Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

Of all echoes so far who are you going to pick up?

I like the looks of Richter more than Simon personally.

And I actually did throw a vote Dark Samus's way last time. Hopefully she has some Smash attacks that mimic her assist trophy moveset because that was the number one reason I did. I don't think we've seen all of her moveset yet either.

 

[Will]

With the talk of deaths of Smash characters, I wonder what character would be revealed that also has some character die. For example, if Isabelle arrived to Smash, would anybody die, and how? Maybe with Geno, that would make more sense, though not complete sense.

I don't like the idea of playable Isabelle, but... I'd imagine seeing the Villager get whacked around by a certain someone is gonna cause their demise.

 

[Shroob]

This is of course, assuming that Isabelle isn't an echo. If she's an echo, she wouldn't get a trailer at all.


Though if she's not an echo.... I really have a hard time imagining what her moveset would be. A LOT of Villager's moves seem perfect for her.

 

[Jimmy John's Pizza]

Super Smash Bros Ultimate direct timestamps


0:00 Simon Belmont reveal trailer

1:21 Simon Lashes Out! as a Fighter

1:51 Dracula is revealed

2:14 Richter Crosses Over! as an Echo Fighter

3:11 Dives into Simon Belmonts Character

4:14 Dracula's Castle is revealed as a stage

5:05 Dracula is shown as a stage hazard

5:36 Alucard is shown as an assit trophy

6:06 Dives into Richters Character

7:01 Chrom Joins the battle! as an Echo Fighter

7:41 Dark Samus Joins the battle! as an Echo Fighter

8:56 Stages

Great Bay

Shadow Moses

Living Room

Gaur Plain

Figure-8 Circuit

Flat Zone X

Pokemon Stadium

Garden of Hope

Brinstar Depths

Summit

Unova Pokémon League

Magicant

Gamer

Final Destination

New Donk City Hall

Fountain of Dreams remastered

Saffron City

Hyrule Castle

Dream Land

Kongo Jungle

Brinstar

Skyloft

11:26 a total of 103 stages including Battlefield Final Destination and Big Battlefield.

All stages include omega form

All stages available for 8 player smash

Stage Hazards can be turned off

Stages just like the fighters are listed chronologically from when they were introduced

Stage Morph can be turned on and allows you to select 2 stages which will morph into each other 12:37

13:05 My Music

My Music mode returns from brawl which allows you to select how frequently the selected songs will play

All songs from a series will play on stages from that series

Roughly 900 tracks total = about 28 hours worth of music

Sound test menu allows you to play any song you like and the songs are organized by series

You are able to use the sound test menu as a music player and let's you make playlists

15:21 Rules

Rules will be the first thing selected before you go into battle, followed up by stages and then characters.

Rules can be made into a preset of your favorite rules

15:43 Stamina Battle becomes a standard smash mode

Option for last battles loser to pick the next stage

16:14 Sudden Death 300%

In Sudden Death walls will now close in on the screen until a player dies

16:30 Final Smash Meter option

Final smash meter will fill up during a match and allows you to use a weaker final smash when fully charged (Basically bringing back older final smashes)

17:02 Battle Modes

Squad Strike 3 vs 3 or 5 vs 5 can be selected

Allows you to select the chosen number of fighters to switch out with each stock

Tourney makes a return and can add up to 32 people including CPU's

Smash Down after a battle in this mode previous selected characters will be unusable until all the fighters are used and a winner is determined

Training now has a grid exclusive stage and has lines measuring launch distances and trajectories 18:12

18:42 Classic Mode returns but each fighter has a unique set of stages and opponents they have to face

19:03 new items Pokémon and assist trophies

19:21 Items

Banana Gun (Used as gun and then functions as a peel)

Killing Edge (When it glows it's power intensifies)

Bomber (Walking bomb when lifted up explodes everything around you)

Death's Scythe (Instant K.O.s badly damaged opponents)

Staff (Fires projectiles that get stronger the further away your target is)

Rablin' Evil Mushroom (Reverses opponent's controls)

Rage Blaster (The higher your damage percentage the stronger it gets)


20:24 Pokémon

Alolan Exeggutor (Giant walking wall)

Abra (Teleports opponent)

Sogaleo (Basically Entei with a homing beam)

Lunala (Basically Lucario's final smash)

Mimikyu (Grabs you and eats you alive)

Pyukumuku (Knocks you away if you attack it)

Vulpix (Does a fire thing in front of it kinda like pk fire)

Alolan Vulpix (Same as Vulpix but it Insta freezes with ice)

Ditto (Makes a clone that looks like you and uses some of the same moves)


21:37 Assist Trophies

Zero

Knuckles

Krystal

Klaptrap (No not from borderlands but from DK all though that would be cool)

Kapp'n

Chef Kawasaki (Kirby's final smash is back! Kinda)

Gray Fox

Nikki

Shovel Knight

Majora's Mask Moon

Ashley (Sadly not a fighter)

23:00 Rathalos from Monster Hunter appears as assist trophy and Boss

23:53 New Menu Layout (Games & More is back, really? F$ck you)

24:46 King K Rool reveal trailer

26:30 All of the new fighters are added to the smash mural

If you would like me to make changes, any additional information or more timestamps please reply with the information below

 

[ZephyrZ]

For example, if Isabelle arrived to Smash, would anybody die, and how?.

Villager is going to murder someone with an axe.

Obviously.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Because the Stage Select Screen has 6 empty boxes on it.

I have a hard time imagining that those won't get filled out.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/e/e5/Stage_Select_Brawl_Normal.jpg Url because SB likes to suck sometimes.

Yeah, it means nothing. We know that having odd slots where one could be doesn't mean a thing. Right now? Let's just stop grasping at straws and accept his extremely clear word as... word. I think DLC is the only chance and he could be meaning the "current build" and will add more last second too. But I wouldn't count on the last second and just wait for DLC.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Still sticking to the LoZ and Verge know nothing of echos and thus Verge having mentioned Isabelle would mean if he's accurate about her?

She's an original newcomer.

 

[KingIceSonic]

It's very interesting to see Vergeben and Loz18 disagree with each other. Both have inside information, both say different things, I wonder who to trust.

Better question is, who do I WANT to trust. Which one has a better list of characters?

 

[Iridium]

I don't like the idea of playable Isabelle, but... I'd imagine seeing the Villager get whacked around by a certain someone is gonna cause their demise.

Yeah, I honestly can't think of a moveset at all. She's a strange case, to be honest.

 

[PSIGuy]

I thought the way Sakurai said "the stages are turning out impressive" meant that they're still trying to fit more in and that they definitely have 103 stages that will ship with the game. But we might get a Bowser Jr. + Koopaling Alts situation where they cram in another stage at the last second thanks to some overtime and dedication. I think we might see some Echoes that don't get announced until the last second for the same reason. Even things like Zero Suit Samus's costumes only happened because staff members worked hard.

They know for sure they have 103 stages shipping but that doesn't mean that's all there is. I mean, remember "everyone is here means no more newcomers"?

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Because the Stage Select Screen has 6 empty boxes on it.

I have a hard time imagining that those won't get filled out.

Those empty boxes mean nothing. If sakurai is telling you there are only 103 stages, there are 103 stages. The layout doesn't disprove what he's saying. Like I said, DLC might fill in the "gaps", but those gaps aren't reason enough to expect more stages. Especially when we've been told that's not the case.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Sorry for late responses, thread is going very fast and it's hard to catch up.

I don't think Skull Kid is likely with that The Moon Assist Trophy. Seems like that would be Skull Kid's FInal Smash. I think Impa is next in line, and for obvious reasons. Zelda already has it's villian with Ganondorf, and that's shown before the K.Rool reveal.

Majora's Wrath can easily be Skull Kid's Final Smash imo.

I would not at all be shocked if we end up getting two Zelda newcomers, Impa as an Echo and Skull Kid as a unique fighter.

IT'S OVER.

I finished updating the 4chan Smash "Leaks" Character Count.

Let's get into the nitty gritty!

Out of 478 supposed leaks, 396 are dead. I'd estimate around 200 were killed today alone. Some came close to living, but either provided too much detail that clashed with information learned today, or lacked Richter. 75 leaks survived the massacre, some of which are close to the brink of death anyways, and 7 supposed leaks have received a new designation, being "Leak of Interest." These supposed leaks have predicted information to a point where they could potentially be seen as credible. I've put these in a special session below, with links included.

I've restarted the Count entirely, seeing as most "leaks" are dead. Upon any major reveal such as that today, I will restart the count again. Essentially, the "All Leaks Count" has been disposed of, replaced with the "Living Leaks Count" that I've been trying to incorporate for the last month or so.

I'm also looking for people to help update, double check, and find "leaks" for the Count. This has been a one man effort up until now, and I know it can't stay that way. I'm about to become very busy, and even with an excess of free time I was barely able to handle the recent deluge of "leaks" from when Vergeben made his statement about Isabelle to now, and had to shift my best efforts to archiving instead of recording as a result of burnout. I'd prefer for that to not happen again, so PM me if you're interested.

That being said, now that the two kings of leaks (Simon and King K. Rool), alongside one of the Big 6 (Ashley) are out of the running, who's left?

1. The most mentioned character as of right now is Shadow the Hedgehog with a whopping 14 mentions.
2. Next is Bandana Dee with 9 mentions
3. Followed by Geno with 8 mentions
4. Fourth place is Dixie Kong with 6 mentions
5. Fifth place is a tie between Isabelle and Decidueye with 5 mentions
6. Seventh place is a tie between Waluigi and Paper Mario with 4 mentions
7. Ninth Place begins what I like to call "low-mention hell," where large ties exist between characters who are only mentioned once, twice, or even three times. In this case, Banjo and Kazooie, Celica, Incineroar, Ninten, Heihachi, Rex & Pyra, and Chibi-Robo

In the spoilers below are those "Leaks of Interest" that could potentially be real. I'll give my own thoughts on each one as well. I'm omitting two of them, as they're Vergeben and loz18. We all know what they've said, and any opinions I have about them have already been voiced.

Spoiler: Session

There it is. Today was a large day for the Smash Bros. community, and I'm excited to see what comes next! I'll keep bringing "leaks" over here for all of your enjoyment and discussion. Thank you all for your support throughout this project.

My two most wanted newcomers are the top two most leaked now!

Also Swamp Sensei I saw you asked if we thought Smash Run was deconfirmed or not after this presentation. I saw the post several pages back but it's too far back for me to go and find it because this thread has been moving incredibly fast today. Anyway, I think it's slightly unlikelier to return then it was before today, but keep in mind that we still haven't seen what's in the Games and More section of the menu and I bet Smash Run would be moved there if it's returning just so they can make room for whatever this new mode is going to be.

If it doesn't return, hopefully the new mode reuses several assets from it and is a grand adventure mode drawing from all the different franchises.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, it means nothing. We know that having odd slots where one could be doesn't mean a thing. Right now? Let's just stop grasping at straws and accept his extremely clear word as... word. I think DLC is the only chance and he could be meaning the "current build" and will add more last second too. But I wouldn't count on the last second and just wait for DLC.

Except Smash Ultimate's design is a perfect Square.

If it were laid out like this, that'd be one thing, but the shape is completely intentional.


Besides, I don't count the 'numbers' as meaning much until the game launches. The website used to read "65 characters" and boom, here's 2 more+3 echoes.

Things will change the closer things get until launch.

 

[SvartWolf]

Shadow, Isaac, Isabelle. Though Isaac is only technically missing by proxy, as he wasn't in 4. Rest are gone too.

Isabelle is also not seeable on the preview for Town and City, a stage she otherwise shows up in. Could be a deliberate choice to make it seem obvious to us.

Speaking of, I'm wondering if the red-eyes thing Sakurai tweeted was an intentional hint too?

have we already seen Kat and Ana? and Saki?

 

[Deleted member]

Good night, everyone.
That direct was amazing, and I am crossing my fingers for "Spirits" to be a Brawl like Adventure Mode.

 

[Starbound]

So, here is a question...

How many new series do you feel will get playable characters at this point? Do you think we will get any more?

Any third parties seem to be the only viable source for characters for new series. The only exception might be Isaac since it seems like the ballot matters. And even then, we might just be looking at options like Heihachi or Lloyd.

Every main Nintendo IP is already here aside from ARMS, which I kind of doubt since this game really seems to favor the ballot. It seems like a lot of ballot support went to characters from already existing series and missing vets.

 

[Deleted member]

I think some people are taking the 103 thing to heart a bit much.

You can clearly see 6 empty spots on the SSS(Odd saying SSS instead of CSS), and we already have Random accounted for.

While I could see one spot being conserved for "DLC" like last game, that'd still leave us with 5 MIA stages for the base game.

Not only that, but the 3DS Mute City is listed as "Mute City SNES", which it only would if there were another stage with the name "Mute City".
....like the one from Melee?

And what I said before about the "Zero (Mega Man)" thing implying there's more than one series with a "Zero" present. And since Pyrosphere had "Zero (Metroid)" as an enemy on the stage.....

 

[Nakamura]

Has it been confirmed if all stages are unlocked from the start ?

 

[SmashingXan2]

In terms of base game, I really don't feel like we'll see anyone else. Unless:

• Rathalos and Ancestral Steppe actually does lead to a playable Monster Hunter character (which I doubt)
• Geno gets in, and is not considered a Mario character (which I doubt)
• Isaac gets in (which I'm not very confident about)

Those are the only cases I can see where we actually get another newcomer from a new franchise, which kills me to say, coming from someone who really wants a Rhythm Heaven newcomer more than anything else.

It's all about popularity this time around, and franchises like Rhythm Heaven unfortunately, don't really have that.

3rd party, like Rayman or Banjo

Has it been confirmed if all stages are unlocked from the start ?

Yes, they are

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I can't believe we saw all of the stages. That's basically saying "We're not adding any more characters from unique universes - or even games - anymore" That's not happening.

We have 103...so far. Probably going to see another few come by by the end.

I'm guessing there'll be a general direct next month to talk about the online service, and they'll probably tack a unique newcomer trailer on to that. Afterwards, we'll get another infodump direct to give the rest of the characters and modes just before release, assuming it doesn't get leaked in full by then.

 

[MainJPW]

Has it been confirmed if all stages are unlocked from the start ?

Yep. All unlocked from the start.

 

[Noipoi]

Of all echoes so far who are you going to pick up?

I like the looks of Richter more than Simon personally.

And I actually did throw a vote Dark Samus's way last time. Hopefully she has some Smash attacks that mimic her assist trophy moveset because that was the number one reason I did. I don't think we've seen all of her moveset yet either.

I actually really like Dark Samus' animations. She feels so unnatural I love it.
Also, I will only play Daisy if "HI I'M DAISY!!!" is a taunt.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Except Smash Ultimate's design is a perfect Square.

If it were laid out like this, that'd be one thing, but the shape is completely intentional.


Besides, I don't count the 'numbers' as meaning much until the game launches. The website used to read "65 characters" and boom, here's 2 more+3 echoes.

Things will change the closer things get until launch.

I would be in agreement with you if he didnt go out of his way to give us a specific number for the amount of stages we have in the direct. If the site was the only source of info we had saying 103 stages, I would be much more inclined to look for more stages. But it's not the case.

There aren't very many ways to align 103 stages neatly so I think gaps were inevitable. Either way, until we get any info on playable stages that aren't in that list, there is 0 reason to assume we were lied to.

Space on a stage select screen is nowhere near enough evidence to support us getting more stages in the base game.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm taking a wait and see approach to the stages. The wording can be interpreted as a definite thing, but it can also be speaking from a present tone and the stage list will update in the future and we do not know everything the game is offering, so some of them could be kept under wrap for reasons we will not know until the future.

 

[Shroob]

Sakurai literally says "there are 103 stages in the game", and then shows 103 of them, and uploads them all to the site. How could that be taking it too much to heart?

DLC is a different beast entirely. But until something speaks otherwise, there's 0 reason to believe we have been misled.

Sakurai also said not to expect too many new characters, here's 5 more btw.

The website read 65 characters, here's 2 more+3 echoes btw.


Until the game comes out, numbers are ****ing meaningless.


Do you honestly think if we get another 3rd party character they wouldn't have a home stage, for example? I can waiver the idea of Nintendo characters, but if someone like Heihachi or Lloyd got in, it's very nearsighted to assume "No more stages!"

And that's not even to say that there's no new Pokemon stage, which while not confirmed yet, I doubt we'd go a Smash game without a new Pokemon character and stage.


These numbers mean nothing until the game's out.

 

[BlondeLombax]

When are we getting the smilies for the new characters from today? I need to expand upon my signature.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

have we already seen Kat and Ana? and Saki?

No and No.

Except Smash Ultimate's design is a perfect Square.

If it were laid out like this, that'd be one thing, but the shape is completely intentional.


Besides, I don't count the 'numbers' as meaning much until the game launches. The website used to read "65 characters" and boom, here's 2 more+3 echoes.

Things will change the closer things get until launch.

That's not remotely the same thing as Sakurai declaring there are exactly 103 stages and outright telling us that everything is coming except stages, which he's shown all of.

You're straw-grasping here.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/thumb/9/9e/SSBWiiU_Character_Select.jpg Take a look at this for a moment. This is the final roster. Notice how it isn't some perfect square? https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/4b/Full_Roster_Wii_U.jpg Now look at it before DLC. Same thing. It's not a thing that ever mattered. We went through song and dance before, and in the end, it doesn't tell us anything. Just take the man at his word. Now, it is possible the English direct is a bit of a mistranslation and that "there's only this many so far", but that's at least less of a straw-grasp than silly perfectionalism that's actually never been a thing for select screens in Smash.

 

[Shroob]

No and No.


That's not remotely the same thing as Sakurai declaring there are exactly 103 stages and outright telling us that everything is coming except stages, which he's shown all of.

You're straw-grasping here.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/thumb/9/9e/SSBWiiU_Character_Select.jpg Take a look at this for a moment. This is the final roster. Notice how it isn't some perfect square? https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/4b/Full_Roster_Wii_U.jpg Now look at it before DLC. Same thing. It's not a thing that ever mattered. We went through song and dance before, and in the end, it doesn't tell us anything. Just take the man at his word. Now, it is possible the English direct is a bit of a mistranslation and that "there's only this many so far", but that's at least less of a straw-grasp than silly perfectionalism that's actually never been a thing for select screens in Smash.

I'm going to just agree to disagree here.

I don't believe we've seen every stage there is, and let's be real, stages, not characters, I'm not assuming that "Oh, new stage means new character, guys!" I just don't take "Sakurai said x, it must mean y!" to heart. At all.

 

[Zinith]

I just remembered. We're now up to 3 western developed characters: Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K. Rool

 

[BlondeLombax]

I just remembered. We're now up to 3 western developed characters: Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K. Rool

I wonder if people still consider Sakurai biased against those specific franchises after today, particularly the individual whose privacy I respect and refuse to name. He was adamant in believing as such, so seeing all this love for western-loved franchises must have cut a few cords, the way I see it.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I'm going to just agree to disagree here.

I don't believe we've seen every stage there is, and let's be real, stages, not characters, I'm not assuming that "Oh, new stage means new character, guys!" I just don't take "Sakurai said x, it must mean y!" to heart. At all.

I don't see how you're getting sakurai said X it must mean Y.
We're saying sakurai said "X", it must mean "X". He said there are exactly 103 stages, and then showed them all, meaning there are 103 stages. Believing literally anything else is assuming sakurai has misled you, and is therefore saying it must mean "Y".

 

[drag0nscythe]

Playing with CSS.
Given how Sakurai showed the echo combination setting for the css, I think we have not seen the final character select screen, I am thinking more squares.
And since speculation is fun, if we arrange the characters as in my image, outside of echos, there would be 4 mroe possible unique newcomers .

Smash 64 on top row.
Melee on second row.
Brawl, Smash4
DLC and ultimate.

looks smooth. I predict 4 more unique new characters.
And only 1 echo per character. (thinking about 12 more echos.)

 

[NeonBurrito]

Sakurai also said not to expect too many new characters, here's 5 more btw.

The website read 65 characters, here's 2 more+3 echoes btw.


Until the game comes out, numbers are ****ing meaningless.


Do you honestly think if we get another 3rd party character they wouldn't have a home stage, for example? I can waiver the idea of Nintendo characters, but if someone like Heihachi or Lloyd got in, it's very nearsighted to assume "No more stages!"

And that's not even to say that there's no new Pokemon stage, which while not confirmed yet, I doubt we'd go a Smash game without a new Pokemon character and stage.


These numbers mean nothing until the game's out.

I'm honestly kind of just getting to a point where I stop believing anything Sakurai says. Who knows what goes on inside the big man's head.

 

[Shroob]

I don't see how you're getting sakurai said X it must mean Y.
We're saying sakurai said "X", it must mean "X". He said there are exactly 103 stages, and then showed them all, meaning there are 103 stages. Believing literally anything else is assuming sakurai has misled you, and is therefore saying it must mean "Y".

I used X and Y incorrectly, sue me.

 

[Deleted member]

No and No.


That's not remotely the same thing as Sakurai declaring there are exactly 103 stages and outright telling us that everything is coming except stages, which he's shown all of.

You're straw-grasping here.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/thumb/9/9e/SSBWiiU_Character_Select.jpg Take a look at this for a moment. This is the final roster. Notice how it isn't some perfect square? https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/4b/Full_Roster_Wii_U.jpg Now look at it before DLC. Same thing. It's not a thing that ever mattered. We went through song and dance before, and in the end, it doesn't tell us anything. Just take the man at his word. Now, it is possible the English direct is a bit of a mistranslation and that "there's only this many so far", but that's at least less of a straw-grasp than silly perfectionalism that's actually never been a thing for select screens in Smash.

There's a big difference.

Notice how whenever any of those are uneven, the row is centered. This holds true with pretty much ANY of the unfinished select screens that aren't in set position like Smash 64 and Melee.
On the Stage Select screen we saw for Ultimate, everything on the bottom row is aligned to the left rather than centered.
....why would that be if that space wasn't meant to be filled?

 

[AzureFlame4]

Calling it now. "Sim" is going to be the wtf character no one expects.

Also something I realized is if there is a new boss mode that could explain the missing Skull Kid and that worries me.

 

[Darkraid]

There's a question for everyone we are not talking about

Since monster hunter is being presented

Wouldn't that mean monster hunter from monster hunter is extremely possible now?

Prob DLC I guess

 

[viewtifulduck82]

View attachment 156509

Playing with CSS.
Given how Sakurai showed the echo combination setting for the css, I think we have not seen the final character select screen, I am thinking more squares.
And since speculation is fun, if we arrange the characters as in my image, outside of echos, there would be 4 mroe possible unique newcomers .

Smash 64 on top row.
Melee on second row.
Brawl, Smash4
DLC and ultimate.

looks smooth. I predict 4 more unique new characters.
And only 1 echo per character. (thinking about 12 more echos.)

We do this every smash cycle, and it never works because the boxes change size and shape to fit whatever amount the game ends up with.
It's fun to do sure, but sakurai doesn't look at the CSS and say "hmmm, I could fit 4 more boxes, so let's make 4 more characters."

 

[Starbound]

Going through the roster to see if I can find any further echo candidates.

Spoiler

 

[Zinith]

Going through the roster to see if I can find any further echo candidates.

Spoiler

Umm, can I contribute to my boi there?