Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[staindgrey]

Half Life 3 is just straight up never happening, and it has less to do with it having been so long and more to do with the state of Valve.

Yep. It's a combination of both those factors, along with the prevalence of the PC modding community.

- Nothing Valve could create at this point would come close to matching the expectations that have built up for HL3.
- Valve doesn't even have developers that specialize in single player experiences on staff anymore.
- Valve will happily sell fan mods on their storefront without investing a single penny in development. It's free money.

Valve has absolutely zero reason to even try to make HL2:Ep3 or HL3 at this point. It'll just never exist unless Steam is finally overthrown, DOTA 2 goes out of style, TF2 cosmetics and general "trading cards" stop being traded for real money and their money fountain runs dry.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Geez did my previous post come off unimportant or something, I tried to help about the subject of the tier list and no one seems to notice... did I say something wrong?

 

[Gentlepanda]

Pikachu being THAT low? Jeez why.

Like I totally get why marth is that low. Kind of short range compared to the rest of the cast, and his tipper is super unreliable, but Pika?? Why?

Pink is 'undecided'. Hence Piranha Plant.

 

[Idon]

No he doesn’t. Marth has spent 3-4 (if you wanna count the 3DS version of Smash 4) games as the best FE character and one of the best characters overall, having others surpass him for once isn’t gonna do any harm to his reputation like it did to Bayo or Diddy

Er, no it's not about "**** you, you were high tier last games, you need to be low tier this one."

It's about "nothing comboes, nothing kills, nothing is safe, " and fishing for kills up into the 200%s. In a fish heavy game, there's zero reason to pick Marth over Lucina.

 

[staindgrey]

They put Marth in low tier and Lucina in top tier. Don't question.

No, Lucina's in mid-tier. Chrom's high-tier. Neither's top-tier.

Unless since I don't know Japanese it's actually structured "top-tier", "topper-tier" and "toppest-tier".

 

[PsySmasher]

Komoriki's tier list. No order within a tier:

Spoiler

View attachment 186316

Marth, the nerfs have finally got to him. Look at how they massacred my boy.

*Bowser Jr isn’t bottom tier*

This tier list is automatically incorrect.

 

[Opossum]

Pikachu being THAT low? Jeez why.

Like I totally get why marth is that low. Kind of short range compared to the rest of the cast, and his tipper is super unreliable, but Pika?? Why?

The bottom row is the "I don't know where to place them" tier.

 

[KMDP]

Pikachu being THAT low? Jeez why.

Like I totally get why marth is that low. Kind of short range compared to the rest of the cast, and his tipper is super unreliable, but Pika?? Why?

It's so strange seeing Pikachu that low.

You know, considering everyone else puts Pikachu in the top tier.

I'd say "maybe that's the 'untested' section", but...

 

[Gentlepanda]

It's so strange seeing Pikachu that low.

You know, considering everyone else puts Pikachu in the top tier.

I'd say "maybe that's the 'untested' section", but I recognise the Kanji for Bottom (下部), so...

unless Japan is beating even us at jumping to conclusions about unreleased characters, i don't think Piranha Plant is in the same actual tier as Pikachu

 

[ClaTheBae]

The bottom row is the "I don't know where to place them" tier.

That makes hella sense.

Speaking of that, with Piranha Plant's stats, he seems to have a lot going for him. From his trailers, his frame date is pretty good too. Maybe Plant will actually be good?

 

[Gentlepanda]

That makes hella sense.

Speaking of that, with Piranha Plant's stats, he seems to have a lot going for him. From his trailers, his frame date is pretty good too. Maybe Plant will actually be good?

grand finals will be won with a ****ing potted plant

 

[Deleted member]

She also giggles when you poke her tum-tum :3

What

You can't generalize the fanbase of a whole company.

Unless you say ATLUS fans are masochistic, then it's true.

Why else would anyone that's not a masochist play an Atlus game?

But, what happened to her ability to summon infinite quantities of healing fruit that she had in Smash 4?
Is she only able to heal others, not herself? If anything ever happens that would injure her, is there nothing that can be done?

Why would she need to heal herself when she can't even be damaged?
Regardless, those fruits were to make sure her victims would be in their best condition when she decided to get into the fight.

 

[NabiscoFelt]

Huh.

Not sure if this is old news, but apparently a Czech retailer accidentally outed the release date of Metroid Prime 4 for Nov. 29th. That is a Friday, and placeholder dates are usually Dec. 31st when they know it's coming in winter but not much past that.

Could just be the Czech favorite placeholder. Because that's Pokemon month usually

 

[Deleted member]

Komoriki's tier list. No order within a tier:

Spoiler

View attachment 186316

Marth, the nerfs have finally got to him. Look at how they massacred my boy.

Komoriki's tier list. No order within a tier:

Spoiler

View attachment 186316

Marth, the nerfs have finally got to him. Look at how they massacred my boy.

While I'm glad to see him so high, I don't actually think Shulk is top tier. IMO he's upper high tier due to how goddamn hard he is to use and, due to the reduction in time for jump and shield, his disadvantage isn't too good. He's godlike in other aspects though. Also Plant didn't even come out yet wtf

lucinas better anyways

 

[staindgrey]

So with this tier list putting Daisy/Peach at #1, and articles being made about how good Daisy/Peach are, I'm regretting not having the patience to get good with Daisy.

Hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh. ****, I need to go back into training mode.

 

[Idon]

While I'm glad to see him so high, I don't actually think Shulk is top tier. IMO he's upper high tier due to how goddamn hard he is to use and, due to the reduction in time for jump and shield, his disadvantage isn't too good. He's godlike in other aspects though. Also Plant didn't even come out yet wtf

lucinas better anyways

Last tier is "unsure" tier, not trash bottom.

Also yeah, Japanese pros tend to overrate characters with "potential" and high skill and execution barriers, Shulk being the most obvious one.

 

[PsySmasher]

That makes hella sense.

Speaking of that, with Piranha Plant's stats, he seems to have a lot going for him. From his trailers, his frame date is pretty good too. Maybe Plant will actually be good?

He’s got decent stats for speed and landing lag, especially for a heavyweight.

I’m definitely gonna consider picking him up if his specials are good too.

 

[KMDP]

unless Japan is beating even us at jumping to conclusions about unreleased characters, i don't think Piranha Plant is in the same actual tier as Pikachu

I double checked, it's actually the Kanji for "unknown" (不明) not "bottom" (下部).

Though, to be honest, if Pichu is high tier, then Pikachu shouldn't be that far away.

 

[SlickWylde]

I've said it before, but this is my most wanted:

3rd Party:
Monkey D Luffy
Saitama
Yuga
Playmaker

1st Party
Monk Maz Koshia
Galeem/Dharkeon/Master+Crazy Hand

Get out of here, weeb! *Throws a waifu pillow out the door* (Kidding, of course)

 

[Pakky]

Komoriki's tier list. No order within a tier:

Spoiler

View attachment 186316

Marth, the nerfs have finally got to him. Look at how they massacred my boy.

NOOOOOOOOOOO MAH BOOY

Is true cuz I killed this man

Word?

 

[ZephyrZ]

So one guy says Marth isn't high tier even though it goes against the general consensus of the rest of the competitive Smash community and we're all freaking out over it why exactly?

 

[Deleted member]

Last tier is "unsure" tier, not trash bottom.

Also yeah, Japanese pros tend to overrate characters with "potential" and high skill and execution barriers, Shulk being the most obvious one.

How is this guy unsure that plant won't be top tier I bet he doesn't even play Smash

So one guy says Marth isn't high tier even though it goes against the general consensus of the rest of the competitive Smash community and we're all freaking out over it why exactly?

We're not freaking out just discussing it

Pichu

**** I forgot about him how could I do this

 

[Pakky]

So one guy says Marth isn't high tier even though it goes against the general consensus of the rest of the competitive Smash community and we're all freaking out over it why exactly?

True how can you rate a character with no data?

Also the game is still pretty young.

Give it till EVO

 

[KMDP]

So one guy says Marth isn't high tier even though it goes against the general consensus of the rest of the competitive Smash community and we're all freaking out over it why exactly?

Because sometimes the general consensus is wrong.

Of course, you're right that it's silly to panic about it.

 

[RyuhoFox]

So this isn't the DLC speculation thread anymore? Im confused.

 

[Opossum]

So one guy says Marth isn't high tier even though it goes against the general consensus of the rest of the competitive Smash community and we're all freaking out over it why exactly?

It's not just that tier list though. A lot of folks are kinda coming to a consensus that he was nerfed HARD in Ultimate.

Even then it's not really a freak out.

 

[Deleted member]

Last tier is "unsure" tier, not trash bottom.

Also yeah, Japanese pros tend to overrate characters with "potential" and high skill and execution barriers, Shulk being the most obvious one.

Many western players are calling Shulk high tier though. I mean, yeah, not TOP tier like that Japanese tier list but his barrier isn't even that big considering the Monado Wheel is just so useful and easy to use.

 

[KMDP]

Many western players are calling Shulk high tier though. I mean, yeah, not TOP tier like that Japanese tier list but his barrier isn't even that big considering the Monado Wheel is just so useful and easy to use.

So...

"Shulk has potential"?

 

[Wademan94]

Many western players are calling Shulk high tier though. I mean, yeah, not TOP tier like that Japanese tier list but his barrier isn't even that big considering the Monado Wheel is just so useful and easy to use.

“This is the Monado’s power!”

 

[PsySmasher]

So this isn't the DLC speculation thread anymore? Im confused.

Was it ever really the DLC speculation thread?

 

[Deleted member]

So one guy says Marth isn't high tier even though it goes against the general consensus of the rest of the competitive Smash community and we're all freaking out over it why exactly?

Because as old as this image is, it still stays true to this very day:

 

[Deleted member]

He’s got decent stats for speed and landing lag, especially for a heavyweight.

I’m definitely gonna consider picking him up if his specials are good too.

Of course a ****ing plant is heavier then Ridley

 

[KMDP]

Of course a ****ing plant is heavier then Ridley

It's all that soil, and the ceramics of the plant pot the soil is in.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Of course a ****ing plant is heavier then Ridley

The pot probably makes up for most of the weight.

Dammit! 'd

 

[Gentlepanda]

Of course a ****ing plant is heavier then Ridley

terracotta is heavy yo

Because as old as this image is, it still stays true to this very day:

View attachment 186345

ever relevant

 

[Grie]

Of course a ****ing plant is heavier then Ridley

Wait, plant is that heavy! Why?!

 

[?????????????]

You still have to go through hurdles to get to that conclusion though.
I mean, it can be done for Dante in two different ways.
1) Dante is own by Capcom, Capcom has supported Nintendo. Also created by Kamiya, who created Bayonetta and Wonderful 101, he's supported Nintendo.
2) DMC was originally Resident Evil 4, RE has appeared on many Nintendo systems.

Still though, Nintendo and Sakurai don't care about any of this. Sakurai only wants fun characters that mean something to video game history. Nintendo wants more money and to bring non-Nintendo/Smash fans to Smash.

Also, Persona has only tangential links to Shin Megami Tensei, they aren't really considered spin-off games in Japan, even if they did spin-off of a spin-off, Shin Megami Tensei if..they only called them Shin Megami Tensei: Persona in the West. It's still a series that hasn't had much history on Nintendo consoles.

I think my position is at least understandable, so I’m not sure why you’re so determined to prove me wrong.

I’m wrong. You win. Are we done?

 

[staindgrey]

It's not just that tier list though. A lot of folks are kinda coming to a consensus that he was nerfed HARD in Ultimate.

Even then it's not really a freak out.

Even the general consensus on this very forum has been that Marth is likely the worst of the Marth clones. This isn't exactly new news.

I'm more interested in what led that tier list's creator to put Young Link so low and Shulk so high. And how the hell Zelda is still right there near the very bottom as always not really I knew that would eventually happen.

 

[PsySmasher]

Of course a ****ing plant is heavier then Ridley

So is a kid in a car/helicopter hybrid

We should be used to this by now

 

[ZephyrZ]

Because sometimes the general consensus is wrong.

You're absolutely right, sometimes the general consensus is wrong. Sometimes popular characters are just overrated. Maybe Komokiri is right and Marth is kind of underwhelming in this game.

However I don't see a reason to take his word over all of the other high level players saying Marth is good, so while I will consider his opinion I'm not going to jump the gun and say Marth is bad just yet. I especially find it silly to put a full tier of difference between him and Lucina. Shouldn't we have learned from when people did the reverse of that in Smash 4?

It's not just that tier list though. A lot of folks are kinda coming to a consensus that he was nerfed HARD in Ultimate.

Even then it's not really a freak out.

Who else has though?

I've been mostly hearing that he's still very strong is this game. Sure Lucina might be slightly better because tippers can be tricky to get in this game, but his sword is still an invaluable defensive tool in a game where characters have a harder time playing defensively, and his edge guarding is still excellent.

Aren't his nerfs just a slightly less functional dancing blade and a loss of kill confirms from jab? Or am I missing something here? Looking at the wiki I'm not seeing a lot of huge changes.

Even the general consensus on this very forum has been that Marth is likely the worst of the Marth clones. This isn't exactly new news.

Yeah, the worst in a game where they're all very good.

Although I've also seen a lot of people argue that the worst might be Roy again.