Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CaptainAmerica]

Is anyone speculating on DLC newcomers right now? If so, who are you predicting, and what predictions in particular do you consider risky.

Me? I'm absolute **** at predicting Sakurai.

Considering I'm not a huge fan of JRPGs and that I've got my own characters I'd want, I do have a list of four characters I can see making it...but that's mostly based on who would be the most anti-hype for me personally.

Still, I'm predicting:

• Erdrick, or some other Dragon Quest thing. Dragon Quest is the next biggest JRPG series after Final Fantasy, and it's huge in Japan, so it's not surprising that that name is one of the big ones nowadays.
• Lloyd Irving. Namco still only having Pac-Man while codeveloping the game is bizarre, and now Heihachi's VA died and he's been added to Pac's taunt (along with Katamari's prince). Lloyd, however, got a Mii costume before, and now didn't even get a Spirit? It's looking good for him.
• Steve. Minecraft is a phenomenon, and I can definitely see the first Western third-party in Smash going to a game series that Sakurai said he liked, and is one of the biggest games of the decade.
• Doomguy. Bethesda talked to Nintendo about Smash, and Doom was a really well received port and Doom Eternal's coming up soon. This one is a bit questionable since Japan's really not big on FPSs, but Doom is basically the granddaddy of the genre, which is not yet represented in Smash.

Now as to who I'd want? Dovahkiin and Tails, but I don't really think either has a good chance, sadly.

 

[Pyra]

Is anyone speculating on DLC newcomers right now? If so, who are you predicting, and what predictions in particular do you consider risky.

Either wright or layton, and Prince of all Cosmos.
Not sure about the rest.

It'll happen and then I'll be the only one to say this, and then I'll have license to laugh at everyone who goes "that was obvious"

 

[staindgrey]

Enough about Zeldas let's talk about Links:
View attachment 185249
Gotta say I really appreciate how TP Link looks a bit more wild and feral than the rest of the links.

I love the art, but.

Wasn't the original Link a brunette?

 

[Will]

Dang this arena is still mega empty

 

[Deleted member]

Me? I'm absolute **** at predicting Sakurai.

Considering I'm not a huge fan of JRPGs and that I've got my own characters I'd want, I do have a list of four characters I can see making it...but that's mostly based on who would be the most anti-hype for me personally.

Still, I'm predicting:

• Erdrick, or some other Dragon Quest thing. Dragon Quest is the next biggest JRPG series after Final Fantasy, and it's huge in Japan, so it's not surprising that that name is one of the big ones nowadays.
• Lloyd Irving. Namco still only having Pac-Man while codeveloping the game is bizarre, and now Heihachi's VA died and he's been added to Pac's taunt (along with Katamari's prince). Lloyd, however, got a Mii costume before, and now didn't even get a Spirit? It's looking good for him.
• Steve. Minecraft is a phenomenon, and I can definitely see the first Western third-party in Smash going to a game series that Sakurai said he liked, and is one of the biggest games of the decade.
• Doomguy. Bethesda talked to Nintendo about Smash, and Doom was a really well received port and Doom Eternal's coming up soon. This one is a bit questionable since Japan's really not big on FPSs, but Doom is basically the granddaddy of the genre, which is not yet represented in Smash.

Now as to who I'd want? Dovahkiin and Tails, but I don't really think either has a good chance, sadly.

>Predictions
-Erdrick
-Steve
-Namco rep or 1st/2nd Party rep (Lloyd/Heihachi or Sylux/Three Houses character)
-Another Western rep (Crash Bandicoot or a Bethesda character)

>Dream picks
-Hero/Eight from Dragon Quest 8
-Crash Bandicoot
-Spyro
-Steve/Dixie Kong

 

[staindgrey]

So imagine something similar to Triforce Heroes

You lost me.

I wanted to like the game, and it was okay, but "okay" doesn't cut it for a Zelda game. It was kind of fun arguing with two other people in the early stages though.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Dang this arena is still mega empty

Sorry, too busy playing Guild Wars 2 like the MMO nerd I am.

 

[Deleted member]

Dang this arena is still mega empty

I don’t pay the online, so i can’t join.

 

[Wademan94]

You lost me.

I wanted to like the game, and it was okay, but "okay" doesn't cut it for a Zelda game. It was kind of fun arguing with two other people in the early stages though.

I meant something similar in concept, not exactly like TFH

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, i’m the only one who liked Hyrule Warriors?

Nope, love that game. Play as Impa all the time.

 

[Deleted member]

I meant something similar in concept, not exactly like TFH

You should have gone for an idea similar to Hyrule Warriors.

Triforce Heroes applied the online stuff to an extreme point.

Nope, love that game. Play as Impa all the time.

I like to play as Girahim, Ganondorf and Midna.

 

[staindgrey]

Is anyone speculating on DLC newcomers right now? If so, who are you predicting, and what predictions in particular do you consider risky.

To be honest, I gave up predicting Sakurai. I can't, so I won't. All the things we think we know that aren't based on actual official evidence (like the box) is just echo chamber stuff.

But who do I want that's feasible?

Announced on Valentines Day.

I will ****ing switch mains on the spot.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Enough about Zeldas let's talk about Links:
View attachment 185249
Gotta say I really appreciate how TP Link looks a bit more wild and feral than the rest of the links.

...That's it, we need TP Link as a costume too.

Ugh, that was such a good game. I loved the grittier tone.

It is subjective. So we can agree to disagree.

But her dsmash is literally just her kicking left then right. It's not like Paisy's that uses the dress itself as a dsmash. All that would need to change are her hurt boxes to not incorporate her dress and, as has been shown by labbing Ultimate Zelda, they already changed her hurtboxes anyway with this redesign.

No she doesn't need the dress for any of her animations. Besides, her hurtboxed shouldn't even include the skirt.

...I just like the dress. I never really was a huge fan of the pants. I've always liked it best when someone could fight and wear a dress. It basically goes back to that idea of her having to dress like a guy in order to be badass, or having to be Peach - why can't she be serious, feminine, and badass all at the same time? Zelda was always my link between Peach and Samus.

 

[AndreaAC]

Enough about Zeldas let's talk about Links:
View attachment 185249
Gotta say I really appreciate how TP Link looks a bit more wild and feral than the rest of the links.

TP Link is also the most adorable looking one too...(totally not biased) > 3 >

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda is way more like Peach than Samus however. Even as Sheik, she didn't take into action all too much.

Twilight Princess was a great game, yet tried to be way too much like Ocarina of Time. Which is understandable, at that given time, but it still kind of hurts the game. Still love most of TP's mechanics! Especially the hidden sword techniques, which I sorely missed in Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild. Moreso in BotW, because the combat animations are kind of boring, and Skyward Sword at least had a FEW of the techniques in tact.

 

[staindgrey]

No she doesn't need the dress for any of her animations. Besides, her hurtboxed shouldn't even include the skirt.

...I just like the dress. I never really was a huge fan of the pants. I've always liked it best when someone could fight and wear a dress. It basically goes back to that idea of her having to dress like a guy in order to be badass, or having to be Peach - why can't she be serious, feminine, and badass all at the same time? Zelda was always my link between Peach and Samus.

I like the dress too. I just don't like when people argue that her moveset can't work in pants because it totally does. She's just kicking.

 

[Deleted member]

Zelda is way more like Peach than Samus however. Even as Sheik, she didn't take into action all too much.

Twilight Princess was a great game, yet tried to be way too much like Ocarina of Time. Which is understandable, at that given time, but it still kind of hurts the game. Still love most of TP's mechanics! Especially the hidden sword techniques, which I sorely missed in Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild. Moreso in BotW, because the combat animations are kind of boring, and Skyward Sword at least had a FEW of the techniques in tact.

The point about Sheik was also commented by RelaxAlax on his KnowYourMoves about Zelda.

Outside of pretty minor stuff, he showed how Sheik’s moveset was made up due to the minor stuff the character actually did in OoT.

 

[staindgrey]

Zelda is way more like Peach than Samus however. Even as Sheik, she didn't take into action all too much.

Twilight Princess was a great game, yet tried to be way too much like Ocarina of Time. Which is understandable, at that given time, but it still kind of hurts the game. Still love most of TP's mechanics! Especially the hidden sword techniques, which I sorely missed in Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild. Moreso in BotW, because the combat animations are kind of boring, and Skyward Sword at least had a FEW of the techniques in tact.

I know I'm biased in my opinion because TP is my favorite Zelda game, but I don't consider being like OoT a bad thing.

At the time it was, because it was only three games removed from OoT (and to be honest, MM and WW also borrowed heavily from OoT as well, so it was starting to get old). But as a retrospective opinion, TP is just better than OoT. It's virtually a remake with more personality, better mechanics, more story, much better side characters and no ****ing OoT Water Temple.

Anyone who praises OoT as the best Zelda and lambasts TP is speaking strictly from a nostalgic perspective. TP was OoT but better-- and with an overly long tutorial.

 

[Will]

and no ****ing OoT Water Temple

Lakebed Temple

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Is anyone speculating on DLC newcomers right now? If so, who are you predicting, and what predictions in particular do you consider risky.

DaybreakHorizon Do you consider Lloyd to be a safe bet? What about your other predictions?

My Definitive Case for Lloyd lays out most of it out, but I legitimately believe that Lloyd is the closest thing to a shoe-in we have right now. This is assuming our Square Enix character is Erdrick.

I'd also call Steve a pretty safe bet. I have a speculation piece on him coming out soontm, but I haven't gotten around to typing it up yet. I'll try to have it finished by Friday as that's when my break ends.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I know I'm biased in my opinion because TP is my favorite Zelda game, but I don't consider being like OoT a bad thing.

At the time it was, because it was only three games removed from OoT (and to be honest, MM and WW also borrowed heavily from OoT as well, so it was starting to get old). But as a retrospective opinion, TP is just better than OoT. It's virtually a remake with more personality, better mechanics, more story, much better side characters and no ****ing OoT Water Temple.

Anyone who praises OoT as the best Zelda and lambasts TP is speaking strictly from a nostalgic perspective. TP was OoT but better-- and with an overly long tutorial.

The story had it's issues though. Especially regarding Ganondorf. It also really lacks the booming impact on the franchise that Ocarina of Time had. Midna was a great character, sure, but the way Ocarina of Time prepares you for the Ganondorf face up is definitely way better done than all of Twilight Princess' story. There's major plotholes in TP as well. Like, how did Zelda survive all this time? Why is Zelda even important at all (she might as well just not have been there honestly, she never even SEES the real Link before the face-off against Ganondorf)....

The Water Temple was true agony however, I do give you that. But all other dungeons in Ocarina of Time where real solid.

If we go story and character debt-wise anyway, Skyward Sword has all of the Zelda games beat. In terms of dungeons as well. Wind Waker and Majora's Mask coming second with story and characters. Speaking of the games with the younger heroes and how they compare with Ocarina of Time, yes they drew from Ocarina of Time but at the same time added a whole lot of their own mechanics, MM for example, the mask system and 72 Hours. Wind Waker? The artstyle and sailing did enough, as well as having a whole different story line altogheter.

Anyway, this is pretty much opinion talk. So feel free to disagree. I think that Wind Waker is probably the "best" Zelda game, prior to Breath of the Wild of course. But that game is new, and revolutionary, so it cheats itself into that position naturally.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The point about Sheik was also pointed by RelaxAlax on his KnowYourMoves about Zelda.

Outside of pretty minor stuff, he showed how Sheik’s moveset was made up due to the minor stuff the character actually did in OoT.

Oh, yeah, Sheik's totally original.

I still did like Zelda/Sheik together, but once they separated it'd have always made more sense for Impa to take that part. Sheik appeared, played her harp, and used a Deku Nut to cover her escape.

And since we all are talking about how the TP characters looked in Brawl vs. 4, I'd offer that it's not so much the art style as much as the fact that they just ****** up modelling the Sm4sh Zelda crew.

Spoiler: Link

Spoiler: Zelda

Spoiler: Ganondorf

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

About DLC: I think that there may be more third parties than usual. I was thinking about it, and I think it would be very strange if a character was included that was already a spirit. Like, you would unlock it on the spirit board, but if you would beat it, it wouldn't unlock if you didn't have the DLC... but if you did, you could play that spirit against your own character... which is that same spirit. Basically, it would make some pretty strange situations. Also, I would like to point out that Piranha Plant does not have a spirit, which is pretty questionable. Thus, I think that the certain interpretation of Reggie's statement, being that ALL of the new fighters are going to be from new series, is pretty likely.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Honestly talking with my bro, I’m actually totally cool with Sephiroth being dlc now.

Oh? That's nice to hear.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh? That's nice to hear.

Spoiler: If i was the one choosing the Square rep, i would absolutely go with this pick.

Just seeing this art makes me remember the sweet times i had playing Dragon Quest 8 when i was younger.

 

[Dee Dude]

You know, I feel kinda bad for Skull Kid fans.

With Young Link back as part of “Everyone is Here!”, this was probably the only chance for them to have a proper Majora’s Mask battle.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I feel kinda bad for Skull Kid fans.

With Young Link back as part of “Everyone is Here!”, this was probably the only chance for them to have a proper Majora’s Mask battle.

The Mii costume is at least solid, tbh.

 

[Will]

You know, I feel kinda bad for Skull Kid fans.

With Young Link back as part of “Everyone is Here!”, this was probably the only chance for them to have a proper Majora’s Mask battle.

Y'know, except just playing Majora's Mask.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, except just playing Majora's Mask.

Or Hyrule Warriors.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I said "If a character is revealed at the game awards, I'll let GothFluttershy pick my profile pic and say that I support Zoe for Smash for 1 month".

To people saying "I warned you" I knew what I was risking. And I like attention, so I don't really mind tbh.

Gee why would nintendo have shown a character in the dlc for one of their biggest cash cows at an event that is basically E3 Jr. You were askin for it.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

With Erdrick and Minecraft in the rumors, I think i'll put them as safe bets as DLC. As for the last two I feel Lloyd is definitely a contender but I also have my doubts since he wasnt in the base game after being a dlc costume in smash 4. Bethseda did talk to nintendo about smash so there could be something there too for Doomguy or whoever else. And lastly I guess Hayabusa could have something going for him since Koei Tecmo allowed Fatal Frame to be an assist trophy in game. He's also is relevant since the NES Classic is around and Dead or Alive 6 comes out in February. (My personal picks are all spirits whether that deconfirms them or not).

 

[Dee Dude]

Just saying, if Sakurai knew about Banjo & Kazooie’s large support, he would’ve just given them Spirits like other Western 3rd Parties...(Shantae, Rayman, etc)

*thinking emoji*

 

[Lollipopped]

You know, I feel kinda bad for Skull Kid fans.

With Young Link back as part of “Everyone is Here!”, this was probably the only chance for them to have a proper Majora’s Mask battle.

I'm still kinda mad that Skull Kid is just an Assist Trophy. What was the point of that if the Moon is an assist trophy, too? Stirring up false hope? Shattering dreams? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furthermore, they totally dropped the ball on Majora's Mask representation again, too. Young Link doesn't even use any of his items or design from MM. Hell, we only got one remix from MM and it's essentially just TLOZ main theme for the umpteenth time. It would have been nice to get a Majora's Mask medley (or an Astral Observatory remix!)

 

[ZephyrZ]

About DLC: I think that there may be more third parties than usual. I was thinking about it, and I think it would be very strange if a character was included that was already a spirit. Like, you would unlock it on the spirit board, but if you would beat it, it wouldn't unlock if you didn't have the DLC... but if you did, you could play that spirit against your own character... which is that same spirit. Basically, it would make some pretty strange situations. Also, I would like to point out that Piranha Plant does not have a spirit, which is pretty questionable. Thus, I think that the certain interpretation of Reggie's statement, being that ALL of the new fighters are going to be from new series, is pretty likely.

I do agree that DLC will likely be 3rd party. Smash 4 was almost entirely 3rd party outside of veterans and Corrin. Those characters are probably just expected to sell well on their own because they're novel and can draw in new crowds. Most major Nintendo icons are already playable to.

However, I really don't think there is anything about spirits on their own that inherently keep their character from appearing in a payable form. We have spirits for Kaptain K.Rool, Meta Ridley, several Wii Fit poses, Mega Lucario and Mega Mewtwo Y. Not allowing a character to appear because of image files with exp bars attached would be silly, especially when you can even have more then one of the same spirit.

Pretty much I agree with your point but not with your reasoning.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still kinda mad that Skull Kid is just an Assist Trophy. What was the point of that if the Moon is an assist trophy, too? Stirring up false hope? Shattering dreams? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furthermore, they totally dropped the ball on Majora's Mask representation again, too. Young Link doesn't even use any of his items or design from MM. Hell, we only got one remix from MM and it's essentially just TLOZ main theme for the umpteenth time. It would have been nice to get a Majora's Mask medley (or an Astral Observatory remix!)

They should have used Fierce Deity for Young Link’s final smash.

 

[AndreaAC]

Oh, yeah, Sheik's totally original.

I still did like Zelda/Sheik together, but once they separated it'd have always made more sense for Impa to take that part. Sheik appeared, played her harp, and used a Deku Nut to cover her escape.

And since we all are talking about how the TP characters looked in Brawl vs. 4, I'd offer that it's not so much the art style as much as the fact that they just ****** up modelling the Sm4sh Zelda crew.

Spoiler: Link

Spoiler: Zelda

Spoiler: Ganondorf

There's something about Smash 4's TP Link's face that unsettles me quite a lot...>_> I don't know what it is..

xD Was it really that hard to not make him as haunting? I mean, in the render it looks pretty good...and then you see how he looks in the model and...jesus christ, it gives you shivers and not for a good reason.

 

[Deleted member]

I do agree that DLC will likely be 3rd party. Smash 4 was almost entirely 3rd party outside of veterans and Corrin. Those characters are probably just expected to sell well on their own because they're novel and can draw in new crowds. Most major Nintendo icons are already playable to.

However, I really don't think there is anything about spirits on their own that inherently keep their character from appearing in a payable form. We have spirits for Kaptain K.Rool, Meta Ridley, several Wii Fit poses, Mega Lucario and Mega Mewtwo Y. Not allowing a character to appear because of image files with exp bars attached would be silly, especially when you can even have more then one of the same spirit.

Pretty much I agree with your point but not with your reasoning.

They could use a different art for them if they got playable.

There’s probably enough official art of characters like Bandana Dee or Dixie Kong to make it work.

Or they could even use their Smash Ultimate render like they did with Red, Leaf, Wii Fit Trainer, Cloud and Robin.

 

[ClaTheBae]

The Water Temple was true agony however, I do give you that.

never understood this. The Water Temple is one of the best designed temples in the entire game

Though I will admit that switching back an forth with the iron boots in the N64 version is a pain, the 3D remake fixes this completely

 

[Dee Dude]

I'm still kinda mad that Skull Kid is just an Assist Trophy. What was the point of that if the Moon is an assist trophy, too? Stirring up false hope? Shattering dreams? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furthermore, they totally dropped the ball on Majora's Mask representation again, too. Young Link doesn't even use any of his items or design from MM. Hell, we only got one remix from MM and it's essentially just TLOZ main theme for the umpteenth time. It would have been nice to get a Majora's Mask medley (or an Astral Observatory remix!)

The same reason of showing Knuckles at E3 to give us false hope for Shadow...;_;

They really need to rip the bandage off when comes to deconfirming popular characters as ATs and instead of teasing people for nothing.

And I can agree with you on the lack of MM love when they’re already bloating it with the OOT content.

 

[Will]

we need to complete the 3D zelda rep with some skyward sword

Yep, found our guy.