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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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**Gilgamesh**

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Being a third-party does not automatically mean you're going to sell well. Bayonetta was (and still is) a relatively niche IP, and I doubt many people would've recognized her over a majority of the popular Nintendo characters at the time. Plus, quite a few people were bitter that she got in over someone who they thought was more deserving.

Honestly, if Mewtwo wasn't given away for free to so many people, he probably would've raked in the most money for Nintendo. He was the first DLC character, the hype for the character was genuine, and just about everyone knew who he was.
To be quire honest; Bayonetta was also a promotional tactic (like Corrin) as well giving the recent news about her data and even if she was the actual ballot winner, she would have made them money away since she made Top 5 (U.S) and Top 1 (Europe) from realizable characters meaning a lot of people voted for in the timeline of her actually being the ballot winner (people's choice).

Nintendo and Sakurai still chose to include THREE 3rd party characters and ONE/TWO promotional characters for DLC. I also argue Cloud raked in the most cash from Nintendo considering how universally popular FF is and how unexpected he was.
 
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Guh-Huzzah!

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All this talk about Isabelle in smash makes me want to make a moveset for her.
Also, imagine if her victory theme was the Dedication Ceremony theme.
 
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N3ON

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What fire? Did he burst into flames when he found out Daisy was going to be announced at E3 2018?
That inferno could be seen from space. :laugh:

But months earlier he also shared that the resetera mods knew Ridley was in the game, and gave a few screenshots of conversations to prove it. No idea how he got his hands on those, though. The mods did quite the job of brushing all that under the carpet, especially since it was on gamefaqs, not resetera, and that story never really broke til Vergeben made similar claims.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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If by "came out around" you mean "came out a full year after." :p

I'm not sure about a new Pokemon. Pretty much 50/50 on it. If we're getting ~8 newcomers, it's definitely possible. If it's only 5 total, I could see Sakurai neglecting one if he felt bringing back Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu was enough.
I meant to put in Geno anyway, but somehow forgot, so eh. What's done is done.
 

StormC

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If Simon is in the game I just want him revealed next so we can put this Verge business behind us and it's all surprises again.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I don't think they've ever announced Smash characters like that. It's always "hey, here's a game that includes a particular character! And hey, guess what else? That character is in Smash!"

See: Rosalina announced for Mario Kart 8 -> Rosalina announced for Smash
Xenoblade Chronicles 3D announced -> Shulk revealed for Smash

Could be misremembering, though.
They did it that way for Duck Hunt and the WiiU port of the original.
 

Wambo

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If Simon is in the game I just want him revealed next so we can put this Verge business behind us and it's all surprises again.
You kidding? Anyone else revealed first besides Simon would disprove the leak. If Simon actually is in the game and the leak is legit, he'll at least be a surprise then.
 

StormC

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You kidding? Anyone else revealed first besides Simon would disprove the leak. If Simon actually is in the game and the leak is legit, he'll at least be a surprise then.
The leak doesn't say Simon is the next reveal, just that he's in the game. Any character could be revealed before Simon and he could still be in it.
 

Jgt044

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You kidding? Anyone else revealed first besides Simon would disprove the leak. If Simon actually is in the game and the leak is legit, he'll at least be a surprise then.
Vergeben didn't say when Simon would be revealed, so he could be revealed whenever. Though, preferably if he's in, I would like him to be revealed soon cause I want to see how Sakurai pulls off a moveset with Simon

Edit: :ultgreninja:'d
 
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UltimateWario

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That inferno could be seen from space. :laugh:

But months earlier he also shared that the resetera mods knew Ridley was in the game, and gave a few screenshots of conversations to prove it. No idea how he got his hands on those, though. The mods did quite the job of brushing all that under the carpet, especially since it was on gamefaqs, not resetera, and that story never really broke til Vergeben made similar claims.
Did we ever learn how all these people came to know Ridley was in the game? Was it just a bunch of people bandwagoning on something they thought was a straight shot? Or did Sakurai phone up these randos like "Hey guys Ridley's in, tease people about it lol". I'm curious how mods on some random forum were in the know.
 

StormC

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If Simon gets in I promise to finally play Super Castlevania IV on my SNES Classic despite only touching it for 5 minutes before.
 

N3ON

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Did we ever learn how all these people came to know Ridley was in the game? Was it just a bunch of people bandwagoning on something they thought was a straight shot? Or did Sakurai phone up these randos like "Hey guys Ridley's in, tease people about it lol". I'm curious how mods on some random forum were in the know.
As far as Jonneh and Emily, they both have existing sources, so I reckon they just learned through their typical means.

I really doubt it was bandwagoning. The resetera mods were the first to bring up Ridley in a serious Smash context in a long time, most had resigned themselves to the fact that it wasn't meant to be. And then the other mods just lent credence to people they believed were credible.
 

Cosmic77

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I'm hoping Simon gets revealed soon too, but not because I want to know if the leak is real or not. I just want to see if Simon will be enough to convince people that not all of the newcomers we get are 100% fanservice characters who scored high in the ballot.
 

StormC

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Did we ever learn how all these people came to know Ridley was in the game? Was it just a bunch of people bandwagoning on something they thought was a straight shot? Or did Sakurai phone up these randos like "Hey guys Ridley's in, tease people about it lol". I'm curious how mods on some random forum were in the know.
Can't speak for this specific instance, but leaks are usually through friends of friends of friends.

The way I remember it being for the ESRB leak, the original ESRB employee showed the pictures with his friend. Then the friend posted them in a group chat, and one of them posted it on /v/. It's rare someone is an industry insider or has direct contact with an industry insider.
 
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ChocolatGelgato

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gotta admit leaks have become a huge guilty pleasure. Something so spicy at seeing people try to predict what's gonna happen, each one being a potential door to the truth (but probably just a pile a **** behind said door). I'm starting to wait for the next leak now to see what they've gotta say.

Sometimes they even have good ideas. I saw one imply Vaati's inclusion, and i was like not gonna happen, but thats a good one props to you didnt think of that
 

papagenos

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Its weird i like leaks, i'm all about speculating over them and stuff, but it can be a bummer when it takes the surprise out of a character reveal. i'll be super happy with Simon Belmont i'm sure but i do wonder what it would have been like if he got revealed without a leak.

the surprise from a leak happens slowly where you begin to trust the leaks legitimacy, it feels like you secretly discovered something new about the game, an actual reveal is a surprise explosion right at that moment, i like both for different reasons i guess.
 

TMNTSSB4

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If Simon gets revealed and:ultpit::ultpalutena:don’t make a Captain N reference (or atleast an event where :ultpit::ultmegaman::ultsamus:have to fight Simon/vice versa)...I will hate everything about his inclusion except the music
 

StormC

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I'm hoping Simon gets revealed soon too, but not because I want to know if the leak is real or not. I just want to see if Simon will be enough to convince people that not all of the newcomers we get are 100% fanservice characters who scored high in the ballot.
Is anybody actually saying that? Inkling already pretty much disproves that (no matter how highly Inkling scored on the ballot they were getting in this game). It's just that people don't expect Ridley to be the only "we added them for the fans" character.
 

Omega Tyrant

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I'm not trying to discredit Vergeben, I do think he had a valid source on the Ridley claim, all I'm saying is I think the resetera folks were not unsure of their source(s), they were just trying to put the cat back in the bag. Because if their private conversations were to be believed, they had multiple sources. Ryce's statement about "too much smoke for no fire" heavily implied it.

Jonneh knew but I think at least Emily did as well. Memoryman claimed she did, and while he didn't share anything to prove it, all of his other claims were truthful. I think they reprimanded him before he shared any more. That's when the story changed. Then when they were giving their carefully-worded defences, Emily said she had shared nothing publicly about it. She also knew about other stuff prior to reveal. I think the pieces fit.

I also think they know currently unrevealed characters. But memoryman likely made them a lot more reticent with whom they share info. So for the time being we only have Verg, who I believe has at least one valid source - the Ridley-Prime 4 Bamco one - which iirc that isn't the same one as the Simon leak.
Yeah I'm in agreement it was probably just a public show to "put out the fire" of attention, but nonetheless it is what people outside the circle saw publicly, and all that people can see at face value is that they were backing down, while no one outside the circle could definitively argue if they were serious or not one way or the other. So trying to piggyback off them with Ridley was a risk, especially given Ridley's history in Smash and all that.

When it comes to Vergeben's claimed sources, yeah his claimed Bamco source just said Ridley. However two of his other claimed sources said Ridley, Snake, and no cuts would happen, which are the ones claiming Belmont (and one of them claiming Minecraft content). Now whether they (or Vergeben if he's just making it up) just got lucky with Ridley, Snake, and no cuts remains to be seen, but all individually were stuff a lot of people didn't think would happen, so it's looking in the right direction as of now, though it certainly wasn't impossible to guess them all and thus Belmont + Minecraft content could just end up not happening.
 
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ChocolatGelgato

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Yeah the worst leaks are the real ones, that defuse all your interest in what's gonna happen, I imagine everyone would have went wild if duck hunt was actually only known about in the final release of 3ds. The Vergebent guy is good because he's hiding most of the info (Intentionally or not)
 

CatRaccoonBL

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If Simon is in the game I just want him revealed next so we can put this Verge business behind us and it's all surprises again.
I disagree.

I have nothing against Simon, and if he is in and was revealed during e3 I think everything would be fine, but I just don't like the idea of having to wait potentially 2 months just for him and then have to wait another 2 months just for the next character. If the idea of simon never got planted idea into our heads, he probably would be more exciting. He would come out of nowhere at that point and that would be exciting. But I'm not really feeling it right now.

Not to mention he does nothing for speculation. Someone like King K Rool could show that we could be getting a lot of popular picks. Bandana Waddle Dee would disprove a lot of things people believed, (like how he is just an enemy, Sakurai isn't putting anything from the modern kirby games, etc), someone like Elma could show they are still going the recentcy route like smash 4. Now of course it wouldn't show that everything is 100% going that way but it could be something new to speculate on.

Simon, being a guest character, just exist really. He doesn't prove or disprove anything because guest characters essentially exists as exceptions already.

Certainly, he would be a cool character, and I'm pretty sure plenty of people would be excited such as Castlevania fans. But I dunno, I kind just want to see other characters at this point. Now of course, if he is in the game he has to be revealed at some point. It would only prolong the evitable.

Ultimately I would be happy if he was in but not really excited.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Is anybody actually saying that? Inkling already pretty much disproves that (no matter how highly Inkling scored on the ballot they were getting in this game). It's just that people don't expect Ridley to be the only "we added them for the fans" character.
While I'm not saying every character will be from the ballot, you can't say the three we have aren't incredibly popular and would have done well on the ballot. Yes Inkling was a shoo in but they were a shoo in because they were so popular. Inkling doesn't equal random retro or historical picks and such.

Edit: I feel I didn't make myself clear in the right way as I wrote this quickly. I mean that you can't seperate Inkling's popularity from it's success. So if we get Henry Flemming or whatever his name from Code Name Steam that would be an example of a new IP that could get a rep that is not at all a popular pick. And again I don't think every newcomer in the game will be popular/ballot pick. Just most (especially echoes).
 
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Jak_spoon

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I'm hoping Simon gets revealed soon too, but not because I want to know if the leak is real or not. I just want to see if Simon will be enough to convince people that not all of the newcomers we get are 100% fanservice characters who scored high in the ballot.
I think the ballot honestly told Sakurai nothing. Think about it. Many people say "oh the ballot showed Sakurai that vets were popular and that's why he brought them back" No, Sakurai already knew this this and he started that work with the DLC. If anything this game is a giant continuation of where Sakurai left off on his work with Smash 4. The Fan polls also don't show us anything new and have loads of bias in them. A huge majority of the characters that are in the polls are essentially the same characters that were in the Brawl polls that didn't get in. Also many of our polls miss out on characters people didn't think had a chance like Zelda newcomers. The only plus side this new poll has is that it dropped some bandwagon characters but really thats it. There isnt a lot of good data in it in my opinion.
 

papagenos

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I'm hoping Simon gets revealed soon too, but not because I want to know if the leak is real or not. I just want to see if Simon will be enough to convince people that not all of the newcomers we get are 100% fanservice characters who scored high in the ballot.
I do think it will be majority fan service ballot characters but not ENTIRELY:

characters like simon belmont (our likely new third party rep) mach rider/excite biker (retro rep) decidueye/mimikyu/whoever (a pokemon newcomer) elma (well timed xenoblade newcomer) chorus kids/hanafuda card rep/something else (some left field sakurai rep) are all pretty likely, i just think with not too many more newcomers left and the ballot now basically confirmed to have been for ultimate more than anything else, its likely we will get like one or two of those non-ballot reps and then the rest all fan service ballot choices.

Ridley/Inkling/Daisy/Snake...actually ALL returning vets, feel like they have the ballot backing them so it just seems to be whats happening this game.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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Imdb isn't always credible, so this may not be true, but on Smash Bros. Ultimates Imdb, it says Tabuu will be in this game.
I also found the Chorus Men there too.
 
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StormC

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I think the ballot honestly told Sakurai nothing. Think about it. Many people say "oh the ballot showed Sakurai that vets were popular and that's why he brought them back" No, Sakurai already knew this this and he started that work with the DLC. If anything this game is a giant continuation of where Sakurai left off on his work with Smash 4. The Fan polls also don't show us anything new and have loads of bias in them. A huge majority of the characters that are in the polls are essentially the same characters that were in the Brawl polls that didn't get in. Also many of our polls miss out on characters people didn't think had a chance like Zelda newcomers. The only plus side this new poll has is that it dropped some bandwagon characters but really thats it. There isnt a lot of good data in it in my opinion.
1.8 million votes is not "nothing." Come on son.

We're still waiting on that Zelda newcomer, by the way. Any day now...
 

CatRaccoonBL

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I think the ballot honestly told Sakurai nothing. Think about it. Many people say "oh the ballot showed Sakurai that vets were popular and that's why he brought them back" No, Sakurai already knew this this and he started that work with the DLC. If anything this game is a giant continuation of where Sakurai left off on his work with Smash 4. The Fan polls also don't show us anything new and have loads of bias in them. A huge majority of the characters that are in the polls are essentially the same characters that were in the Brawl polls that didn't get in. Also many of our polls miss out on characters people didn't think had a chance like Zelda newcomers. The only plus side this new poll has is that it dropped some bandwagon characters but really thats it. There isnt a lot of good data in it in my opinion.
So then what was the point of having it? If it means nothing then why make it a big event?
 

Omega Tyrant

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Can't speak for this specific instance, but leaks are usually through friends of friends of friends.

The way I remember it being for the ESRB leak, the original ESRB employee showed the pictures with his friend. Then the friend posted them in a group chat, and one of them posted it on /v/. It's rare someone is an industry insider or has direct contact with an industry insider.
In the case of the Ninka Kiwi leak that predated the ESRB leak, it was Ninka having a friend (who was named Shun here) that had a friend who playtested the game, and the playtester knew the entire roster before E3 2014 (so it is certainly possible we could get an entire roster leak at this time, which I seen some people claiming can't happen "this soon"). Speaking of fake leakers, I'm surprised none of them ever go with the "I was a playtester/knew a playtester!" angle, as from connections with a playtester we knew of Smash 4's remaining roster over a month before the ESRB leak happened, and at least one of Brawl's confirmed leakers was a playtester himself.
 
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SlickWylde

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If Simon gets in I promise to finally play Super Castlevania IV on my SNES Classic despite only touching it for 5 minutes before.
He's not getting in. I made sure of it. *Hides evidence of blackmail*
 

Cutie Gwen

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So then what was the point of having it? If it means nothing then why make it a big event?
You're assuming that had the Ballot shown nothing new to Sakurai, he'd have known that prior to making it. The hypothetical scenario Jak is suggesting is that Sakurai looked at the results and went "Huh, these are all the popular picks I expected, nothing new or surprising", meaning he wouldn't know beforehand obviously as he isn't a time traveler
 

PlayerOneTyler

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If Simon gets in I promise to finally play Super Castlevania IV on my SNES Classic despite only touching it for 5 minutes before.
You're doing better than I am. I've never even played a single Castlevania. I really need to get some use out of my SNES classic, too.
 

Thirdkoopa

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the ballot probably told Sakurai a lot but it's not the end-all-be-all for character requests. Other places to keep in mind

-Nintendo browses a lot of places
-Nintendo also runs a lot of polls behind their characters
-Up until 4 months before Brawl came out in Japan, Nintendo actually had an official forum that monitored a lot of popularity in places people wouldn't quite expect
-The letters handed to Sakurai


just to get started and name a few.
 

GaroMaster

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I get the feeling that one of the reasons why they pulled back on assist trophy reveals for the demo is that this game is probably going to have the biggest dream breakers of the whole series. If you've been in Smash speculation circles for long, you know Bomberman, Knuckles, Krystal, and even Sukapon had long histories and the first three have sizable followings that go back over a decade. I think we're in for a lot of gut punches, even more so than Brawl and SSB4. What kind of makes it worse is that Sakurai said there would be roughly 50 in all so mentally counting down will be stress exercise de jour of Ultimate character speculation.
This is how speculation feels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCeg9lWMIME
So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.
Want:
1.) Rayman
2.) King K. Rool
3.) Banjo-Kazooie
4.) Dixie Kong
5.) Dr. Eggman

Likely Predictions:
1.) Elma- Given the timing surrounding X's release which was around the time the first project plan was finalized, I feel like Elma is a safe bet. She's from a relevant game and her competition, Rex & Pyra, probably came too late to be considered for the base game.
2.) Gen 7 Pokemon- Another safe prediction on my part, but there is precident for it. It could be another Greninja situation where Sakurai reserves a spot for a new Pokemon and gets concept art for it. As for who, I could see it being either Mimikyu or Decidueye, but I could be wrong. Given the limited amount of newcomers that they can make, I also would not be surprised if Sakurai only added in the veteran Pokemon and that would be it. Could go either way.
3.) Chorus Men- Rhythm Heaven is honestly the only new Nintendo series that is not a retro that has a pretty good chance for this game. Megamix came out in Japan in June 2015, which would make it a recent game by the time the project plan came around. Besides, we do know some RH content was found in Smash 4's files, so I could very easily see Sakurai revisit the idea.
4.) King K. Rool- It's a dangerous gamble to group your wants in the same category as your predictions, but the DK series is one of the few franchises out there that covers both relevancy and fan demand in the form of Dixie Kong and K. Rool. Although the sensible choice is Dixie since she's more recent and has a similar build, I can't imagine Sakurai passing up K. Rool. We may not have data on the Ballot, but K. Rool scoring in the top 10 isn't that far out there. He's a villain, a heavy, and most of all, another DK character. In a perfect world, we'd get both Dixie and K. Rool, but if I had to go with one, it would have to be the Kremling King.
5.) Heihachi- I almost went with Simon Belmont and while I do think he will happen, I feel like people are sleeping HARD on Heihachi. For starters, Tekken (along with Resident Evil and Castlevania) is one of the last Japanese series yet to be in Smash that has a ton of influence and is globally well-known. Not only did Tekken help shape the 3D fighting game, but it's the best selling fighting game series, period. Better than Street Fighter and Smash itself, actually. The fact that Namco has been a good third party partner for Nintendo and has developed both Pokken and Smash Ultimate is just icing on the cake. The only major hurdle I can see with Heihachi's inclusion is that Sakurai stated he had trouble implementing his moveset. However, much like Chorus Men, I could see Sakurai revisiting Heihachi and making him work. Whether it's in the base game or as DLC, I think Sakurai will find a way to make Heihachi happen.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I have realized that I should be grateful for Lyn being in Smash in any physical shape and form. Lyndis not being playable and instead an assist is WAY better than ending up with a fate Eliwood and Hector get to have.
 

Omega Tyrant

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I think the ballot honestly told Sakurai nothing. Think about it. Many people say "oh the ballot showed Sakurai that vets were popular and that's why he brought them back" No, Sakurai already knew this this and he started that work with the DLC. If anything this game is a giant continuation of where Sakurai left off on his work with Smash 4. The Fan polls also don't show us anything new and have loads of bias in them. A huge majority of the characters that are in the polls are essentially the same characters that were in the Brawl polls that didn't get in. Also many of our polls miss out on characters people didn't think had a chance like Zelda newcomers. The only plus side this new poll has is that it dropped some bandwagon characters but really thats it. There isnt a lot of good data in it in my opinion.
It can show Sakurai that certain characters are a lot more in demand than he thought they were, especially the older characters who haven't been on the forefront of gaming in a while like K. Rool and Isaac. It also certainly could have influenced all the veterans being brought back as top priority if he saw them dominating the Ballot over newcomer choices (top priority being the key word here, Sakurai always tries to bring back everyone he can but before would shunt the veterans he saw as most expendable to the low priority bracket of characters and cut them if needed to meet developmental demands).
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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You're doing better than I am. I've never even played a single Castlevania. I really need to get some use out of my SNES classic, too.
I beat some Castlevanias, including IV, so it would be wise to fix that.

the ballot probably told Sakurai a lot but it's not the end-all-be-all for character requests. Other places to keep in mind

-Nintendo browses a lot of places
-Nintendo also runs a lot of polls behind their characters
-Up until 4 months before Brawl came out in Japan, Nintendo actually had an official forum that monitored a lot of popularity in places people wouldn't quite expect
-The letters handed to Sakurai


just to get started and name a few.
Not to mention that being limited to Japan would never inform them of fan picks like Shantae, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno and so forth.
 
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