Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Leclair]

Yasss !!! Is it a «new» game tho?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

He most likely took a break from February through May/June that year. Which I guess is still substantial time for a break.

Although with his recent Famitsu columns it makes me curious if there's going to be a X2 character in the next Smash or not because Sakurai only played the game this past holiday season. My guess is yes but who's to say.

The feeling is mutual but I think t's inevitable. Everything is aligning too much for it not to happen.

Although I do feel a character or two is getting cut from the FE roster currently.

I don't speak German but that's more or less what we already know just by skimming it.

The reason I say February is because he said "it's less like I’m taking a break, and more like I’m taking a breather for a moment."

 

[Deathlightning21]

Corrin should stay in, at least he plays different. And Lucina could always be a skin for Marth.

Not necessarily, just because someone plays differently doesn't really mean they should stay. Also, Corrin has seen a decrease in popularity sense the release of Fates. The female Corrin dropping to 9th in the CYL polls and the male version barely touching top 10.

Better to keep them for a later version than take up a marketing spot.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Yasss !!! Is it a «new» game tho?

Nobody «knows»

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Corrin's from the best selling Fire Emblem game so Corrin's likely gonna stay. Just... Please make the female version the default

 

[Deleted member]

I think you mean it doesn't have everything to do with being a starter.

Starters are naturally predisposed to promotion and likelier to accrue popularity than your average mon, which puts them at an intrinsic advantage as far as desirable Smash qualities go.

Not quite exactly what I'm getting at.

Yes, being a Starter gives a Pokémon more exposure and promotion by default, and that exposure helps put its name out there in the community, but it being a Starter itself isn't the reason why it has the odds for Smash. Just what that Starter status lead to.

This is because a Pokémon doesn't have to be a Starter to get such promotion, such as Mimikyu and Bewear, who could be seen as mascots for the Generation overall with how much exposure and promotion they get.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I do believe Dillon has a shot, but what bothers me is that I rarely see his supporters saying anything. Are they just too timid or absent or i'm just mistaken?

I think the problem with Dillon is that his first two games weren't extremely well received. Most people were mixed on them from what I remember. This new game looks as if it may really change things up though and possibly give the franchise a style of gameplay that suits it much better. Dillon honestly seems like the next most obvious choice as a character from a new IP other than an ARMS character,

 

[Ura]

Corrin's from the best selling Fire Emblem game so Corrin's likely gonna stay. Just... Please make the female version the default

When you account for both versions. Otherwise that's Awakening's claim to fame.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I don't mind another FE character as long as we stay equal with what we had in Sm4sh.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Corrin's from the best selling Fire Emblem game so Corrin's likely gonna stay. Just... Please make the female version the default

Well, let's not forget Fates is made up of Three games in total, so it's pretty easy just to add up the total sales number of the three.

Also, Corrin was added even before Fates came to the west.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, let's not forget Fates is made up of Three games in total, so it's pretty easy just to add up the total sales number of the three.

Also, Corrin was added even before Fates came to the west.

When you account for both versions. Otherwise that's Awakening's claim to fame.

Still counts, and it was to support the argument Corrin's likely to stay

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Since Bandana Dee's in Star Allies (therefore relevant), what are the odds of getting Bandana Dee on the switch? I think the odds are alright.

This seems like the perfect time to include Bandanna Dee. He is as relevant as ever and Sakurai has to stop ignoring his presence in the franchise at some point.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I was gonna make a post with my own thoughts, but I thought replying to this would be appropriate to make my point.

Black Friday and the start of the major shopping season.

Personally, I think it will be announced for mid-to-late November, but delayed until about February 2019. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't see the game making a 2018 release date.

Well, here's some food for thought: Nintendo has been extremely quiet about this Smash title for four years, and they haven't made a website to build hype like they did with Brawl and Sm4sh. In fact, this teaser trailer itself, although mysterious and vague, gives me the impression that they've been working on it for a while now, probably alongside Breath of the Wild after Sm4sh was released, though we don't know how long for.
And this is why...
[Insert obligatory Take That! here]

Spoiler

This is my evidence and (I believe) solid proof this is a new Smash title. Link has been in the past 4 SSB games, and the one notable thing about him is that his overall design has only changed twice. His Ocarina of Time design stayed through SSB64 and Melee, his Twilight Princess design stayed through Brawl and Sm4sh, and now he has his Breath of the Wild design (he's capless and has a bow on his back). Nintendo wouldn't be dumb to release a "deluxe" version of Sm4sh where Link retains his Twilight Princess design despite his most recent appearance being BotW. Not this late, anyhow.

Also, "HAL Laboratory" can be seen in the final 5 seconds of the trailer, and they're the company that helped develop 64, Melee, and Brawl. This got me excited because my BIG hope for the next Smash title is that we get the most beloved mode in the series back: Adventure Mode. HAL not being involved with Sm4sh probably isn't the entire reason why we didn't get it in that game, but I hope that this time around, we aren't gonna be stuck with some Mario Party knockoff mode.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I still say there is no way Lucina gets cut.

She is one of the faces of the series right now. Maybe not Marth levels, but she is probably second place for face-of-the-seriesness. (couldnt think of a better term lol)

 

[Deleted member]

The point is not that the poll has to do with Smash.

The point is that the most common argument used in Decidueye's favor (the "fact" it's the most popular among the Starters) is inaccurate in at least one circle.

The roster likely was decided at least a year or two ago, depending on when production actually started. But with that in mind, that just makes it harder to determine which Pokémon is most likely.

That does make sense.

It's going to have to happen sooner or later.

Based on what? You're not backing up your point.
And just because it will happen doesn't mean I'll be okay with it.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think with the Pokémon newcomer it'll be another Greninja situation. I'm guessing when development of this Smash started all that was shown to the public of gen 7 was that first trailer (maybe). Which isn't a whole lot to go off of, so Sakurai was probably shown early designs of Pokémon and picked one that stood out to him. Who knows who that could be?

 

[LancerStaff]

I still say there is no way Lucina gets cut.

She is one of the faces of the series right now. Maybe not Marth levels, but she is probably second place for face-of-the-seriesness. (couldnt think of a better term lol)

I don’t see why she can’t get reverted to a costume.

Hell, let’s just go all Jr/Koopalings here and load a bunch of FE characters into a single slot. That way people can play as their favorite FE character without overloading the roster with them.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I still say there is no way Lucina gets cut.

She is one of the faces of the series right now. Maybe not Marth levels, but she is probably second place for face-of-the-seriesness. (couldnt think of a better term lol)

I can see Lucina being reworked into her own moveset as a DLC release or secret main roster character. Something akin to her Brave Heroes outfit in FEH.

Spoiler

Other than that, I don't see it happening.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t see why she can’t get reverted to a costume.

Dr. Mario wasn't a costume because he was a veteran.
Same situation here.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dr. Mario wasn't a costume because he was a veteran.
Same situation here.

Nope, I don’t give a ****. That’s a bogus rule.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Also, "HAL Laboratory" can be seen in the final 5 seconds of the trailer, and they're the company that helped develop 64, Melee, and Brawl. This got me excited because my BIG hope for the next Smash title is that we get the most beloved mode in the series back: Adventure Mode. HAL not being involved with Sm4sh probably isn't the entire reason why we didn't get it in that game, but I hope that this time around, we aren't gonna be stuck with some Mario Party knockoff mode.

You might want to look at the final 5 seconds to a Smash for 3DS/Wii U trailer

 

[Deleted member]

I just had a nasty realisation...

This game will likely have it's own amiibo line...

gunshot

WALLET! NOOOOOO!!!!!

Better start working harder in your job just in case if that happens to all of you.
I am sure that they will make a new "Mario Smash Brothers" amibo to earn cash, which makes sense. I would love to see a Smash Brothers Inkling amibo. I love Nintendo, they are great at making me spend money.

Found this in the Bayonetta Discord.

Woah, that actually looks really good! Props to the artist who did that, but I am surprised that this was found in the Bayonetta discord.

 

[Deleted member]

Nope, I don’t give a ****. That’s a bogus rule.

>is biased in an arguement
Lol

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Can I be honest about something?

I don’t understand all the hate for Corrin.

She’s unique, popular, and brings something other than the generic sword user to Fire Emblem representation.

I think most people dislike her because she was added on to the roster when people though there was already enough Fire Emblem representation.

This is a new Smash title. There will be cuts. As far as Fire Emblem goes Lucina and Roy have the gun pointed at them. Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Fire Emblem Switch Character. With Roy as DLC later on possibly. It’d still be 6 characters. All unique, minus Roy who is at least a semi clone and not a full on clone. With a roster of what’s probably going to be 65-70ish characters when it’s all said and done, than less than 10% of the roster.

 

[Schnee117]

Making Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr Mario costumes defeats the entire point of them being separated in the first place. They're either their own entity or not on the roster at all.

When you account for both versions. Otherwise that's Awakening's claim to fame.

No because that's not how Fates worked at all.
Fates was spliced up for the sake of making more money but they're all the same game it's not like Pokemon where you see people buying both versions at full price.
If you bought Birthright/Conquest you could download the other for a cheaper price as DLC and then the third path later.

They also had the audacity to put out a special edition with everything on the cartridge by default.

Fates is the best selling FE game by far, no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Nope, I don’t give a ****. That’s a bogus rule.

Well . . . it doesn't really matter whether or not you give a ****. Sakurai is the one making the decisions, and he's probably going to stick with the same logic he used last time (thank goodness).

 

[Deleted member]

Only reason I dislike Corrin is because he/she is a ****ty protagonist but it has nothing to do with gameplay so idc

 

[Ryu_Ken]

You might want to look at the final 5 seconds to a Smash for 3DS/Wii U trailer

Sora Ltd. And Bandai Namco were the only companies confirmed to work on Sm4sh.

 

[Ura]

No because that's not how Fates worked at all.
Fates was spliced up for the sake of making more money but they're all the same game it's not like Pokemon where you see people buying both versions at full price.
If you bought Birthright/Conquest you could download the other for a cheaper price as DLC and then the third path later.

They also had the audacity to put out a special edition with everything on the cartridge by default.

Fates is the best selling FE game by far, no matter how you try to spin it.

Yes but Awakening never had that same privilege. If it did it could have very well secured it's spot as the top dog in the franchise. I'm not an Awakening fanboy or anything, i'm just saying.

I'm also not debating the merits of whether or not IS was right to split the three games. Just saying it for what it is.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've never played any Fire Emblem game for so much as one second or less.

Consequently, I currently couldn't really care less about newcomers from that franchise. :V

I want Marth, Ike and Robin to stay for sure. The rest don't mean much to me at all, though I wouldn't complain if they all came back, either.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t see why she can’t get reverted to a costume.

You have to realize that It's not about taking up a roster slot, it's about development time. The only extra development time that would be spent on making a Lucina costume a playable character is changing the damage values on Marth's attacks to be uniform... that's nothing. Incidentally, that's why she was upgraded from a costume to a playable character in the first place. She's super popular among the FE community, from the best seller that revived the franchise, and the only backlash I see to her inclusion is the ludicrous idea that she'd somehow be stealing a character slot from a more unique fighter.

 

[Deathlightning21]

The ideal FE roster choices for me are pretty simple and make sense I think from both a fan pleasing aspect and getting the new stuff marketed.

1. Marth (Face of the franchise, he stays for sure)
2. Ike (White hot popularity and plays differently)
3. Robin (Represents the tactical part of fire emblem and the recent avatars)
4. An Older Fire Emblem character (Lyn/Hector/Ephraim/Celica/ect)
5. FE16 Protagonist

Lucina and Roy can be DLC if the're wanted enough, I suppose.

 

[Bowserlick]

I am leaning new game.

Majora's Mask was a new game quickly made after Ocarina of time. Resources were taken from the last game.

Sm4sh pretty much nailed mechanics and struck a balance between casual and competitive.

Characters with big changes such as Bowser, could just be brought back.
Other characters, like Ganondorf can receive a bit more attention.

Game modes can be streamlined and tweaked, according to feedback. Also, if custom moves were not as popular as hoped, individual custom moves can be scrapped and the whole idea moved onto reworked Mii's. This would potentially allow more newcomers without having to worry about special variants.

A new theme can be introduced such as Tag Team moves.

 

[N3ON]

Not quite exactly what I'm getting at.

Yes, being a Starter gives a Pokémon more exposure and promotion by default, and that exposure helps put its name out there in the community, but it being a Starter itself isn't the reason why it has the odds for Smash. Just what that Starter status lead to.

This is because a Pokémon doesn't have to be a Starter to get such promotion, such as Mimikyu and Bewear, who could be seen as mascots for the Generation overall with how much exposure and promotion they get.

I mean, you were saying the starter's chances stand devoid of starter status.

I was saying, more or less, the point above. Being a starter inherently predisposes the character to qualities which Smash values.

Frankly the fact that the character's chances, while aided, are not guaranteed, and that promotion and popularity aren't exclusive to starters (or even the Pokemon series) seemed implicit.

But I think now we're pretty much on the same page.

 

[Schnee117]

Sora Ltd. And Bandai Namco were the only companies confirmed to work on Sm4sh.

From the Smash 4 trailer that revealed Villager and Mega Man

From the Palutena trailer

From the Pac-Man trailer

 

[LancerStaff]

>is biased in an arguement
Lol

Yes, let’s just accuse me of being biased rather than actually defend your argument. Classy.

A bogus fan rule will always be a bogus fan rule. Never mind that it’s something that’s only happened once. One time does not a pattern make. Believe it or not Sakurai doesn’t have strict rules or patterns to add characters. He chooses as he damn well pleases.

Can I be honest about something?

I don’t understand all the hate for Corrin.

She’s unique, popular, and brings something other than the generic sword user to Fire Emblem representation.

Corrin really isn’t unique. He has a moveset that exists. It’s like the old Little Mac “A punch B punch Side B punch” meme movesets.

Corrin is an incredibly divisive character in FE, almost certainly because of his inclusion in Smash. For every person that likes them I’ve seen FE fans say they hate them.

Really you get everything about FE with just Marth, Ike, and Robin. Significantly less divisive but still popular characters. Debatably they have more interesting movesets as well.

A new character is virtually guaranteed. (As much as I hate saying those words in regards to any character.) Spring Man is a character with perceived moveset overlap as well. Everything is kinda just stacked against Corrin.

Making Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr Mario costumes defeats the entire point of them being separated in the first place. They're either their own entity or not on the roster at all.

Not really. Clones never really end well in fighting games, especially ones so samey. I’ve seen numerous fans of all three characters want them to just be costumes so they don’t have to pick one over the other for fairly objective gameplay reasons.

Well . . . it doesn't really matter whether or not you give a ****. Sakurai is the one making the decisions, and he's probably going to stick with the same logic he used last time (thank goodness).

And how many times have these bogus fan rules been smashed to pieces?

I see no reason why anybody should think Sakurai would do the same thing twice. Especially when actual fans would appreciate something else.

I mean, look at Dark Pit. That is not a character. That’s a single move that’s better and two other moves that are ****ed.

You have to realize that It's not about taking up a roster slot, it's about development time. The only extra development time that would be spent on making a Lucina costume a playable character is changing the damage values on Marth's attacks to be uniform... that's nothing. Incidentally, that's why she was upgraded from a costume to a playable character in the first place. She's super popular among the FE community, from the best seller that revived the franchise, and the only backlash I see to her inclusion is the ludicrous idea that she'd somehow be stealing a character slot from a more unique fighter.

That’s the thing. You put zero effort in, you get zero out. The character does not work well. It’s not a concept that needs to be pushed further. The effort would be better spent on a different clone, one with some actual thought and effort behind it.

If you people really believe in these stupid “patterns” so much let’s just look at the previous clones. Rather than attempt to bring old ones back they overwhelmingly attempt new ones. You don’t think somebody like Lucas or Wolf could of been made with the effort that went into the new trio? Of course they could of. But Sakurai picked some new characters and a different and arguably less important one. Wether or not it’s just whimsy or a rule I’ll let you decide.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

I wouldn't say Corrin isn't unique.

Their Dragon Fang abilities is something exclusive solely to them (and Kana).

No other character in the entire Fire Emblem series can do what they do.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 138356

From the Smash 4 trailer that revealed Villager and Mega Man

View attachment 138357

From the Palutena trailer

View attachment 138358

From the Pac-Man trailer

Those are character copyrights, not who worked on the game. :V

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, let’s just accuse me of being biased rather than actually defend your argument. Classy.

I stop taking people who use bias in their arguements seriously. I couldn't bother.

A bogus fan rule will always be a bogus fan rule. Never mind that it’s something that’s only happened once. One time does not a pattern make. Believe it or not Sakurai doesn’t have strict rules or patterns to add characters. He chooses as he damn well pleases.

He did mention that he doesn't like cuts though, didn't he?
Sakurai at least tries to appeal to the fanbase. Turning clones into alts would be pretty damn counter productive.
Not to mention there's absolutely no reason to do that at all.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

I don't see why some people are doing that whole "This character will be cut" thing, again. Smash 4 has shown that Sakurai has a pattern of not cutting the characters everyone says will be cut. Remember when everyone was saying that Ike, Lucas, ROB, and (Oddly) Jigglypuff will be cut?

Sakurai seems to cut characters due to redundancy (In the case of Pichu and Young Link being replaced by Toon Link), or them not working, not having proper licenses or going with a certain mechanic. (For example, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, and Ice Climbers) I don't think we should look at these characters with a biased mindset and say they will be removed because WE don't like them, that causes too many Smash speculation fight-things. I think we can expect certain characters like Bayonetta, Cloud, Roy, etc. to stay.