Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zerp]

hey Fatmanonice if you didn't disappear, remember that time I said Mewtwo could be scrapped due to programming issues and that Wolf would probably make it into Brawl?

Okay, that's it, I'm going to ingrain everything you predict into my memory, you and BluePikmin11 are obviously using forbidden magic and cheating whenever you make your "predictions".
/s

Do you know what's even weirder than Wario speaking full lines?

Wario speaking in French.

DAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EEUUUGHHHEHEHEHEHEAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[RandomAce]

A lot of noise doesn't necessarily equate to a lot of votes. It's best not to assume.

That what I’m asking about.

I want to see which characters are considered popular and compare them to the actual newcomers when this game releases.

 

[Will]

Do you know what's even weirder than Wario speaking full lines?

Wario speaking in French.

Wario has been voicing full lines since like, the very beginning whenever he could. He's way more talkative than the other bros.

 

[MagnesD3]

This is a man who frequently hurts himself due to working too hard and for too long.

We just got a game where we got...

• Literally every veteran
• Mother****ing Ridley
• Almost every stage in the series

And you want to say he likes to hurt fans?

I meant not whoops

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Okay, that's it, I'm going to ingrain everything you predict into my memory, you and BluePikmin11 are obviously using forbidden magic and cheating whenever you make your "predictions".
/s

haha, honestly, it's not too hard. Hand me a roster, I'll evaluate it.

I think the biggest thing people are doing is they're not separating echos and newcomers in their thinking enough. Also, in terms of echoes, they should be investigating other probable alts. I think what's peculiar and not being talked about enough: Meta Ridley, Dark Samus, and Little Mac's other alts (did they all get cut?) are nowhere to be seen and we also already saw a sneak of Alph. A less likely conclusion is that there's more to show than eight costumes, but I don't know why they would go out of their way to hide that much.

I'm wondering if we'll see alts of anyone else (Bowser Jr's Koopalings, Alph, etc) or any clones that aren't echo fighters, along with more echo's.

 

[MainJPW]

Do you know what's even weirder than Wario speaking full lines?

Wario speaking in French.

Wow, the voice fits!

And he's spoken full lines before.

 

[Luminario]

the black cat from Wario Land 4 for smash ultimate:

It can... uh... it can like.... do cat stuff... and do like, like "meow"... and can fight duck hunt... because... is a cat... ok, i have nothing.

It's Final Smash is turning into the Wario version of Princess Shokora and kissing the opponent

Real talk though, Shokora should 100% come back in the Mario spin-offs.

 

[Deleted member]

This is a man who frequently hurts himself due to working too hard and for too long.

We just got a game where we got...

• Literally every veteran
• Mother****ing Ridley
• Almost every stage in the series

And you want to say he likes to hurt fans?

Sakurai does not like to hurt his fans at all.

Sakurai fainted when Melee was finished and had to go to the hospital. That is how hard he worked.

We also got more competitive features to make it more fun for me like wave-landing and nerfing defensive play, as well as unlocking being fun as you have to unlock a lot as well as nice designs.

I am excited for Ultimate.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

We could always use another true blue warrior in Smash. Any more blue character suggestion?

 

[Cosmic77]

Quick question,

But can anyone list off the commonly considered popular characters from the ballot?

And possible curveball ballot newcomers? (Characters that might actually be high on the ballot but weren’t considered popular by most people).

From the top of my head (and in no particular order)...

K. Rool
Bandana Dee
Shantae
Banjo & Kazooie
Shovel Knight
Paper Mario
Impa
Wolf
Ice Climbers
Ridley
Captain Toad
Waluigi
Chrom
Skull Kid
Wolf Link & Midna (or Midna by herself)
Ashley
Magalor
Inklings
Sceptile

I remember seeing these names being thrown around a lot. Might add on to this if I can think of some more.

 

[Will]

We could always use another true blue warrior in Smash. Any more blue character suggestion?

HECTOR WINS AGAIN BABY
EVERY TIME

 

[True Blue Warrior]

From the top of my head (and in no particular order)...

K. Rool
Bandana Dee
Shantae
Banjo & Kazooie
Shovel Knight
Paper Mario
Impa
Wolf
Ice Climbers
Ridley
Captain Toad
Waluigi
Chrom
Skull Kid
Wolf Link & Midna (or Midna by herself)
Ashley
Magalor
Inklings
Sceptile

I remember seeing these names being thrown around a lot. Might add on to this if I can think of some more.

It kinda seemed weird how suddenly commonly suggested Shantae and Shovel Knight were within the community during the ballot period, seeing as they weren't mentioned much before then in Smash speculation.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Why is the blog a day behind?

It tends to do that, actually.

At this point, Sakurai should probably leave FE untouched for a while. I know Smashboards is more accepting of FE characters, but whenever I see people outside this site speculating on who we could get in Smash, there's usually a total lack of enthusiasm for FE. It's weird, because a lot of people truly expect a new FE character, but there's rarely any effort put into what they'd want from said FE character aside from, "I hope it's someone different from a sword user."

If it ever gets to the point where a lot of people are predicting a character they don't like or don't care about, then I think that should be a sign for Sakurai to take a step back and put a focus on popularity over relevancy.

At this point, it's best to focus fan support on IPs that still need a few more representatives.

I think i overestimate the chances that bandana dee have in smash, or to put it in better words, I don't think i should take it as he is already in smash.
Waluigi, Lyn and Bomberman were very popular characters yet they ended up being assist trophies, probably because Sakurai didn't saw much potential, also he added this new system of killing off assist trophies like you would do with characters.
Bandana Dee could easily be an assist trophy, throwing spears everywhere, just like bomberman just spams bombs.
I dunno, maybe Dee doesn't have such a big chance as I been thinking.

On the bright side, you could vouch for Marx, seeing as there's no signs of Sakurai leaving his comfort zone so far.

This is why I don't see Ashley being in.

Excellent, this means Mona could get in!

This is a man who frequently hurts himself due to working too hard and for too long.

We just got a game where we got...

• Literally every veteran
• Mother****ing Ridley
• Almost every stage in the series

And you want to say he likes to hurt fans?

Between this and an incident that recently happened during the development of Battle Princess Madelyn, game development is becoming a hazardous job.

The best part about your post is that Sakurai himself even stated during the Smash Ultimate showcase that the more characters they add, the harder Kirby becomes to develop.

To quote:

"Kirby has a copy ability for every fighter, so the more fighters we have, the more challenging he becomes to develop."

At this rate they'll need an entire team just to work on Kirby alone.

It's Final Smash is turning into the Wario version of Princess Shokora and kissing the opponent

Real talk though, Shokora should 100% come back in the Mario spin-offs.

Same. Having new Wario Lands would be a start, at least.

 

[PeridotGX]

We could always use another true blue warrior in Smash. Any more blue character suggestion?

It isn't happening, but Typhlosion would be great. Kamek too.

 

[Rockaphin]

I agree actually. She is more likely, but I prefer Tom Nook more. He's more Iconic to me. But that's just to me, since I haven't played the newer games. I have no idea who she even is. Does she take on a Tom Nook "Authority" type role?

She plays a larger role in New Leaf than Tom Nook, but she's more of a personal assistant. I too, like Tom Nook more, and I've played the new games. But Isabelle is far more likely (especially since Mr. Nook is still part of Villy's Final Smash).

 

[Zerp]

Sakurai loves his fans... except for those filthy Jigglypuff mains as evidenced by every patch.

haha, honestly, it's not too hard. Hand me a roster, I'll evaluate it.

I think the biggest thing people are doing is they're not separating echos and newcomers in their thinking enough. Also, in terms of echoes, they should be investigating other probable alts. I think what's peculiar and not being talked about enough: Meta Ridley, Dark Samus, and Little Mac's other alts (did they all get cut?) are nowhere to be seen and we also already saw a sneak of Alph. A less likely conclusion is that there's more to show than eight costumes, but I don't know why they would go out of their way to hide that much.

I'm wondering if we'll see alts of anyone else (Bowser Jr's Koopalings, Alph, etc) or any clones that aren't echo fighters, along with more echo's.

Yeah, Meta Ridley's absence from the demo build is... suspicious to say the least. It could just be that it needed more dev time and it wasn't ready for the demo build but it definitely stands out as being odd. Sad part is I noticed the Dark Samus costume's absence (and her assist didn't pop up either, hmmm) but never noticed the Little Mac thing, that's odd, and the weirdest part is that they kept some of the wireframe alts so they're likely not a secret echo or something, but half of the skins are just not there, you'd think they'd all be there but yeah, they're not, it's pretty weird.

Magalor

Watch as he was the number one voted character but never gets in because too many people misspelled his name and the team has no idea who they were trying to vote for.

We could always use another true blue warrior in Smash. Any more blue character suggestion?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

There is a possibility that Spring Man and Rex/Pyra won't make it at all during Smash Ultimate lifespan. DLC in Smash 4 was centered around returning veterans that people wanted back (veterans in general), promotion of a new game (Corrin) and just 3rd party characters (Cloud, Bayonetta, and Ryu). Look how well the fan-base received Corrin. I'm just saying that DLC characters are going to be characters that's going to sell well and should be wanted nevertheless or at least hype. Many people have already voiced that opinion of Spring-Man being one the most boring characters in Arms. I am expecting popular picks, or more 3rd Party.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think people are REALLY overestimating Geno.

Sure he's been mentioned by Sakurai but he was also rejected twice.

We don't know the reasons why he never happened. They could easily prevent Geno from happening again.

Geno wasn't "rejected" in the traditional sense though, the only thing Sakurai said is it "couldn't become a reality". Now there are translation and "who knows what he really meant" issues, but it seems to me to be saying that it just wasn't something in his control, i.e. he just couldn't secure the rights to Geno during the times of Brawl and Smash 4, and getting the rights from SE has always been recognized by everyone as the biggest hurdle to Geno. Yeah Geno was just a side character in one game ever back in 1996, but when Sakurai outright says he wanted to make Geno a playable character since Brawl and recognized that he was a very popular request (which led to the Mii costume being a thing at all), then the approval from Sakurai doesn't get any clearer. Now SE is onboard and already have their biggest character in, it's a lot more feasible than it ever been that Geno could end up in Smash. Geno of course is no lock, SE could still deny him or have demands that can't be met, or simply Sakurai could just pass over him for someone else, but he nonetheless remains a legitimate candidate with more going for him than most character until we see otherwise.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I think i overestimate the chances that bandana dee have in smash, or to put it in better words, I don't think i should take it as he is already in smash.
Waluigi, Lyn and Bomberman were very popular characters yet they ended up being assist trophies, probably because Sakurai didn't saw much potential, also he added this new system of killing off assist trophies like you would do with characters.
Bandana Dee could easily be an assist trophy, throwing spears everywhere, just like bomberman just spams bombs.
I dunno, maybe Dee doesn't have such a big chance as I been thinking.

I'm almost in a similar-ish situation. My roster is filled with a lot of assist trophies being promoted to playable characters but I'm getting to the point where I think actually becoming an assist trophy or a costume actually hurts your chances of getting in the game more than it helps. I believe that they became trophies because there was one huge fundamental flaw Sakurai saw in them wither it be popularity, move set potential, longevity, ect. But I also don't want to touch my roster. I feel as if our predictions that we made closer to when the roster was initially planned will be closer to the truth. Right now people are jumping on too many bandwagons and second guessing themselves which is going to get them further and further away from the real roster.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I just rewatched the Smash Direct of 2014.

First of all.

Damn, I know it's been only 4 years, but it doesn't make me feel younger for sure.

Second off,

It's interesting to look back as to how info were shown to us, I feel like the E3 Smash section definitly took some note from this direct (in particular, the Waluigi plush before assist trophy were shown, wahhh).

Also, you could definitly see some stuff being changed between this direct and the final release of Smash 3DS. I know it's obvious, but it definitly reinforce that Ultimate is still quit early in it's developement in some aspect, so changes are to be expected

In all, I feel like I'm going to rewatch the Smash Wii U Direct too, but not today probably, maybe another day, can't tell when.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yeah, Meta Ridley's absence from the demo build is... suspicious to say the least. It could just be that it needed more dev time and it wasn't ready for the demo build but it definitely stands out as being odd. Sad part is I noticed the Dark Samus costume's absence (and her assist didn't pop up either, hmmm) but never noticed the Little Mac thing, that's odd, and the weirdest part is that they kept some of the wireframe alts so they're likely not a secret echo or something, but half of the skins are just not there, you'd think they'd all be there but yeah, they're not, it's pretty weird.

It's interesting and could all mean many different things - I think, keeping the discussion seperate as well, it's hard to gauge how many echoes there are going to be. Here's what I advise for anyone wanting to do a discussion on echoes:

Create a list similar to https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8sj166/possible_echo_fighters_version_2_featuring_way/ - have it contain all possible clones, from semi clones like Wolf in Brawl, to full costume palette swaps. There will be a lot more to discuss and I'd be willing to even try my hand at a realistic list.

As for newcomers, time for my (conservative) guess! Ya'll are gonna be disappointed,

5. at most.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Quick question,

But can anyone list off the commonly considered popular characters from the ballot?

And possible curveball ballot newcomers? (Characters that might actually be high on the ballot but weren’t considered popular by most people).

The official Ballot results were never published. I think the biggest sample sizes we have though are the one poll Smash Reddit did with several thousand respondents and the one Source Gaming did that mostly focused on Japanese fans. Somebody here probably has the links saved somewhere. The main things I remember is that the poll numbers weren't at all surprising and that ICs, Snake, and Wolf were top ten on both I believe.

 

[cmbsfm]

Looking back at that fake Heroes vs. Villains leak, I feel like if Sakurai was intending to make that the theme of Ultimate, he would have included Heihachi too. Heihachi would have been a good antagonist to Ryu and repped another big franchise at the same time. The Heroes vs. Villains thing is dead now but it was just something I was thinking about.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah I never really got the villain label with Nook. Try finding a mortgage provider who gives you literally no time limit to pay it off, or a shop that buys shells you find in the beach. I’m a manager at a supermarket and if someone came in trying to sell apples they’d found in their garden or a fly they’d caught outside we’d probably call the police!

It's definitely good when you can sell items to make money that you need to pay off a debt.

 

[Idon]

Looking back at that fake Heroes vs. Villains leak, I feel like if Sakurai was intending to make that the theme of Ultimate, he would have included Heihachi too. Heihachi would have been a good antagonist to Ryu and repped another big franchise at the same time. The Heroes vs. Villains thing is dead now but it was just something I was thinking about.

To be fair, the entire Mishima trio are all garbage dirtbags.
The only half-redeemable one is Jin Kazama and he started World War 3 for perspective.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

He's as always somewhat credible, he's definitely got some legitimate sources, but he's also got some bad ones. I do believe the Simon part of the leak as that was one of his initial claims that came alongside no cuts, ICs and Ridley at E3, but I'm a little bit more cautious about his Minecraft representation claim as it came way later, and with his track record I'm a bit wary of trusting some of the information he seems to have gotten significantly later. I don't really care a whole lot anymore though, the only thing I needed was for the Ridley part to be true lol.

For what it's worth I think people are hugely underselling him getting Ridley right. Yes, there was a bit of teasing by Resetera mods, but it was brushed off by most people as them just messing around (as they occasionally do), by no means were those hints anywhere near strong enough to draw any conclusions from, and it certainly wasn't piggyback material for someone like Vergeben who had a little bit of a reputation (even if a very mixed one). He also got Snake right which was a very bold claim at the time.

Yeah I think Vergeben should be given some credit for Ridley. The people at Resetera themselves backed down from Ridley, I distinctly remember the Memoryman post there where he said he talked with Jonneh (the mod who initially teased it) and claimed they came to the conclusion of "the Ridley source isn't reliable so don't expect Ridley". However Vergeben was adamant that Ridley was playable since he first ever mentioned it in a reply to someone asking him about Smash on Reddit and he never backed down from it, even adding onto to the claim that Ridley would be revealed at E3 (to be fair on that one though, he claimed only a single source told him that and it was a source he didn't trust, so he wasn't all in on it and had a out if it didn't happen).

 

[StormC]

Bandana Dee is stupidly popular in Japan. I think his chances are better than most Nintendo newcomers.

 

[Deleted member]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Want:

1. Decidueye
2. Bandana Dee
3. Shovel Knight
4. Isaac
5. Crash Bandicoot

Likely:

1. K. Rool - supposedly did well in the ballot, idk.
2. Rayman - Nintendo had a pretty good relationship with Ubisoft before Kingdom Battle. I'm assuming he did well in the ballot too
3. Geno - Sakurai's boi.
4. Elma - The only character that fits the description of the toy Sakurai bought to use as a reference for his project (which I'm assuming is Smash).
5. Incineroar - Probably the most detailed concept art of all of them, plus he could be a good foil to Greninja in the same vain as Charizard was in Greninja's Sm4sh reveal trailer. Decidueye could work too but I have a feeling that Pokken may have been a consolation prize

 

[N3ON]

Yeah I think Vergeben should be given some credit for Ridley. The people at Resetera themselves backed down from Ridley, I distinctively remember the Memoryman post where he said talked with Jonneh (the mod who initially teased it) and claimed they came to the conclusion of "the Ridley source isn't reliable so don't expect Ridley". However Vergeben was adamant that Ridley was playable since he first ever mentioned it in a reply to someone asking him about Smash on Reddit and he never backed down from it, even adding onto to the claim that Ridley would be revealed at E3 (to be fair on that one though, he claimed only a single source told him that and it was a source he didn't trust, so he wasn't all in on it and had a out if it didn't happen).

I'm all but sure they knew Ridley was happening and it was all backpeddling to extinguish the fire memoryman set.

 

[StormC]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Want
1. King K. Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Bandana Dee
4. Decidueye
5. Dr. Eggman

Likely
1. Simon Belmont: Verge has some credibility, Konami is already in the game, only other Konami possibility is an AT, Sakurai likes Castlevania.
2. King K. Rool: One of, if not the most, highly voted Nintendo newcomer on the ballot from all over the world. Got costume with classic design.
3. Bandana Dee: Reasonably popular in the west, very popular in Japan, has recency and promotion factor.
4. Elma: Perfectly timed with the project proposal, might tie to the toy Sakurai bought, Xenoblade is a growing IP for Nintendo.
5. Chorus Kids: Already considered, Rhythm Heaven is popular in Japan.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I'm all but sure they knew Ridley was happening and it was all backpeddling to extinguish the fire memoryman set.

Perhaps it was and I think that was probably the case, but if you're trying to piggyback off it, I imagine that would shake your conviction in claiming it as a leaker with a reputation, instead of continuing to double down on the Ridley claim and going so far as to claim you have "four separate sources" saying Ridley will be in.

 

[Deleted member]

Bandana Dee is stupidly popular in Japan. I think his chances are better than most Nintendo newcomers.

See, that is why I think he is one of the most likely newcomers alongside King K. Rool.

Bandanna Dee has also been getting more popular in the west and considering he was not seen as an AT in the E3 Demo, his chances are higher than about all newcomers like King K. Rool.

 

[RileyXY1]

See, that is why I think he is one of the most likely newcomers alongside King K. Rool.

Bandanna Dee has also been getting more popular in the west and considering he was not seen as an AT in the E3 Demo, his chances are higher than about all newcomers like King K. Rool.

Just because they're highly demanded does not mean that they are getting in.

 

[Cosmic77]

There is a possibility that Spring Man and Rex/Pyra won't make it at all during Smash Ultimate lifespan. DLC in Smash 4 was centered around returning veterans that people wanted back (veterans in general), promotion of a new game (Corrin) and just 3rd party characters (Cloud, Bayonetta, and Ryu). Look how well the fan-base received Corrin. I'm just saying that DLC characters are going to be characters that's going to sell well and should be wanted nevertheless or at least hype. Many people have already voiced that opinion of Spring-Man being one the most boring characters in Arms. I am expecting popular picks, or more 3rd Party.

Being a third-party does not automatically mean you're going to sell well. Bayonetta was (and still is) a relatively niche IP, and I doubt many people would've recognized her over a majority of the popular Nintendo characters at the time. Plus, quite a few people were bitter that she got in over someone who they thought was more deserving.

Honestly, if Mewtwo wasn't given away for free to so many people, he probably would've raked in the most money for Nintendo. He was the first DLC character, the hype for the character was genuine, and just about everyone knew who he was.

 

[Deleted member]

Just because they're highly demanded does not mean that they are getting in.

I did not say that they were guarnateed.
Being highly demanded does increase your chances as a newcomer.

I am not saying all highly demanded newcomers will be in. In fact there are suprising newcomers and all... but still.

Ridley was highly demanded and he got in. If King K. Rool and Bandanna Dee were among the highest demanded characters and they are both Nintendo as well as King K. Rool getting his Mii costume in Smash 4 and Bandanna Dee being in Sakurai's own game that he developed, than they are more likely than almost all newcomers. I say "almost".

 

[PeridotGX]

Just because they're highly demanded does not mean that they are getting in.

We did just get the ballot, which implies that demand will help characteers this game.. Plus, it's not all Bandana Dee has going for him, unlike a King Krockodile that's on everybody's prediction lists

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm all but sure they knew Ridley was happening and it was all backpeddling to extinguish the fire memoryman set.

What fire? Did he burst into flames when he found out Daisy was going to be announced at E3 2018?

 

[N3ON]

Perhaps it was and I think that was probably the case, but if you're trying to piggyback off it, I imagine that would shake your conviction in claiming it as a leaker with a reputation, instead of continuing to double down on the Ridley claim and going so far as to claim you have "four separate sources" saying Ridley will be in.

I'm not trying to discredit Vergeben, I do think he had a valid source on the Ridley claim, all I'm saying is I think the resetera folks were not unsure of their source(s), they were just trying to put the cat back in the bag. Because if their private conversations were to be believed, they had multiple sources. Ryce's statement about "too much smoke for no fire" heavily implied it.

Jonneh knew but I think at least Emily did as well. Memoryman claimed she did, and while he didn't share anything to prove it, all of his other claims were truthful. I think they reprimanded him before he shared any more. That's when the story changed. Then when they were giving their carefully-worded defences, Emily said she had shared nothing publicly about it. She also knew about other stuff prior to reveal. I think the pieces fit.

I also think they know currently unrevealed characters. But memoryman likely made them a lot more reticent with whom they share info. So for the time being we only have Verg, who I believe has at least one valid source - the Ridley-Prime 4 Bamco one - which iirc that isn't the same one as the Simon leak.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Wanted
1. Shovel Knight
2. Shantae
3. Simon Belmont
4. Mona
5. Dixie Kong

Likely
1. Banjo-Kazooie: Very popular in the West, most likely amongst current Rare mascots, Microsoft's Phil Spencer supports the inclusion.
2. King K. Rool: Has some popularity with the Western fanbase, has a Mii costume with custom textures.
3. Rayman: Smash 4 trophy was made by Ubisoft themselves, Rayman Legends is relevant, Ubisoft is in a very good relationship with Nintendo.
4. Incineroar: Generation VII came out around the time the ballot ended, the starters come with Z-Moves, the most humanoid build amongst said starters.
5. Rex & Pyra: Source game is recent enough that DLC inclusion is a possibility.

 

[StormC]

Generation VII came out around the time the ballot ended

If by "came out around" you mean "came out a full year after."

I'm not sure about a new Pokemon. Pretty much 50/50 on it. If we're getting ~8 newcomers, it's definitely possible. If it's only 5 total, I could see Sakurai neglecting one if he felt bringing back Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu was enough.