Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

Skull Kid is the second most likely newcomer behind Geno. And no the Skull Kid evidence and the Ridley shadow aren't comparable.

They are comparable because both are similarly grasping at straws.

 

[Iridium]

Credit to u/thegabegrumps on Reddit, we can't be putting a lock on what Ultimate will for sure be (or just people in the comments section on YouTube videos, LOL).

Here's early gameplay of SSB4, in 2014:

 

[UserKev]

I'm not sure if this was what you were referring to, but I'm shocked it's not brought up enough the fact that Skull Kid isn't with the Moon in the AT. I mean sure Skull Kid's AT hasn't show yet but neithered did Ashley for a while and we saw what that meant.

On the other hand the Moon Assist trophy makes sense to have Skull Kid appear and summon the moon. But that doesn't happen, instead it's just the Moon. Idk feels weird to me. Unless he is an AT and Sakurai wanted to keep them seperate, I don't know why. It's not like Skull Kids AT was a unique effect.

What really makes you believe Skull Kid is likely a newcomer, we seen how Ashley was cruelly de-confirmed. Why would Sakurai pull this again with another highly requested character for the ages? Skull Kid should have already been de-confirmed if it has to be all this.

 

[StormC]

The thing with Skull Kid is that hes popular. Not necessarily smash community popular, not necessarily ballot popular either, he is just popular. Go into any store and look at the zelda merchandise and i guarantee there is majoras mask stuff on the t-shirts, wallets, pins, hats etc... that mask is iconic to zelda just like the triforce and master sword.

The thing with skull kid "suddenly" becoming a likely character isn't so much people don't want him as it is circumstances in the past made him seem less likely. sakurai adding any "non-triforce holder" zelda character has over the years seemed unlikely as he's skipped adding midna/ghirahim/impa/tingle etc.. in the past and in the smash community guessing at those characters became more and more "unlikely" feeling based on sakurai adding multiple links and multiple zeldas instead (even toon zelda ALMOST happened in brawl).

In smash 4 his assist trophy was revealed early on so no one guessed at him much, there simply wasnt time to build up a sizeable fan base during that speculation season. For the ballot he was already an assist trophy so people looked over characters like him or Ridley and assumed they might be "out of the running" and decided not to vote for them, as it might be throwing the vote away. most seemed to believe the ballot was for smash4 DLC and the side note about "future smash games" I dont think swayed many people to vote for those "deconfirmed" characters much. of course we GOT ridley so sakurai is aware of non-ballot based popularity, and thats really where i think skull kid shines and makes sense, as i said before he's a very popular and well known nintendo icon for the zelda series at this point, regardless of ballot votes.

Because of this history (non-triforce holders seeming unlikely zelda choices over the years, skull kid being deconfirmed early on as an assist trophy for smash4, likely not getting a lot of ballot votes due to those first two issues) Skull Kid hasn't been talked about much in the lead up to Ultimate. Then we got the newest direct and with the moon becoming an assist trophy without skull kid (who could easily be part of that, calling the moon down) and loz18 "leaking" skull kid (however you feel about loz18 he did have correct E3 info and it was mostly zelda based info specifically) now skull kid seems very likely. theres also some wild tinfoil hat theory stuff out there stuff like the sakurai office backgrounds etc... but i think people really do want skull kid (i know i think hes cool) and i think he's a popular character for the general nintendo fan base. He only got looked over so much in the smash community due to a series of circumstances and not because the smash fanbase doesnt desire the character be added to the roster, now that he seems possible and likely the fan support is simply being highlighted in a way it never had a chance to be before.

This is a really interesting and well-thought out post. I admit I might have been a bit hasty in the labeling of recent Skull Kid support as bandwagoning, though I sorta wonder how much of his recent popularity ("recent" being in the last ~10 years) has to do with how Majora's Mask has been revisited.

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game and in my top ten favorite games in general, but I, along with many people, generally found it to be a weird and semi-eclipsed spin-off of Ocarina Of Time when it was first released. It wasn't until almost a decade later I replayed it and I realized how magnificent it is. I think a lot of people felt the same way, because the way Majora's Mask is talked about now as an iconic, beloved game was definitely not how the game was thought of in the early 2000s. It was not hated or disliked, but I think it was too weird and out there after the more conventional Ocarina Of Time, and was generally forgotten about by the time Wind Waker came out. That's changed a lot since then. Hell, Majora's Mask won a poll on GameFAQs for the best game of the 2000s. It's rare to see a reversal of public opinion that's so drastic, to the point where MM almost seems more beloved than OOT these days.

Anyway, if Skull Kid gets in, I'll be happy for his long time supporters and I'm sure he'd be fun to play as. I just have my reservations on his likeliness.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The thing with Skull Kid is that hes popular. Not necessarily smash community popular, not necessarily ballot popular either, he is just popular. Go into any store and look at the zelda merchandise and i guarantee there is majoras mask stuff on the t-shirts, wallets, pins, hats etc... that mask is iconic to zelda just like the triforce and master sword.

The thing with skull kid "suddenly" becoming a likely character isn't so much people don't want him as it is circumstances in the past made him seem less likely. sakurai adding any "non-triforce holder" zelda character has over the years seemed unlikely as he's skipped adding midna/ghirahim/impa/tingle etc.. in the past and in the smash community guessing at those characters became more and more "unlikely" feeling based on sakurai adding multiple links and multiple zeldas instead (even toon zelda ALMOST happened in brawl).

In smash 4 his assist trophy was revealed early on so no one guessed at him much, there simply wasnt time to build up a sizeable fan base during that speculation season. For the ballot he was already an assist trophy so people looked over characters like him or Ridley and assumed they might be "out of the running" and decided not to vote for them, as it might be throwing the vote away. most seemed to believe the ballot was for smash4 DLC and the side note about "future smash games" I dont think swayed many people to vote for those "deconfirmed" characters much. of course we GOT ridley so sakurai is aware of non-ballot based popularity, and thats really where i think skull kid shines and makes sense, as i said before he's a very popular and well known nintendo icon for the zelda series at this point, regardless of ballot votes.

Because of this history (non-triforce holders seeming unlikely zelda choices over the years, skull kid being deconfirmed early on as an assist trophy for smash4, likely not getting a lot of ballot votes due to those first two issues) Skull Kid hasn't been talked about much in the lead up to Ultimate. Then we got the newest direct and with the moon becoming an assist trophy without skull kid (who could easily be part of that, calling the moon down) and loz18 "leaking" skull kid (however you feel about loz18 he did have correct E3 info and it was mostly zelda based info specifically) now skull kid seems very likely. theres also some wild tinfoil hat theory stuff out there stuff like the sakurai office backgrounds etc... but i think people really do want skull kid (i know i think hes cool) and i think he's a popular character for the general nintendo fan base. He only got looked over so much in the smash community due to a series of circumstances and not because the smash fanbase doesnt desire the character be added to the roster, now that he seems possible and likely the fan support is simply being highlighted in a way it never had a chance to be before.

I work with a guy who always wears a cap with Majora's Mask and Skull Kid on it. Didn't speak to him about Zelda yet, and which Impa design he thinks is superiour and should be included in Smash, but still...

He's indeed very popular and Majora's Mask being brought to the 3DS is a testimony to this. I recall it being a fan project that made this happen. Similar to K.Rool getting in Smash and similar to how Xenoblade fans tried to push their favorite game to be sold in retail more often. Also getting Shulk to be a more noticable prospect for Smash 4, which eventually also happened.

I would say that yes, Skull Kid has good chances. Like Donkey Kong, the last Zdlda newcomer was in Brawl. Zelda is TOO HUGE to deny a newcomer at this point. And even I, as a Impa fan, gotta admit that Skull Kid being in would satisfy more people than having Impa join alone.

Now let's debate Isaac. Cause we Golden Sun fans have also been supporting him as long as the pre Brawl days.

 

[Will]

- Mach Rider

This is probably illegal.

 

[staindgrey]

Don't forget Operation Moonfall, Majoras Mask 3DS release in 2015, right around the same time they were planning Ultimate, and this is probably minor but notable, Nintendo UK's random Skull Kid instagram post.

The timing of the 3DS Majora's Mask remake is noteworthy.

The Instagram post is not. The people working Nintendo's Instagram when not directly advertising anything are just working from algorithms and info dumps about what people are talking about. They likely know just as much about the final roster as you or I do until the higher-ups say it's time to post Smash news.

 

[Luigi The President]

Skull Kid is the second most likely newcomer behind Geno. And no the Skull Kid evidence and the Ridley shadow aren't comparable.

Uhm.
What.

Bandana Dee? Paper Mario? Isaac? And I'm hoping you don't count Echoes.

Yeah, he's likely, but I wouldn't place him at second.

 

[Chrono.]

I would bet money on the most likely newcomer at all being Shadow the ****ing Hedgehog.

That sentence alone is ridiculous when said out loud.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Actually, this is really silly to say but, we're running out of 'new' stuff from the Direct to be shown off on the blog, huh?


Disregarding old stages for the moment:


We've had every new stage shown off today with New Donk City.

All 5 of the newcomers got their reveal that week or the week after the Direct.

Assist Trophies and Pokemon are being rolled out steadily, with Rathalos getting the spotlight the other day.


It feels like we'll be back in drought mode soon, which is something I don't like saying after how good the Direct was, but it seems like a couple more weeks of old info are coming until the next Direct, whenever that is,

We still got some assist trophies to go through. Nikki, The Moon, Shovel Knight, Chef Kowasaki, Zero, and Kapp'n

Also they can continue to do posts on old stages, no reason not to. That coupled with 3 character posts a week....they could go on for months if the needed to.

When you think of it the blog is really dissapointing aside from weekly music (ironically something we never got in the Smash 4 posts). Thankfully we are getting a couple Smash specific Directs and hopefully we get 2 more before release (although I'm only really expecting one more in November).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This is probably illegal.

Why should it?

This wouldn't be the first time we got a cross-series clone.

 

[Aurane]

Makes me cringe every time I see this

What? Why?

 

[Luigi The President]

Why should it?

This wouldn't be the first time we got a cross-series clone.

"Clone"
Not "Echo"

HUGELY important difference no matter how minor

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

View attachment 160375

They are comparable because both are similarly grasping at straws.

At least the theory's not relying on gameplay screenshots this time.

 

[Majora's Visage]

The thing with Skull Kid is that hes popular. Not necessarily smash community popular, not necessarily ballot popular either, he is just popular. Go into any store and look at the zelda merchandise and i guarantee there is majoras mask stuff on the t-shirts, wallets, pins, hats etc... that mask is iconic to zelda just like the triforce and master sword.

The thing with skull kid "suddenly" becoming a likely character isn't so much people don't want him as it is circumstances in the past made him seem less likely. sakurai adding any "non-triforce holder" zelda character has over the years seemed unlikely as he's skipped adding midna/ghirahim/impa/tingle etc.. in the past and in the smash community guessing at those characters became more and more "unlikely" feeling based on sakurai adding multiple links and multiple zeldas instead (even toon zelda ALMOST happened in brawl).

In smash 4 his assist trophy was revealed early on so no one guessed at him much, there simply wasnt time to build up a sizeable fan base during that speculation season. For the ballot he was already an assist trophy so people looked over characters like him or Ridley and assumed they might be "out of the running" and decided not to vote for them, as it might be throwing the vote away. most seemed to believe the ballot was for smash4 DLC and the side note about "future smash games" I dont think swayed many people to vote for those "deconfirmed" characters much. of course we GOT ridley so sakurai is aware of non-ballot based popularity, and thats really where i think skull kid shines and makes sense, as i said before he's a very popular and well known nintendo icon for the zelda series at this point, regardless of ballot votes.

Because of this history (non-triforce holders seeming unlikely zelda choices over the years, skull kid being deconfirmed early on as an assist trophy for smash4, likely not getting a lot of ballot votes due to those first two issues) Skull Kid hasn't been talked about much in the lead up to Ultimate. Then we got the newest direct and with the moon becoming an assist trophy without skull kid (who could easily be part of that, calling the moon down) and loz18 "leaking" skull kid (however you feel about loz18 he did have correct E3 info and it was mostly zelda based info specifically) now skull kid seems very likely. theres also some wild tinfoil hat theory stuff out there stuff like the sakurai office backgrounds etc... but i think people really do want skull kid (i know i think hes cool) and i think he's a popular character for the general nintendo fan base. He only got looked over so much in the smash community due to a series of circumstances and not because the smash fanbase doesnt desire the character be added to the roster, now that he seems possible and likely the fan support is simply being highlighted in a way it never had a chance to be before.

Thank you for a well written post. I'd give you a hug, but I think I'll subscribe to your channel and hopefully that will pay the tab for this incredible post.

 

[Will]

Why should it?

This wouldn't be the first time we got a cross-series clone.

wouldn't be in the same scenario as somebody else. Ganondorf's clone from the tech demo straight-up was able to match with Falcon's model quickly and since was getting popular, thrown in the blender. This would be creating an entirely new model for a Falcon clone for the sake of being a Falcon clone just cause. Not against cross-series, but Mach and Falcon don't come to mind to me as Falcon clone yet.

also other f-zero characters

 

[Idon]

Honestly, I think Sakurai's done with clones and semi-clones with this introduction of echoes.
The last kind of characters we've gotten of that breed was in Brawl, a decade ago.

 

[Shroob]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

 

[Noipoi]

We live in an era where Geno and Shadow are two of the most likely characters for a Smash game, some people even consider them locks.

Think about that for a second.



And when you're done thinking, remember to thank Sakurai.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

What really makes you believe Skull Kid is likely a newcomer, we seen how Ashley was cruelly de-confirmed. Why would Sakurai pull this again with another highly requested character for the ages? Skull Kid should have already been de-confirmed if it has to be all this.

I'm not sure I understand, are you saying I should think he's likely or shouldn't???

My post was pointing out that Skull Kid & The Moon would make a logical assist trophy together, as Skull Kid is the character that summons the moon. However he is missing from the Moon's AT. Could be just because Sakurai wanted him to stay his own AT, but I don't know why since he didn't do anything unique.

Personally I think it's a speculation point in his favor that he is not part of the Moon AT.

We live in an era where Geno and Shadow are two of the most likely characters for a Smash game, some people even consider them locks.

Think about that for a second.



And when you're done thinking, remember to thank Sakurai.

Never wanted Geno, and I hate the idea of 3rd party echoes, or 3rd party series getting more than 1 character.

I will however thank Sakurai for Ridley and at this point he can add the entire Sonic cast and it would still be Smash Ultimate.

 

[Noipoi]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

HYPE
HYPE
MAXIMUM HYPE


I know he's unpopular but I don't care! I love Incineroar and I really hope he gets in!
And if anyone still has a problem after his reveal? well, that's one more person to add to my suplex list.

 

[PeridotGX]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

"Ugh, this thing? At least it's not Gen 1"

 

[papagenos]

Thank you for a well written post. I'd give you a hug, but I think I'll subscribe to your channel and hopefully that will pay the tab for this incredible post.

haha thanks! I'll probly make a purely skull kid themed video soon anyway so this has been on my mind.

 

[StormC]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

Incineroar would be a lot of fun in Smash and I'm more or less expecting him at this point, so I'd be pretty pleased.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

Probably best case scenario if we're getting a Gen 7 mon. The other 2 potential options don't do it for me and I think Incineroar fits the best in Smash.

 

[staindgrey]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

The hell is that thing? I didn't know they were doing a crossover with Skylanders.

 

[Will]

And when you're done thinking, remember to thank Sakurai.

I ain't got a reason to say thanks yet if it's just literally nobody I care for.

Probably best case scenario if we're getting a Gen 7 mon. The other 2 potential options don't do it for me and I think Incineroar fits the best in Smash.

dang whats wrong with buzzwole

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Uh, 10 more echoes!
Slippy
Black Shadow
Ninten
Impa
Dixie
Isabelle
Octoling
Shadow
Raiden
Ken

 

[Chrono.]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

Pretty excited as he's my top Pokemon pick.

Though I still have a sinking feeling we're not getting Pokemon newcomers.

 

[Majora's Visage]

View attachment 160375

They are comparable because both are similarly grasping at straws.

I mean.. the rope ladder and barrel and wood themed room in E3 and then in August we got King K. Rool. Not saying its concrete, but I don't think we can dismiss it entirely. Basically it's the lowest of lowest "evidence"

 

[PlugMeister]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

Whatever.

 

[Deoxys911]

With all this talk of how popular Skull Kid was at various points I'm surprised no one has mentioned RogersBase's Smash Poll 2012, which had hundreds of thousands of people vote on which characters they'd like to see as playable in the upcoming title, ultimately seeing Skull Kid emerge victoriously over Mega Man. The announcement of the results was then translated into Japanese and shared with Sakurai many times on Twitter.

It's worth noting that this campaign took place less than four months after the project plan was completed for the Wii U and 3DS games. As such, it is my personal belief that this campaign played a significant role (albeit not the entire reason, mind you) in his decision to not only make a Skull Kid AT, but to be sure to show it off early in the pre-release cycle to please Skull Kid's American and European fans.

 

[Honest Slug]

Honestly, I think Sakurai's done with clones and semi-clones with this introduction of echoes.
The last kind of characters we've gotten of that breed was in Brawl, a decade ago.

Chrom is basically a semi-clone in all but name.

 

[Dee Dude]

I legit want Shadow but what worries me is that he became a popular pick after the Echo reveal, what if the roster was finalized already by then unless it isn’t if Sakurai announces it?

Or could it be a Melee situation where he’s added at the last-minute?

 

[Luigi The President]

With all this talk of how popular Skull Kid was at various points I'm surprised no one has mentioned RogersBase's Smash Poll 2012, which had hundreds of thousands of people vote on which characters they'd like to see as playable in the upcoming title, ultimately seeing Skull Kid emerge victoriously over Mega Man. The announcement of the results was then translated into Japanese and shared with Sakurai many times on Twitter.

It's worth noting that this campaign took place less than four months after the project plan was completed for the Wii U and 3DS games. As such, it is my personal belief that this campaign played a significant role (albeit not the entire reason, mind you) in his decision to not only make a Skull Kid AT, but to be sure to show it off early in the pre-release cycle to please Skull Kid's American and European fans.

Pretty sure we've gone over this and it was rigged?

 

[DarkFalcon]

I mean.. the rope ladder and barrel and wood themed room in E3 and then in August we got King K. Rool. Not saying its concrete, but I don't think we can dismiss it entirely. Basically it's the lowest of lowest "evidence"

How about we not talk about chairs.

 

[Chrono.]

Uh, 10 more echoes!
Slippy
Black Shadow
Ninten
Impa
Dixie
Isabelle
Octoling
Shadow
Raiden
Ken

>Raiden

 

[UserKev]

I'm not sure I understand, are you saying I should think he's likely or shouldn't???

My post was pointing out that Skull Kid & The Moon would make a logical assist trophy together, as Skull Kid is the character that summons the moon. However he is missing from the Moon's AT. Could be just because Sakurai wanted him to stay his own AT, but I don't know why since he didn't do anything unique.

Personally I think it's a speculation point in his favor that he is not part of the Moon AT.

For anyone who doesn't consider Skull Kid likely. There are many realistic reasons to believe his inclusion.

 

[Luigi The President]

I legit want Shadow but what worries me is that he became a popular after the Echo reveal, what if the roster was finalized already unless it isn’t if Sakurai announces it?

Shadow's always been decently popular for Smash from what I've seen. Not a big name but still wanted.
If he put in Daisy as an Echo, I don't think we need to worry about Shadow.
That also wouldn't explain why they removed his AT.

 

[T-Hell]

Alright.

Incineroar gets revealed as the next newcomer in a September Direct after they discuss LGP/E, how do you react?

Like a happy camper. Like I said earlier today, he's my favorite starter from Alola, even after the disappointment (yes, I wanted him to be a quadrupped too). And since I love cats, tigers and felines in general, and wrestling, as well as red and black/grey colour combination, he would be a very welcomed addition to me.
There's that thing too that some people think that Sakurai may put him just to replace Charizard as a standalone fire type pokemon.