Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
12,357
Location
Vortex Tokyo
NNID
Demi-fiend
Switch FC
King of Chaos
The thing about Bayonetta is that she's almost never just firing her guns - she's doing other things such as kicking and twirling that get off most of the hits.



Most fighters aren't designed around platforming, though. Most fighters are designed around a single, flat plane in an enclosed space. Smash is not. You aren't dealing with the same set of game design constraints, and you have to take that into consideration when designing a moveset. Saying "most fighters outside of Tekken have gun characters" ignores that.
Well sure, those fighters aren't designed around platforming, but the issues and solutions with animations and projectile and such carry over, as with most animation principles of fighting games.

Those solutions don't just disappear due to a genre shift, especially considering most of the solutions for gun inclusions have already been implemented in other Smash characters

-low damage (Star Fox, Bayonetta)
-muzzle flash hitbox only (Lucario)
-ammo system (Project M Snake, Robin)
-long telegraphed draws (All the Star Fox characters, Bayonetta, K Rool)
-big recoil (Falco, Wolf, Bayonetta, K Rool)
-unorthodox firing angles (Bayonetta)
-exaggerated gun sizes (Falco, Wolf, Bayonetta, K Rool)
-short bullet range (All the Star Fox characters and Bayonetta)
-slow bullet speed (Zero Suit Samus, K Rool)

Notice that none of these are reliant on typical fighter conventions like closed stages, health bars or special meters.
 
Last edited:

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
14,901
Location
The States
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
The thing about Bayonetta is that she's almost never just firing her guns - she's doing other things such as kicking and twirling that get off most of the hits.



Most fighters aren't designed around platforming, though. Most fighters are designed around a single, flat plane in an enclosed space. Smash is not. You aren't dealing with the same set of game design constraints, and you have to take that into consideration when designing a moveset. Saying "most fighters outside of Tekken have gun characters" ignores that.
If you're worried if the guns aren't going to be useful, ricocheting them off the ground or using different guns in different situations could work. Not to mention, they could let the bullet be aimed in a certain amount of directions like Metal Blades.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
46,690
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
The thing about Bayonetta is that she's almost never just firing her guns - she's doing other things such as kicking and twirling that get off most of the hits.



Most fighters aren't designed around platforming, though. Most fighters are designed around a single, flat plane in an enclosed space. Smash is not. You aren't dealing with the same set of game design constraints, and you have to take that into consideration when designing a moveset. Saying "most fighters outside of Tekken have gun characters" ignores that.
I'm talking about her bullet arts though, which are when you hold down A. They give the attack more range and do chip damage but no hitstun, which is also accurate to how it was handled in her games

It's still very do-able depending on the type of gun and attack being used
 

fleshdude.gov

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
252
I'm not sure of how having platform elements that doesn't play like a traditional fighter, have anything against a gun user, not angry, just wondering.
So going to back to the Deadpool gif that was posted a bit earlier.
1547251631184.png


While this might be more useful in this game, in a Smash environment, Smash is not taking place on a uniform plane - there's a lot more focus on movement, especially in the air. This could be punished a lot easier in Smash than it could here.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
6,951
Location
Buffalo, New York
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
I think characters having 1:1 absolutely 100% accurate movesets are overrated in specific circumstances.

Snake works fine and has a cohesive moveset as a “heavy weapons specialist”. If you replace any one of his specials with a Tranq gun, it would take away a key piece of his moveset that makes him a terror in the stage control department.

Leave him be imo.
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
14,901
Location
The States
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
Smash 4 pretty much had the same thing though.
The cartoony effects got cranked to 11 though. Certain moves like Hadouken, Charge Shot and Pikachu's Thunder almost look like special moves from DBFZ, even if the character models are pretty similar in artstyle to Smash 4.
 

Good Guy Giygas

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
2,291
Location
Borderlands 3 Hype
Switch FC
SW-6635-8915-7294
The cartoony effects got cranked to 11 though. Certain moves like Hadouken, Charge Shot and Pikachu's Thunder almost look like special moves from DBFZ, even if the character models are pretty similar in artstyle to Smash 4.
Yea, in general, all of the fire/explosion effects look very cartoony and somewhat cell-shaded. I personally don't mind it, though sometimes it kinda clashes with other elements.
 

LetterO

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
1,739
Been trying to get to Elite Smash for the past day. Very good times but also very bad times.

The Belmonts are just more Links and that is not a good thing.
 

TMNTSSB4

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
14,609
Location
John Cena
3DS FC
3368-4469-9312
NNID
No More
What do you mean? Cause if you're implying Capcom isn't pulling out the big guns for DMCV you couldn't be more wrong. Well, unless they got Shootie and Baker back I guess
Not implying anything....moreso hoping they’ve got more in the tank this year instead of a few big shots
I would flat out stop playing smash if it got too violent im a Ace now by the way i expect Hundreds of likes for this Special occasion lol jk
same
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
14,901
Location
The States
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
I just spent five hours on this I need to know if it's good or if I wasted my time.

Looks fine for an exaggerated style that you usually do. Not sure if I would go for the dot shading, but that's just a personal thing. Especially on the flame belt. The fire should be a light source in and of itself.
 

Noipoi

Howdy!
Premium
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
15,814
Location
The Galar Region
Switch FC
SW: 7210-0785-3330
Looks fine for an exaggerated style that you usually do. Not sure if I would go for the dot shading, but that's just a personal thing. Especially on the flame belt. The fire should be a light source in and of itself.
yeah, you're right about the dots. It was an experiment really, now that I know what it looks like I probably won't do it again.
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
14,901
Location
The States
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
yeah, you're right about the dots. It was an experiment really, now that I know what it looks like I probably won't do it again.
I wouldn't say give up on it. Just use it in other ways. Maybe make them smaller, but closer together. But that might just be me comparing them too much to old comic art with how things were colored in.

EDIT: Didn't mean to double post, I got my alerts mixed up with another thread and thought someone posted again so soon.
 
Last edited:

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
GRimer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
33,238
Location
Um....Lost?
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
NNID
Swampasaur
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
WTF

I work so hard to get Ridley up to 3 million GSP.

And I get Pokemon Trainer almost there...

IN TWO MATCHES?!?!

GSP, what are you?
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
14,901
Location
The States
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
WTF

I work so hard to get Ridley up to 3 million GSP.

And I get Pokemon Trainer almost there...

IN TWO MATCHES?!?!

GSP, what are you?
Doesn't it have to do with how many people use a character, and how much better you are than the others? It's a really weird system for online.
 
Last edited:

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
12,357
Location
Vortex Tokyo
NNID
Demi-fiend
Switch FC
King of Chaos
Doesn't it have to do with how many people use a character, and how much better you are than the others? It's a really weird system for online.
Nah, your first matches with a character you don't play are extremely volatile.
GSP is easy come and easy go for a bit before it stabilizes to a normal number.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
9,324
Location
Mr Sakurai's Wild Ride
What would be some cool stages for Smash if they had stage dlc. The stages don’t have to be for series in the game or other ones owned by Nintendo.
First rules of business? Bringing back Pac-Maze and Rainbow Road.
I'm still baffled that cut these two stages, despite being most certainly iconic places in their respective game series

A Warioware-like Rhythm Heaven stage, and a Mario Maker-esque Minecraft stage could both work wonderfully, too

Oh, yeah... And if they add another Sonic stage, City Escape is the only correct option, no exceptions
 
Last edited:

Wademan94

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
7,041
Location
Where the weather changes as much as my avatar
3DS FC
4897-6423-0493
NNID
Wade94
What would be some cool stages for Smash if they had stage dlc. The stages don’t have to be for series in the game or other ones owned by Nintendo.
Homecoming Hijinks, seriously why don’t we have more Tropical Freeze representation aside from two Jungle Hijinks remixes?
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
6,087
Location
P5R Hype Train
3DS FC
2535-4093-3864
NNID
Mr.Wario
Switch FC
SW-0406-2873-7215
Pikachu's CPU has no chill. Little thing knows how to dash dance and has god-tier input reads, and that's just at 7. I'd be horrified to see what it's like on 9, lol.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
2,188
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Switch FC
2036-9032-5151
What would be some cool stages for Smash if they had stage dlc. The stages don’t have to be for series in the game or other ones owned by Nintendo.
I made a lot of good stages for the contest. I'd dig them up and link then, but it's a bit hard to navigate that huge thread. Some of my personal highlights were...

Press Garden Zone (Sonic Mania)
Nintendo Badge Arcade
All Cup Tour (Mario Kart Double Dash)
Sectonia's Throne Room (Kirby Triple Deluxe)
Dream Palace (Kirby Star Allies)
Salmon Run (Splatoon 2)
WarioNessRool Floats
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top