Robin/Lucy for 4 (it also confirmed Falcon returning).

I guess we just need another echo announced, since literally any echo not between 54 and 61 will throw off the theory (and if it isn't Ken, then we get to toss Vergeben as well?).

 

[Mega Bidoof]

As far as newcomer numbers go, all I'm hopin' for is that we end on a nice round number like 75 or somethin'.

I’m down for a nice gigantic #69 on the box.

Can’t wait for Incineroar’s render to have him with a really smug face, and to have #69 right next to it.

 

[Aurane]

Guys Snake isn't coming back Konami is an ***.

I'm just imagining that one video of the dude in the snake pen slapping a cobra.

The guy is Konami and the Cobra is Snake.

Seriously why doesn't this exist as a video?

 

[Radical Bones]

The brand team at my workplace change product packaging about 15 times before release FYI.

Corporations as large as mine, with Nintendo being even bigger hardly even consider agency costs like packaging as it's a tax write off anyway.

Wouldn't put too much into the theory based on my personal experience but it's up to you to make your own opinions.

 

[UberMadman]

what is music theory?

After every newcomer reveal, the following music update has been a song from that newcomer’s franchise. This has been true for multiple music updates in a row if more than one character was revealed at once. For example, after E3, the next two new songs we got were a Metroid song followed by a Splatoon song. Then, after the Direct, we got a Castlevania mashup followed by the Gangplank Galleon remix. When the Direct was delayed, the internal blog post numbers seemed to suggest that the song we got this Tuesday, (the Pikmin one,) was originally planned for next week, suggesting they may have bumped it forwards so that they could reveal the supposed new Animal Crossing remix next week to account for the delay.

The theory notes this, and uses to information to infer that since every franchise has only been represented once so far, any franchise that already has a song will not be getting a newcomer. That would mean, for example, Geno and Bandana Waddle Dee would be deconfirmed. Initially I thought this was just looking into things a little too much, but if the only non-newcomer we have left is a Pokémon character, which is another franchise lacking a remix at this time, I have to conclude that the theory was likely accurate all along.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Better yet, give Incineroar the wink animation but stop it midway so that you can have your pose/model.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Assuming the newcomer list really is small, let's take a look at this cup the "half-full" way.

This game has probably been in development for a while, and it has a large staff behind it. Those resources not being spent on characters had to go somewhere else. Maybe they were working hard to make this the most balanced game in Smash history (which would be really impressive considering the roster size). Maybe they were spent with overall polish of the game. Or maybe most of those resources were thrown into making Spirit mode something completely amazing (which is what I've been saying from the start - I'm convinced this game will have a great single player).

People treating it like it's already set in stone that we're getting 2 more characters despite the fact we have 3 months until release.

You're absolutely right, this isn't set in stone. It's totally possible that we have more then just two newcomers left.

However, I could easily imagine them not showing us any new characters through all of October, then showing the remaining two in one final smash direct in November. I don't really think having "three months left" really means much when they've skipped entire months before.

 

[Chandeelure]

Box is edited:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...s_to_include_every/?utm_source=reddit-android

Refer to the top comment in this Reddit post.

It's clearly a 3d modeled image that has been heavily edited. Let's stop using it as a basis for anything plz

The box is a photoshopped Little Mac.

 

[Chrono.]

Not gonna lie its kind of annoying that one of my more wanted characters (Incineroar) might just be Ultimate's hate siphon just because a couple people are getting pissy that he ain't Geno or end up as the ""unhype"" final reveal or whatever.

 

[Starbound]

Box is edited:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...s_to_include_every/?utm_source=reddit-android

Refer to the top comment in this Reddit post.

It's clearly a 3d modeled image that has been heavily edited. Let's stop using it as a basis for anything plz

But it's not a fake image. It's literally on the Amazon product page...

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Smash-...ros.+Ultimate+Special+Edition+Nintendo+Switch

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Incidentally, I think it's entirely possible that if the next Smash Direct gives us Incineroar and Ken as our "final two", they could wrap up the Direct with the announcement of our first DLC character.

Who knows who that would end up being. But I think that's absolutely a possibility.

Really, I don't know what to expect with DLC. It'll be all newcomers, and considering the amount of time that Mario Tennis Aces is going to be supported, imagine the amount of content Smash could get! It could be totally crazy!

That would be totally awesome. I might create a mockup of that as well.

 

[Paperchampion23]

The box is a photoshopped Little Mac.

I'm actually being serious though. Zoom in to the image on amazon, it's not a real box and is clearly pasted photos.

But it's not a fake image. It's literally on the Amazon product page...

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Smash-...ros.+Ultimate+Special+Edition+Nintendo+Switch

I never said it was fake....I said its edited. It's not a real box, it's a 3d mockup.

 

[Whia]

Box is edited:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...s_to_include_every/?utm_source=reddit-android

Refer to the top comment in this Reddit post.

It's clearly a 3d modeled image that has been heavily edited. Let's stop using it as a basis for anything plz

Well yeah, it was obviously edited. It's clearly not a real life photograph of the actual physical box.

But the portraits were still edited in an extremely particular, and consequently conspicuous, order.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Just saying. Website also would need 2 more to make a perfect 72. Since it always seems to divide at 3 on max. Unless someone can prove it goes higher than 3 in a row.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Not gonna lie its kind of annoying that one of my more wanted characters (Incineroar) might just be Ultimate's hate siphon just because a couple people are getting pissy that he ain't Geno or end up as the ""unhype"" final reveal or whatever.

Now you'll know what Dark Pit fans had to suffer through.

(And probably Wolf and Olimar fans, but I wasn't around for Brawl speculation).

 

[AndreaAC]

The box is a photoshopped Little Mac.

xD I don't know why the whole Photoshoped Little Mac gag still cracks me up!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I don't know guys. There are only 49 characters on this roster. I feel like Sakurai would want to go for an even 50.

 

[Nethermoosen]

People treating it like it's already set in stone that we're getting 2 more characters despite the fact we have 3 months until release.

Not I. But I won’t fight it without evidence.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I don't know guys. There are only 49 characters on this roster. I feel like Sakurai would want to go for an even 50.View attachment 164377

Counter argument.

Fixed. Point still stands. CSS was made for wii u in mind.
And perfect square worked until they added corrin for 3ds.

 

[UberMadman]

I know the PR speak of no DLC consideration until after the game is released is likely bull****, so I find it believable that some DLC characters are already decided (and maybe even already in development) and thus would find it possible that Vergeben's SE character is DLC, but until he says so himself or it gets revealed as such I'm more inclined towards it being a base character.

Still, you have to admit that if this is the case, then there is a possible scenario in which both Vergeben and the box are correct. This is my personal current thought process at the moment; if, say, Geno is in the works for DLC already, and Vergeben’s sources heard about Sakurai approaching Square to talk about it, then we have a scenario where box theory, Vergeben, and music theory all align perfectly. It makes too much sense to dismiss, as much as I personally hate to admit it. I would much rather have Vergeben’s 3 characters all be base roster, and I think that it’s still a very likely scenario, but at the end of the day, I’m sticking to the explanation that seems to resolve everything without any contradictions.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Well yeah, it was obviously edited. It's clearly not a real life photograph of the actual physical box.

But the portraits were still edited in an extremely particular, and consequently conspicuous, order.

And saying as such means the images could easily also be shrinked. It's fine that the image order is deliberate. Fine. But it's wrong to assume there are only 2 more characters. Nothing supports that. We also have no idea what's on the other faces of the rendered packaging

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't know guys. There are only 49 characters on this roster. I feel like Sakurai would want to go for an even 50.View attachment 164377

Yeah, that seems like a Sakurai thing to do. It's why all the confirmed newcomers are split evenly between heroes (Inkling, Chrom, Simon, Richter, Ken) and villains (Ridley, K.Rool, Dark Samus, Daisy, Isabelle).

He loves making his roster choices based on arbitrary quotas.

 

[Deleted member]

Daisy, Isabelle

My favorite villains.