Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pacack]

Thing is, as alluded to when Sakurai discussed James Bond, a non-video game third-party character would be an absolute licensing nightmare (which is the real reason why I don't expect to see them at any point).

While I completely get the point you're making, please note that Bond was particularly nightmareish, because he would have been based off of the likeness of a real actor.

While those do make Hanafuda more relevant, Labo and Pikmin 2 are the only actual appearances of Daitoryo.

Correct. The art of the cards is referenced more than the box the cards are contained in, for sure.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thing is, as alluded to when Sakurai discussed James Bond, a non-video game third-party character would be an absolute licensing nightmare (which is the real reason why I don't expect to see them at any point).

Yes, but that was ages ago. We know he changes his mind on things. We don't know his current view whatsoever or how it applies to 3rd(as of now) or 1st(2nd) parties at all.

He has never made it clear how it even applies to Nintendo-owned characters. The fact the Ballot only wanted us to vote for Video Game characters actually implies he isn't looking for characters who weren't made for video games first at this point.

The closest other thing we have is a later interview/article showing that Sakurai didn't want someone like Goku as is because he didn't originate in a game. Which is a big reason why the Mii Fighters exist, to let people play as those who are virtually impossible due to not being a "game character". https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/07/mii-fighters/ This speaks of it. So while he's made it pretty clear that 3rd parties should be game characters now, he has yet to be clear on 1st(2nd) parties.

 

[Lattenzo]

Meta Knight:
New Final Smash: Brawl Meta Knight

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Yes, but that was ages ago. We know he changes his mind on things. We don't know his current view whatsoever or how it applies to 3rd(as of now) or 1st(2nd) parties at all.

He has never made it clear how it even applies to Nintendo-owned characters. The fact the Ballot only wanted us to vote for Video Game characters actually implies he isn't looking for characters who weren't made for video games first at this point.

The closest other thing we have is a later interview/article showing that Sakurai didn't want someone like Goku as is because he didn't originate in a game. Which is a big reason why the Mii Fighters exist, to let people play as those who are virtually impossible due to not being a "game character". https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/07/mii-fighters/ This speaks of it. So while he's made it pretty clear that 3rd parties should be game characters now, he has yet to be clear on 1st(2nd) parties.

Goku vs Vegeta

YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Goku vs Vegeta

YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS!

The fact we don't have Saiyan Hair as a Mii Hat is a travesty in itself.

 

[PeridotGX]

What are some retro stages that you think will return? I think that Mario Circuit (Wii U), Onett (Melee), Halberd (Brawl), Spear Pillar (Brawl), and Mute City (3DS) are rather safe bets.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

One comment on the Sora topic real quick; I see the appeal, and the demand is there, and I think hed be cool and all, but Disney exists. And my opinion of Disney hasnt been too good as of recent... They butchered MVCI for me, Id hate to see howd they try and turn this game into ©DISNEY™ guest starring Super Smash Bros.

 

[Pazzo.]

Disney would want too much of the cake for Nintendo to allow Sora.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

One comment on the Sora topic real quick; I see the appeal, and the demand is there, and I think hed be cool and all, but Disney exists. And my opinion of Disney hasnt been too good as of recent... They butchered MVCI for me, Id hate to see howd they try and turn this game into ©DISNEY™ guest starring Super Smash Bros.

Capcom mishandled MvCI and is the main reason it turned out the way it is. Disney is only responsible for no X-Men and Dr. Doom.

 

[Pazzo.]

Right, let's not shift blame away from Capcom with this.

Cheap game, cheap results.

 

[Roberk]

The fact we don't have Saiyan Hair as a Mii Hat is a travesty in itself.

Pray for TMS #FE representation so that we can get Super Saiyan Blue Marth.

Spoiler: Weeb game

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Pray for TMS #FE representation so that we can get Super Saiyan Blue Marth.

Spoiler: Weeb game

That game's version of the Fire Emblem theme is just so ridleyculous that I can't help but chuckle at it.

 

[Pazzo.]

Weeb Emblem: Persona Art Online

 

[Edgelord_197]

One comment on the Sora topic real quick; I see the appeal, and the demand is there, and I think hed be cool and all, but Disney exists. And my opinion of Disney hasnt been too good as of recent... They butchered MVCI for me, Id hate to see howd they try and turn this game into ©DISNEY™ guest starring Super Smash Bros.

Isn’t Marvel Games(not Disney themselves) the reason why MVCI sucked?

 

[Pazzo.]

Thank Iwata that Sakurai's returning for Smash 5. Say what you will, but at least he won't ever leave Smash in a MvC situation.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Thank Iwata that Sakurai's returning for Smash 5. Say what you will, but at least he won't ever leave Smash in a MvC situation.

Sakurai: I've decided no one really knows Pokemon anyways and cut the Pokemon roster.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Pray for TMS #FE representation so that we can get Super Saiyan Blue Marth.

Spoiler: Weeb game

wow, Marth got his super form without needing all the Chaos Emeralds? thats OP

anyway i know Sans Undertale is something of a joke suggestion but what are the odds of an indie character actually getting in? 'cause i'd genuinely be cool with an Undertale rep, though my personal preference would go to Undyne

 

[Roberk]

That game's version of the Fire Emblem theme is just so ridleyculous that I can't help but chuckle at it.

I'd pay money if we had it as some sort of DLC, it'd be a good meme.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Sakurai: I've decided no one really knows Pokemon anyways and cut the Pokemon roster.

"Gamefreak doesn't want us using Pokemon anymore, they felt our alt colors we used for their characters compromised the integrity of their brand. We could renegotiate, probably fairly easily, but as sole creative arbiter for Smash, I like having good alt colors.
"And besides, people say they like a given set of characters, but what they actually like are the functions those characters represent, so we'll just be adding characters that fill the same role and everyone should be satisfied that team battle remains playable."

 

[Gumzilla]

We're getting close to 1,000 pages

 

[Deleted member]

Page count getting bigger, alright. Sora? Wouldn't mind him but there are other characters I want more. But wouldn't mind seeing him.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Is there a chance that Persona 5 JOKER would be included in Smash bros for Switch?
I'm talking about this guy:

Seriously, Persona 5 is more popular.
Even an anime of this is made.

I missed this by a little while but I'm giving my two-cents anyways bc Joker.

Persona 5 is working its way to be my favorite game since Smash for Wii U, and probably favorite single-player game of all time. I think Joker is an incredibly well designed character aesthetically, and provides numerous cool functions. We can assume that Nintendo and Atlus have a good/decent relationship due to the SMT franchise frequently visiting Nintendo consoles, and we were even given Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, which is a strong indicator of a healthy relationship there. We also know that the next SMT title is already confirmed for the Switch. Because of those things, I could definitely see Nintendo working with Atlus to make this happen.

One major concern I do have, though, is that Atlus's PR manager went well out of his way to say Persona 5 is never coming to the Switch (sad face). That causes concern for Joker specifically to come to Smash, though Cloud is here, so anything is possible there I suppose. I think what this really comes down to is:

A) Nintendo wants to work with Atlus to put a SMT/Persona character in Smash, and
B) Atlus wants Joker to be the character they use

As someone pointed out earlier, Joker will most definitely be appearing in Persona Q 2, so he will have an appearance on a Nintendo console. But what we do have to be concerned about is if Atlus actually wants Joker to be the front of their future advertisement. Due to the absolute work of art Persona 5 is, I hope they continue to milk it further, and push for Joker to make an appearance in Smash Switch. I am going to do myself the favor of not keeping any hopes up, though.

 

[MrReyes96]

I missed this by a little while but I'm giving my two-cents anyways bc Joker.

Persona 5 is working its way to be my favorite game since Smash for Wii U, and probably favorite single-player game of all time. I think Joker is an incredibly well designed character aesthetically, and provides numerous cool functions. We can assume that Nintendo and Atlus have a good/decent relationship due to the SMT franchise frequently visiting Nintendo consoles, and we were even given Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, which is a strong indicator of a healthy relationship there. We also know that the next SMT title is already confirmed for the Switch. Because of those things, I could definitely see Nintendo working with Atlus to make this happen.

One major concern I do have, though, is that Atlus's PR manager went well out of his way to say Persona 5 is never coming to the Switch (sad face). That causes concern for Joker specifically to come to Smash, though Cloud is here, so anything is possible there I suppose. I think what this really comes down to is:

A) Nintendo wants to work with Atlus to put a SMT/Persona character in Smash, and
B) Atlus wants Joker to be the character they use

As someone pointed out earlier, Joker will most definitely be appearing in Persona Q 2, so he will have an appearance on a Nintendo console. But what we do have to be concerned about is if Atlus actually wants Joker to be the front of their future advertisement. Due to the absolute work of art Persona 5 is, I hope they continue to milk it further, and push for Joker to make an appearance in Smash Switch. I am going to do myself the favor of not keeping any hopes up, though.

I think if Yu from persona 4 is anything to go by, Joker will be the face of the persona series for the next decade

 

[Radical Bones]

It's so quiet around here. The hype machine is slowing. Come on Sakurai, we need your PotD equivalent ASAP.

 

[Sage of Ice]

It's so quiet around here. The hype machine is slowing. Come on Sakurai, we need your PotD equivalent ASAP.

fingers crossed for a direct or something in the next few days, what with the investor's meeting and such

 

[MrReyes96]

It's so quiet around here. The hype machine is slowing. Come on Sakurai, we need your PotD equivalent ASAP.

Gee, it sure is boring around here

Let’s hope we get some news this week at least

 

[PF9]

There should be a Tourian Stage with a Metroid Original Medley (similar to the Kid Icarus Original Medley)

 

[Gumzilla]

It's so quiet around here. The hype machine is slowing. Come on Sakurai, we need your PotD equivalent ASAP.

Yeah by the time the game comes out it'll probably have some mediocre sales.

 

[Danpal65]

Yeah by the time the game comes out it'll probably have some mediocre sales.

Just cause we have not had any news for a while does not mean that the sales of this game are going to be bad. Heck, the casual audience probably does not care that there has not been any new information since it is expected that the game will be a Spring/Summer (Autumn/Winter in Northern Hemisphere) release.

This game is freakin' Smash it would sell gangbusters even if Inklings were the only new addition. This is hyperbole we will certainly get more than the Inklings.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just cause we have not had any news for a while does not mean that the sales of this game are going to be bad. Heck, the casual audience probably does not care that there has not been any new information since it is expected that the game will be a Spring/Summer (Autumn/Winter in Northern Hemisphere) release.

This game is freakin' Smash it would sell gangbusters even if Inklings were the only new addition. This is hyperbole we will certainly get more than the Inklings.

I wouldn't be certain of it. But I do agree with the concept of it.

Until we find out a bit more, I'd just wait and see. The thing is, we don't even know if it's just a glorified port with just a new character. It's certain we'll have more content, but what kind is unknown.

It's also what's annoying me about the fact they gave us nothing more than a teaser. Just too little information. Even saying it's a port or a new game would've been enough to help people speculate/think of stuff. If it was a new game(even if it's more like Splatoon 2 new, that is, only technically new and more just a super version of a port), we'd be thinking of more newcomers by default than normal instead of a smaller list with a few extra vets(due to Wii U/3DS not having all the vets people wanted back), as well as new mechanics.

 

[Gumzilla]

Maybe Nintendo should go the Scott Cawthon route and make a website solely for teasers.

 

[Danpal65]

I wouldn't be certain of it. But I do agree with the concept of it.

Until we find out a bit more, I'd just wait and see. The thing is, we don't even know if it's just a glorified port with just a new character. It's certain we'll have more content, but what kind is unknown.

It's also what's annoying me about the fact they gave us nothing more than a teaser. Just too little information. Even saying it's a port or a new game would've been enough to help people speculate/think of stuff. If it was a new game(even if it's more like Splatoon 2 new, that is, only technically new and more just a super version of a port), we'd be thinking of more newcomers by default than normal instead of a smaller list with a few extra vets(due to Wii U/3DS not having all the vets people wanted back), as well as new mechanics.

I think this is certainly an issue more so for us because we are here to discuss and speculate Smash and it is kinda hard to do that when we have talked to death pretty much everything that seems reasonable (and somewhat unreasonable) to talk about at this stage. Like you said, if we had some clarification about the nature of this game we could be more steadfast and sure about certain topics (port/new game) and it would help guide speculation into new characters, mechanics, stages or whatever.

It has just got to the stage where it is a little frustrating

 

[RandomAce]

I wouldn't be certain of it. But I do agree with the concept of it.

Until we find out a bit more, I'd just wait and see. The thing is, we don't even know if it's just a glorified port with just a new character. It's certain we'll have more content, but what kind is unknown.

It's also what's annoying me about the fact they gave us nothing more than a teaser. Just too little information. Even saying it's a port or a new game would've been enough to help people speculate/think of stuff. If it was a new game(even if it's more like Splatoon 2 new, that is, only technically new and more just a super version of a port), we'd be thinking of more newcomers by default than normal instead of a smaller list with a few extra vets(due to Wii U/3DS not having all the vets people wanted back), as well as new mechanics.

Even it is was confirmed that this would be a new game, people would still be expecting less newcomers than usual since it would make the roster too big. Since this is a fighting game, the development team have to implement, improve, and balance all the characters for 1v1, 2v2, Free for All, Inclusion of Items, and so much more, that they might opt to choose to add less characters to help make the game more balanced.

 

[Gumzilla]

Honestly at this point I just want Pichu back and some characters I've been waiting for since I was younger.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even it is was confirmed that this would be a new game, people would still be expecting less newcomers than usual since it would make the roster too big. Since this is a fighting game, the development team have to implement, improve, and balance all the characters for 1v1, 2v2, Free for All, Inclusion of Items, and so much more, that they might opt to choose to add less characters to help make the game more balanced.

Not to the same degree. A new game definitely makes people think of more newcomers than a port. This mentality isn't odd either. People expect newcomers way more for a new game since it is assumed to full of a crapload of new content.

A port isn't expected as much to the same degree.

Obviously speculation isn't literally as I said, but this mentality isn't inaccurate so much as "not everybody follows it". Which makes sense, cause we ain't sheep. Well, I'm a giant metal t-rex, but that's beside the point.

 

[Gumzilla]

Ok a bit off topic but I think the obvious way to have the Inklings transform is to crouch. Obviously I'm probably not the oly one to think of that I just wanted to get that out there.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I think the one thing everyone agrees on well the majority anyways is that Ice Climbers are for sure going to be in it.

 

[Hinata]

I think the one thing everyone agrees on well the majority anyways is that Ice Climbers are for sure going to be in it.

I mean, I feel like that's a given. Sakurai almost had them fully ready, but the 3DS limitations stopped him in his tracks.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Well that's a very nice story, how much of it can you prove?


Wow, dormant and d-list series. Did you pay attention to the roster? Every newcomer bar one (and third-parties) was current, and successful. And therein Xenoblade had the upper hand over the only series from that list that maybe had a chance, Golden Sun. Had the original GS games hypothetically come out a decade later, you'd probably see that reflected on the roster. Or do you only connect the dots that fit your narrative?

Xenobloade had 1 game, that barely sold well before Shulk got in Smash. Nintendo didn't even give a crap about it to localize it, and ONLY after a large petition did they decide to cast a lower budget British cast to dub the game.

Rhythm Heaven at that point had 3 games, which sold over 4 millions copies around the time. With the newest game being released in July 2011

Golden Sun had 3 games with its latest game releasing in October 2010. The series had sold around 3.7 million copies at that time.

Chibi Robo had 4 games at the time. With its latest game releasing in July 2013. Around the time the series had sold around 0.77 million copies (not counting sales for PF since digital sales are hard to determine).

Dillon had 2 games around the time with the latest game coming out in April 2013. (No sales info for digitals)

Advance Wars had its latest game coming out January, 2008 (4 total). Around the time the series had sold 2.3 million. This isn't counting the Wars series as a whole either.

Custom Robo had 5 games selling at least 1.5 million copies, with its latest game coming out Feb 2008.

You know when Xenoblade first came out? June 2010. You know how many sales it had at the time? 0.79M

Notice anything about these "dormant" series? How about that 4/6 of them had more recent releases than Xenoblade. The other 2 were only two years older. 4 of the series had sold more than Xenoblade at the time, while the other 2 series didn't have accurate numbers. (Both likely outsold XB).

So next time you try to take a jab, get off your high horse and actually look up the series and the argument I'm making. Xenoblade was amazing and I really wanted Shulk in Smash 4, but that still does not mean it deserved the fast pass it got. If Smash 4's roster was decided sometime in 2012, that means each of these series had a recent game 4 years prior. Again 4 of those series were more current and already had multiple sequels. XB had 1 game. That favoritism.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, I feel like that's a given. Sakurai almost had them fully ready, but the 3DS limitations stopped him in his tracks.

While I agree for the most part, we don't know if they would've worked on the Wii U perfectly either. 8-Player Smash proved to require a lot of power, as they had to actually make the models have less joints to make things run smoothly.

So it might be more than just the 3DS at this point. I don't think it would do much, but it also depends upon how well 16 characters would do onscreen with the Switch. IMO, it'd work fine. But it's quite possible it might not. Of course, I could see them simply not being selectable for it, and perhaps that would be removed from Classic Mode when they're involved. I mean, Mii Fighters aren't available in every mode, so it's not that big of a deal. It's clear that "rosters must be the same" was the only important point, not "everybody is available in every mode under all conditions".