Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

How about we not talk about chairs.

Let's talk about that blue book that's obviously Banjo Kazooie.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I legit want Shadow but what worries me is that he became a popular after the Echo reveal, what if the roster was finalized already by then unless it isn’t if Sakurai announces it?

Or could it be a Melee situation where he’s added at the last-minute?

Huh? Roster was decided a long time ago. Project plan was December 2015. Echoes are nowhere near as difficult to make. They don't decide upon new characters every month during development. Barring clones all characters are decided at the start, and even if Shadow for some reason was decided upon at the last second it's not like he'd be too difficult to implement.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I'm just going to jump on the "skull kid is in" boat because I highly expect him.

The moment I saw the moon as an assist trophy without SK just gave me a hunch imo

Somethin akin to how sure I was Belmont would get in after seeing the Bomberman assist trophy during E3.

 

[Noipoi]

Like a happy camper. Like I said earlier today, he's my favorite starter from Alola, even after the disappointment (yes, I wanted him to be a quadrupped too). And since I love cats, tigers and felines in general, and wrestling, as well as red and black/grey colour combination, he would be a very welcomed addition to me.
There's that thing too that some people think that Sakurai may put him just to replace Charizard as a standalone fire type pokemon.

We share the exact same opinion.
Are...
Are you me?

 

[PeridotGX]

10 more echoes? Okay. This isn't necesarrily who I expect, but more my insane wants.

: Boshi

: Blaziken

: Ninten

: Isabelle

: Midbus

: Octoling

: Susie Haltmann

Celica

Lycanroc: Zygarde

Maxwell: Lily

 

[Chrono.]

I legit want Shadow but what worries me is that he became a popular pick after the Echo reveal, what if the roster was finalized already by then unless it isn’t if Sakurai announces it?

Or could it be a Melee situation where he’s added at the last-minute?

It's Shadow.

Even if he didn't do highly in the ballot, he's still a really popular character on his own right and he's such an easy no-brainer echo that I imagine Sakurai going "just ****ing put him in brah" in his office while All Hail Shadow blasts from the speakers.

 

[Majora's Visage]

How about we not talk about chairs.

Fine by me. Was just pointing out how people refuse to look at the rope ladder, wood theme, and barrel objectively as a comparison.

 

[Will]

Shadow's always been decently popular for Smash from what I've seen. Not a big name but still wanted.
If he put in Daisy as an Echo, I don't think we need to worry about Shadow.
That also wouldn't explain why they removed his AT.

RIP every single Smash 4 assist trophy then.

We still haven't seen most of the veteran Assists, not just a select handpicked few, just the veteran Assists. We have 10 left, and unless Prince Sable and Devil are now playable, they're not "removed" until we see footage or the game comes out and we don't see them. They're just not shown. That's why some assists that were already shown aren't even labeled in the Assist Trophy section like Waluigi, just eluded to in the "and more!" section. You can take your tinfoil off, the reason is him being MIA, not "removed his AT".

 

[Luigi The President]

RIP every single Smash 4 assist trophy then.

We still haven't seen most of the veteran Assists, not just a select handpicked few, just the veteran Assists. We have 10 left, and unless Prince Sable and Devil are now playable, they're not "removed" until we see footage or the game comes out and we don't see them. They're just not shown. That's why some assists that were already shown aren't even labeled in the Assist Trophy section like Waluigi, just eluded to in the "and more!" section. You can take your tinfoil off, the reason is him being MIA, not "removed his AT".

Uh...alright...I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or just with my wording?

 

[StormC]

Shadow is probably in.

I look forward to all of the memes that follow his confirmation.

 

[Will]

Uh...alright...I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or just with my wording?

The wording isn't right. If you believe in Shadow for the AT, it's because he's just missing from footage, not because we somehow know he was removed from the status entirely. Because we don't and he could always end up back where he was last two games.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'm just going to jump on the "skull kid is in" boat because I highly expect him.

The moment I saw the moon as an assist trophy without SK just gave me a hunch imo

Somethin akin to how sure I was Belmont would get in after seeing the Bomberman assist trophy during E3.

You see when people ask me if I don't think Sakurai hints, I do just in ways like this and not furniture. But I will be estatic and happily swallow my pride if he's the next revealed newcomer.

Also on the topic of Geno....I feel Square being stingy/hard to work with is often brought up as a con against him and yet he's already been in Smash. As a costume sure but wouldn't that require the same kind of rights to use? I mean it's a likeness of the character, Sakurai even calling him Geno in that reveal trailer. At this point I think it's all up to Sakurai...which is why he's the most likely unique third party newcomer in my oppinion.

 

[Luigi The President]

The wording isn't right. If you believe in Shadow for the AT, it's because he's just missing from footage, not because we somehow know he was removed from the status entirely. Because we don't and he could always end up back where he was last two games.

Good point. Thanks.
I still believe he's in, but I could just be overhoping. Guess we'll have to see.

 

[T-Hell]

We share the exact same opinion.
Are...
Are you me?

I'm your echo

 

[Luigi The President]

You see when people ask me if I don't think Sakurai hints, I do just in ways like this and not furniture. But I will be estatic and happily swallow my pride if he's the next revealed newcomer.

Also on the topic of Geno....I feel Square being stingy/hard to work with is often brought up as a con against him and yet he's already been in Smash. As a costume sure but wouldn't that require the same kind of rights to use? I mean it's a likeness of the character, Sakurai even calling him Geno in that reveal trailer. At this point I think it's all up to Sakurai...which is why he's the most likely unique third party newcomer in my oppinion.

Square seems easier to work with than we expect.
I've learned the absence of music is due to the composer. Not SE. I could be wrong, though.

 

[BluePikmin11]

All this room analysis stuff just gives me Ridley shadow vibes.

I've been down this road before. I've never doubted that Skull Kid was a popular choices in certain Smash circles, but putting together vague hints just sends me back to that ****ing shadow. At least the Isaac "hint" is a little more suspiciously placed and specific.

The only thing that gives me pause is the inclusion of the Moon AT. That would be a very odd choice if Skull Kid is still an AT. There's a lot of overlap between the two, it'd be like if you had a Krimp AT as well as the Klaptrap one.

That said, I don't put a ton of stock into the Skull Kid AT being in 4 due to his popularity despite his irrelevance. Popularity had nothing to do with the inclusion of Nightmare and Mother Brain, who had been MIA for over a decade.

I somewhat agree with the room analysis, but the Moon Assist Trophy, the numerous other small things benefitting his inclusion put him and the numerous community fan-theories miles above the Ridley grasping in Smash 4. SK is in a unique situation to which even the most skeptical fans cannot call out to others for grasping in speculation as easily as 'Sceptile and grass types' 'Krystal would add another female character' being factors that make them likely, as what people theorize about Skull Kid's missing appearance could be a strong in-direct hint to his playability, noting Chrom and Dark Samus as examples.

 

[Chrono.]

Shadow is probably in.

I look forward to all of the memes that follow his confirmation.

Already way ahead of you.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Already way ahead of you.

Don't think you can get away with that scat comic pic.

 

[Will]

Already way ahead of you.

***** I know you aren't gonna actually post that Tails pic

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Already way ahead of you.

Hey, why not get both?

As long as we get Miles, I'll be happy to see the Edgehog too.

EDIT: in re the two comments above me...

 

[StormC]

Already way ahead of you.

Tails folder gonna collect dust.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Technically, we still don't know if custom specials are truly dead. Similarly, we have no information on the Mii Outfits and Mii Headgear yet.

Mii costumes seem guaranteed to return since customized Mii have been apart of their lifetime for a good amount of time

Not counting Hyrule Warriors, Ganondorf hasn't appeared in physical form since Twilight Princess. It's surprising how long he's been absent from the main series.

12 or so years isn’t that much of a hiatus (as look at their “25” years of a break, and in general...poor him)

 

[Collective of Bears]

Shadow is probably in.

I look forward to all of the memes that follow his confirmation.

Fighting Sonic is bad enough, I don't want two of them

 

[Luigi The President]

Mii costumes seem guaranteed to return since customized Mii have been apart of their lifetime for a good amount of time

12 or so years isn’t that much of a hiatus (as look at their “25” years of a break, and in general...poor him)

I get you're likely joking but...uh, yeah, yeah it totally is. No use comparing hiatuses.

 

[Will]

Fighting Sonic is bad enough, I don't want two of them

I feel like Shadow is gonna be played a lot more than Sonic.
just a hunch
just a feel
just an assumption of the average sonic player

 

[Chrono.]

Tails folder gonna collect dust.

I know but let me dream bro.

***** I know you aren't gonna actually post that Tails pic

Don't think you can get away with that scat comic pic.

Y'all need to chill I just picked the second pic when I googled "Tails memes."

 

[Noipoi]

Already way ahead of you.

I hope Tails doesn't get in just so you can't post that comic.
THAT COMIC IS EVIL.
Nah, jk Tails is cool.

 

[SebasSancy]

I really like Skull Kid's desing but I would prefer Impa as the zelda newcomer, because she's one of the important recurring characters in the zelda franchise. Anyway, I get that Skull Kid and MM are popular among Zelda fans, so I hope Impa gets in as an echo

 

[MojoRobo]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

 

[Nazyrus]

I'm definitely going for Skull kid for newcomer, Impa for echo. MM and SS reps of the Zelda series.

Then that would mean we have zelda reps from: OoT (Ganondorf and half Y. Link imo)
• MM (Skull kid and half Y. Link imo again, maybe Y Link is a special case of being a rep for both N64 games)
• SS (Impa and also because she is one of the most popular zelda characters in all the series, which is why i doubt ghirahim would be the SS rep)
• BotW (Link)
• ALBW / ALTTP (Zelda)
• WW (Toon Link)

So far I think these are the Zelda ATs already confirmed…
• Midna (TP)
• Ghirahim (SS)
• Moon (MM)

I could see some people saying we could get a TP rep, but I just don't know who. Zant to me feels like AT material more than playable material, being that he only teleports himself and you to different dimensions and he swings his swords like a dummie… if Ghirahim didn't make it as playable, I don't see Zant having any better chances (plus Zant feels more limited in what he can do, compared to Ghirahim).
Maybe Vaati is a wild card of surprise, I could see his toon version from minish cap being his model , and his FS would be his final form from the same game. So, outside Skull kid and Impa, I could see Vaati being the other possible BIG zelda character from a different game in the series…IF, again a big "if", Sakurai is really gonna stay with having one rep per different game in the Zelda series.

The thing with Skull Kid is that hes popular. Not necessarily smash community popular, not necessarily ballot popular either, he is just popular. Go into any store and look at the zelda merchandise and i guarantee there is majoras mask stuff on the t-shirts, wallets, pins, hats etc... that mask is iconic to zelda just like the triforce and master sword.

The thing with skull kid "suddenly" becoming a likely character isn't so much people don't want him as it is circumstances in the past made him seem less likely. sakurai adding any "non-triforce holder" zelda character has over the years seemed unlikely as he's skipped adding midna/ghirahim/impa/tingle etc.. in the past and in the smash community guessing at those characters became more and more "unlikely" feeling based on sakurai adding multiple links and multiple zeldas instead (even toon zelda ALMOST happened in brawl).

In smash 4 his assist trophy was revealed early on so no one guessed at him much, there simply wasnt time to build up a sizeable fan base during that speculation season. For the ballot he was already an assist trophy so people looked over characters like him or Ridley and assumed they might be "out of the running" and decided not to vote for them, as it might be throwing the vote away. most seemed to believe the ballot was for smash4 DLC and the side note about "future smash games" I dont think swayed many people to vote for those "deconfirmed" characters much. of course we GOT ridley so sakurai is aware of non-ballot based popularity, and thats really where i think skull kid shines and makes sense, as i said before he's a very popular and well known nintendo icon for the zelda series at this point, regardless of ballot votes.

Because of this history (non-triforce holders seeming unlikely zelda choices over the years, skull kid being deconfirmed early on as an assist trophy for smash4, likely not getting a lot of ballot votes due to those first two issues) Skull Kid hasn't been talked about much in the lead up to Ultimate. Then we got the newest direct and with the moon becoming an assist trophy without skull kid (who could easily be part of that, calling the moon down) and loz18 "leaking" skull kid (however you feel about loz18 he did have correct E3 info and it was mostly zelda based info specifically) now skull kid seems very likely. theres also some wild tinfoil hat theory stuff out there stuff like the sakurai office backgrounds etc... but i think people really do want skull kid (i know i think hes cool) and i think he's a popular character for the general nintendo fan base. He only got looked over so much in the smash community due to a series of circumstances and not because the smash fanbase doesnt desire the character be added to the roster, now that he seems possible and likely the fan support is simply being highlighted in a way it never had a chance to be before.

Seriously, thank you for that much needed comment.

Don't forget Operation Moonfall, Majoras Mask 3DS release in 2015, right around the same time they were planning Ultimate, and this is probably minor but notable, Nintendo UK's random Skull Kid instagram post.

Oh damn thanks, I almost forgot about those points. There's definitely more going on than meets the eye, whether it's relevant or not to Skull kid's case, it's definitely relevant to his game having marketing recently, compared to the past where he had none for yeeears.

View attachment 160375

They are comparable because both are similarly grasping at straws.

lol, not really, not at all. Considering the clouds didn't get anything to the very end. Yet the room thing actually could be very probable since its theme the first time matched DK, and then we got King K rool. Untill the next reveal gets confirmed, we can't just discard the possibility and call it grasping straw. If it turns to be nothing the second time in a row, feel free to discard it, but not before it actually gets deconfirmed, because that's simply being in denial of the possibility at the moment, even if there's good reason to not believe it, which I totally understand.

 

[StormC]

Why do you guys know so much about Sonic scat comics.

 

[T-Hell]

Apart from popularity, the main reason why we think Shadow could get in as an echo is because Knuckles is a new AT while Shadow is yet to be seen, plus the fact that third party echoes are now a thing. Isabelle follows the same formula, minus the third party point. Of course they could still be ATs, but it's undeniable that the points are in their favor this time.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I ain't got a reason to say thanks yet if it's just literally nobody I care for.

Problem is, the guy would need at least one major Mario game appearance to justify his inclusion, let alone making a unique moveset for him. There isn't anyone to make him as an Echo from, either.

 

[MojoRobo]

Why do you guys know so much about Sonic scat comics.

I can't speak for everybody but my two year long 4chan phase as a teenager definitely introduced to me to cursed content like that.

 

[Luigi The President]

Problem is, the guy would need at least one major Mario game appearance to justify his inclusion, let alone making a unique moveset for him. There isn't anyone to make him as an Echo from, either.

Honestly I don't think this rule still stands.
Daisy broke it, Echo or not. Don't know why people are clinging onto it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why do you guys know so much about Sonic scat comics.

Oh God THAT’S what the Tails thumbnail is from?!

...wait. It’s the Sonic fandom, of course this kinda stuff is to be expected

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

I second the Shulk buffs

 

[Opossum]

Problem is, the guy would need at least one major Mario game appearance to justify his inclusion

According to...?

 

[Noipoi]

Why do you guys know so much about Sonic scat comics.

2 years ago, you hear some Pokemon Sun and Moon leaks are on 4chan.
You go there once, just to check it out.
You never come back the same.

 

[Idon]

Why do you guys know so much about Sonic scat comics.

It's like catching a disease.
One person catches it and spreads it to 2 more people.
Those people spread it to 4. So on and on so forth, until everyone knows about this garbage.

For example:
I It
II I_

 

[StormC]

Honestly I don't think this rule still stands.
Daisy broke it, Echo or not. Don't know why people are clinging onto it.

I mean, Dr. Mario wouldn't be in the game on his own merits either.

Echoes are popular characters + easy to make. Those seem to be the only fulfillments.