Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

There's a big difference.

Notice how whenever any of those are uneven, the row is centered. This holds true with pretty much ANY of the unfinished select screens that aren't in set position like Smash 64 and Melee.
On the Stage Select screen we saw for Ultimate, everything on the bottom row is aligned to the left rather than centered.
....why would that be if that space wasn't meant to be filled?

That's my general thought as well.

Sakurai always centers his menus. Look at Melee's CSS or Smash 4's CSS. Brawl and Smash 4's stage select, as chaotic as they are, are centered.

To just shove a bunch of stages to the left instead of centering them underneath the stages makes 0 design sense from what he's done for 4 games prior.


Yes, there's a first for everything, and do I expect 6 more stages? Probably not, but this is just not like him.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The thing to remember most of all is there are still 4 months till the game releases.

Sakurai has played a lot of major reveals so far.

Including 2 of the big 3 long standing wants in Ridley and K. Rool.

He added in smaller but still sizable fan requests like Daisy and Chrom.

He's played the most expected and wanted newcomer in Inklings at the start.

He's played a new major third party in Simon.

He still has some **** up his sleeve otherwise he would've saved some of this for late game hype reveals.

 

[drag0nscythe]

We do this every smash cycle, and it never works because the boxes change size and shape to fit whatever amount the game ends up with.
It's fun to do sure, but sakurai doesn't look at the CSS and say "hmmm, I could fit 4 more boxes, so let's make 4 more characters."

There is usually a rhyme to the CSS though

Smash 64 was square,
Melee was complete with two randoms in the corners
Brawl was a square
Smash4 on Wii U was symmetrical and would have been perfect square if not for the addition of corrin.
So, I do expect some kind of pleasantness. Size of the boxes is not in question. amount of characters is.

 

[Starbound]

The only time it wasn't centered was Smash 3DS stage selection, which, conveniently, left one square open to be the page scroll for DLC stages. So 5 more stages is what I think we'll be working with.

 

[Blargg888]

No and No.


That's not remotely the same thing as Sakurai declaring there are exactly 103 stages and outright telling us that everything is coming except stages, which he's shown all of.

You're straw-grasping here.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/thumb/9/9e/SSBWiiU_Character_Select.jpg Take a look at this for a moment. This is the final roster. Notice how it isn't some perfect square? https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/4b/Full_Roster_Wii_U.jpg Now look at it before DLC. Same thing. It's not a thing that ever mattered. We went through song and dance before, and in the end, it doesn't tell us anything. Just take the man at his word. Now, it is possible the English direct is a bit of a mistranslation and that "there's only this many so far", but that's at least less of a straw-grasp than silly perfectionalism that's actually never been a thing for select screens in Smash.

Sakurai also said not to expect too many new characters, here's 5 more btw.

The website read 65 characters, here's 2 more+3 echoes btw.


Until the game comes out, numbers are ****ing meaningless.


Do you honestly think if we get another 3rd party character they wouldn't have a home stage, for example? I can waiver the idea of Nintendo characters, but if someone like Heihachi or Lloyd got in, it's very nearsighted to assume "No more stages!"

And that's not even to say that there's no new Pokemon stage, which while not confirmed yet, I doubt we'd go a Smash game without a new Pokemon character and stage.


These numbers mean nothing until the game's out.

The exact line from the Direct is, "The stage total is turning out to be pretty impressive. Let's compare it to the number in previous games."
"Now the total number of stages is, voila, 103. We must be crazy."

It's possible to interpret the first line as, "The amount of stages we have is becoming pretty large."
And it's also possible to interpret the second line as, "These are all the stages."
So it's hard to say whether or not we are definitively getting more stages or not.

There aren't very many ways to align 103 stages neatly so I think gaps were inevitable. Either way, until we get any info on playable stages that aren't in that list, there is 0 reason to assume we were lied to.

You're forgetting something important.
The random button.

With the Random button, there are 104 squares on the SSS. If they really only had 103 stages, then they could have just made the stage list 8x13, and it would have been fine.

No and No.


That's not remotely the same thing as Sakurai declaring there are exactly 103 stages and outright telling us that everything is coming except stages, which he's shown all of.

You're straw-grasping here.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/thumb/9/9e/SSBWiiU_Character_Select.jpg Take a look at this for a moment. This is the final roster. Notice how it isn't some perfect square? https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/4b/Full_Roster_Wii_U.jpg Now look at it before DLC. Same thing. It's not a thing that ever mattered. We went through song and dance before, and in the end, it doesn't tell us anything. Just take the man at his word. Now, it is possible the English direct is a bit of a mistranslation and that "there's only this many so far", but that's at least less of a straw-grasp than silly perfectionalism that's actually never been a thing for select screens in Smash.

Your argument about the Smash 4 SSS not being a square falls flat because Smash 4's SSS was never designed to be a square. The stages are all just on a background, with no underlying design.

The Smash Ult. SSS on the other hand has a very clear and obvious square design, which implies that there could be more stages.

 

[uhmuzing]

The leak alleging Gardevoir and Gothitelle are in the game is kind of exciting to me. It would be wildly unexpected, but they would make more unique fighters than Incineroar/Decidueye/Lycanroc imo. Or maybe it's just that I really don't want those three.

 

[FurretBro]

The thing to remember most of all is there are still 4 months till the game releases.

Sakurai has played a lot of major reveals so far.

Including 2 of the big 3 long standing wants in Ridley and K. Rool.

He added in smaller but still sizable fan requests like Daisy and Chrom.

He's played the most expected and wanted newcomer in Inklings at the start.

He's played a new major third party in Simon.

He still has some **** up his sleeve otherwise he would've saved some of this for late game hype reveals.

Geno man, I'm hoping for the best here

 

[Shroob]

At this point, I'd be surprised if Geno didn't get in.

Then again, Cloud apparently still only has 2 songs, so maybe Square isn't being as on-board with Smash still.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Geno man, I'm hoping for the best here

Geno's not big enough to be the final hype bringer...

 

[Deleted member]

That's my general thought as well.

Sakurai always centers his menus. Look at Melee's CSS or Smash 4's CSS. Brawl and Smash 4's stage select, as chaotic as they are, are centered.

To just shove a bunch of stages to the left instead of centering them underneath the stages makes 0 design sense from what he's done for 4 games prior.


Yes, there's a first for everything, and do I expect 6 more stages? Probably not, but this is just not like him.

And as I said before, two of those stages have to be Melee's Mute City as well as Pyrosphere.
Anything else is fair game.

 

[Will]

Off topic but I'm gonna miss the hell out of Twilight Princess Link. He was really my favorite in terms of design. now wolf link has to happen for him to come back

Geno's not big enough to be the final hype bringer...

Nothing can be bigger than Ridley and K. Rool. Not Rex, not a new Pokemon, and no other third party.
Unless...

Nah, never gonna happen.

 

[Darkraid]

I don't think Skull Kid is likely with that The Moon Assist Trophy. Seems like that would be Skull Kid's FInal Smash. I think Impa is next in line, and for obvious reasons. Zelda already has it's villian with Ganondorf, and that's shown before the K.Rool reveal.

No, i think it increased his chances. Also loz18 specifically said he was likely

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's a big difference.

Notice how whenever any of those are uneven, the row is centered. This holds true with pretty much ANY of the unfinished select screens that aren't in set position like Smash 64 and Melee.
On the Stage Select screen we saw for Ultimate, everything on the bottom row is aligned to the left rather than centered.
....why would that be if that space wasn't meant to be filled?

DLC I guess? Also, the way it was on the 3DS version(especially the CSS) is that it was aligned to the left, and then you selected an option itself that took up the rest of it to choose the other characters.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/42/Stage_Select_SSB4-3DS_Extra-Update.jpg Here's a notable example of an image I looked at earlier. These things can happen.

 

[Iridium]

Of all echoes so far who are you going to pick up?

I like the looks of Richter more than Simon personally.

And I actually did throw a vote Dark Samus's way last time. Hopefully she has some Smash attacks that mimic her assist trophy moveset because that was the number one reason I did. I don't think we've seen all of her moveset yet either.

I would quite literally pick any echo that is not Daisy. Plain and simple for me.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I did not expect to feel as excited as I did for Chrom. I've always liked him but seeing him made me giddy. It helps he echoes Roy who I also like, but has Ike's up b. Then Dark Samus came around and I was over the moon. The echoes got the most reaction out of me.

 

[BlondeLombax]

So, with everybody returning, tons of fan-favorites making their debut, and absolutely LOADS of beloved stages making a comeback, what's the very first thing you guys plan on doing when you get Ultimate?

I plan on unlocking everybody first, then playing out my own little event matches (i.e. fighting a horde of Ridleys on Brinstar Depths as Samus, Mario Bros. vs King K. Rool) and reenactments (Kirby vs. Dedede on the Fountain of Dreams with rare chances of a Star Rod spawning, the Awakening 3 taking on an overpowered Ridley). I love Smash Bros. for allowing these sorts of fantasies to become reality, and Ultimate is proving to be the best of all.

 

[Dracyoshi]

This reminds me of the "So I'm kind of hoping you aren't expecting too many new challengers" debate.
It could be interpreted in many ways and it's up to analyzing previous patterns and logical guesses to figure out what it means.
And they've given out temporary numbers before. See: The total size of the character roster.

 

[Poopyhead]

With the Heroes vs Villains talk going on, I have to say it's a disappointment that the Medusa statue in the trailer didn't fully come to life and end up Medusa from Kid Icarus.

Also, with the way Chrom/Dark Samus have differences from their original fighter, I thought maybe it would be possible to make Medusa or Viridi a Palutena Echo. But the main thing to note is that neither has a shield, which Palutena uses for back air/dash attack/counter. I do think they could get around Medusa not being an angel and therefore not having wings, and probably even Viridi's size, but all things considered I think they're still too different from Palutena to be an echo.

Which sucks, a lot, because I can't imagine them getting in as unique fighters at this point.

edit: then again sakurai made KI:U so he can give medusa a shield and make viridi 10 feet tall if he wants

 

[Shroob]

I'm still seeing people argue that "Dixie can't be an Echo! She'd play nothing like Diddy!" even after Chrom got shown to have a different special than Roy.

Ya know who shouldn't play like her original?




And yet it happened.

 

[Will]

Of all echoes so far who are you going to pick up?

I like the looks of Richter more than Simon personally.

And I actually did throw a vote Dark Samus's way last time. Hopefully she has some Smash attacks that mimic her assist trophy moveset because that was the number one reason I did. I don't think we've seen all of her moveset yet either.

I only pay attention to Daisy when lewds are involved, not even gonna lie. Outside of that she looks like a Barbie bootleg. Not a fan of her voice either, though I liked her Gamecube era one.
Simon is cool, but Richter gives me JoJo vibes. If Simon has a really good alt that's my style, I'll pick him instead.
Dark Samus all the way, but I don't see it getting pretty high competitively.
I don't really main FE but since Roy and Ike are my most played, and Chrom is their lovechild, you can expect me to pick him up for funsies.

 

[AreJay25]

So, with everybody returning, tons of fan-favorites making their debut, and absolutely LOADS of beloved stages making a comeback, what's the very first thing you guys plan on doing when you get Ultimate?

I plan on unlocking everybody first, then playing out my own little event matches (i.e. fighting a horde of Ridleys on Brinstar Depths as Samus, Mario Bros. vs King K. Rool) and reenactments (Kirby vs. Dedede on the Fountain of Dreams with rare chances of a Star Rod spawning, the Awakening 3 taking on an overpowered Ridley). I love Smash Bros. for allowing these sorts of fantasies to become reality, and Ultimate is proving to be the best of all.

Same thing I do every game; a playthrough of Classic Mode. Not sure who I'll use yet, but it'll probably be either Mario or Kirby.

After that I'll work towards unlocking everyone.

 

[N3ON]

Updated the chart.

Simon is only the second third-party to debut on a Nintendo system!

Also added Skull Kid and Incineroar.

 

[Blargg888]

I'll definitely pick up Chrom.

As for the other Echoes, I'll check out Richter. He looks like he could be fun.

 

[Will]

I'm still seeing people argue that "Dixie can't be an Echo! She'd play nothing like Diddy!" even after Chrom got shown to have a different special than Roy.

Ya know who shouldn't play like her original?




And yet it happened.

Who the hell is saying that? Diddy and Dixie are pretty much copycats outside of the neutral special, up special, and jab. I don't know what you could do to replace the Peanut Popgun (perhaps use the blowdart that shot grapes), but the recovery and jab is easy to fix.

 

[Shroob]

Who the hell is saying that? Diddy and Dixie are pretty much copycats outside of the neutral special, up special, and jab. I don't know what you could do to replace the Peanut Popgun (perhaps use the blowdart that shot grapes), but the recovery and jab is easy to fix.

le leddit, primarily.

People there REALLY hate the idea of Dixie being a clone of Diddy.

As a die hard DKC and Metroid fan myself, I was ****ing ecstatic today, and I'd take what I could ****ing get tbh.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Who the hell is saying that? Diddy and Dixie are pretty much copycats outside of the neutral special, up special, and jab. I don't know what you could do to replace the Peanut Popgun (perhaps use the blowdart that shot grapes), but the recovery and jab is easy to fix.

Dixie has a bubblegun popgun in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Sakurai also said not to expect too many new characters, here's 5 more btw.

The website read 65 characters, here's 2 more+3 echoes btw.


Until the game comes out, numbers are ****ing meaningless.


Do you honestly think if we get another 3rd party character they wouldn't have a home stage, for example? I can waiver the idea of Nintendo characters, but if someone like Heihachi or Lloyd got in, it's very nearsighted to assume "No more stages!"

And that's not even to say that there's no new Pokemon stage, which while not confirmed yet, I doubt we'd go a Smash game without a new Pokemon character and stage.


These numbers mean nothing until the game's out.

Oh please; the only unique newcomers so far has been Simon, K. Rool, Inklings and Ridley so far which is 4. Sakurai statement still stands as most people care more about unique characters than clones. We have 4 echos which are basically glorified Alts and takes much less effort. Sakurai literally meant don't expect to many "brand" new characters. He also said there's only a couple more to reveal and I'll just leave it at that; you decide on that wording.

People really trying to reach when there's nothing to reach about.

 

[Will]

Updated the chart.

View attachment 156511

Was Impa in Adventure of Link or something? I haven't played that game in so long.

Dixie has a bubblegun popgun in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze

**** that's nothing then, all you need to do is replace the recovery and you have easy programming character. I never supported DK (not in a bad way just never cared) but that's pretty stupid to say you can't clone Diddy.

 

[Blargg888]

Oh please; the only unique newcomers so far has been Simon, K. Rool, Inklings and Ridley so far which is 4. Sakurai statement still stands as most people care more about unique characters than clones. We have 4 echos which are basically glorified Alts and takes much less effort. Sakurai literally meant don't expect to many "brand" new characters.

The whole, "Echoes are just glorified alts" thing went out the window the moment Chrom was revealed.

Sure, some Echoes are just glorified alts, but Chrom proves that they don't have to be.

 

[AreJay25]

I'll more than likely end up using Richter more than Simon but I'll definitely alternate between the two.

Dark Samus is absolutely seeing more use than Samus.

Chrom... depends on whether or not he has a balanced blade ala Lucina. If he does then I'll play him more than Roy.

I hate playing Peach so Daisy is out entirely lol.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Was Impa in Adventure of Link or something? I haven't played that game in so long.


**** that's nothing then, all you need to do is replace the recovery and you have easy programming character. I never supported DK (not in a bad way just never cared) but that's pretty stupid to say you can't clone Diddy.

Only in the manual, like the first game. She's a part of the "official story" regardless. Her first literal game debut was the CD-i games, heh.

 

[Will]

Only in the manual, like the first game. She's a part of the "official story" regardless. Her first literal game debut was the CD-i games, heh.

So this chart mentions references instead of in-game appearances? I'm not a fan of Little Mac being in the arcade either. Maybe Wireframe Mac since it's a reference, but he was in the NES/maybe SNES/Wii games only. The guy in the arcade games was just a random player, probably the same guy from Arm Wrestling.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Main reason I was against Dixie being an Echo Fighter was because, originally, Echo Fighters were thought to play almost one-to-one with their original counterparts, meaning that she'd use the Rocketbarrel Pack and have no use of her hair whatsoever which would be... almost disrespectful to her character.

Now that we know Echoes can have different moves from their original counterparts, as seen with Chrom, I'm a little more open to the idea.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

The whole, "Echoes are just glorified alts" thing went out the window the moment Chrom was revealed.

Sure, some Echoes are just glorified alts, but Chrom proves that they don't have to be.

Chrome is a mix of reused assets and is literally the only one so far. Point still stands that he's practically a clone/ mixed clone.

 

[Blargg888]

Also, I never commented on this before, but I love how, similar to Megaman, they replicated Simon's silly NES strut perfectly.
It's just so spot on, I love it.

 

[Will]

Chrome is a mix of reused assets and is literally the only one so far.

Chrom's aether is way different than Ike's, pay attention to how he opens up with it.

 

[Blargg888]

Chrom is a mix of reused assets and is literally the only one so far.

I'm aware.

What's your point? That doesn't change what I said.

 

[P.Kat]

With the talk of deaths of Smash characters, I wonder what character would be revealed that also has some character die. For example, if Isabelle arrived to Smash, would anybody die, and how? Maybe with Geno, that would make more sense, though not complete sense.

Bowser, and Bowser Jr. would be next. Bowser and his son (in his clown car) are making a ruckus in Smashville, bullying, stealing, painting graffiti on the trees, and worst of all... jaywalking. The Villager would help, but he's busy cutting a giant tree for lumber for a neighbor not to far away, so he asks Isabelle to put a stop to it. She approaches them while also carrying a stack of heavy papers hoping to teach them about good manners, and kindness.

Her mind also wanders back to that mysterious envelope she got with, a weird circle and cross symbol, the same one her mayor got. Suddenly *a wild rock appears*. She trips on the rock, sending the papers flying in the wind, and into the face of a neighbor, upstairs watering their plant

Who knocks the giant flowerpot over.

Which hits a bird.

Who's tailspins out of the sky

Who's beak pops a balloon holding a present (before the bird gains control and fly's way)

Which contains a Bowling ball

That hits the palm tree that Bowser and son was under.

Which knocks off the Coconut.

That hits Bowser in the head, with the bowling ball and the hard flowerpot bombarding him also.

He faints, falling backwards landing in his son's tiny car. Bowser Jr. loses control of the car while stuck in it and crashes into the same tree Villager was chopping, causing it to fall over on top of the two Koopas. The giant tree hits them head on, and literally hammers them into the ground six feet under with two big stones unearthed where they stood at the same time.

Isabelle gets up after tripping wondering where the Koopa duo went, but quickly doesn't worry about it since they're gone, glad that they hopefully learned their lesson about good manners by themselves, and probably left to teach kindness and good manners to others

Villager waves to Isabelle, thanking her for keeping the town peaceful, both of them unaware of what really happened.

Cue Splash art:

Isabelle Delivers the Win.

 

[Mc.Rad]

This is going to be me if the Deathborn reveal is real and this is going to still be all of you looking at me weird

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Chrom's aether is way different than Ike's, pay attention to how he opens up with it.

Literally the same concept as aether.