Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Skyblade12]

Fair.

When I say frontrunner, I actually consider Lycanroc to be about 40% likely, while Decidueye/Rowlet and Mimikyu are about 30% likely. Not a signficant difference between them, but a difference nonetheless.

Personally, I rate Mimikyu much lower. I think it's a tailor made Pokeball Pokemon.

The main feature of Mimikyu is that its primary body is a decoy and not a hitbox. It's already a small Pokemon, and this would make it harder to hit than Pichu. What's more, it's moves aren't as blatant as many of the others, especially since its limbs hide under the disguise the whole time.

 

[Pacack]

Personally, I rate Mimikyu much lower. I think it's a tailor made Pokeball Pokemon.

The main feature of Mimikyu is that its primary body is a decoy and not a hitbox. It's already a small Pokemon, and this would make it harder to hit than Pichu. What's more, it's moves aren't as blatant as many of the others, especially since its limbs hide under the disguise the whole time.

I'd argue that it would be easy to implement the decoy as a single occasion of invincibility when hit, with the hurtbox returning to the size of the entire body after the decoy has been hit.

And his limbs can easily be brought out for attacks. I see no problem there.

I think he's more likely to be a Pokeball Pokemon than not, but I wouldn't say that's because he's impossible to make a fighter or anything.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Personally, I rate Mimikyu much lower. I think it's a tailor made Pokeball Pokemon.

The main feature of Mimikyu is that its primary body is a decoy and not a hitbox. It's already a small Pokemon, and this would make it harder to hit than Pichu. What's more, it's moves aren't as blatant as many of the others, especially since its limbs hide under the disguise the whole time.

Mimikyu has push, tons of merchandise, is a play on the series mascot, is like NOTHING we have in Smash, and popular as heck.

In fact? He's the most likely IMO, followed by the wolf, Rowlet, THEN Eevee in the event Sakurai knew about Let's Go, and then finally the burb with arrows dead last.

Fire cat is a non entity IMO.

 

[Pakky]

Fair.

When I say frontrunner, I actually consider Lycanroc to be about 40% likely, while Decidueye/Rowlet and Mimikyu are about 30% likely. Not a signficant difference between them, but a difference nonetheless.

I'm kind of the opposite really.

- Lycanroc isn't really the staple of the gen its not say Lucario or Zoroark.

- Decidueye is not really a Prominent starter like at all.

- Mimikyu is everywhere seemingly and pretty much IS gen 7

- Incenaraor judging from the initial concept art and where anime is at the moment, along with the movie, IS our big gen 7 starter thing.

Personally, I rate Mimikyu much lower. I think it's a tailor made Pokeball Pokemon.

The main feature of Mimikyu is that its primary body is a decoy and not a hitbox. It's already a small Pokemon, and this would make it harder to hit than Pichu. What's more, it's moves aren't as blatant as many of the others, especially since its limbs hide under the disguise the whole time.

Gonna be honest size irrelevant.

We have had shields in Smash before, the decoy is just a really bad one.

Well as far as moves go, it does have a lot plus the wooden tail is meant to be some sort of club if 'Wood Hammer" is any indication

 

[MrRoidley]

About Lycanroc, I never even considered it to be a possibility in Smash until people brought it up here. I considered even Zeraora, Solgaleo or a Ultra Beast before Lycanroc crossing my mind
Sure I never considered Greninja back in SSB4 either but still. idk I just think Mimikyu, Decidueye/Rowlet and even Eevee are more likely

 

[Skyblade12]

I'd argue that it would be easy to implement the decoy as a single occasion of invincibility when hit, with the hurtbox returning to the size of the entire body after the decoy has been hit.

And his limbs can easily be brought out for attacks. I see no problem there.

I think he's more likely to be a Pokeball Pokemon than not, but I wouldn't say that's because he's impossible to make a fighter or anything.

I just think he's less likely than the starters, and he's actually the most likely Pokeball Pokemon in my mind. He's not impossible, but it's just so easy to see how he'd work as a Pokeball Pokemon, compared to a newcomer.

I'm kind of the opposite really.

- Lycanroc isn't really the staple of the gen its not say Lucario or Zoroark.

- Decidueye is not really a Prominent starter like at all.

- Mimikyu is everywhere seemingly and pretty much IS gen 7

- Incenaraor judging from the initial concept art and where anime is at the moment, along with the movie, IS our big gen 7 starter thing.

Lycanroc is Ash's main Pokemon, received a third unique form to promote the new games, and has entire pages of CoroCoro dedicated specifically to it.

 

[Pakky]

Lycanroc is Ash's main Pokemon, received a third unique form to promote the new games, and has entire pages of CoroCoro dedicated specifically to it.

True, However Mimikyu is a Team Rocket's main Pokemon of the gen and has Coro pages dedicated to it as well.

Also, Incenaroar is still a very real possibility which has more media presence overall than Lycanroc.

 

[StrangeMann]

Important note: IIRC the Pokemon Company determines which pokemon get into smash bros, not Sakurai himself.
https://mynintendonews.com/2014/12/...he-inclusion-of-greninja-in-super-smash-bros/

Sakurai pretty much states in this interview the pokemon company sent him sketches of Greninja early in the smash 4 development cycle, and asked him to make the movements and moveset based on that to make a functioning character. People forget sometimes that the Pokemon company is not as closely intertwined to nintendo as some other brands.

Another note is that all Pokemon candidates to ever be in super smash bros were relevant popular in the Pokemon anime near their initial release or at some other point (Ivysaur possibly being the only exceptions to this rule.) This marketing is probably a stronger indicator of a Pokemon being added into smash bros than any other factor.

 

[?????????????]

Regardless of “likeliness,” which we still seem mostly unclear about, Decidueye is still my favorite pick.

 

[TB2]

I just want Lucario in Smash Switch, i've mained him since brawl, and has been my fav character since day one after buying brawl, but appart from that, Lucario is unique, i don't see anyone else who has the Aura mechanic in game, and of they remove rage, it will be 1000 times more noticible ( forgive my Enlish, its pretty bad )

 

[N3ON]

I'd like the Pokemon rep to be Screaming Metal Ditto.

 

[StrangeMann]

Regardless of “likeliness,” which we still seem mostly unclear about, Decidueye is still my favorite pick.

Here's the problem with Decidueye though: Decidueye was never planned to be a fan favorite pokemon. Despite being a starter pokemon it acquired that reputation of fan favorite on it's own, and while it was likely seen as the most popular starter pokemon of the generation by far, Decidueye has not been marketed well in the Pokemon anime. It does have a lot of merch, but the other two starters to as well, and the excess merch might be in response to it's gained popularity rather than being pre-planned. It actually suffers a bit because it's pre-evolved form, Rowlet, is much more popular than it is, being arguably the most popular pokemon of the generation. Rowlet is unlikely to evolve in the Pokemon anime past it's base form. Perhaps if the roster was decided by early 2017 I could see this pokemon being a viable choice.

Mimikyu and Lycanroc have been heavily featured in the Pokemon anime (as an antagonist and protagonist, respectively), but mimikyu has definitely been the cream of the crop for toys. This pokemon is extremely common in merchandising, and was likely the planned popular pokemon for the generation. It consistently ranks among the most popular pokemon of sun/moon, and it's design lends itself extremely easily to stuffed dolls and plushies. The problem with this pokemon is that it bares arguably a too-similar appearance to pikachu for the pokemon company to want it in smash bros, but that hasn't stopped them from adding pichu.

Lycanroc is also notable for it's many diverse forms, but I honestly think that it pales in comparison for popularity with Mimikyu. I regret my statement the other day that Lycanroc might be uninteresting compared to the other two viable options, but I do believe now that it's less likely than the other two options (despite being Ash's pokemon) simply because of the fact that there's lucario, wolf, and duck hunt dog which are sort of similar to it already in smash bros, it lacks the popularity of merchandising and advertising of mimikyu, and it lacks the fan favorite status of decidueye. It's sort of in the middle of the previous two.

 

[Arcanir]

When it comes to Pokémon popularity, the only data we have with a good potential sample size would be the Japanese Nintendo Dream one, which had the results go Mimikyu>Primarina>(Dusk) Lycanroc>Incineroar>Decidueye (who didn't place in the Top 14). In terms of other data, the issue is that it comes down to complete hearsay or fan polls, which may not be accurate due to the fact that the fanbase is large and a few online posters may not be indicative of what's truly popular. A good example of that is USUM, which is seemingly divisive among Pokémon fans, but sales would tell you it's close to beating Platinum for the title of second best selling 'third version'. Same thing with Smash since the online community completely missed Bayonetta back with DLC, and Lucario keeps popping up among us as a suggested unpopular Pokémon despite his many promotions across the past three generations within the Pokémon franchise itself. So ultimately, we only have one potentially reliable piece of data to refer to in terms of popularity, the rest could be inaccurate.

With that said, we don't know how much popularity will play a factor in Sakurai's decision as we don't know when he picked the Pokémon and how much it influenced his decision if he even had that information. Theoretically, he could be focusing more on promotion and the concept art, which can go in any of those five's favor depending on which he puts more value on or what he sees in the characters (ex. Decidueye's archery or Incineroar's wrestling abilities).

Even if Sakurai doesn’t care, it’s still possible that The Pokémon Company might care, or that Bandai-Namco might care (since it’s possible that they might be helping with Smash again.)

I doubt Bandai-Namco would care, as mentioned before they shared the other four Smash Pokémon no problem, Greninja being rejected could be due to a number of other factors. Regardless, if Sakurai wanted Decidueye, I don't think Namco would try to stop him, he's still the director and would have more control over the project relative to the company and whoever is sharing work on both projects.

Similarly, I don't think TCPi would be that bothered if both Smash and Pokken picked Decidueye. They have had Pokémon feature prominently across multiple medias and spinoffs within the same generation before such as Lucario, Charizard, and the like, so if Decidueye got the same deal I don't think they'd complain on that front.

True, However Mimikyu is a Team Rocket's main Pokemon of the gen and has Coro pages dedicated to it as well.

Also, Incenaroar is still a very real possibility which has more media presence overall than Lycanroc.

Actually, outside of the movie (which Lycanroc was present in as the rival's secondary), Lycanroc is currently ahead of Incineroar in terms of media presence for the generation. Looking at Bulbapedia, it had the two-shot Pokémon Horizon Manga going into SM, debuted in Corocoro in an exclusive spread shared with no other SM Pokémon, headed a TCG set, was used as an Event Pokémon to sell USUM to early adopters, got a Z-Move in USUM, is Ash's (Current) ace in the anime, was also present as one of Gladion's major Pokémon in the anime as well, also had a lot of merchandise to it, and so on. In general, it's pretty clear that TCPi is trying to push the wolf as much as they can and I would definitely say it's one of the generation's headliners alongside Mimikyu.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Important note: IIRC the Pokemon Company determines which pokemon get into smash bros, not Sakurai himself.
https://mynintendonews.com/2014/12/...he-inclusion-of-greninja-in-super-smash-bros/

Sakurai pretty much states in this interview the pokemon company sent him sketches of Greninja early in the smash 4 development cycle, and asked him to make the movements and moveset based on that to make a functioning character. People forget sometimes that the Pokemon company is not as closely intertwined to nintendo as some other brands.

Another note is that all Pokemon candidates to ever be in super smash bros were relevant popular in the Pokemon anime near their initial release or at some other point (Ivysaur possibly being the only exceptions to this rule.) This marketing is probably a stronger indicator of a Pokemon being added into smash bros than any other factor.

I'm pretty sure they sent him sketches of several Pokémon, and Sakurai took interest in Greninja, and decided to make a moveset for him on his own. Nowhere does it suggest that they only sent him sketches of Greninja and asked Sakurai to make him a character.

Sakurai also talked more about the process of adding Pokémon.

Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.

It sounds to me there is more to it than "they tell me who to add". It's a collaborative effort.

 

[DYED]

I know absolutely nothing about Porky (except what I saw in Brawl cause I've never played any Earthbound games) or why people want him so bad.

Don't get me wrong more power to you, me, and everyone who wants their favorite characters in Smash, but who's Porky? What's his backstory? how evil could he be? What's his appeal? and what other moves can he do than what we saw in Brawl. I know its a lot of question, but if someone has the time to get me the gist about Porky I'd be grateful.

Porky is this fat kid that lives in Onett, the same city where Ness' and others main characters from the game live.
He's this frightened, coward and greedy kid with no friends who initially tries to befriend Ness and the others, but as the story progresses ...

Spoiler: SPOILERS FROM THE FIRST GAME

He slowly starts to become evil, as his paranoia and fear of Gygas, the final enemy, grows bigger inside of him. To ease his fear of death, he initially joins a cult and tries to kidnap and sacrifice a friend of Ness, but he's then defeated. So he joins Gygas and tries to kill Ness, but he's again defeated and, being a coward douchebag, instead of accepting defeat and dying he uses a time machine device to escape.

Spoiler: SPOILERS FROM MOTHER 3

Porky comes back in Mother 3. Apparently, he went back in time and "colonized" and founded this city, of which he became the dictator. While his army is trying to start a campaign of conquering, we found out that Porky himself is in a terrible shape. His abuse of time traveling deformed his appearance, making him this grotesque old man-child, with features of both ages mixed horribly that force him to bed, but that's not all. Because of this, he became immortal and unable to die. During his last battle, he enters the ASC, a capsule that protects his owner from any harm, but is unable to attack, and while he rejoice that the ASC actually protects him from everything, it cannot be reopened and it is designed to protect his user until his death.

Unable to die, Porky is now fated to stay in complete isolation inside the ASC forever, as he slowly keep losing his sanity while centuries pass behind him.

Of course, explaining this through words alone doesn't really transpire how threatening, disturbing and fascinating Porky really is.
At the time having such a twisted and tragic villain was really a novelty, and people (me included) got really affectionate to him, as to be expected.

What makes him so different from what could be a Bowser or a Ganondorf is that Porky is not that evil by itself, no. He became evil because he couldn't control his fears and paranoia, that forced him to never have his coming-to-age unlike Ness and the others. He's not a cocky mastermind, he's this damaged child with extreme power and no idea of how to use it right. It's such a creative take on a villain, I really like him.
I guess that for his moveset they could just take what he does in Brawl (which isn't much different from what he does in the games) and redesign it to be a player moveset.
He can throw bombs, stampede and create robot clone of himself that go kamikaze and explode against his foes.

 

[StrangeMann]

With that said, we don't know how much popularity will play a factor in Sakurai's decision as we don't know when he picked the Pokémon and how much it influenced his decision if he even had that information. Theoretically, he could be focusing more on promotion and the concept art, which can go in any of those five's favor depending on which he puts more value on or what he sees in the characters (ex. Decidueye's archery or Incineroar's wrestling abilities).

I doubt Bandai-Namco would care, as mentioned before they shared the other four Smash Pokémon no problem, Greninja being rejected could be due to a number of other factors. Regardless, if Sakurai wanted Decidueye, I don't think Namco would try to stop him, he's still the director and would have more control over the project relative to the company and whoever is sharing work on both projects.

It's heavily implied from Sakurai's greninja interview that the pokemon company hand picked greninja and requested him to come up with a moveset to fit the pokemon.

I have high confidence the pokemon company holds a greater influence over playable pokemon than Sakurai does, as I've spoken to someone who was involved with detective pikachu film in production (concept artist) and the pokemon company is very selective about how their properties are marketed. The Pokemon company decides when and how their pokemon can be portrayed in a certain way or fashion, even in licensed products that already include other pokemon certain pokemon may be rejected from being in a certain advertising role or with certain character traits at the hands of the pokemon company.

While I don't doubt Sakurai has a high amount of creative input over what pokemon get in smash bros, I still get the feeling the the pokemon deck of cards has Sakurai pick from a small number in his hand dealt by the dealer that is the pokemon company.
I do think that we have to keep in mind the timing of the development cycle for smash 5 in order to make the strongest bets for playable characters, and if we assume that time frame started around mid 2016 to early 2017, we need to assume that pokemon that started off popular or were pushed from the beginning as popular choices are more likely for the game in my opinion, rather than pokemon that have more recently been pushed or marketed.

I'm pretty sure they sent him sketches of several Pokémon, and Sakurai took interest in Greninja, and decided to make a moveset for him on his own. Nowhere does it suggest that they only sent him sketches of Greninja and asked Sakurai to make him a character.

Sakurai also talked more about the process of adding Pokémon.
It sounds to me there is more to it than "they tell me who to add". It's a collaborative effort.

I know Sakurai does get input on the options, but it's likely from a small pool of choices at the beginning of the game's development cycle for him to pick from. It's likely the pokemon company asks "which out of _ , _, and _ pokemon we've been marketing look the most interesting as smash bros fighters?" , to which sakurai decides one and moves along with it.

 

[?????????????]

I want to explain why Decidueye is my favorite.

First of all, yes, a big part of it IS because I want a grass starter in Smash. I feel like that opening choice of grass/fire/water is a big theme of Pokémon, and I’m certain Charizard and Greninja will return. I’m unable to make that same choice of a grass starter that I’m able to do in both Pokémon games and Brawl.

Secondly, we don’t often get stand-out grass starters; they often seem like they get the short end of the stick. For instance, Greninja has Smash, Braxien has Pokken, Chespin has nothing. When was the last really big grass starter? Snivy? Well, we won’t get that. Sceptile? He’s my favorite Pokémon, and I’d love it, but even then, Blaziken was always “more popular.”

...Just like Incenaroar and Decidueye now. I thought this could be the big chance for grass. Decidueye has a cool design, his archery would be really unique to Smash, and he’s a GHOST TYPE. That in itself lends to some fun ideas!

It sucks hearing that he doesn’t seem like he has as much of a chance as I hoped because grass is always my pick. I played through Sun with Decidueye and loved it, like my Venusaur, Sceptile, Serperior, Torterra, and Chesnaut. I want to make that choice in Smash Bros., and I really thought this would be the chance.

Even then, I’m not convinced it isn’t. Decidueye isn’t totally out there; he had a Pokken appearance and he’s the fully evolved form of Rowlet, who DOES seem well-liked, so it can be thought of in that way.

Anyways, I’m not saying I’m right. I’m just saying that’s why I want what I want.

 

[Khao]

I'm pretty sure they sent him sketches of several Pokémon, and Sakurai took interest in Greninja, and decided to make a moveset for him on his own. Nowhere does it suggest that they only sent him sketches of Greninja and asked Sakurai to make him a character.

Sakurai also talked more about the process of adding Pokémon.

It sounds to me there is more to it than "they tell me who to add". It's a collaborative effort.

This. In no interview Sakurai has said that he's just forced to do what the Pokémon Company wants. The Pokémon Company is not a faceless entity that consumes everything on its path and can't be stopped, it's run by people who have the best of the interests for both series. Of course they communicate and work together to figure out what's best for the game.

If the most popular Pokémon does not fit Sakurai's vision of what makes a good Smash character, he's not going to add it. He probably does have to get the Pokémon Company's approval to add any Pokémon, and to be sure that they're represented in a way they find satisfactory. But at the end of the day, Sakurai is the director for a reason.

 

[Darkraid]

I don't think any pokemon is "easily" the front runner. Basically all the suggested options are great options. It's okay to have a preference and vouch for that preference, obviously, but I don't think anyone can say with certainty which pokemon is actually the most likely.

I think Eevee has a big chance.

I think Eevee and Decidueye will get in as Pokemon Reps.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Since Mimikyu apparently came up yet again, I thought of something the other day that could be interesting:
There's been a lot of arguing over how Disguise should be implemented. Usually it's not for how to make the most mechanically compelling character so much as feeling Mimikyu would be incomplete without it, even if it's clunky (which is fair). However, I think there is a way to implement it that would actually be compelling:
Give Mimikyu two hurtboxes, one for its "head" and one for the real body. When only the "head" is struck, Mimikyu takes full knockback but no damage. When the body is struck, it's a normal hit (and Mimikyu would be as light as GW). The consequence of this is that Mimikyu can have combos done on it in a way that's different from every other character in the game, because you can still control its position and stun it by hitting the "head" without building damage that would make it harder to follow up because it's so light. In some respects, Mimikyu would be uniquely crippled by being light without always being able to use that weight to escape combos earlier than most, but nonetheless has the ability to not be punished long-term for being struck by a raw f-smash or something.

 

[Nekoo]

I really doubt Eevee is a possible choice.
If the roster had to be over near end of 2016/middle of 2016- then it would be EXTREMELY EARLY for Game Freak to plan a Pokemon version pushing Pokemon Go since the game would barely be 5month old- at best the game would be In pre-production.

So if there a Pokemon Rep, I'm absolutely certain it's a Gen 7 Pokemon

 

[?????????????]

I really doubt Eevee is a possible choice.
If the roster had to be over near end of 2016/middle of 2016- then it would be EXTREMELY EARLY for Game Freak to plan a Pokemon version pushing Pokemon Go since the game would barely be 5month old- at best the game would be In pre-production.

I’m not fully convinced, simply because Eevee is a pre-existing Pokemon.

I’d think it’d be as simple as Sakurai asking GameFreak, “Hey, I’m makin’ a new Smash, you guys got any preferences or new projects you want me to consider?”

And they’d be like... “Yeah, we’re making this big, main game that literally stars Eevee and has its name in the title!”

And then Sakurai could choose to use/promote that.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

We know that when Sakurai made his project plan for the last Smash he left a spot open for a Pokémon that he would decide on later.

Do you think it's possible he did that again this time, so that he could do proper marketing research?

 

[Nekoo]

I’m not fully convinced, simply because Eevee is a pre-existing Pokemon.

I’d think it’d be as simple as Sakurai asking GameFreak, “Hey, I’m makin’ a new Smash, you guys got any preferences or new projects you want me to consider?”

And they’d be like... “Yeah, we’re making this big, main game that literally stars Eevee and has its name in the title!”

And then Sakurai could choose to use/promote that.

Once again. Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee are LITERALLY made to push Pokemon Go. The Game isn't even a main game? Isn't it like "A game to appeal to the casual audience" whole the "core Pokemon game" is for 2019?
Which Is why literally all of it's mechanics are to push Pokemon Go and they choose Gen 1 because it probably takes less time to remake...after all, it's THE X TIME we go to Kanto.
Beside, if Let's Go! Was the game they announced last E3. Then they probable had nothing to show for that same reason.

 

[Arcanir]

It's heavily implied from Sakurai's greninja interview that the pokemon company hand picked greninja and requested him to come up with a moveset to fit the pokemon.

I have high confidence the pokemon company holds a greater influence over playable pokemon than Sakurai does, as I've spoken to someone who was involved with detective pikachu film in production (concept artist) and the pokemon company is very selective about how their properties are marketed. The Pokemon company decides when and how their pokemon can be portrayed in a certain way or fashion, even in licensed products that already include other pokemon certain pokemon may be rejected from being in a certain advertising role or with certain character traits at the hands of the pokemon company.

While I don't doubt that TCPi could be controlling as IIRC Sakurai has said they can be hard to work with, I'm not sure if they have as much control as you're implying. Godzilla already went over the details around the process so I'll skip over that, but looking at both interviews where he discusses the matter, he implies that he still had control over the choice. In this interview for instance, he states he discussed it with his team and they came to the decision on Greninja while in yours he mentions that he got illustrations that he used to design the character from. In either case, he had enough freedom to look at the options and come to a decision on which to go with, he wasn't forced to pick Greninja just because TCPi wanted him to go with it.

Additionally, we also have to consider PT, as his character was more a product of Sakurai's own ideas rather then what was relevant at the time. So theoretically Sakurai doesn't seem to be completely restricted to promoting the next big Pokémon, he does have at least some freedom in the options and ideas he wants to pursue and implement into the games.

I do think that we have to keep in mind the timing of the development cycle for smash 5 in order to make the strongest bets for playable characters, and if we assume that time frame started around mid 2016 to early 2017, we need to assume that pokemon that started off popular or were pushed from the beginning as popular choices are more likely for the game in my opinion, rather than pokemon that have more recently been pushed or marketed.

Potentially yes, as we do have Lucario as an example of a Pokémon highly popular and promoted around the time Sakurai did his project plan. However, we also have to consider he could pull another Greninja as he's done it before for the franchise, or could even look back for other options like PT. So we may have to be a bit more flexible with Pokémon, particularly if he does the former again as that may shift his market research forward.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I’m not fully convinced, simply because Eevee is a pre-existing Pokemon.

I’d think it’d be as simple as Sakurai asking GameFreak, “Hey, I’m makin’ a new Smash, you guys got any preferences or new projects you want me to consider?”

And they’d be like... “Yeah, we’re making this big, main game that literally stars Eevee and has its name in the title!”

And then Sakurai could choose to use/promote that.

Seems like a believable process

 

[?????????????]

Once again. Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee are LITERALLY made to push Pokemon Go. The Game isn't even a main game? Isn't it like "A game to appeal to the casual audience" whole the "core Pokemon game" is for 2019?
Which Is why literally all of it's mechanics are to push Pokemon Go and they choose Gen 1 because it probably takes less time to remake...after all, it's THE X TIME we go to Kanto.
Beside, if Let's Go! Was the game they announced last E3. Then they probable had nothing to show for that same reason.

...Is there a problem with any of all that? Does being more casual make it less legitimate?

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, let's get Eevee in there to represent Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. Remakes of Yellow, or Pikachu Edition. One of only two starters, the other being Pikachu. Set in Kanto with only the first 151. Good thing those games will be finally be represented, now that we have Eevee.

 

[?????????????]

Yeah, let's get Eevee in there to represent Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. Remakes of Yellow, or Pikachu Edition. One of only two starters, the other being Pikachu. Set in Kanto with only the first 151. Good thing those games will be finally be represented, now that we have Eevee.

I’m just saying it’s a possibility. Eevee’s always been a prevalent Pokémon.

 

[Delzethin]

Again, it's worth mentioning that there seems to be much more back-and-forth communication between Sakurai and TPC than what gets acknowledged. The Smash community is caught up on this idea that patron companies force characters onto Sakurai despite us knowing it's not the case, and I'm not sure why the idea has spread so far despite such evidence to the contrary.

Also worth mentioning that marketing isn't quite the end-all be-all either. Smash isn't just some marketing tool, it's a celebration of Nintendo as a whole as well as a showcase of a wide variety of characters both old and new. Yet the idea that a character could get crammed in to cross-promote itself is seen as a given despite it never being the actual main reason anyone's gotten in.

But if you want to talk Gen 7 marketing...here's where it gets complicated. Because the Gen 7 mon with the most merch of anyone...has hardly been brought up at all.

Despite what some say about popularity of the games, the Pokémon themselves have had great promotion and success. Unsurprisingly, the top 3 featured are:

1. Alolan Vulpix
2. Mimikyu
3. Rowlet

— Paul Ryan (@paulrobertryan) May 26, 2018

And it gets more complicated from there. Because I got curious and did some tallying of my own on the merch announced since USUM's reveal trailer, as listed by the Pokéshopper website. While those three are frontrunners for the generation overall, if you count from mid-2017 onward, someone else has the top spot.

Three guesses who it is.

So if you want to argue marketing as reason to think TPC would push for one character in particular...why is everyone ignoring the one they've been pushing most for the last 10 months?


Not to mention what just happened in the anime yesterday:

A drawn out gauntlet of a Grand Trial where Ash's Lycanroc gained full control over its berserk state, learned Counter to both physically and symbolically show mastery of its Midday and Midnight traits, and won singlehandedly.

And the prize?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a Greninja on our hands. It just took a year to get going.

 

[Nekoo]

...Is there a problem with any of all that? Does being more casual make it less legitimate?

You missed the point.
What I'm saying is "isn't that game not even considered as a "core pokemon game" from the mainline series and wasn't the "core Pokemon game" announced for 2019?

Yeah, let's get Eevee in there to represent Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. Remakes of Yellow, or Pikachu Edition. One of only two starters, the other being Pikachu. Set in Kanto with only the first 151. Good thing those games will be finally be represented, now that we have Eevee.

I unironically laughed at this. Thanks-
But that's also one of the reason I don't think Eevee is in

God were going back to the usual Pokemon discussion...whats next? Daisy?

 

[?????????????]

I’m not gonna argue the point further, because as I already clearly expressed earlier, the thing I’m holding out for is Decidueye. I don’t give a hoot about what happens with Eevee.

As for Lycanroc...it’s a little funny that we were just discussing how Sakurai may have had to make these decisions as early as 2016, but Lycanroc’s popularity seems much more recent than that.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Snip

Okay legit, I would be absolute hype if Alolan Vulpix was playable. I absolutely love her

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Eevee's way too boring to make an accurate and interesting moveset and people who know me elsewhere know my stance on Lycanroc

 

[Delzethin]

We know that when Sakurai made his project plan for the last Smash he left a spot open for a Pokémon that he would decide on later.

Do you think it's possible he did that again this time, so that he could do proper marketing research?

He wouldn't have needed to. The reason the Smash 4 team used a placeholder for Gen 6 early on wasn't to wait on marketing, it was because X and Y were still over a year away and the designs of the new mons weren't finalized yet! Since we're probably looking at a window somewhere in mid-2016 for the start of Smash Switch's development, it'd have been a mere few months before Sun and Moon released, and so the designs and details for all of Gen 7 would've bet set in stone by then, meaning the team would've had full access to everything they'd have needed to make their decisions.

No offense meant, but see what I mean about so much of the Smash community automatically assuming newcomer selection must be a popularity contest despite the proof we have that it isn't that simple? Why are we so...predisposed to think it must be that way? I remember thinking that way myself years ago; never thought twice about it despite how faulty the logic was.

There must be a reason...

 

[Retroend]

i rather have lycanroc than mimikyu in smash.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Eevee's way too boring to make an accurate and interesting moveset and people who know me elsewhere know my stance on Lycanroc

I am currently working on proving this wrong, please give me a bit!

But in a big summary, I plan on having Eevee be a summoner who summons her evolutions for her smash attacks and her special attacks, which I think would be really fun.

 

[?????????????]

...I still want Meowth.

That’s a character that always has been, and probably always will be, an icon to the series.

They could literally introduce it into Smash any time and it would make sense.

...I’m just not expecting it to happen.

 

[MBRedboy31]

.No offense meant, but see what I mean about so much of the Smash community automatically assuming newcomer selection must be a popularity contest despite the proof we have that it isn't that simple? Why are we so...predisposed to think it must be that way? I remember thinking that way myself years ago; never thought twice about it despite how faulty the logic was.

There must be a reason...

I’d imagine part of it being that popularity is one of the few “objective” things we have to speculate about, given the existence of polls and sales data; we have so little info otherwise, plus Sakurai is so unpredictable. After all, it isn’t so fun to simply say, “Well, we can’t know all of the factors that could go into a decision by Sakurai, so it’s hard to really put forth a prediction” even though that is often technically the most accurate train of thought.

I’d also imagine that many people are caught up on the DLC phase due to things such as the Ballot and picks made for marketing such as Corrin, even though there likely is a difference between the way characters are picked for the base roster and for DLC.

 

[YoshiandToad]

To be honest, I don't even particularly like Eevee and I think Eevee's a good choice to represent Pokemon.

Ignoring Let's Go for one second, it's a Pokemon literally based around one of the most key aspects of the game; evolution. There's a thread on here about "What character would you add to better represent that series". We've got starters in Zard and Greninja, Pikachu and Puff covering the anime, Lucario and Mewtwo covering movies, yet nothing specifically covering the actual game concepts.

Let's get Ditto in too to cover 'catching them all' by having him transform into various other Pokemon to attack(obviously not all, but a great variety across different gens and types). That could not only be fun but allow several missed generational Pokemon to be playable at the same time whilst still representing the other key part of Pokemon games.

There you go; Pokemon game representatives.

(I'd prefer Meowth to both, but I'd definitely be down with this idea)