Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ReeseBalaski]

Speaking of Final Fantasy, I hope there's more FF music in Ultimate. The fact that One Winged Angel of all things didn't make it in Smash 4 is criminal.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Animal Crossing has a lot of material that hasn't been tapped. Fruit, fish, bugs, the freakin' leaves that can turn into everything from vases to baby grand pianos, flowers, etc. I think people underestimate what all they could do with Isabelle because, honestly, Villager mostly just uses the basic tools from the games and stuff virtually no one predicted like weed pulling and twirling a stick. Seriously, though... Animal Crossing is probably one of the most pacifist Nintendo franchises and yet Villager has a move where he FELLS A FULL GROWN TREE ON YOU. That's brilliant, hilarious, and one of many subtle reminders to not take Sakurai's creativity for granted with these sorts of things.

 

[Vickand]

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Want:
1.Anna (Fire Emblem)
2.Bandana Dee
3.Paper Mario
4.Capt. Toad
5.Henry Fleming

Honorable mention goes to Feraligatr just beacause I don't think this awesome pokemon has a chance.

Likely:
Bandana Dee: Popular character, obvious Kirby rep.

Ashley: Popular character that could have a very interesting moveset.

Elma: With Xenoblade growing in popularity it's likely it gets a new rep and because of timing she is the logical option.

Decidueye/Incineroar/Lycanroc/Mimikyu: Obligatory Pokemon rep. Decideuye and Incineroar could be the same case of "decided because the design" like Greninja. Lycanroc and Mimikyu could have been pushed by GF.

K. Rool: A popular character that probably placed high in the ballot.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I get the feeling that one of the reasons why they pulled back on assist trophy reveals for the demo is that this game is probably going to have the biggest dream breakers of the whole series. If you've been in Smash speculation circles for long, you know Bomberman, Knuckles, Krystal, and even Sukapon had long histories and the first three have sizable followings that go back over a decade. I think we're in for a lot of gut punches, even more so than Brawl and SSB4. What kind of makes it worse is that Sakurai said there would be roughly 50 in all so mentally counting down will be stress exercise de jour of Ultimate character speculation.

I kind of expect this to go together with any possible newcomer to each franchise be limited to just one this time, depending on how strong the statement about "fewer newcomers" in this installment might be.

So probably if say, K.Rool makes it in the game, Dixie's probably out or even put in as an Echo due how the time and resources for newcomers would rather be used on the top fan favorite candidates from other franchises in the Smash Ballot, as to please the big and active supporter communities over these years.

 

[Darkraid]

He's as always somewhat credible, he's definitely got some legitimate sources, but he's also got some bad ones. I do believe the Simon part of the leak as that was one of his initial claims that came alongside no cuts, ICs and Ridley at E3, but I'm a little bit more cautious about his Minecraft representation claim as it came way later, and with his track record I'm a bit wary of trusting some of the information he seems to have gotten significantly later. I don't really care a whole lot anymore though, the only thing I needed was for the Ridley part to be true lol.

For what it's worth I think people are hugely underselling him getting Ridley right. Yes, there was a bit of teasing by Resetera mods, but it was brushed off by most people as them just messing around (as they occasionally do), by no means were those hints anywhere near strong enough to draw any conclusions from, and it certainly wasn't piggyback material for someone like Vergeben who had a little bit of a reputation (even if a very mixed one). He also got Snake right which was a very bold claim at the time.

The reset teasing of Ridley meant nothing because they admitted to be just trolling.

I think vergeben could have a bad source for simon.

Or simon could very well be playable

 

[L9999]

correct and incorrect. Marth does more damage at the tip, Lucina's damage is all the time the same no matter where.

No **** Sherlock, everyone knows that. I am talking about real gameplay applications. Lucina and Marth both use Jab for the same combos (Jab -> DB, Jab -> Jab, Jab -> FTilt, Jab -> Fair), both use DB to punish, both use Uair and UTilt for strings, both use DThrow for the same followups, both have rage UThrow at high %, both space around with the same moves and edgeguard with the same moves. Their damage output isn't particularly different either. If you play Ma4th you play Lucina and viceversa.

 

[Zeox]

The only new character from FE that I see happening is Chrom as a fast echo character, mostly for what Sakurai stated (not that it couldn't change his mind).
In my opinion franchises that has only 2 reps should get at least one new rep, third is the magic number, specially if those franchises has been in smash since the beginning.

 

[Arcadenik]

No, you're basically right. With Smash 4 a lot of the character announcements lined up with releases or news:

Villager- New Leaf
Olimar- Pikmin 3
Luigi- the Year of Luigi
Sonic- Sonic Lost World
Toon Link- Wind Waker HD
Male Wii Fit: Wii Fit U
Rosalina- Playable in Mario Kart 8
Zelda- A Link Between Worlds
Dedede- Kirby Triple Deluxe
Diddy- DK Topical Cheese
Shulk- Xenoblade Chronicles 3D
Duck Hunt- Duck Hunt VC release

And now Zelda is based on the Zelda from ALBW (and ALTTP) in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

my main point was more emphasizing how, at this point on-wards, for most characters it's going to be a "not a priority" thing.

I don't think I've ever said that TK.

not quite what I said, but close. hi.

I kinda got bored of looking into "But Sakurai said ___" as a reason after a while. We know the legal rights access to Square is around, so really the only possibilities are either A. There's not enough time to include him/lesser priority B. square-enix doesn't want to. either of the two wouldn't shock me, especially B. we have enough evidence to presume why he got rejected from Brawl (everyone grossly overestimated the amount of third-party contact back then, myself included) and contact with SE was only really established post smash 4's release

Come to think of it, actually, I do wonder with those mii costumes. Will they stay locked onto the Wii U/3DS?

 

[JayJay55]

It’s interesting to see these echo debates. There really are points for both sides here.

One one hand, the legitimization of clones has caused a massive explosion in popularity for Shadow, Impa, Dark Samus, Chrom, etc - characters who could easily be considered as clones.

On the other hand, these characters have some popularity in their own right, so they could easily be different from their parent. But they may not be popular enough to be focused on as an individual.

Seeing arguments about “X character wouldn’t work as an echo because of move Y” really isn’t a valid argument: it’s more a question of whether the character should be a clone or not in Smash. Look at Daisy - she doesn’t float or pull turnips or use Toads. Pittoo favors his staff for more than a single move, and Lucina’s fighting style in game is not Marth’s. But if it weren’t for the fact that they were easy clones, they wouldn’t be in.

On top of that, a character in another slot does still make you play as them to unlock everything, and will increase the number of All-Star fights. So, are the characters we propose also relevant enough to merit a new slot, but not to merit a fully original moveset? This brings the example of what makes an Alph vs a Daisy vs a Falco.

I think a lot of arguments right now focus on “Characters shouldn’t share slots because they have fewer palette swaps so we need more echoes” and “This character who could be an easy echo deserves a full moveset” when they’re not as iconic as others. I tend to think pessimistically and see more of “are they important enough to Sakurai to get it?”

For example, I don’t know if the Shadow question is “Will he have Chaos Control?” It may be more “Will he be black Sonic, or have Chaos Control as an assist? If he’s in.”

If we’ve got a bunch of characters who are really popular now because of the echo potential, that doesn’t really offer them unique movesets. Look how long it took Ganondorf to use his sword, after all.

Just thinking off the top of my head...

This is really how I feel about the whole situation concerning echoes. Before they were even named echoes I was never against the concept as a whole. I'm just more concerned about how lenient people are about giving it to characters ever since the echo label came into fruition. In all honesty, if push comes to shove and its the only feasible way to get a character in and it makes people happy so be it.

So, just a random question for all.. since we all love these.

Name 5 characters you want, and name 5 characters you think are likely. And name a reason why you think those characters are likely.

Wants:
King K. Rool
Dixie
[The following are just fill characters that I'm interested in to seeing, but don't necessarily want]
Agumon
Meowth
Dark Samus

Likely:
King K. Rool - His large following and presence with in the community make him seem like he's extremely likely. But I won't keep any high exceptions things could blow up in our faces much like Pre-release Smash 4 with Ridley.
Bandanna Dee - He's more prominent in the recent Kirby games and has a decent sized support base to go along with him.
Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu - I can't really pinpoint which of these would be likely but if we are getting a Pokemon newcomer it can see it being out of these 3.
Elma - Been seeing her mentioned a lot lately, more so than Rex/Pyra, I've no data on it to say definitively but it seems she would be the more likely pick.
Geno - I mean I'm probably overestimating how Sakurai truly feels about Geno, but I know there are a lot of fans that want him in, Mii costumes don't mean much in the grand scheme, but his mere acknowledgement sure does help.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I do think there are expectations that will be broken this time. For reference, I have nothing against ANY of the following characters/ideas, but I'm just saying what I'm thinking.

First of all, there are 30 Assist Trophies that we know of. The Direct stated that there are "over 50 Assist Trophies in the game". If it were more than 60, it would have said, "More than 60", so going off of that, I'm going to think we have 21-29 left to see. That's plenty opportunity for a number of characters to be assigned that role. Shadow, Ashley, Isabelle, and several others could easily be assigned that role despite their popularity. During the Smash 4 days, Isaac from Golden Sun was a huge request, yet was actually cut from the Assist Trophy list.

Sakurai mentioned the change he made to Wii Fit Trainer because of a request from the developers. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the developers of Animal Crossing would maybe...NOT want their mascot, Isabelle, put in particular situations. Now, I'm not saying it's a reason she wouldn't be in necessarily, but I could see it happening. That comic strip earlier is funny, but I think there's food for thought there.

Here is the Assist Trophy video listing all of the confirmed Assist Trophies thus far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XonAjPlq-8&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=iV0qwCEMDvbDeGgq-6

I expect great stuff from this game, and despite the way some may take my comments toward any particular character, I'm quite open minded to anything once I get a chance to play them. I simply DO think there's a tendency to double down on a character being in, and that doesn't always lead to the result we think.

After all, last time this site was absolutely sure K.Rool and Ridley were in the game. Now, the characters that are referenced are Isabelle, Ashley, and a few others. Popularity doesn't necessarily dictate the roster entirely.

Being an Assist Trophy doesn't mean you're absolutely playable material. It means you've been an Assist Trophy in Super Smash Bros. I believe the only two AT's or Pokeballs to become playable are Little Mac and Charizard. To me, that seems more like an exception than a rule.

In some cases, I'm hoping I'm proven wrong.

 

[P.Kat]

No, you're basically right. With Smash 4 a lot of the character announcements lined up with releases or news:

Villager- New Leaf
Olimar- Pikmin 3
Luigi- the Year of Luigi
Sonic- Sonic Lost World
Toon Link- Wind Waker HD
Male Wii Fit: Wii Fit U
Rosalina- Playable in Mario Kart 8
Zelda- A Link Between Worlds
Dedede- Kirby Triple Deluxe
Diddy- DK Topical Cheese
Shulk- Xenoblade Chronicles 3D
Duck Hunt- Duck Hunt VC release

This is good for all of us, I'm personally hoping for good things for August 9.

 

[Fatmanonice]

oh, hello there FMOI. it's been a while :D

Also wonder how much time we'll have to see that happen. If that's the case, Kirby content may be coming sooner than we think

Hey man, congrats on Daroach by the way. It's not Smash but being playable in a canon Kirby game is still a big deal. Still waiting on them to formally reveal "the third character of wave 2" because, aside from Geno, they're the Nintendo character I've wanted to see return in a meaningful way for the longest time.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I do think there are expectations that will be broken this time. For reference, I have nothing against ANY of the following characters/ideas, but I'm just saying what I'm thinking.

First of all, there are 30 Assist Trophies that we know of. The Direct stated that there are "over 50 Assist Trophies in the game". If it were more than 60, it would have said, "More than 60", so going off of that, I'm going to think we have 21-29 left to see. That's plenty opportunity for a number of characters to be assigned that role. Shadow, Ashley, Isabelle, and several others could easily be assigned that role despite their popularity. During the Smash 4 days, Isaac from Golden Sun was a huge request, yet was actually cut from the Assist Trophy list.

Sakurai mentioned the change he made to Wii Fit Trainer because of a request from the developers. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the developers of Animal Crossing would maybe...NOT want their mascot, Isabelle, put in particular situations. Now, I'm not saying it's a reason she wouldn't be in necessarily, but I could see it happening. That comic strip earlier is funny, but I think there's food for thought there.

Here is the Assist Trophy video listing all of the confirmed Assist Trophies thus far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XonAjPlq-8&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=iV0qwCEMDvbDeGgq-6

I expect great stuff from this game, and despite the way some may take my comments toward any particular character, I'm quite open minded to anything once I get a chance to play them. I simply DO think there's a tendency to double down on a character being in, and that doesn't always lead to the result we think.

After all, last time this site was absolutely sure K.Rool and Ridley were in the game. Now, the characters that are referenced are Isabelle, Ashley, and a few others. Popularity doesn't necessarily dictate the roster entirely.

Being an Assist Trophy doesn't mean you're absolutely playable material. It means you've been an Assist Trophy in Super Smash Bros. I believe the only two AT's or Pokeballs to become playable are Little Mac and Charizard. To me, that seems more like an exception than a rule.

In some cases, I'm hoping I'm proven wrong.

this post would be much longer if you were around during brawl speculation but amen

something that'll be lost in translation to my post to Swamp Sensei but the point I was making wasn't "Geno's some uberly likely candidate" it's "When you think about it, we really have almost nothing to go off of and this whole speculation is picking straws"

and this is coming from someone who was VERY used to picking straws to guess the Brawl and Smash 4 roster.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Lucina and Marth play the exact same.

That was only up until the patch that changed shield mechanics so that Marth was only safer than Lucina when he hit with the sweetspot of his sword. Up until that time, Marth was safer no matter what.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No **** Sherlock, everyone knows that. I am talking about real gameplay applications. Lucina and Marth both use Jab for the same combos (Jab -> DB, Jab -> Jab, Jab -> FTilt, Jab -> Fair), both use DB to punish, both use Uair and UTilt for strings, both use DThrow for the same followups, both have rage UThrow at high %, both space around with the same moves and edgeguard with the same moves. Their damage output isn't particularly different either. If you play Ma4th you play Lucina and viceversa.

The funny is despite your claims not being all that wrong, there are matchups Lucina's better in than Marth and vice versa

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The funny is despite your claims not being all that wrong, there are matchups Lucina's better in than Marth and vice versa

thank you. my point there was indicating that even though echo's are mostly a 1:1, there's no information indicating that we can't see a more gimmick/mechanic breaking character than that., or at least one that's just as much

 

[Deleted member]

Animal Crossing has a lot of material that hasn't been tapped. Fruit, fish, bugs, the freakin' leaves that can turn into everything from vases to baby grand pianos, flowers, etc. I think people underestimate what all they could do with Isabelle because, honestly, Villager mostly just uses the basic tools from the games and stuff virtually no one predicted like weed pulling and twirling a stick. Seriously, though... Animal Crossing is probably one of the most pacifist Nintendo franchises and yet Villager has a move where he FELLS A FULL GROWN TREE ON YOU. That's brilliant, hilarious, and one of many subtle reminders to not take Sakurai's creativity for granted with these sorts of things.

Funny thing is that Charizard can now fly ( He could not in Gen 1, but who cares.... ) and his recovery is a lot worse than Villager's recovery.

Like Villager just wears three balloons and a helmet and that boy can almost make it back whenever he is being gimped. Like three balloons.

I know Balloon Trip is based off of Balloon Fight and that the Balloon Fighters can fly, but it is still funny that Villager can go that far.

Sakurai and his team are creative and fun.

Good post!

 

[Zeox]

the black cat from Wario Land 4 for smash ultimate:

It can... uh... it can like.... do cat stuff... and do like, like "meow"... and can fight duck hunt... because... is a cat... ok, i have nothing.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

hey Fatmanonice if you didn't disappear, remember that time I said Mewtwo could be scrapped due to programming issues and that Wolf would probably make it into Brawl?

and how everyone yelled and I was actually right?

(i'm still shocked that I was right on both of accounts)

brawl speculation was good times

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think you guys are looking into lore way too much. I agree sakurai likes to portray characters as they are in their games if he can help it, but the fact is that shadow CAN and HAS done everything sonic does here in smash.

If "this doesnt represent how they could actually fight/this represents what they are known for" was as important as you guys seem to think, none of the echoes we have now would be echoes.

Dark Pit is known for his use of the staff and other weapons he uses in uprising. I cant even remember seeing him use silver bow prominently at all in the game. But here he is, an echo, because he is perfectly capable of copying pit DESPITE the fact that he does not use the same weapons as pit. Completely disregarding his potential and representation outside of taunts etc.

Everyone swore up and down daisy would focus on athleticism and flower power, but here we are with a peach echo. This happened because it's possible (I guess) to do everything peach can do. Once again, despite her potential to do all these things and represent her uniqueness, we got an echo tha can work.

Lucina, for whatever reason, uses a two handed sword in the same style of (one handed style) marth. There have been plenty of posts at this point that explain how absurd it is that she could even copy marths fighting style based on the lore of her game. Again, here we are with a character that does what another character does because it works.

At this point you have to see a trend. Echoes dont have to portray a character down to the tee in its moveset. So long as the character's personality is prevalent in its taunts, victory animations, voice lines, and minute differences represent the character they are fair game to be an echo.

I think boxing yourself in to only seeing or accepting things a certain way is the quickest way to disappoint yourself. Do I want shadow to be an echo? No, I would prefer a semiclone that doesnt revolve around spamming spindash and spring in neutral, not to mention he's been shown doing all kinds of cool and unique things. However, I do see that if push comes to shove, yes shadow can be an echo and it would make 10x more sense than the other echoes we have now. To simply denounce the possibility because you want something more, is foolish. It's okay to prefer something, just don't forget it can easily (and is more likely) to go the other way.

Yes to all this, I have to keep reiterating; what makes an ideal clone/Echo/alt-costume candidate isn't what makes most sense canon-wise, but simply what works best mechanically. If you take a character and slap their model over an existing playable character's skeleton, and they don't turn into something like Pikaman and it takes as little work as possible to do all their moves without breaking or any other glitches, then viola the character can be a clone/Echo/alt-costume. By what would work canon-wise has been completely secondary in deciding the prior clones/Echoes/alt-costumes in Smash, and while touches are made to make the character represent themselves better, canon stuff that would get in the way has repeatedly been fudged or completely ignored. The only limiting factor is if the character has enough popularity/fan demand/significance/relevance/moveset and uniqueness potential to get onto the playable roster as a full-fledged character over their competitors, if they're not able to then they're Echo candidates. And in the case of frequently suggested Echo candidates, the only ones I see with any realistic chance of making the roster as a full-fledged character are Dixie Kong and Isabelle; I see no hope for the likes of Shadow, Dark Samus, Chrom, etc., so I think they're completely fair game to end up as Echoes.

So basically, when arguing against why a character won't end up an Echo, instead of focusing on how it wouldn't make any canon sense or what would "look weird", instead look at it from the angle of if the character would actually realistically be able to make the roster as their own character in the first place.

 

[Jgt044]

In my personal opinion, I don't think he is credible. He only leaked the Ice Climbers, Snake, Simon (uncorfimed), Ridley (which the Resetera mods hinted at first) and that everyone from Smash 4 would come back (I think? I'm not sure on this though). No mention of Daisy or that everyone from the series is here, which were the two things that would have impossible to guess or predict.

Also the fact that he leaked some Castlevania game and he was wrong. Like, to be blunt, I don't expect any new third parties in this game, I feel like they are enough and getting Snake (by popular demand) in this game must have been hell.

While I don't agree with there being no new third parties added to the game, you bring up an interesting point. The main thing separating the Vergeben "leak" from stuff like Sal Romano's e3 2013 Gematsu leak is that, initially, Romano had the benefit of having Wii Fit Trainer in the leak before the reveal, which no madman could have predicted beforehand. And there's nothing like that that Vergeben has gotten got right yet. The one thing of his that makes me curious is the Minecraft stage/assist trophy part, since I don't think many people predicted that unironically (but even then, That's kinda debatable).

Talking about leaks makes me miss the smash 4 leaks thread...good memories

 

[Deleted member]

Do you know what's even weirder than Wario speaking full lines?

Wario speaking in French.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hey man, congrats on Daroach by the way. It's not Smash but being playable in a canon Kirby game is still a big deal. Still waiting on them to formally reveal "the third character of wave 2" because, aside from Geno, they're the Nintendo character I've wanted to see return in a meaningful way for the longest time.

Honestly, I can live without Daroach playable in Smash - the fact he's playable in an official Nintendo game is enough for me and, quite frankly, getting the entire roster back + the 3 newcomers we have for me so far is enough for me not to ask for any more. Really, all I just want is tool kit expansions.

at this point if I had a short list next, if they gave me K. Rool, Masked Man, Isaac, Dillon, and Geno, it'd be all my wants from Brawl/Smash 4. Even just one of those would get me hype.

That said, yeah, Wave 2 is looking really hype. I just wish Star Allies was playable online. Have you picked up a Switch yet?

ALSO

Yes to all this, I have to keep reiterating; what makes an ideal clone/Echo/alt-costume candidate isn't what makes most sense canon-wise, but simply what works best mechanically. If you take a character and slap their model over an existing playable character's skeleton, and they don't turn into something like Pikaman and it takes as little work as possible to do all their moves without breaking or any other glitches, then viola the character can be a clone/Echo/alt-costume. By what would work canon-wise has been completely secondary in deciding the prior clones/Echoes/alt-costumes in Smash, and while touches are made to make the character represent themselves better, canon stuff that would get in the way has repeatedly been fudged or absolutely ignored. The only limiting factor is if the character has enough popularity/fan demand/significance/relevance/moveset and uniqueness potential to get onto the playable roster as a full-fledged character over their competitors, if they're not able to then they're Echo candidates. And in the case of frequently suggested Echo candidates, the only ones I see with any realistic chance of making the roster as a full-fledged character are Dixie Kong and Isabelle; I see no hope for the likes of Shadow, Dark Samus, Chrom, etc., so I think they're completely fair game to end up as Echoes.

So basically, when arguing against why a character won't end up an Echo, instead of focusing on how it wouldn't make any canom sense or would "look weird", instead look at it from the angle of if the character would actually realistically be able to make the roster as their own character in the first place.

I totally didn't see viewtifulduck82 's post but I'm in entire agreement with both of these. I can see quite a few echo's happen that people wouldn't want to see happen (Dixie, Chrom, Shadow, etc) and honestly, I'm perfectly okay with that. Also, another take:

Just because a character isn't an echo doesn't mean they won't borrow some moves

 

[MagnesD3]

The only new character from FE that I see happening is Chrom as a fast echo character, mostly for what Sakurai stated (not that it couldn't change his mind).
In my opinion franchises that has only 2 reps should get at least one new rep, third is the magic number, specially if those franchises has been in smash since the beginning.

Definitely agree the only FE rep we will possibly see is a chrom Echo since his fans were actively teased in the last game, Sakurai likes to not hurt fans and it would be super easy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sakurai likes to hurt fans

This is a man who frequently hurts himself due to working too hard and for too long.

We just got a game where we got...

• Literally every veteran
• Mother****ing Ridley
• Almost every stage in the series

And you want to say he likes to hurt fans?

 

[StrangeMann]

A moment to talk about the potentially massive array of competitively viable characters and stages at our disposal:
68 different movesets to mess around with, 68 different movesets for people to pick from in competitive play, and this game is (hopefully) even more balanced than smash 4 was (aside from Bayonetta and Cloud, which are outliers in Smash 4 for being notably strong), and there's probably even more characters not even announced yet. A massive variety of legal stages with battlefield and final destination versions, in addition to hazardless stages, and a more aggressive neutral than smash 4. Potentially 30 legal stages and over 70 playable movesets will be a blast with balancing patches and DLC to come.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

This is a man who frequently hurts himself due to working too hard and for too long.

We just got a game where we got...

• Literally every veteran
• Mother****ing Ridley
• Almost every stage in the series

And you want to say he likes to hurt fans?

Are you mental?

i think he messed up on his word choice there and probably meant something more like "sakurai likes to tease his fans"

 

[Cosmic77]

First of all, there are 30 Assist Trophies that we know of. The Direct stated that there are "over 50 Assist Trophies in the game". If it were more than 60, it would have said, "More than 60", so going off of that, I'm going to think we have 21-29 left to see.

I think this is something a lot of people are forgetting. In addition to the old ATs we haven't seen, I'm assuming there's a lot of new ATs that haven't been shown off either. Once you factor in both, you get a number close to 50.

I know people are excited that their favorite characters survived a wave of disconfirmations, but I think we're jumping the gun by making missing ATs some of the most likely characters to get in Smash. Quite a few popular characters weren't seen, and I doubt all of them are getting in. People who bring up Ashley's absence forget that Kat and Ana were missing as well. Did Kat and Ana's chances skyrocket after E3? Then there's also the possibility that some of these characters were just cut, plain and simple. Mr. Resetti was an iconic Animal Crossing character who ended up getting cut (and if I had to guess, I'd say it's because his AT was awful and annoying). Maybe some of the more iconic characters like Skull Kid or Shadow got cut in this game because Sakurai felt like they weren't necessary. He might have even replaced them with other characters from their franchise.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This point by Tevlev14 on Reddit makes me wonder what would be like if he used copy abilities from his own series instead of other fighters. In addition (although this might be crazy), maybe he could get an entirely new moveset for each ability, but also have the normal moveset if he is not using a copy ability. What are your thoughts?

For a while now I thought this would have been the better route to take with Kirby in Smash. Kirby using the other character's neutral special and wearing hats based on them is a cute novelty, but it's not really something that can be balanced around, and has become a huge developmental pain overtime, Kirby is without a doubt at this point the most developmentally-intensive character, while it only gets worse and worse the farther the roster expands. Doing this on the other hand would have represented what Kirby does better, and it's a whole lot more balanceable, while requiring a fraction of the developmental load. I would want Sakurai to switch to doing this, but it wouldn't be possible to do it at this point without massive fan backlash as the fans love their Kirby hats, especially from the casual fanbase who has a tenuous-at-best grasp on the concept of developmental load and resources.

 

[Jgt044]

He's as always somewhat credible, he's definitely got some legitimate sources, but he's also got some bad ones. I do believe the Simon part of the leak as that was one of his initial claims that came alongside no cuts, ICs and Ridley at E3, but I'm a little bit more cautious about his Minecraft representation claim as it came way later, and with his track record I'm a bit wary of trusting some of the information he seems to have gotten significantly later. I don't really care a whole lot anymore though, the only thing I needed was for the Ridley part to be true lol.

For what it's worth I think people are hugely underselling him getting Ridley right. Yes, there was a bit of teasing by Resetera mods, but it was brushed off by most people as them just messing around (as they occasionally do), by no means were those hints anywhere near strong enough to draw any conclusions from, and it certainly wasn't piggyback material for someone like Vergeben who had a little bit of a reputation (even if a very mixed one). He also got Snake right which was a very bold claim at the time.

Yeah, the only part I needed to be true was Ridley lol. I'm pretty sure I woke up my neighbors when it was revealed lol. I was so happy!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let me say this as someone who supports Shadow being playable; I would be perfectly fine with him using guns. Now implementing them while using his chaos powers is the actual issue. Of course, I'd expect only laser or explosive ones, and his Orbital Laser would make for a great Final Smash option. Besides that, the Shadow Rifle is pretty neat too. Plus, Shadow's own game has a lot of cool alternate colors/robotic designs.

 

[RandomAce]

Quick question,

But can anyone list off the commonly considered popular characters from the ballot?

And possible curveball ballot newcomers? (Characters that might actually be high on the ballot but weren’t considered popular by most people).

 

[Hinata]

For a while now I thought this would have been the better route to take with Kirby in Smash. Kirby using the other character's neutral special and wearing hats based on them is a cute novelty, but it's not really something that can be balanced around, and has become a huge developmental pain overtime, Kirby is without a doubt at this point the most developmentally-intensive character, while it only gets worse and worse the farther the roster expands. Doing this on the other hand would have represented what Kirby does better, and it's a whole lot more balanceable, while requiring a fraction of the developmental load. I would want Sakurai to switch to doing this, but it wouldn't be possible to do it at this point without massive fan backlash as the fans love their Kirby hats, especially from the casual fanbase who has a tenuous-at-best grasp on the concept of developmental load and resources.

The best part about your post is that Sakurai himself even stated during the Smash Ultimate showcase that the more characters they add, the harder Kirby becomes to develop.

To quote:

"Kirby has a copy ability for every fighter, so the more fighters we have, the more challenging he becomes to develop."

 

[Thirdkoopa]

For a while now I thought this would have been the better route to take with Kirby in Smash. Kirby using the other character's neutral special and wearing hats based on them is a cute novelty, but it's not really something that can be balanced around, and has become a huge developmental pain overtime, Kirby is without a doubt at this point the most developmentally-intensive character, while it only gets worse and worse the farther the roster expands. Doing this on the other hand would have represented what Kirby does better, and it's a whole lot more balanceable, while requiring a fraction of the developmental load. I would want Sakurai to switch to doing this, but it wouldn't be possible to do it at this point without massive fan backlash as the fans love their Kirby hats, especially from the casual fanbase who has a tenuous-at-best grasp on the concept of developmental load and resources.

entirely agreed

Quick question,

But can anyone list off the commonly considered popular characters from the ballot?

And who might be surprised ballot newcomers?

bad news about that, buddy

we don't have the ballot results

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Lucina and Daisy are shorter than their base, and that didn't stop them from being echoes. I don't think Isabelle is that likely as an echo, but she could end up being one

We don't know how much shorter Daisy is in Smash if she is at all, but Lucina is only a couple pixels shorter than Marth is in Smash (the same with her "shorter reach" as well). To give you a sense of how incredibly negligible that is, it's the difference between a glancing blow and a hit maybe registering; consider how difficult it is to get glancing blows intentionally in a test setting, and you'll how negligible that height/reach "difference" is.

 

[Miikon]

Top 5 wants:
Bandana Dee
Waluigi
Celica
Crash Bandicoot
Sora

Likely:
Ashley - Feel like Sakurai wants to cater to JP with this one, a character archetype that is still missing (hex user).
Bandana Dee - The last of the main four recurring Kirby characters from Sakurai's franchise.
Gardevoir - I have a strange feeling that this món's popularity will secure it a spot this time around. I also find it strange that a pokeball pokemon, that seems to be one of the first programmed in earlier installments was MIA at the E3 demo.
Dixie Kong - Would be strange to see DK be stuck at two characters when it has Dixie available, only thing that goes against DK is that most of the franchises characters are designed by western studios (Rare and Retro), something that Nintendo has looked down upon earlier (Diddy was always associated with Rare back in the day and Nintendo avoided using him until Rare was gone.)
Impa - Seems like the Zelda character that is missing, especially the SS version.

 

[RandomAce]

entirely agreed


bad news about that, buddy

we don't have the ballot results

I’m asking about what characters have been getting a lot of noise from the ballot. Like King K. Rool for example who had a lot of noise during the ballot.

 

[Will]

I’m asking about what characters have been getting a lot of noise from the ballot. Like King K. Rool for example who had a lot of noise during the ballot.

A lot of noise doesn't necessarily equate to a lot of votes. It's best not to assume.

 

[SlickWylde]

I get that Isabelle is relevant and popular but I’d much prefer Tom Nook. As someone who’s played AC since the GameCube days he better represents the series as a whole. Given Nintendo like to shoehorn Isabelle in (ala mario kart 8) their properties though, she is the much more likely candidate.


Tom Nook is also a villain and we need more villian reps hur hur hur

I agree actually. She is more likely, but I prefer Tom Nook more. He's more Iconic to me. But that's just to me, since I haven't played the newer games. I have no idea who she even is. Does she take on a Tom Nook "Authority" type role?