Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

I get you're likely joking but...uh, yeah, yeah it totally is. No use comparing hiatuses.

y u no let mii fully freely speak foolishly (but on a serious note, Ganondorf does have it easier compared to most Nintendo characters)

 

[Will]

Problem is, the guy would need at least one major Mario game appearance to justify his inclusion, let alone making a unique moveset for him. There isn't anyone to make him as an Echo from, either.

That wasn't really my point, but I'll bite. I hate that argument when pitted against Daisy. How many seconds did we see her in Super Mario Land? Let's time it.

20 seconds of on-screen appearance. 20 seconds. That's enough to justify a character? You're ****ting me. He's not in because of some arbitrary Mario rules for Smash that someone made up and isn't even confirmed to be true, he's pretty much the spinoff character of all spinoffs. Expecting Waluigi to get seen in a mainline game outside of costume appearances like in TTYD and Odyssey is hoping way too much. Nobody ever said "Waluigi could've been a clone!" either, at least none from casual fans of him that I see. Diehard Waluigi fan isn't exactly me, I just really like the character. I made the post to say that if he was in, I'd say thank you and kiss his feet. Anyone else? "Meh, guess that's neat." I mean, Black Shadow is cool too but I don't like him that much.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Honestly I don't think this rule still stands.
Daisy broke it, Echo or not. Don't know why people are clinging onto it.

Super Mario Run is considered a main entry, and Daisy was in that. It's weird, I know.

Granted, the actual reason must most likely be due to the merging of SPD1 and EAD, so people are actually allowed to use Super Mario Land-related stuff more often now.

 

[Luigi The President]

Super Mario Run is considered a main entry, and Daisy was in that. It's weird, I know.

Granted, it's most likely also due to the merging of SPD1 and EAD, so people are actually allowed to use Super Mario Land-related stuff more often now.

Sakurai would not have considered this as Mario Run came out probably over a year since the roster was decided in 2015.

 

[T-Hell]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

I just wish Duck Hunt's specials were.. more powerful or versatile I guess. He is just a pain to dominate and I end up relying on his other regular attacks most of the times.

 

[StormC]

Sakurai would not have considered this as Mario Run came out probably over a year since the roster was decided in 2015.

Well, he might have considered it since echoes don't have to be in the project plan.

I don't think echoes are held to the same "they gotta MATTER" standards of unique newcomers. That said, enough Waluigi requests would probably get him into Smash 6 like it did Ridley... assuming Sakurai is still directing.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Daisy was also in the Super Mario Bros movie

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai would not have considered this as Mario Run came out probably over a year since the roster was decided in 2015.

Must have been a happy coincidence, given how easy it is to make Echoes.

That aside, does anyone think we might get any more SML remixes?

 

[Luigi The President]

Daisy was also in the Super Mario Bros movie

Yes, my favorite game.

Well, he might have considered it since echoes don't have to be in th project plan.

I don't think echoes are held to the same "they gotta MATTER" standards of unique newcomers. That said, enough Waluigi requests would probably get him into Smash 6 like it did Ridley... assuming Sakurai is still directing.

He said this about clones back in Smash 4. (not in the project plan)
He's never said it about Echoes.

I think we are making up rules. But that's just me.

Must have been a happy coincidence, given how easy it is to make Echoes.

That aside, does anyone think we might get any more SML remixes?

Point is, he doesn't have to be in a mainline Mario title. That rule is gone.

 

[Will]

Well, he might have considered it since echoes don't have to be in th project plan.

I don't think echoes are held to the same "they gotta MATTER" standards of unique newcomers. That said, enough Waluigi requests would probably get him into Smash 6 like it did Ridley... assuming Sakurai is still directing.

He said he'd still do it as long as the demand is there. I doubt Waluigi would make it in still, Sakurai made his opinion on him clear in 2014.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

i want zelda to be good. give her actual approach options.

Make robin faster. especially arcfire.

Lucinas pretty good where she is right now so no real buffs needed. let jab to fsmash be a kill confirm though please

also just....fix jigglypuff. help her.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yes, my favorite game.


He said this about clones back in Smash 4. (not in the project plan)
He's never said it about Echoes.

I think we are making up rules. But that's just me.

Because Pokemon in Smash never takes anything from the Pokemon movies

 

[Idon]

Honestly, I do really think Mario is overdue for a representative of the side-games which are just as-if not more iconic than the Mario games themselves.
Hell, I'd happily have taken someone like that over Bowser Jr.

Now that Daisy's just another clone and Waluigi's just another assist trophy, I'm going to presume that the most we're getting out of Mario spinoffs is going to be Peach's Tennis Racket and obligatory Mario Kart stages.

 

[Deleted member]

Love this thread taking fan rules seriously. I'm just waiting for the moment where Shadow, Tails and Silver get announced and we all implode.

Also, fyi, to those talking about "main series Mario games" or whatever, Geno has never appeared in a main series Mario.

 

[Luigi The President]

Because Pokemon in Smash never takes anything from the Pokemon movies

I'm not quite following as to how it's relevant for Daisy being in Smash?

Honestly, I do really think Mario is overdue for a representative of the side-games which are just as-if not more iconic than the Mario games themselves.
Hell, I'd happily have taken someone like that over Bowser Jr.

Now that Daisy's just another clone and Waluigi's just another assist trophy, I'm going to presume that the most we're getting out of Mario spinoffs is going to be Peach's Tennis Racket and obligatory Mario Kart stages.

Please kill me

Love this thread taking fan rules seriously. I'm just waiting for the moment where Shadow, Tails and Silver get announced and we all implode.

Also, fyi, to those talking about "main series Mario games" or whatever, Geno has never appeared in a main series Mario.

GOD DAMN

 

[SebasSancy]

It looks like Sakurai adds only characters from the main titles of the series. I think that's why Daisy gets in and not Waluigi, because she's in 2 main Mario titles (Super Mario Land and Super Mario Run) and Waluigi was been only on spin-off of the Super Mario franchise.

Wario and Yoshi are protagonist of their own saga (and Waluigi doen't appear on WarioWare either). Every other characters appears in the main title of their saga, the exception is ROB for obvious reasons.



Btw, I do believe that Waluigi has a chance to get in because he's popular, but only for fan demand.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I dunno, every argument for Skull Kid's popularity talks about the popularity of Majora's Mask--the two aren't interchangeable, and it seems like a bait and switch. I'm not denying Skull Kid's popularity--popular enough, Sakurai had to put a disclaimer that he was an assist, not a playable character, and given the Moon assist, it's on my predictions. But a character should get in on their own merits, not simply being a character from a popular game, and I've yet to hear someone articulate why the character should get in, rather than Majora's Mask simply being represented (which if that were the case, Young Link could have simply had his design primarily based on Majora's Mask instead). At least it's more constructive than analyzing pillows, but it would be nice to understand the impetus behind Skull Kid's popularity.

 

[StormC]

He said he'd still do it as long as the demand is there. I doubt Waluigi would make it in still, Sakurai made his opinion on him clear in 2014.

His opinion on Ridley was also clear in 2014.

 

[AlphaSSB]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

- No buffs really needed, just undo his nerfs dealt in Ultimate.
- Just needs to be sped up overall. Speed up his movement, improve his start-up and end-lag on several moves, etc.

 

[Will]

Honestly, I do really think Mario is overdue for a representative of the side-games which are just as-if not more iconic than the Mario games themselves.
Hell, I'd happily have taken someone like that over Bowser Jr.

Now that Daisy's just another clone and Waluigi's just another assist trophy, I'm going to presume that the most we're getting out of Mario spinoffs is going to be Peach's Tennis Racket and obligatory Mario Kart stages.

I mean, Paper Mario is technically a spinoff right? It's even got its own universe.

Did anyone even buy this?

 

[DarkFalcon]

Has Sakurai ever said someone has to appear in a main title to be eligible for Smash? If not then why is this a point being held on to by people?

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean, Paper Mario is technically a spinoff right? It's even got its own universe.

Did anyone even buy this?

I did. Good little game, cute. No real Paper Mario elements though. It tries to do a lot of things at once. A bit overwhelming.

 

[Will]

His opinion on Ridley was also clear in 2014.

What you believe on the capabilities of utilizing a character model isn't really the same to me as "yeah he's just not it, chief", sorry.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

His opinion on Ridley was also clear in 2014.

What about his opinions in 2018, though?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It looks like Sakurai adds only characters from the main titles of the series. I think that's why Daisy gets in and not Waluigi, because she's in 2 main Mario titles (Super Mario Land and Super Mario Run) and Waluigi was been only on spin-off of the Super Mario franchise.

Wario and Yoshi are protagonist of their own saga (and Waluigi doen't appear on WarioWare either). Every other characters appears in the main title of their saga, the exception is ROB for obvious reasons.



Btw, I do believe that Waluigi has a chance to get in because he's popular, but only for fan demand.

I really think that Daisy and Waluigi are both visible enough in the spin-offs to justify playability. I think the reson she got in over him is simple:

She's an easy clone, he's not.

Besides, he's made Waluigi basically the face of Assists, so it seemed there was already a place in Smash for him. All daisy had before now was inspiration for one of Peach's costumes.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think I want or need any buffs to my mains, Shulk seems fine(don't even think I'll use his new thingy as I mainly rely on Jump and Speed) while Ganon's FSmash and DSmash are straight up buffs from Smash 4(rip the boot though) so they're good already. I'd like Backslash to be better though and Ganoncide shouldn't be escapable.

 

[StormC]

What about his opinions in 2018, though?

Obviously it’s held the same, but things can always change in a future game.

I’m not even an adamant Waluigi supporter, just surprised that people consider him dead forever.

 

[Nazyrus]

lol the denial is real, well it always come to being a matter of time thing with Smash. We denied and were blind to see the "why" of many characters back in Smash 4, it's nothing new this time. Rules are being broken over and over again, there's less to be based on to speculate some things, which is AWESOME imo, because that leaves us open to who knows what type of surprises. Time will tell, only time.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Daisy was also in the Super Mario Bros movie

Dark times... i wish i could forget...

 

[Deleted member]

Has Sakurai ever said someone has to appear in a main title to be eligible for Smash? If not then why is this a point being held on to by people?

I don't think Sakurai ever said a character had to be from a mainline title. I'm pretty sure this rule was made up by fans as a way to explain why characters like Waluigi and Daisy supposedly couldn't be in the game.

In my opinion, though, I don't think we should ignore a character just because they're from a spin-off. Especially when a spin-off character is already in Smash:

That's just me, though. I could be wrong.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly, I think Sakurai's done with clones and semi-clones with this introduction of echoes.
The last kind of characters we've gotten of that breed was in Brawl, a decade ago.

Nope. Roy was the last one in Smash 4’s DLC. I actually hope for more semi-clones as certain Echo suggestions just don’t fit too well. A semi clone would be preferable for the likes of Dixie, Impa, Black Knight, Celica.. you name it. I sure hope they still include just a few.

 

[Idon]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

Well, short of a complete moveset revamp for Shulk, I'd say give me a side-B that has a purpose in life, non-****ty frame data, and a lesser effect on the debuffs.

As for Ike, short of the sword beams, I'd really like a better FSmash and DSmash. Those moves are godawful, especially compared to a guy like Cloud's ridiculous multi-slash or his hilt-bash.

Oh yeah, and maybe a Link that relies less on items than usual.

 

[P.Kat]

So there's 14 music days left before release. And 18 series left to get a sample. 17 if excluding miis if the main theme counts for them.
By removing Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Gyromite, Duck Hunt and maybe Punch-Out and grouping them as one, removing Final Fantasy. There's around 2 possible new IPs in that case.

So my new game here is, which 2 new IPs if you were in charge do you pick for Ultimate?

Based on my own prediction. I'm going with Tekken and Tales(since they were the only new IPs I included in my list).

1. Okami (As if most of you didn't know)
2. Kingdom Hearts

 

[WallyPalmer]

I also heard that Melia's voice actor, Jenna Coleman, is voicing for Dragalia Lost, but I don't know if it's true.

Edit: Sorry for the off-topic post lol. I got a little too excited after hearing that Jenna might be in a new project.

Jenna Coleman? Clara Oswin Oswald Jenna Coleman?

...Ok, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem I can get but where the h*ll do people get the idea that Kirby bias exists??

The three characters having key roles in SSE? Being Sakurai’s own created franchise? If anything, Kirby needs more love and attention.

"Kirby Bias" usually means Sakurai's bias towards the games he made. Beginning at Super Star and ending at Air Ride.

I agree, Kirby is one of my favorite series

I just don't like Bandana Dee. There is so many better and more unique options.

June 25, 2037

Speaking of Zelda characters, we need Sidon.

Don't even care how he's represented. A trophy, a background character, his theme song, a playable character with his trademark arm flex as a taunt - we just need him in the game in some capacity.

Ok but I'd die from Thirst.

Do you know who's fell off the fake leak bandwagon? Bandana Dee.

Prior to the August direct, he was in everyone and their grandma's leaks. Now, almost no leaks seem to have him, even leaks that swear by the holy tetrad of Geno, Issac, Banjo, and Skull Kid don't have him.

Weird thing is, nothing has changed about Bandana Dee's chances. No other Kirby or spear wielding character has been confirmed or even hinted at. He's still extremely popular in Japan, unique, and relevant. You'd also think K. Rool's confirmation and the confirmation that ballot results would play a key part in Smash Ultimate's roster would increase his visibility, given how well he did in that category, but nope.

Granted, this doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd figure a character who has so much going for him would be on more fake rosters.

I was actually about to post something about this. Honestly, seeing the support for Bandana Dee drop off makes very little sense to me. In fact, since the recent Direct, his chances only got higher with Kawasaki's reveal. Now there's almost no chance he's a new Kirby AT. I certainly don't think anyone figures his chances have decreased. Idk, maybe everyone's just relying on Verg a bit too much. We'll see if he has anything to say about the Kirby series.

 

[SonicMario]

I think Shadow still has a little bit of an "Elec Man" concern.

Though for the record I'm not saying Elec Man is a possibility to be playable on the same level as Shadow just because he's a missing AT too. He's just one of many Robot Masters while Shadow is a major Sonic character who's popular. But what they do share is they're both 3rd Party Assist Trophies that might of been just simply replaced by Knuckles and Zero. Though there's also the possibility of them both being Assists again since if a 3rd party franchise can get two characters like Castlevania has, two 3rd party franchise assists wouldn't be too far off either. If the next Smash Direct has the Assist Trophy section prior to the announcement of new echoes and Elec Man shows up but Shadow doesn't though, then yeah I'll practically be preparing for the Shadow echo announcement then. Though I guess it's also possible to Shadow be an echo while Elec Man disappears entirely beyond maybe a normal trophy.

Still, I think there's a chance Shadow at least misses the boat base-game wise that might be getting lost in the excitement and/or gut reactions to Richter's lnclusion. ("Castlevania got two characters! Sonic must be getting one too. Right? ...Right?!?!") But if Echo Fighters will be a thing in DLC, that's kinda when I'd feel he'd be a near guarantee. There would probably be a decent amount of people willing to pay money for Shadow even as just an echo (Though I imagine Echoes would be a cheaper price then full-fledged fighters).

 

[StormC]

I’m legally not allowed to ask for buffs for my main.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

View attachment 160375

They are comparable because both are similarly grasping at straws.

It's almost like there is more evidence outside of the furniture.

 

[Idon]

Nope. Roy was the last one in Smash 4’s DLC. I actually hope for more semi-clones as certain Echo suggestions just don’t fit too well. A semi clone would be preferable for the likes of Dixie, Impa, Black Knight, Celica.. you name it. I sure hope they still include just a few.

Oh yeah, didn't count him (or Lucas) because he's still technically a veteran, despite his myriad changes.

 

[Majora's Visage]

I dunno, every argument for Skull Kid's popularity talks about the popularity of Majora's Mask--the two aren't interchangeable, and it seems like a bait and switch. I'm not denying Skull Kid's popularity--popular enough, Sakurai had to put a disclaimer that he was an assist, not a playable character, and given the Moon assist, it's on my predictions. But a character should get in on their own merits, not simply being a character from a popular game, and I've yet to hear someone articulate why the character should get in, rather than Majora's Mask simply being represented (which if that were the case, Young Link could have simply had his design primarily based on Majora's Mask instead). At least it's more constructive than analyzing pillows, but it would be nice to understand the impetus behind Skull Kid's popularity.

My own reasons for wanting Skull Kid in was because growing up it was always Ganon. He was the primary villain throughout the series and Ganondorf was an iconic representation of that in Ocarina of Time. Skull Kid & Majora were really the first villain that had rivaled Ganon in Power (of course, if Ganon didn't have the Tri-Force of Power) but beyond that, Majora didn't want anything as petty such as power, or to rule the world and plunge it into darkness. No. He wanted to completely obliterate it.

Visually, the Mask itself was imposing, ominous and down right cool looking which added flair and complimented Skull Kid's design. I've always wanted Skull Kid and Majora to come back, in some form, or to even have a prequel where we learn who Majora was and how he was sealed into the Mask.

Overall, the character left a lasting badass impression growing up, and it left me wanting to learn more about him because there is still a lot of potential for the character to have other appearances. I'm hoping we get a prequel someday

 

[AreJay25]

Don't really have to much to ask for in terms of balance for my mains. I feel like is fine as is and I'm totally okay with the adjustments.

I don't main him but all I ask is for to have not **** lasers (which, at the very least, it seems like they're addressing).