Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why are people assuming Isabelle is a likely Villager Echo?

I get that she’s popular, but unless you want her to have the body shape of the City Folk Villager, she literally CANNOT be an Echo.

 

[Dandelionel]

Why are people assuming Isabelle is a likely Villager Echo?

I get that she’s popular, but unless you want her to have the body shape of the City Folk Villager, she literally CANNOT be an Echo.

Lucina and Daisy are shorter than their base, and that didn't stop them from being echoes. I don't think Isabelle is that likely as an echo, but she could end up being one

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Lucina and Daisy are shorter than their base, and that didn't stop them from being echoes. I don't think Isabelle is that likely as an echo, but she could end up being one

They ARE shorter, but they still have the same general body shape, a body shape that’s similar, albeit smaller than the original.

It’s not size that matters here, it’s her body build. City Folk Villy and Isabelle are VERY different in that aspect.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

OH, well...

To the leak LIST!

batman noises.

It's so weird hearing Charles Martine as Wario saying full sentences.
I actually met Charles Martine at a con a While back, Got my Mario Amiibo signed.
By the way, my gosh, you can tell that man loves his job xD

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is it bad that I still think that people are overestimating Isabelle's chances? I know that she didn't appear in the Smash Ultimate E3 build, but I think that in the end, she'll still get the Assist Trophy treatment; it's better than seeing her get mauled by Ridley anyway.

 

[Opossum]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Want:
Chrom
Celica
Decidueye
Crash Bandicoot
Captain Toad

Expect:
Simon (Vergeben)
Isabelle (Biggest Nintendo icon not yet in)
Alola Pokémon (no way Sakurai is missing the 20th anniversary game)
Captain Toad (important recurring Mario character)
Elma (timing)

 

[Smashiny]

It's so weird hearing Charles Martine as Wario saying full sentences.
I actually met Charles Martine at a con a While back, Got my Mario Amiibo signed.
By the way, my gosh, you can tell that man loves his job xD

Yeah he always seems so happy when he does the voices

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is it bad that I still think that people are overestimating Isabelle's chances? I know that she didn't appear in the Smash Ultimate E3 build, but I think that in the end, she'll still get the Assist Trophy treatment; it's better than seeing her get mauled by Ridley anyway.

You’re not alone.

 

[Dandelionel]

They ARE shorter, but they still have the same general body shape, a body shape that’s similar, albeit smaller than the original.

It’s not size that matters here, it’s her body build. City Folk Villy and Isabelle are VERY different in that aspect.

Now that you mention it, if Isabelle was indeed an echo fighter Villager should have been updated to match his New Leaf appearence. I think those two were similar in build but I haven't played New Leaf in a long, long time.

 

[RandomDude234]

Super random prediction here..

But the final characters I see are..

King K. Rool
Ashley
Bandana Dee
Skull Kid
Geno
Simon Belmont

When you see Super Mario RPG being announced for Nintendo Switch in a Nintendo Direct, expect Geno.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Now that you mention it, if Isabelle was indeed an echo fighter Villager should have been updated to match his New Leaf appearence. I think those two were similar in build but I haven't played New Leaf in a long, long time.

They’re not quite the same, but the difference isn’t as drastic either.

 

[Jgt044]

We've been talking about echo fighters for a while, so how about we discuss something a bit different.

What do you guys/gals think about the Vergeben "leak" now that e3 has come and gone? Does your opinion of it now differ from your opinion before e3? (Is he credible or just lucky?)

Personally, I was skeptical of it mostly because it just seemed kinda wish-listy imo. Getting all the characters back from Wii U, as well as Ridley (who, while being my most wanted newcomer at the time, I didn't see as likely at all after Sakurai's comments during Smash 4 speculation), and Simon Belmont and Snake (Konami) was just kinda crazy to me. But after e3, I think Simon Belmont, even without the "leak," seems like a likely third party candidate, especially now Snake is in and Bomberman was deconfirmed. I'm still curious about whether the Minecraft thing is related to an assist trophy or a stage....

 

[Fatmanonice]

I get the feeling that one of the reasons why they pulled back on assist trophy reveals for the demo is that this game is probably going to have the biggest dream breakers of the whole series. If you've been in Smash speculation circles for long, you know Bomberman, Knuckles, Krystal, and even Sukapon had long histories and the first three have sizable followings that go back over a decade. I think we're in for a lot of gut punches, even more so than Brawl and SSB4. What kind of makes it worse is that Sakurai said there would be roughly 50 in all so mentally counting down will be stress exercise de jour of Ultimate character speculation.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Super random prediction here..

But the final characters I see are..

King K. Rool
Ashley
Bandana Dee
Skull Kid
Geno
Simon Belmont

When you see Super Mario RPG being announced for Nintendo Switch in a Nintendo Direct, expect Geno.

Honestly I thing they'd announce Geno for Smash first and then SMRPG coming for Switch as remake or VC style straight port after.

 

[Dandelionel]

We've been talking about echo fighters for a while, so how about we discuss something a bit different.

What do you guys/gals think about the Vergeben "leak" now that e3 has come and gone? Does your opinion of it now differ from your opinion before e3? (Is he credible or just lucky?)

Personally, I was skeptical of it mostly because it just seemed kinda wish-listy imo. Getting all the characters back from Wii U, as well as Ridley (who, while being my most wanted newcomer at the time, I didn't see as likely at all after Sakurai's comments during Smash 4 speculation), and Simon Belmont and Snake (Konami) was just kinda crazy to me. But after e3, I think Simon Belmont, even without the "leak," seems like a likely third party candidate, especially now Snake is in and Bomberman was deconfirmed. I'm still curious about whether the Minecraft thing is related to an assist trophy or a stage....

In my personal opinion, I don't think he is credible. He only leaked the Ice Climbers, Snake, Simon (uncorfimed), Ridley (which the Resetera mods hinted at first) and that everyone from Smash 4 would come back (I think? I'm not sure on this though). No mention of Daisy or that everyone from the series is here, which were the two things that would have impossible to guess or predict.

Also the fact that he leaked some Castlevania game and he was wrong. Like, to be blunt, I don't expect any new third parties in this game, I feel like they are enough and getting Snake (by popular demand) in this game must have been hell.

 

[Skyblade12]

FYI, guys. That "leak" image from earlier wasn't intended as a leak. The original creator of the image made it as a mockup, and someone else took it and put it on a TV screen and cut the light.

So, if you see it being passed around as a leak, please correct the matter. I know it's already been "debunked" here, but it's being used against the creator's wishes and intended purpose.

 

[Hinata]

Honestly I thing they'd announce Geno for Smash first and then SMRPG coming for Switch as remake or VC style straight port after.

I don't think they've ever announced Smash characters like that. It's always "hey, here's a game that includes a particular character! And hey, guess what else? That character is in Smash!"

See: Rosalina announced for Mario Kart 8 -> Rosalina announced for Smash
Xenoblade Chronicles 3D announced -> Shulk revealed for Smash

Could be misremembering, though.

 

[Wyoming]

Isabelle is the only character people do not want as a fighter so she does not get harmed.

It is a video game character in a video game, fellas. is not scared. I will claw her face off if needed.

 

[Darkraid]

I really think this is how the rest of the roster will turn out:

Simon
Impa
King K Rool
Geno
Decidueye
Captain Toad
Bandana Dee
Dixie - echo
Chrom - echo
Dark Samus - echo
Shadow - echo

DLC

Waluigi
Rex
Spring-man
Shovel Knight
Crash Bandicoot

 

[Pakky]

Isabelle is another hurdle for me, would she just be an echo?

Not bad, but I just don't know of what else she could do.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't think they've ever announced Smash characters like that. It's always "hey, here's a game that includes a particular character! And hey, guess what else? That character is in Smash!"

See: Rosalina announced for Mario Kart 8 -> Rosalina announced for Smash
Xenoblade Chronicles 3D announced -> Shulk revealed for Smash

Could be misremembering, though.

Kinda with reveals from Nintendo were like this more often

 

[Murlough]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Want:
Mimikyu
Ashley
Captain Toad
Elma
Viridi

Likely:
Mimikyu:

Spoiler

second most popular Gen 7 mon in Japan and was marketed right out of the gate. Gamefreak knew what they were doing with him and if a Greninja situation were to happen I can see Mimikyu being at least one of the options. Ghost/Fairy is also a completely brand new typing (Puff doesn't count) that screams potential without even taking into account Mimikyu itself. People think it has no chance are kidding themselves, in my opinion.

Ashley:

Spoiler

most popular character from Warioware other than the main man himself. She oozes potential in a moveset and Sakurai has recognized her popularity in the past.

Captain Toad:

Spoiler

He's popular and a Mario character. Waluigi is out and Daisy is an echo so yeah. I don't know how they would get around the no jumping thing but Sakurai's pretty smart. He could figure something out if he wanted to.

Elma:

Spoiler

Rex and Pyra didn't exist at the time of Smash's initial proposal and Elma is a fairly popular character. Sakurai also really likes Xenoblade and the series has only one fighter so far. Either she's going to be in or Rex/Pyra are DLC.

Viridi:

Spoiler

Popular character. Kid Icarus was Sakurai's thing at the time of her creation iirc and Medusa being her primary competition from the same series as.....an echo? Yeah, I'm willing to bet Viridi is more likely than getting a second Kid Icarus clone.

Also my "wants" and "likelies" are exactly the same because I don't really like getting myself excited over things I don't think can happen.

 

[Arcadenik]

Is it bad that I still think that people are overestimating Isabelle's chances? I know that she didn't appear in the Smash Ultimate E3 build, but I think that in the end, she'll still get the Assist Trophy treatment; it's better than seeing her get mauled by Ridley anyway.

Poor Isabelle.

 

[zauberdragon]

I get that Isabelle is relevant and popular but I’d much prefer Tom Nook. As someone who’s played AC since the GameCube days he better represents the series as a whole. Given Nintendo like to shoehorn Isabelle in (ala mario kart 8) their properties though, she is the much more likely candidate.


Tom Nook is also a villain and we need more villian reps hur hur hur

 

[Pakky]

I get that Isabelle is relevant and popular but I’d much prefer Tom Nook. As someone who’s played AC since the GameCube days he better represents the series as a whole. Given Nintendo like to shoehorn Isabelle in (ala mario kart 8) their properties she is the much more likely candidate.


Tom Nook is also a villain and we need more villian reps hur hur hur

Nook is not a villain he's a responsible business man and a loving father.

 

[MagnesD3]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Want

Banjo Kazooie
Spyro the Dragon
Saki
Paper Mario
Crash Bandicoot

Expect

King K Rool: A lot of the newcomers this time around will be from the smash poll and King K Rool popularity wise was right by Ridley so I imagine it’s time. He also had a mii costume in ssb4 as an acknowledgement of his popularity.

Geno: mentioned by Sakurai multiple times over many years, probably placed high in the polls, clouds in so the relationship with square is solid. Had a mii costume as popularity acknowledgement.

Simon Belmont: the leak for Ridley and snake two unlikely picks had simon belmont on it as well, with one Konami rep and a different Konami franchise assist trophy it seems very possible

Chorus Kids: based upon pretty credible leaks from the smash 4 era it seems this character was close to being included, I imagine the character will be fulfilled now that the 3ds isn’t holding them back

Decidueye: Honestly this could be any of the starters it really depends on who Sakurai thought would make a good fighter, I select decidueye since he has the most popularity of the 3 but I have no doubt we are getting a new Pokemon Character from sun/moon.

 

[zauberdragon]

Nook is not a villain he's a responsible business man and a loving father.

Yeah I never really got the villain label with Nook. Try finding a mortgage provider who gives you literally no time limit to pay it off, or a shop that buys shells you find in the beach. I’m a manager at a supermarket and if someone came in trying to sell apples they’d found in their garden or a fly they’d caught outside we’d probably call the police!

 

[AquaSol]

My top 5 wants:
King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Skull Kid
Ray MK III
Isaac

My top 5 predictions:
King K. Rool: I think that almost everyone expects him. Why else would they suddenly make a character from a bygone era a costume? He always scores high on online polls, and although those may not be the best samples, I still think it's noteworthy.

Dixie Kong: In my eyes, Dixie Kong can get in without King K. Rool, but the other way around isn't possible. I wonder if Sakurai would ignore Dixie Kong if he added K. Rool. She may not be as wanted, but she is still a very popular character who is relevant and easily implementable (Diddy Kong semi-clone or echo).

Elma: Sakurai seems to like Xenoblade, and it was probably too early for Rex and Pyra.

Mimikyu: An Alolan Pokemon who was purposely created and marketed to be popular. Honestly not 100% sure if we're getting a Pokemon newcomer, but if we do, it's him. Sakurai probably knew about the plan behind Mimikyu.

Chorus Kids: People are sleeping on Rhythm Heaven HARD. Sakurai probably told the Rhythm Heaven developers of his intention to add the Chorus Kids to SSB4. I feel any developer - especially smaller ones like them - would be ecstatic. For him to say that, then take them out, then not include them in a sequel unhindered by technical limitations would be a slap in the face. There were the Forbidden 7 in Brawl and Dedede/Mewtwo/Bowser in 64, but they were from huge series that already had playable reps. Rhythm Heaven still has nothing. I question if Sakurai would do that.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

We've been talking about echo fighters for a while, so how about we discuss something a bit different.

What do you guys/gals think about the Vergeben "leak" now that e3 has come and gone? Does your opinion of it now differ from your opinion before e3? (Is he credible or just lucky?)

Personally, I was skeptical of it mostly because it just seemed kinda wish-listy imo. Getting all the characters back from Wii U, as well as Ridley (who, while being my most wanted newcomer at the time, I didn't see as likely at all after Sakurai's comments during Smash 4 speculation), and Simon Belmont and Snake (Konami) was just kinda crazy to me. But after e3, I think Simon Belmont, even without the "leak," seems like a likely third party candidate, especially now Snake is in and Bomberman was deconfirmed. I'm still curious about whether the Minecraft thing is related to an assist trophy or a stage....

He's as always somewhat credible, he's definitely got some legitimate sources, but he's also got some bad ones. I do believe the Simon part of the leak as that was one of his initial claims that came alongside no cuts, ICs and Ridley at E3, but I'm a little bit more cautious about his Minecraft representation claim as it came way later, and with his track record I'm a bit wary of trusting some of the information he seems to have gotten significantly later. I don't really care a whole lot anymore though, the only thing I needed was for the Ridley part to be true lol.

For what it's worth I think people are hugely underselling him getting Ridley right. Yes, there was a bit of teasing by Resetera mods, but it was brushed off by most people as them just messing around (as they occasionally do), by no means were those hints anywhere near strong enough to draw any conclusions from, and it certainly wasn't piggyback material for someone like Vergeben who had a little bit of a reputation (even if a very mixed one). He also got Snake right which was a very bold claim at the time.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Nook is not a villain he's a responsible business man and a loving father.

You know who else is a loving father? Bowser.

I hope you realize people who call Nook a villain are joking.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Just because I'm busy I want to say 2 quick thinks.

Nook is not a villian, he gives you a great loan with no deadline, no credit check, no minimum payments or intrest. If you think he's a villian you just don't know how the real world works.

Isabelle will be fine. She can kick ass. It's also a cartoonish non canon fighting game. Ridley will be mauling a baby Pokemon, so who cares. Tired of seeing that as a reason she won't get in. But watch Sakurai flat out say that's why.

That is all.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't think they've ever announced Smash characters like that. It's always "hey, here's a game that includes a particular character! And hey, guess what else? That character is in Smash!"

See: Rosalina announced for Mario Kart 8 -> Rosalina announced for Smash
Xenoblade Chronicles 3D announced -> Shulk revealed for Smash

Could be misremembering, though.

No, you're basically right. With Smash 4 a lot of the character announcements lined up with releases or news:

Villager- New Leaf
Olimar- Pikmin 3
Luigi- the Year of Luigi
Sonic- Sonic Lost World
Toon Link- Wind Waker HD
Male Wii Fit: Wii Fit U
Rosalina- Playable in Mario Kart 8
Zelda- A Link Between Worlds
Dedede- Kirby Triple Deluxe
Diddy- DK Topical Cheese
Shulk- Xenoblade Chronicles 3D
Duck Hunt- Duck Hunt VC release

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion of the day:

I've never felt that Kid Icarus Uprising needed a sequel.
I wouldn't be against new KIU OAVs though, especially centered on the more eclipsed characters like Medusa and Magnus.

DK Topical Cheese

This has to be a mistype.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think people are REALLY overestimating Geno.

Sure he's been mentioned by Sakurai but he was also rejected twice.

We don't know the reasons why he never happened. They could easily prevent Geno from happening again.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No, you're basically right. With Smash 4 a lot of the character announcements lined up with releases or news:

Villager- New Leaf
Olimar- Pikmin 3
Luigi- the Year of Luigi
Sonic- Sonic Lost World
Toon Link- Wind Waker HD
Male Wii Fit: Wii Fit U
Rosalina- Playable in Mario Kart 8
Zelda- A Link Between Worlds
Dedede- Kirby Triple Deluxe
Diddy- DK Topical Cheese
Shulk- Xenoblade Chronicles 3D
Duck Hunt- Duck Hunt VC release

oh, hello there FMOI. it's been a while :D

Also wonder how much time we'll have to see that happen. If that's the case, Kirby content may be coming sooner than we think

 

[Hinata]

We don't know the reasons why he never happened. They could easily prevent Geno from happening again.

I've said this to a few people, and I could be completely off-base, so don't quote me on this, but I distinctly remember hearing that the reason why Geno never happened is because Square Enix told Sakurai they wanted a Final Fantasy rep in Smash before anything else.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think people are REALLY overestimating Geno.

Sure he's been mentioned by Sakurai but he was also rejected twice.

We don't know the reasons why he never happened. They could easily prevent Geno from happening again.

aren't you the same one who said "Yeah but Ridley was rejected by Sakurai for being too big twice" and I've basically came at every instance and said "actually he's hard to program but nobody's going to want to PR that to a bunch of gamers" and then he actually made it in

also

Spoiler

everyone is kinda overestimating everyone's chances tbqh. the only thing I think has any ground weight right now is some of the missing echo's

edit: our buddy simon belmont has some ground as well, but even then, we've seen leaks be earlier in development before (see: chrom/chorus men for more details)

 

[L9999]

oh something about echo fighters since it was discussed earlier: Yeah, they're not listed as an actual number, but Echo's are still neat and awesome. With Echo's and Alt Costumes, I support any way of getting people's favorite character in. Also, Dark Pit and Pit are literally the same spot on the tier list, but all things considered, Lucina was a pretty big mechanic change to how Marth fundamentally works.

Lucina and Marth play the exact same.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Lucina and Marth play the exact same.

correct and incorrect. Marth does more damage at the tip, Lucina's damage is all the time the same no matter where.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

aren't you the same one who said "Yeah but Ridley was rejected by Sakurai for being too big twice"

I don't think I've ever said that TK.