Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[papagenos]

Watch it as people sudeently turn their jacket saying that Sora/Medusa/Goroh were obvious.

yeah it will happen if this turns out to be true when NO ONE was guessing them before the "leak".

I do find this leak interesting because it takes some thought to see why the characters might get chosen but you COULD be all hindsight about it afterwards. Goroh being the first assist trophy and from the melee opening, Medusa being from a sakurai "favored" series and a female villian (if villians are an important aspect of this game she'd make sense), then Sora recently has some strange things pointing towards him like zero of all people getting to play KH3 early and then invited to the smash E3 event after "retiring", and a disney ceo guy said some stuff about KH in smash in an interview with some youtuber... its just an odd link between the two series all of a sudden and sora isnt considered a "likely" choice by most due to disney involvement so it seems like you wouldnt fake a leak with him and expect to be taken seriously and then boom theres some evidence that KH could be in smash.

Medusa would be weirdest choise tbh. Sakurai personally confirmed KI as dead and the great amount of content we got in the last game felt like his way of closing the series, at least for the next one or two decades.

I agree shes an odd choice but if the villians vs heros thing is true she'd make sense in that regard as otherwise i think we'd have no female villians. Plus sakurai obviously has some kid icarus bias and can use the characters on a whim and she might have a cool moveset potential

 

[osby]

I've been out of Pokemon for a while, so I just want to clarify something. I understand why people support Incineroar and Decidueye (they're both the final evolutions of starters, have interesting designs, and seem to bring something new to the table for Smash), and I kind of get Mimikyu (it's a wannabe mascot for the generation, as in it literally wants to be the mascot, and it's weirdly adorable and kind of creepy at the same time).

However, I'm not familiar with Lycanroc, so I wanted to know why it seems to have picked up some steam. All I know is that it's a wolf with earth powers. Is it really important in the anime, like Jigglypuff was? (I have been out of Pokemon for years - stopped after Ruby, and I only recently got Pokemon Y)

It's one of Ash's prominent Pokémon and I think it has quite a character arc.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

So we've kinda deliberated the idea of Porky and his Spider-Mech from EarthBound. Enough to make me slightly re-consider him as an addition I wouldn't mind, even albeit not one I'd make immediately. Maybe he'd also take a bit of influence from Guilty Gear's Bedman when it comes to handling his typically large mech...

Also gave a bit of thought about Medusa. Could be some reasoning behind her, given she's both in the original Kid Icarus and Uprising (Though in my book, both Viridi and Hades would be good choices for a Kid Icarus villain) and I can imagine her drawing a fair bit from Palutena in terms of basic staff attacks, but perhaps she has an ability to petrify an opponent with her stare.

Goroh, on the other hand, might be a bit difficult to picture in my mind. Of course he has to use his katana somehow, given he's Samurai Goroh. Perhaps he's more based on Sumo wrestling type attacks, so he's fat and bulky, but his attacks are deceptively faster? Hmm... I might think that could be an interesting contrast to good ol' Captain Falcon. But it's still all speculation.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I keep on hearing that we’re going to get a new Pokémon because “we always get a new Pokémon” but we have always gotten a Pokémon cut too. Where’s that prediction?

 

[Nekoo]

I keep on hearing that we’re going to get a new Pokémon because “we always get a new Pokémon” but we have always gotten a Pokémon cut too. Where’s that prediction?

Mewtwo for missing the base roster a third time...
Third time the charm

 

[osby]

I keep on hearing that we’re going to get a new Pokémon because “we always get a new Pokémon” but we have always gotten a Pokémon cut too. Where’s that prediction?

None of the current ones are clones, they don't push the hardware and there seems no problem with development time. I think they'll be fine.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Do you think there is the possibility that Sakurai was given a few Generation 7 Pokemon to work with and found Lycanroc to be the most intriguing, highly influencing TPC to make Lycanroc and Rockruff the central Pokemon to represent in marketing and in the anime? The process could have been that simple, with Decidueye ultimately being passed off.

It happened with Greninja so I don't see why not.

 

[Zeox]

I think that, for a fake leak, the dude that did the imgur choose good characters to fit in his "heroes vs villains" theme.
He/She choose from villains from the Smash64 franchises, with that excuse k. rool and ridley would be there, but no villain group is complete without the obligatory female main villain, so he choose medusa.
Mimikyu is not a villain, but it can be a good rival for Pikachu, and is from the last generation so it would fit.
Then for the not bad guys, the chorus kids were actually intended to be in smash 4 (or at least i think they were, I may be wrong here), and with the fake leaks of the smash tower, pretty sure some people voted for them in the ballot... just like Geno.
And for the third parties I have nothing, probably the leaker just choose random thirdparty characters that he thought they were cool or something.

 

[Nekoo]

I think that, for a fake leak, the dude that did the imgur choose good characters to fit in his "heroes vs villains" theme.
He/She choose from villains from the Smash64 franchises, with that excuse k. rool and ridley would be there, but no villain group is complete without the obligatory female main villain, so he choose medusa.
Mimikyu is not a villain, but it can be a good rival for Pikachu, and is from the last generation so it would fit.
Then for the not bad guys, the chorus kids were actually intended to be in smash 4 (or at least i think they were, I may be wrong here), and with the fake leaks of the smash tower, pretty sure some people voted for them in the ballot... just like Geno.
And for the third parties I have nothing, probably the leaker just choose random thirdparty characters that he thought they were cool or something.

That's true.
But putting Snake on top of Simon and then ****ing Sora is probably one of the most balsy move I've seen for a fake leaks without sounding ********.

 

[osby]

I think that, for a fake leak, the dude that did the imgur choose good characters to fit in his "heroes vs villains" theme.
He/She choose from villains from the Smash64 franchises, with that excuse k. rool and ridley would be there, but no villain group is complete without the obligatory female main villain, so he choose medusa.
Mimikyu is not a villain, but it can be a good rival for Pikachu, and is from the last generation so it would fit.
Then for the not bad guys, the chorus kids were actually intended to be in smash 4 (or at least i think they were, I may be wrong here), and with the fake leaks of the smash tower, pretty sure some people voted for them in the ballot... just like Geno.
And for the third parties I have nothing, probably the leaker just choose random thirdparty characters that he thought they were cool or something.

That's why I don't find it convincing, it looks like characters are chosen to fill a quota, rather than being chosen individually. Newer characters like Elma or Mimikyu stands out like throwaways.

 

[papagenos]

That's true.
But putting Snake on top of Simon and then ****ing Sora is probably one of the most balsy move I've seen for a fake leaks without sounding ********.

Yeah i mean it could totally be fake, but theres something about the choices that are both NOT what anyone would put on a fake leak but also if you look at it all and spend time and think about them would make sense in a sakurai way.

its the same feeling brawl and smash 4 gave me when we finally got those rosters after months of speculating, not really what people were guessing but makes sense when you see the full roster and can analyze the train of thought behind it. no one is guessing porky or goroh BUT if ridley is in then maybe sakurai wanted to add more bosses from brawl, goroh was the first assist trophy and he was in the intro to melee just like wolf and ridley... if this is the "ultimate smash" roster, maybe the idea is to include all the characters who are associated with smash.

I think maybe the oddest thing about following that train of thought to get this roster would be leaving out squirtle and ivysaur in this regard, but hey they could easily be great DLC candidates this time.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Mewtwo for missing the base roster a third time...
Third time the charm

He's a good cash grab for DLC due to popularity and I don't blame Sakurai if he makes him that a second time

 

[Kirby Dragons]

After I get some more icons, I'll work on a Pokemon tier list showing which ones I think are most likely.

 

[osby]

He's a good cash grab for DLC due to popularity and I don't blame Sakurai if he makes him that a second time

Well, that's why they didn't make him free, after all. Jokes aside, last DLC period gave me no reason to believe Smash team withholds content from us, so I'll stay away from "which fighter makes good post-release content material?" talk.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well, that's why they didn't make him free, after all. Jokes aside, last DLC period gave me no reason to believe Smash team withholds content from us, so I'll stay away from "which fighter makes good post-release content material?" talk.

It's a good idea. At the very least when it comes to paid DLC.

But what if they use the same system ARMS had?

 

[osby]

It's a good idea. At the very least when it comes to paid DLC.

But what if they use the same system ARMS had?

But fighters are a lot less similar to each other in Smash. It's possible but I think ARMS' s system only works in traditional fighting games (not that ARMS itself is very traditional)

 

[PSIGuy]

That's why I don't find it convincing, it looks like characters are chosen to fill a quota, rather than being chosen individually. Newer characters like Elma or Mimikyu stands out like throwaways.

I disagree, doing something like "Springman/Rex & Pyra/Gen 8 Pokemon/FE16 rep" would've been unconvincing. Everyone suspects those characters despite how they wouldn't fit with a 2016 project plan. The more you consider the reps on the imgur leak the more sense they make.
For instance, Chorus Kids/Elma/Mimikyu/Dixie all make sense as they had releases around Smash 4's release date (you can include Takamaru here for his Virtual Console debut). All are unique picks in terms of appearance, possible mechanics etc. K. Rool/Goroh/Porky/Wolf/Ridley are villains, recurring characters from their series and interestingly all have featured in Smash before, meaning they already have relevance. The third parties have significant history with Nintendo OR are incredibly popular in their own right. Medusa is the oddest one out.
People talk about how Smash 5 is going to be the next Melee. This roster feels like a Melee-esque roster, like if you picked characters the same way Melee did. Characters added not just because of recency but because of what they add to existing franchises too.

If any pre-E3 leak ends up being true, my money's on this one.

 

[Nekoo]

I disagree, doing something like "Springman/Rex & Pyra/Gen 8 Pokemon/FE16 rep" would've been unconvincing.

This was basically EVERY Smash Switch Fake leaks Ever since it was announced. Legit.
Every day on 4chan you got your daily "Spring Man, Waluigi, Rex Pyra, Bandana Dee are in my dad work at Nintendo as a Ninja"
If people are taking interest to this rumor/fake leaks it's because IT IS way too odd compared to what people expect, yet weirdly makes sense to not discard it already and the first one to also Piggyback Vergeben's leaks which seems to be our Only kinda reliable source.

 

[osby]

I disagree, doing something like "Springman/Rex & Pyra/Gen 8 Pokemon/FE16 rep" would've been unconvincing. Everyone suspects those characters despite how they wouldn't fit with a 2016 project plan. The more you consider the reps on the imgur leak the more sense they make.
For instance, Chorus Kids/Elma/Mimikyu/Dixie all make sense as they had releases around Smash 4's release date (you can include Takamaru here for his Virtual Console debut). All are unique picks in terms of appearance, possible mechanics etc. K. Rool/Goroh/Porky/Wolf/Ridley are villains, recurring characters from their series and interestingly all have featured in Smash before, meaning they already have relevance. The third parties have significant history with Nintendo OR are incredibly popular in their own right. Medusa is the oddest one out.
People talk about how Smash 5 is going to be the next Melee. This roster feels like a Melee-esque roster, like if you picked characters the same way Melee did. Characters added not just because of recency but because of what they add to existing franchises too.

If any pre-E3 leak ends up being true, my money's on this one.

Like Melee? Melee added most prevalent characters of Nintendo absent from the last game. Peach, Marth, Mewtwo... Goroh or Porky aren't anything noteworthy except they are from old and small Smash franchises.

And didn't Melee added four Zelda characters from two recent games and Roy before his game is even out? I don't think they were here to add something particular, unless you count three easy clones adding to existing franchises.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I still don't understand why we dismiss Lycanroc. It's easily the frontrunner for the Pokemon character this time around, imo.

Like I've brought up already, the Midday and Dusk Forms are 100% quadrupedal, so they wouldn't be able to use certain kinds of items; this includes Barrels, Crates, Party Balls, and even the Daybreak. Midnight Form Lycanroc, however, doesn't have this issue, but it's far less popular than the Dusk Form.

Lycanroc may have a chance as a Poke Ball Pokemon, but making it playable would mean that the developers have to figure out how it can utilize every kind of item in the game.

Also, there's really no such thing as a Pokemon frontrunner anymore, as Greninja was added into Smash 3DS / Wii U before it gained any kind of popularity.

 

[Burb]

I keep on hearing that we’re going to get a new Pokémon because “we always get a new Pokémon” but we have always gotten a Pokémon cut too. Where’s that prediction?

People seem even more hesitant to talk about cuts this cycle than in any of the previous ones. A lot of people even have themselves convinced that the ease of porting from Wii U to Switch will prevent there from being any cuts at all.

I think it's overly optimistic and everyone should assume there will be cuts unless told otherwise, but this fandom just loves setting itself up for disappointment.

That aside, it's honestly hard to predict which one's on the chopping block. Given how many Pokemon reps there are, and its history of receiving cuts, I think it's one of the likeliest to have a character cut. And I think it could feasibly be any of them except Pikachu.

 

[Jetsurge]

I'm mostly fine with newcomers but it's really weird to have newcomers selected to fill a quota. We *did* have a similar thing in the last game where Sakurai commented the game has a lot of female fighters but that was it.

If this is true I have a feeling that Samurai Goroh will be a Takamaru clone and that Medsusa will be a Palutena clone using her other specials.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are u serious? Eevee has 8 evolutions and it is boring?

Yes because in Pokemon you can't revert back to older forms, meaning if Eevee gets in it would just be Eevee. "Muh manga!" Rather obscure source which would STILL be inaccurate. Eevee doesn't have a major hook either "Let's Go!" Pikachu's also there "Evolution mechanic" Inaccurate to the games and Pokemon Trainer in Brawl did it

 

[osby]

If this is true I have a feeling that Samurai Goroh will be a Takamaru clone and that Medsusa will be a Palutena clone using her other specials.

Samurai Goroh and Takamaru are too different but Medusa is possible. Though the question "why" comes to mind since she's neither very popular or important.

 

[Burb]

I'm not sure why this new "leak" is gaining so much traction. It has nothing going for it whatsoever and blatantly reads like a wishlist.

I keep hearing people say the "Heroes vs Villains" theme lends credibility to it, but......how, exactly? None of the previous Smash games have had a thematically chosen roster. If anything, this one having a roster specifically centered around a theme makes it even likelier to be fake.

Part of me feels like it's getting the benefit of the doubt because it has a lot of popular picks. It's like Miahstorm and Tower of Smash all over again.

Samurai Goroh and Takamaru are too different but Medusa is possible. Though the question "why" comes to mind since she's neither very popular or important.

It's more than a little bit absurd that you'd say Medusa is "unimportant" in the same breath where you completely accept the presence of a new character representing a series that's been dead for over a decade with little-to-no hope for a revival ever happening.

I don't think Medusa is likely at all, but there's not very many franchises in Smash that are less likely to get a newcomer than F-Zero.

 

[WaddleMatt]

If any pre-E3 leak ends up being true, my money's on this one

If this leak is real I will change my profile picture to whatever the next person says I should for 6 months.

 

[Nekoo]

I'm not sure why this new "leak" is gaining so much traction. It has nothing going for it whatsoever and blatantly reads like a wishlist.

I keep hearing people say the "Heroes vs Villains" theme lends credibility to it, but......how, exactly? None of the previous Smash games have had a thematically chosen roster. If anything, this one having a roster specifically centered around a theme makes it even likelier to be fake.

Part of me feels like it's getting the benefit of the doubt because it has a lot of popular picks. It's like Miahstorm and Tower of Smash all over again.

Literally because it is piggybacking Vergeben's leaks who seems to be our only current credible source who said Ridley/Simon/Ice climbers are in since the Reset Era admins decided to not says anything.
And it got Snake before Vergeben said he would be back.

People knows it's 100% bull****. But it's nice to discuss newcomers that people didn't saw likely, like the Porky discussion a while back.

If this leak is real I will change my profile picture to whatever the next person says I should for 6 months.

An anime girl picture looking borderline NSFW.

 

[Jetsurge]

Samurai Goroh and Takamaru are too different but Medusa is possible. Though the question "why" comes to mind since she's neither very popular or important.

It doesn't matter. One because Falcondorf exists and two Samurai Goroh has never appeared outside his vechicle except for his assist trophy so like Captain Falcon like can basically make anything they want his moveset.

 

[WaddleMatt]

An anime girl picture looking borderline NSFW.

I'll keep my promise.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The villain amount is also rather shallow, as only three of the fighters in Smash 3DS / Wii U are true villains, and the amount of heroes in that game also outnumber the rivals / anti-heroes, and neutral characters.

 

[Burb]

Literally because it is piggybacking Vergeben's leaks who seems to be our only current credible source who said Ridley/Simon/Ice climbers are in since the Reset Era admins decided to not says anything.
And it got Snake before Vergeben said he would be back.

Are you guys forgetting that there was a leak that piggybacked off the Ninka leak before it picked up traction, and still ended up being fake?

Or that pretty much every Smash 4 leak that came out after Gematsu became popular was based entirely around Gematsu?

It's natural that fake leaks are going to copy/paste whatever the most "credible" leak says; even what unpopular ones say, on occasion. It doesn't make them likelier to be real.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Like I've brought up already, the Midday and Dusk Forms are 100% quadrupedal, so they wouldn't be able to use certain kinds of items; this includes Barrels, Crates, Party Balls, and even the Daybreak. Midnight Form Lycanroc, however, doesn't have this issue, but it's far less popular than the Dusk Form.

Lycanroc may have a chance as a Poke Ball Pokemon, but making it playable would mean that the developers have to figure out how it can utilize every kind of item in the game.

Also, there's really no such thing as a Pokemon frontrunner anymore, as Greninja was added into Smash 3DS / Wii U before it gained any kind of popularity.

Lycanroc won't be a playable character but being quadrupeds isn't the reason. It can just hold the items in it's mouth like Squirtle did and DHD does. Though you do bring something up. Poke Ball. Lycanroc honestly works better in that regard as it's gimmick from the Pokemon games can't be adapted as a playable character. Having Rockruff appear as a Poke Ball and having it randomly evolve into one of the 3 forms would work well

 

[Jetsurge]

I'm not sure why this new "leak" is gaining so much traction. It has nothing going for it whatsoever and blatantly reads like a wishlist

Maybe because Sakurai looked towards the ballot for the roster

I don't think Medusa is likely at all, but there's not very many franchises in Smash that are less likely to get a newcomer than F-Zero.

Sakurai bias

 

[Burb]

Maybe because Sakurai looked towards the ballot for the roster

I find it incredibly hard to believe that Samurai Goroh, Medusa, Mallow, and Mech Suit Porky were popular ballot picks.

 

[Cosmic77]

People seem even more hesitant to talk about cuts this cycle than in any of the previous ones. A lot of people even have themselves convinced that the ease of porting from Wii U to Switch will prevent there from being any cuts at all.

I think it's overly optimistic and everyone should assume there will be cuts unless told otherwise, but this fandom just loves setting itself up for disappointment.

That aside, it's honestly hard to predict which one's on the chopping block. Given how many Pokemon reps there are, and its history of receiving cuts, I think it's one of the likeliest to have a character cut. And I think it could feasibly be any of them except Pikachu.

Honestly, I can't see any of the Pokemon characters getting cut this time. In a way, no Pokemon characters were cut in the transition from Brawl to Smash 4 (Charizard is the spiritual successor to Pokemon Trainer). I feel like it's between Greninja and Mewtwo. Sakurai has never cut a character just for being irrelevant, so I think Greninja is safe. Mewtwo was DLC and could possibly be cut, but he has such a large following that I can't see it happening.

Six unique non-transformation characters from a popular franchise. I agree that cuts are possible, but I don't think Pokemon is the series that needs to be looked at.

 

[Jetsurge]

The villain amount is also rather shallow, as only three of the fighters in Smash 3DS / Wii U are true villains, and the amount of heroes in that game also outnumber the rivals / anti-heroes, and neutral characters.

If this is real my theory is that there will be some kind of adventure mode where the villains are the bosses of levels themed around their games.

 

[osby]

It doesn't matter. One because Falcondorf exists and two Samurai Goroh has never appeared outside his vechicle except for his assist trophy so like Captain Falcon like can basically make anything they want his moveset.

Both Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are tall, bulky men. You can't give Takamaru's animations to Goroh without breaking the model.

 

[Polan]

I disagree, doing something like "Springman/Rex & Pyra/Gen 8 Pokemon/FE16 rep" would've been unconvincing. Everyone suspects those characters despite how they wouldn't fit with a 2016 project plan. The more you consider the reps on the imgur leak the more sense they make.
For instance, Chorus Kids/Elma/Mimikyu/Dixie all make sense as they had releases around Smash 4's release date (you can include Takamaru here for his Virtual Console debut). All are unique picks in terms of appearance, possible mechanics etc. K. Rool/Goroh/Porky/Wolf/Ridley are villains, recurring characters from their series and interestingly all have featured in Smash before, meaning they already have relevance. The third parties have significant history with Nintendo OR are incredibly popular in their own right. Medusa is the oddest one out.
People talk about how Smash 5 is going to be the next Melee. This roster feels like a Melee-esque roster, like if you picked characters the same way Melee did. Characters added not just because of recency but because of what they add to existing franchises too.

If any pre-E3 leak ends up being true, my money's on this one.

we literally have no name, no source, nothing behind this leak. we don't know if the person that posted the list and the person that posted the pictures are one and the same. there's no insider rumblings to back anyone but ridley and maybe someone from konami. we've heard this bull**** of themed rosters before and its never turned out to be true. not to mention that the leak is predicated on vergeben, a guy with a spotty record, being correct. and some of those choices are lame but thats just my bias talking. honestly this leak isn't giving me "real" feels, its giving me tower of smash flashbacks.

People seem even more hesitant to talk about cuts this cycle than in any of the previous ones. A lot of people even have themselves convinced that the ease of porting from Wii U to Switch will prevent there from being any cuts at all.

I think it's overly optimistic and everyone should assume there will be cuts unless told otherwise, but this fandom just loves setting itself up for disappointment.

That aside, it's honestly hard to predict which one's on the chopping block. Given how many Pokemon reps there are, and its history of receiving cuts, I think it's one of the likeliest to have a character cut. And I think it could feasibly be any of them except Pikachu.

people aren't expecting cuts because there is no developmental roadblock this time around. no ridiculously short dev period, no subspace emissary or last minute additions (that we know of), no second underpowered version, sakurai seems to be more relaxed this time around and its likely that the same team that worked on 4 is back for this one, with all their experience behind them. plus the rumours seems to point to no cuts/minimal cuts. and honestly it would be embarrassing if the next hd smash game launched with less characters than the 3ds version (which nintendo is still selling by the way) but that's just me.

 

[Jetsurge]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that Samurai Goroh, Medusa, Mallow, and Mech Suit Porky were popular ballot picks.

But most of the picks there are and Mallow is paired with Geno who is a popular pick

 

[Zeox]

If this is real my theory is that there will be some kind of adventure mode where the villains are the bosses of levels themed around their games.

That was I was thinking, with enemies like koopas, pigmasks, space pirates, kremlins, waddle doos, etc...
All the armies working together, maybe the villains could be working in duos, making it more interesting on how they would work together.