Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Troykv]

Uniqueness is highly subjective. Ever heard of the Ship of Theseus?

I had heard about the subject, but I didn't know that was the paradox's name

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That is exactly what I believe too.

As this game must have been in developement from right after the launch, or around the start of DLC at least.
I'm sure that, since some of the games were already told to be ported over from Wii U to Switch, I'm sure Sakurai and his team thought out way ahead of time that this would be the case too. Therefore, they might have created a new game with assets from SSB4. So it would be easier to work off.

If this is the case. then the developement time will be shorter, and there would be less cut if any, and on the contrary actually make it possible for previous cuts to get more focus on. Expecting Wolf, Ice Climbers and maybe even Pichu, I kid you not. Sakurai says they are his babies, and that each character holds a place in his heart, and the fans of said characters.

As also mentioned, Sakurai does not really think about who he would like to cut. If any are cut, it's because of time constrains, or lack of resources. Clones? Sakurai loves them, and they gives an alternative spin on other gameplay mechanics. Therefore, they have been presence since the start, and would be weird to cut out entirely. (Haters gonna hate)

So, if it is true that this eventually started as a type of port, but got time and developement to create a new title in the series, it is easier to think that there will be less cuts, if any at all, and more focus on newer content and perhaps a look back at previous content. People are too quick on the trigger to call out the chopping block, geez.

Still, I'm really looking forward to sleepless nights wondering about who could be next. Assist Trophies, Music, Modes, Alternative Costumes, everything Smash Related. I've really missed this traffic on this board.

If Pichu comes back, I will SCREAM.

He's not one of my favorite Pokemon, but he's one of my favorite newcomers. Pikachu is an icon and he DESERVES a clone of his own.

I also find joke characters to be fun. It adds personality to the game and its developer.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I have a question for you (and everyone interested).

What kind of characters you actually consider unique?

When Smash 4 came out, and for a couple years after, I frequently attended tournaments. As a competitive player, i find every single character unique. The only exception being Dark Pit, who I actually saw the most success with in bracket hilariously enough. Other clones, like Lucina, aren't unique at all to the casual/average players eye, and that's fine. But from my perspective, I would pick Marth over Lucina or vice versa in different situations because the way the operate is still different from each other. Dark Pit and Pit I think are the only characters that are fairly interchangeable. Even high-level Pit/Dark Pit players will switch which one they play based on matchup. Lucina and Marth players don't really do that, and Mario players don't really play Doc. All the characters are different enough to boast their own level of uniqueness.

 

[N3ON]

I'm lowkey hoping you're keeping a whole bunch of these posts in mind so you can do a SmashBoards Thread Simulator video like this one:

We need more of these tbh.



I'd feel it's a little ridiculous if FE gets ONE new character tbh, just because I feel like it's inevitably going to happen anyway that I wouldn't be able to process FE getting nothing in the way of new playable characters.

John really makes this video. xD

And omg I remember the Moon Knights. Sworn enemies of the Neon Heels.
Looks like they were no match after all, eh Holder of the Heel

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I had heard about the subject, but I didn't know that was the paradox's name

Well discussing clones and their "uniqueness" falls under the same category of it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well discussing clones and their "uniqueness" falls under the same category of it.

Clones actually have unique attributes, so it's not really a paradox.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

If Pichu comes back, I will SCREAM.

He's not one of my favorite Pokemon, but he's one of my favorite newcomers. Pikachu is an icon and he DESERVES a clone of his own.

I also find joke characters to be fun. It adds personality to the game and its developer.

Now, what I love about Pichu, is how rubbish he was in Melee. And that was sort of why I loved him. I think the concept of a "glass canon" fighter like Pichu were in theory, a great concept. It was just rushed and poorly excecuted. A return of Pichu, being this light and quite powerful character with the expense of damaging yourself, is a risky experience that no other character in the series got. That alone is very remarkable, and I would love to see the concept reintroduced. Pichu would be nice to see back for that matter.

Also thanks for the flattery, I appreciate it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Can I be honest about something?

I don’t understand all the hate for Corrin.

She’s unique, popular, and brings something other than the generic sword user to Fire Emblem representation.

I think most people dislike her because she was added on to the roster when people though there was already enough Fire Emblem representation.

The only "generic" swordsman we have are Roy and Lucina. Marth, Ike and Robin are all mechanically unique characters.

Also, a good number of people also dislike Corrin because of the fact his inclusion had nothing to do with fan demand, in addition to the inevitable hype backlash that was going to happen due to how much the final DLC direct was hyped by fans and Nintendo.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Clones actually have unique attributes, so it's not really a paradox.

The paradox doesn't work exactly as I don't know an actual paradox that fits the situation.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

This is an earlier post, but I thought I would respond to it cause why not.

I'm surprised so many people think Smash for Switch will be an entirely new game. It feels far too soon after the release of Smash 4. I know the title is still in the works, but that's probably because they don't need to say "Smash for Switch" like they did for Wii U and 3DS because there aren't multiple platforms this will be released on that could cause buying confusion. If it were a brand new entry does it really make sense that they have been working on it all this time without giving it a proper name, and start to tease it to the public without having decided on one when the game is slated to release in less than 10 months? It's more likely that they want to build hype by generating speculation, then to instead suggest to players it's mostly a straight up port and disappoint them right out the gate. Better to slap a new name on the same base game with new graphics, characters, stages, modes and the like enough that people can consider it mostly new.

Sure, maybe this game will have similar mechanics to its previous game, but I doubt it's just a straight-up "deluxe" port. And who said that they haven't decided on the game's title yet? Keep in mind that since Sm4sh came out 4 years ago, we haven't heard anything about a new Smash title from Nintendo, and this teaser trailer came out of nowhere. Who knows what else they've been hiding from our public speculative eyes?

And if you look, yeah sure it's BotW Link, but Mario looks the same, no Cappy from Odyssey, it wouldn't make sense for their flagship character to not be updated as well to reflect his Switch incarnation. The same is true for Zelda, she's still her Twilight Princess version from the trailer screenwriter I've seen. More likely than not BotW Link is just a slightly modified standalone clone like Lucina is to Martha, keep in mind all the Links are from different timelines and are technically separate characters.

Allow me to point out that Mario also had a similar design when Brawl came out after Melee, and nothing about his initial design suggested he had FLUDD on him. In fact, the only way you could see FLUDD was if it was used in-game as his Down Special. Same thing could be happening with this Mario in the next Smash title. As for Zelda, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, since it's too hard to make out from that distance. BotW Link being a standalone clone makes zero sense because up until this point, the only "clones" we've seen of him is Majora's Mask Link from Melee, who was changed to Wind Waker Link in Brawl and Sm4sh to represent Link in his kid form, not just a Link from a different timeline.

Also, the game releases this year, which only has 9 months left. People already forget that with Smash for Wii U/3DS, Nintendo started building up hype well over a year in advance of launch, with small teases and character information tidbits leading up until launch proper over a year later. No such deliberate fanfare here it seems, they don't even have the name nailed down and it releases soon.

Like I said before, who said they haven't decided on a name yet? And I think the reason as to why they aren't building hype the way you describe is probably the same reason as to why they stayed super quiet with Breath of the Wild's Champion's Ballad DLC, waiting right until the DLC's release date to post a trailer. They could have been working on this game right after releasing Sm4sh and alongside Breath of the Wild, and we wouldn't know.

Just looking at the poll I think there's a lot if wishful thinking going on is all, I think it's more realistin that Nintendo is making a really great definitive port with tons of new bells and whistles than making a whole new game.

Even if that were the case, it's pretty odd that Nintendo released official trailers for ports like Mario Kart 8, Hyrule Warriors, and Bayonetta 2, and didn't do the same for this Smash title. Why leave us in the dark... and quite literally, might I add?

 

[Pepperoni_Lives]

I don't know if this is off topic or not, but I am so happy the Smash hype train is back in business. I am so ready for the oodles of speculation and leaks. God, it's good to be back.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Hi, everyone! I've decided to stop lurking and start contributing. Here are some of my predictions for the upcoming game.

I believe, based on the evidence we have seen, that this is an entirely new title. However I think that they will be pulling a ton of assets from Smash for Wii U as that game was fairly well balanced, animations were clean, and models were clean and HD. Obviously they will be touching up the models and changing around the balance, but they will hardly be working from scratch. I expect the initial roster to be between 50 and 60 characters. My initial thoughts were that we were going to see heavy cuts plus a lot of post-launch DLC support to pad the roster, but when you think about the assets that are already well polished from Wii U, the only veterans that should have larger-than-average workloads will be third party characters who have licensing concerns. I think Miis will be gone, but other than that I expect no more than one or two cuts, if any at all.

 

[NintenRob]

The only problem with new game announcements, is that now when I wake. I've missed like ten pages.

Did I miss anything?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've said this before, but I am kinda hoping we'll get something similar to the pics of the day again.

Just, give us less filler. Please. The filler pics rarely led to anything but very short-lived memes.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I don't know if this is off topic or not, but I am so happy the Smash hype train is back in business. I am so ready for the oodles of speculation and leaks. God, it's good to be back.

I'm loving it, too. It's so much fun to be on this train when it starts.

 

[PeridotGX]

I've said this before, but I am kinda hoping we'll get something similar to the pics of the day again.

Just, give us less filler. Please. The filler pics rarely led to anything but very short-lived memes.

They probably will. Remember, the Switch has the news system.


Anyways, do you think the Switch/3DS ports of Captian Toad have much effect on his Smash prospects? I think they do, but I want to hear what you think.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I've said this before, but I am kinda hoping we'll get something similar to the pics of the day again.

Just, give us less filler. Please. The filler pics rarely led to anything but very short-lived memes.

I think that with the smaller time between reveal of the game and the launch of the game, any pic-of-the-day things we could get will be more significant than Smash 4's pictures. I'm personally hoping they post 3-4 pictures a week on Twitter or something. Still slowly spoonfeeding information, but not leaving us wondering why the cosmos are found under Rosalina's dress.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I've said this before, but I am kinda hoping we'll get something similar to the pics of the day again.

Just, give us less filler. Please. The filler pics rarely led to anything but very short-lived memes.

I'll take filler pics rather than no pics.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

The only "generic" swordsman we have are Roy and Lucina. Marth, Ike and Robin are all mechanically unique characters.

Also, a good number of people also dislike Corrin because of the fact his inclusion had nothing to do with fan demand, in addition to the inevitable hype backlash that was going to happen due to how much the final DLC direct was hyped by fans and Nintendo.

That’s the fans fault for overhyping the Direct, and thinking that every character included was going to be catered towards them. Mewtwo was fan demand. Roy was fan demand. Lucas was fan demand. From what I can gather, no one, but a small minority asked for Ryu or Cloud. Corrin wasn’t fan demand, but it’s also Sakurai’s game at the end of the day. He’ll add who he sees fit. Whether it be for his own fancy, promotional purposes, or fan demand. He has said before that while he tries to cater to fans as much as he can, he will do what he wants with his game.

Also, Lucina and Marth have the same play style. Therefore, to call one a generic swordsman and not the other is a flaw in your argument. Roy plays more uniquely than Lucina. Also, what I meant by generic swordsman was they use swords and that’s it. Robin uses magic and Corrin uses it’s dragon transformation. Even when it’s just one part of their body. Marth, Ike, Robin, and Corrin are unique. Roy semi. And Lucina is a full clone.

I just don’t understand the hate for a unique character to return. Not as DLC this time, but just in general on the roster

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Clones? Sakurai loves them, and they gives an alternative spin on other gameplay mechanics. Therefore, they have been presence since the start, and would be weird to cut out entirely. (Haters gonna hate)

I was thinking about the clones that would tick me off and the clones I would accept.
Let's start with the bad kids list: Doctor Luigi, Daisy, Pink Gold Peach, Dry Bowser, Raccoon Mario, Cat Peach, Pikachu Libre, Black Mewetwo, Funky Kong, Ms. Pacman.
Clones I would accept: Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land as clone of Pacman, Braixen as clone of Fox Mc Cloud, Shadow or Metal Sonic as clones of Sonic, Wolf Link and Amaterasu as clone of each other.

 

[WiFi]

Lucas, Roy, and Doc made it back through fan demand, thus, Wolf and K.Rool might actually be in SSwitch.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Anyways, do you think the Switch/3DS ports of Captian Toad have much effect on his Smash prospects? I think they do, but I want to hear what you think.

Ports don't really mean anything, they're buy-and-large the same game, just with a few new bells and whistles to convince players who purchased the original game to pay for it again.

These ports of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker aren't gonna stick the Captain Toad needle in Smash any further, but that's because it's already at a place where it should result in something.

tl;dr if Captain Toad is getting in, it's gonna because of the original game, not the ports.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I was thinking about the clones that would tick me off and the clones I would accept.
Let's start with the bad kids list: Doctor Luigi, Daisy, Pink Gold Peach, Dry Bowser, Raccoon Mario, Cat Peach, Pikachu Libre, Black Mewetwo, Funky Kong, Ms. Pacman.
Clones I would accept: Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land as clone of Pacman, Braixen as clone of Fox Mc Cloud, Shadow or Metal Sonic as clones of Sonic, Wolf Link and Amaterasu as clone of each other.

Clones I'd accept, but, would also love to see them with their own moves too if anything are;

Black Shadow = Just to get another F-Zero character, but he is too good for being a clone, he got dark magic and ****, but we see how Ganondorf with similar traits went... I'd even take Blood Falcon, I'm desperate lol.

And there stops my list of clones.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Alright, when do we think the game is dropping?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Also, Lucina and Marth have the same play style. Therefore, to call one a generic swordsman and not the other is a flaw in your argument.

They may have similarities but the biggest difference is that Lucina is in many ways just Marth but without the tipper mechanic that fundamentally made him stand out from everyone else when he was included as a playable character (though that does give her her own strengths and weaknesses in relation to Marth).

Also, Cloud was the most highly requested Final Fantasy character so there was demand for him.

Also, what I meant by generic swordsman was they use swords and that’s it.

Ah that makes sense.

 

[WiFi]

Captain Toad wouldn't work in Smash, he doesn't even fight in his own games.

Game will probably be released in November, around the time SSB4 was released. Christmas sales are gud.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Alright, when do we think the game is dropping?

September is my guess, though I think November-December is also pretty likely.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Captain Toad wouldn't work in Smash, he doesn't even fight in his own games.

I think Captain Toad could easily fit, but honestly, when I think of Toad, and I believe Toad will be in this game.
Captain Toad would be better suited as an Alternative Costume to Toad, like Alph and the Koopalings were.

Why? It would be easier to create a move-set out of Toad, instead of Cap'n's no jump situation.
I would not mind this solution, but I do strongly believe Toad, in some way will be there.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I think Captain Toad could easily fit, but honestly, when I think of Toad, and I believe Toad will be in this game.
Captain Toad would be better suited as an Alternative Costume to Toad, like Alph and the Koopalings were.

Why? It would be easier to create a move-set out of Toad, instead of Cap'n's no jump situation.
I would not mind this solution, but I do strongly believe Toad, in some way will be there.

At the end of the day I'd prefer a moveset involving Mario series items and power-ups from Toad than something based on Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from Captain Toad.

 

[SlickWylde]

Alright, when do we think the game is dropping?

Between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

 

[N3ON]

Alright, when do we think the game is dropping?

september

 

[Holder of the Heel]

John really makes this video. xD

And omg I remember the Moon Knights. Sworn enemies of the Neon Heels.
Looks like they were no match after all, eh Holder of the Heel

Gosh I remember that but I'm not entirely sure why it started to become a thing. Probably all from John's head and whatever's in it, no doubt. Maybe me as well because I was kinda weird too back then. And definitely not now.

Wish I could go back and read some of that old insanity. Or maybe I'd regret it lol....

The best moment will forever be the infamous "she is so moe" day though hahahaha!

 

[Hokori]

I've said this before, but I am kinda hoping we'll get something similar to the pics of the day again.

Just, give us less filler. Please. The filler pics rarely led to anything but very short-lived memes.

Ah, I miss not going to sleep/waking up early to see the PotD. Good times, good times.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Alright, when do we think the game is dropping?

I believe it will come out before November. I think it might be in September alongside the paid online service.

 

[MimicMime]

I'd love to see Mimikyu in this game. That would be sick, honestly....

 

[IronTed]

Alright, when do we think the game is dropping?

September for me

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

They may have similarities but the biggest difference is that Lucina is in many ways just Marth but without the tipper mechanic that fundamentally made him stand out from everyone else when he was included as a playable character (though that does give her her own strengths and weaknesses in relation to Marth).

Also, Cloud was the most highly requested Final Fantasy character so there was demand for him.



Ah that makes sense.

That tipper mechanic is not enough of a difference to say Lucina has a unique play style. At least in my opinion.

I know Cloud had demand, but as I said, it was from a small minority of fans. How many Smash fans in turn are also Final Fantasy fans? It’s probably not that significant a number.

And of course if Final Fantasy had ever been a possibility before Cloud’s inclusion (which almost no one thought it was.) Of course it would be Cloud who is chosen. He is Mr. JRPG. Mr. Final Fantasy.

Also, I’m not talking about Cloud. I want Cloud to come back too. He’s unique. Just. Like. Corrin.

 

[PeridotGX]

Captain Toad wouldn't work in Smash, he doesn't even fight in his own games.

Niether do Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Rob, Captian Falcon, etc. I'm not saying Captian Toad's a shoe in, but he has much bigger hurdles to jump (or find a way not to jump).

I'd love to see Mimikyu in this game. That would be sick, honestly....

Mimikyu's the second most likely Gen 7 Pokémon, IMO.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Lucas, Roy, and Doc made it back through fan demand, thus, Wolf and K.Rool might actually be in SSwitch.

That isn't how that works.

I am a fan
I demand Karl Marx in the game.
Lucas, Roy, and Doc made it back through fan demand
thus Karl Marx might actually be in SSwitch

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

That isn't how that works.

I am a fan
I demand Karl Marx in the game.
Lucas, Roy, and Doc made it back through fan demand
thus Karl Marx might actually be in SSwitch

I mean that comparison is reaching a bit. By the time DLC was finished being released, Sakurai had stated that he knew what his next project was, that presumably being the new Smash. Its very possible he was saving some of these high-demand ballot characters such as K Rool for the new game. I'm certainly not keeping my hopes up for K Rool or Wolf specifically, but the ballot is almost certainly having an effect on some of the characters chosen for this game.