Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MamaLuigi123456]

In regards to the Fire Emblem cast increasing in number for Smash 5 - if that happens... cool? I guess? I personally don't care one way or the other because I don't believe in the concept of overrepresentation (just give me a good roster with fun characters and I'm good), and while I'm less fond of Fire Emblem characters than, say, Mario or Pokemon characters, I can learn to like them.

Anyways, earlier I mentioned my theory that Smash 5 could become a service-type deal, where we start off launch with a roster of essential vets and newcomers, then through free updates the roster would increase. In terms of how many characters we get, I'd say the roster at launch would be smaller than Smash 4, being in the 35-45 range, and with all updates I can see that number increasing to somewhere in the 65-75 range, give or take a few depending on a number of factors (how long they support the game, how often we get characters, etc.).

Thoughts on this?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm surprised so many people think Smash for Switch will be an entirely new game. It feels far too soon after the release of Smash 4. I know the title is still in the works, but that's probably because they don't need to say "Smash for Switch" like they did for Wii U and 3DS because there aren't multiple platforms this will be released on that could cause buying confusion. If it were a brand new entry does it really make sense that they have been working on it all this time without giving it a proper name, and start to tease it to the public without having decided on one when the game is slated to release in less than 10 months? It's more likely that they want to build hype by generating speculation, then to instead suggest to players it's mostly a straight up port and disappoint them right out the gate. Better to slap a new name on the same base game with new graphics, characters, stages, modes and the like enough that people can consider it mostly new.

And if you look, yeah sure it's BotW Link, but Mario looks the same, no Cappy from Odyssey, it wouldn't make sense for their flagship character to not be updated as well to reflect his Switch incarnation. The same is true for Zelda, she's still her Twilight Princess version from the trailer screenwriter I've seen. More likely than not BotW Link is just a slightly modified standalone clone like Lucina is to Martha, keep in mind all the Links are from different timelines and are technically separate characters.

Also, the game releases this year, which only has 9 months left. People already forget that with Smash for Wii U/3DS, Nintendo started building up hype well over a year in advance of launch, with small teases and character information tidbits leading up until launch proper over a year later. No such deliberate fanfare here it seems, they don't even have the name nailed down and it releases soon.

Just looking at the poll I think there's a lot if wishful thinking going on is all, I think it's more realistin that Nintendo is making a really great definitive port with tons of new bells and whistles than making a whole new game.

I think it's unreasonable to assume Zelda's design based on an edited picture someone drew on. We don't even know if that's Zelda. It's the least visible character of the silhouettes.

The characters that get redesigned are most likely gonna be Link, Zelda, Villager, Fox, & Falco. Maybe Samus from Metroid: Samus Returns.

As for revamped move sets, we could possibly get Mario with a hat throw, Alph as his own character, and probably an entirely different Ganondorf.

 

[IronTed]

Hmmm... Sheik but no Zelda.

I hope this doesn't mean Zelda and Sheik are back together as one.

I don't think we should be jumping to conclusions yet, especially with such little information.

But yeah, hopefully they remain separate.

 

[DraginHikari]

how would people feel in general if this next smash game got NO new FE characters? and instead brought everyone from 4 back? plus a largely reworked Lucina? i think that might be the "safest" option when it comes to appeasing the fanbase in general

I'm not really expecting that to happen. Frankly, it might come off as too safe and far too willing to bank on the roster of the previous title rather then consider other options.

I don't think they should be afraid to cut characters based on potential backlash since on the internet everything causes backlash.

 

[Arcadenik]

Reminds me of when we used to think we'd just get the Brawl Pokemon + Mewtwo in Smash 4.

I am so thankful that didn't happen.

Yes, I miss Squirtle and Ivysaur... but I am glad we got Greninja. That was pretty cool.

I hope we get more than one Pokémon newcomer in Smash Switch.

*dreams about Meowth (with Alola Meowth alt) and Decidueye*

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Mwa ha ha ha... I'm definitely going to remember this post.

I'm lowkey hoping you're keeping a whole bunch of these posts in mind so you can do a SmashBoards Thread Simulator video like this one:

We need more of these tbh.

how would people feel in general if this next smash game got NO new FE characters? and instead brought everyone from 4 back? plus a largely reworked Lucina? i think that might be the "safest" option when it comes to appeasing the fanbase in general

I'd feel it's a little ridiculous if FE gets ONE new character tbh, just because I feel like it's inevitably going to happen anyway that I wouldn't be able to process FE getting nothing in the way of new playable characters.

 

[IronTed]

Considering both Brawl and 4 cut characters, unless this game is a deluxe port (which is being assumed to not be the case) there will likely be cuts of some kind, especially with such a large roster.

 

[DraginHikari]

Considering both Brawl and 4 cut characters, unless this game is a deluxe port (which is being assumed to be not the case) there will likely be cuts of some kind, especially with such a large roster.

I think people need to keep this in mind especially if it's a new game. To assume there will be no cuts to Smash 4 current roster and still have new characters is a bit too unrealistic to expect.

 

[MSmariosonic]

So how long will we wait until we get some more information? Surely before E3.
Despite the game releasing within 9 months it's still killing me... ugh

 

[Holder of the Heel]

An entirely new installment or a deluxe edition of the Wii U/3DS games? Hmmm...



My bold prediction is we will get Smash Bros. on the Switch!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

While we could start overanalyzing everything and reading real deep into the minimal evidence we have... we could also just wait until they show gameplay and then it'll be pretty simple to tell if we're dealing with a completely new game or not...

^This.

We barely know anything about the game from the brief teaser we got. It's on the Switch, the Inklings are part of the roster, and some obvious veterans are returning. That's it. That's all we have, that's actually clear enough, anyway.

I don't want speculation to just be put to a halt or anything, but there's also very little reason to keep analyzing what very little we currently have as well as drawing conclusions from there. Give it some time. We don't know yet when we'll be getting more information, but if the game really is releasing just later this year, then new info can't be that far off from now.

 

[Bowserlick]

Cut characters from Brawl to Sm4sh:

• Wolf
• Lucas (returned as DL)
• Snake
• Squirtle
• Ivysaur
• Ice Climbers

There will be cuts.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Cut characters from Brawl to Sm4sh:

• Wolf
• Lucas (returned as DL)
• Snake
• Squirtle
• Ivysaur
• Ice Climbers

There will be cuts.

Not if it's a port there won't

 

[Arcadenik]

Looks like everyone got Inkling correct on their rosters.

So far, everyone's a rockstar.

Inkling was practically the "free space" on everyone's individual Smash newcomer bingo card.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Every playable Pokemon that's been in a Smash game so far + a new Pokemon fighter or two.

Depending on who the newcomer(s) would be, specifically, that would be a pipe dream of mine.

 

[IronTed]

I think people need to keep this in mind especially if it's a new game. To assume there will be no cuts to Smash 4 current roster and still have new characters is a bit too unrealistic to expect.

Maybe we'll just lose a clone or too, but you can never be sure.

Melee to Brawl was mostly clones, except for Mewtwo, which was the big shock.

Brawl to 4 is nicely listed by Bowserlick , and we see clones and a third party cut. Ice Climbers was due to limitations (thankfully that isn't a problem anymore), and the Pokemon Trainer is another obvious one (no more transformation characters).

We'll probably lose a clone or two, a third party, and an original character going by precedent.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't think they should be afraid to cut characters based on potential backlash since on the internet everything causes backlash.

Are you seriously suggesting Nintendo should take game advice from whiners on the INTERNET? Whiners who claim clones are "lazy" because they don't understand how video game development works?

 

[Curious Villager]

We might have to wait until E3 before we get any more info on the game. Though I'm pretty sure we will be seeing plenty of rumors and "leaks" to keep us busy until then...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

We might have to wait until E3 before we get any more info on the game. Though I'm pretty sure we will be seeing plenty of rumors and "leaks" to keep us busy until then...

The most fun ones will be the ridiculous ones.

 

[Deleted member]

Man Super Smash Bros. and Masahiro Sakurai they know how to keep us excited eh? Don't know if it's a port or not I'm 50/50 but boy I can't wait.

 

[DraginHikari]

Not if it's a port there won't

If it's a port then I suggest people lower their expectations as they are likely to include fewer new characters. I really think they're putting too much attempt to raise hype for just a base port of a last generation game.

Maybe we'll just lose a clone or too, but you can never be sure.

Melee to Brawl was mostly clones, except for Mewtwo, which was the big shock.

Brawl to 4 is nicely listed by Bowserlick , and we see clones and a third party cut. Ice Climbers was due to limitations (thankfully that isn't a problem anymore), and the Pokemon Trainer is another obvious one (no more transformation characters).

We'll probably lose a clone or two, a third party, and an original character going by precedent.

The biggest thing is that a hype driver of each Smash game has been the newcomers they bring into each new title. I don't think simply removing the clones will be enough to be able to provide that. Smash 4 brought the roster size to probably as big as it can physically be so something is going to be lost in the desire to create hype through new characters.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

As for revamped move sets, we could possibly get Mario with a hat throw

That would be awesome and such an addition wouldn't surprise me.

But oh god I want Mario to have a design change so badly but I know it is not going to happen. If Mario was hypothetically introduced into Smash in the 3DS/Wii U editions I'm convinced he'd have far more creativity and nods to how he moves in his own games. Smash Mario is almost like a completely different entity to me and it's kinda a shame, not that I hate what it is. I just think he's tied down in his homage to the original set he was given in the 64 game, much like how Ganondorf, however wholly different he is from Falcon, is still tied down by the original framework set by the Captain.

Some of what I mean could be applied to Luigi, but to a lesser degree probably.

 

[SlickWylde]

I'm lowkey hoping you're keeping a whole bunch of these posts in mind so you can do a SmashBoards Thread Simulator video like this one:

We need more of these tbh.



I'd feel it's a little ridiculous if FE gets ONE new character tbh, just because I feel like it's inevitably going to happen anyway that I wouldn't be able to process FE getting nothing in the way of new playable characters.

OMG I remember John, and his profile pic. Nice n3on cameo too hahaha

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't think Cappy will APPEAR, but Mario will probably still have the hat throw. Kind of like in the first trailer for Odyssey where he could throw his hat without Cappy's eyes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If it's a port then I suggest people lower their expectations as they are likely to include fewer new characters. I really think they're putting too much attempt to raise hype for just a base port of a last generation game.

People should do this in general. We know nearly nothing about the game other than Link getting a redesign and Inklings being included. Best to wait for new info imo

 

[Z1GMA]

If it's an entirely new Smash Game, I'm hyped!

If it is what I'm afraid it is, it sucks.
(Meaning they want to sell us the same game a 3rd time.)

Then again, a new game makes sense, cuz Sakurai said he's done with smash 4 a year ago.

 

[DraginHikari]

People should do this in general. We know nearly nothing about the game other than Link getting a redesign and Inklings being included. Best to wait for new info imo

Nintendo basically raised the hype train with the minimalist trailer, the speculation bubble is going to be pretty impossible to deflate at this point. So basically Nintendo got what they probably wanted out of the trailer.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Took me 100 years reading through this, to see old friends on the hypetrain.
I'm serious... We create a new bloody page each 5 minutes. And you know what? I love it...

SMASH'S BACK BABY!!!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

People are calling cuts WAY too soon.

I think Mario Tennis Aces is a good comparison to what this new game probably is. Mario Tennis Aces uses models from Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, but updates some of them and puts them in an ENTIRELY new game.

Super Smash Bros can reuse the already developed characters from Super Smash Bros for Wii U, update some, and put them in a COMPLETELY new game. Especially since very little of them have changed over the past four years. That's probably what they did if they managed to make a 2018 release date.

Who knows. But, I think it's offensive and obnoxious to be calling cuts this soon until we have more information.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

We are not going to see any cuts if it's a port. That's a pretty safe bet to make.

I do expect some cuts if it's a new game, but who they are is going to be tough to determine. Correct if I'm wrong but I'm near positive Sakurai has stated he doesn't like making cuts. For the most part, it's fair to assume that he does all he can to avoid cutting characters.

I suspect most of the cuts we have will, once again (if we assume it's a new game, that is) largely be due to the characters being lower priority, for reasons that vary, and simply not being completed in time, or in the case of third parties, legal matters and whether the companies involved want a character to return or not to begin with. Hardware limitations was what caused the ICs to be left out last time, but that shouldn't be an issue for the Switch. Lower priority characters may still eventually return in the form of DLC, but don't get your hopes up for everyone that may get left out.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm lowkey hoping you're keeping a whole bunch of these posts in mind so you can do a SmashBoards Thread Simulator video like this one:

We need more of these tbh.



I'd feel it's a little ridiculous if FE gets ONE new character tbh, just because I feel like it's inevitably going to happen anyway that I wouldn't be able to process FE getting nothing in the way of new playable characters.

I still think it's funny that my initial "OH MY GOD" thing was actually well before the update popped up.
It was to troll people who were waiting for it since it was taking so long :V

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Has anyone discussed that the Wii U and 3DS might be filler games (like Tennis Smash and Aces) in comparison to the Switch version?

 

[Bowserlick]

People are calling cuts WAY too soon.

I think Mario Tennis Aces is a good comparison to what this new game probably is. Mario Tennis Aces uses models from Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, but updates some of them and puts them in an ENTIRELY new game.

Super Smash Bros can reuse the already developed characters from Super Smash Bros for Wii U, update some, and put them in a COMPLETELY new game. Especially since very little of them have changed over the past four years. That's probably what they did if they managed to make a 2018 release date.

Who knows. But, I think it's offensive and obnoxious to be calling cuts this soon until we have more information.

Predicting cuts is not obnoxious.

I agree that Smash Switch will reuse many resources from the last game. I think they will want to add a new mechanic/theme to make the game seem more original and streamline/improve areas like single-player and custom moves.

A straight port would most likely include all Sm4sh characters, but not necessarily a new game borrowing heavily from the latest. Melee and Brawl had cuts.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

We need more of these tbh.

Oh God, I remember this video, not to mention the whole incident that led to it's creation.

My older posts are so freaking cringe-worthy. >_<

 

[SlickWylde]

Unpopular Opinion (I think?):
Even if it is a new game, I think Mario will have the exact same moveset as he did in Brawl and Sm4sh.

Edit: I'm glad I didn't make an appearance in that video. I used to be kinda jerk and make fun of people for their high expectations. Got lectured by the mods a few times lol.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Unpopular Opinion (I think?):
Even if it is a new game, I think Mario will have the exact same moveset as he did in Brawl and Sm4sh.

I'm 50 and 50 on that. I'm not gonna throw out the possibility that his down+b has changed but people expecting a brand new moveset involving Cappy are in for a let down.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

That is exactly what I believe too.

As this game must have been in developement from right after the launch, or around the start of DLC at least.
I'm sure that, since some of the games were already told to be ported over from Wii U to Switch, I'm sure Sakurai and his team thought out way ahead of time that this would be the case too. Therefore, they might have created a new game with assets from SSB4. So it would be easier to work off.

If this is the case. then the developement time will be shorter, and there would be less cut if any, and on the contrary actually make it possible for previous cuts to get more focus on. Expecting Wolf, Ice Climbers and maybe even Pichu, I kid you not. Sakurai says they are his babies, and that each character holds a place in his heart, and the fans of said characters.

As also mentioned, Sakurai does not really think about who he would like to cut. If any are cut, it's because of time constrains, or lack of resources. Clones? Sakurai loves them, and they gives an alternative spin on other gameplay mechanics. Therefore, they have been presence since the start, and would be weird to cut out entirely. (Haters gonna hate)

So, if it is true that this eventually started as a type of port, but got time and developement to create a new title in the series, it is easier to think that there will be less cuts, if any at all, and more focus on newer content and perhaps a look back at previous content. People are too quick on the trigger to call out the chopping block, geez.

Still, I'm really looking forward to sleepless nights wondering about who could be next. Assist Trophies, Music, Modes, Alternative Costumes, everything Smash Related. I've really missed this traffic on this board.

 

[Troykv]

It’s “unique.” It’s literally just a thing they can do. It makes for one gimmick move in the entire moveset. It doesn’t define the character’s gameplay.

I have a question for you (and everyone interested).

What kind of characters you actually consider unique?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I have a question for you (and everyone interested).

What kind of characters you actually consider unique?

Uniqueness is highly subjective. Ever heard of the Ship of Theseus?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That is exactly what I believe too.

As this game must have been in developement from right after the launch, or around the start of DLC at least.
I'm sure that, since some of the games were already told to be ported over from Wii U to Switch, I'm sure Sakurai and his team thought out way ahead of time that this would be the case too. Therefore, they might have created a new game with assets from SSB4. So it would be easier to work off.

If this is the case. then the developement time will be shorter, and there would be less cut if any, and on the contrary actually make it possible for previous cuts to get more focus on. Expecting Wolf, Ice Climbers and maybe even Pichu, I kid you not. Sakurai says they are his babies, and that each character holds a place in his heart, and the fans of said characters.

As also mentioned, Sakurai does not really think about who he would like to cut. If any are cut, it's because of time constrains, or lack of resources. Clones? Sakurai loves them, and they gives an alternative spin on other gameplay mechanics. Therefore, they have been presence since the start, and would be weird to cut out entirely. (Haters gonna hate)

So, if it is true that this eventually started as a type of port, but got time and developement to create a new title in the series, it is easier to think that there will be less cuts, if any at all, and more focus on newer content and perhaps a look back at previous content. People are too quick on the trigger to call out the chopping block, geez.

Still, I'm really looking forward to sleepless nights wondering about who could be next. Assist Trophies, Music, Modes, Alternative Costumes, everything Smash Related. I've really missed this traffic on this board.

I have officially fell in love with you and your words.