Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

I honestly think there’s too much stock in Steve and not enough in other 3rd parties like a series from Capcom.

At this point i’m confident in 3rd parties only, Dragon Quest being one of them, and no Steve.

The only reason Steve is being seriously talked about is Verge, and not only has he backtracked or demonstrated pure confusion on the “Minecraft content”, but other community members who know people have said absolutely nothing on Minecraft. They’ve even said they haven’t heard anything on it.

That, and this whole thing i’m considering on the lack of western 3rd parties, lead me to believe it’ll be Japanese created 3rd party picks. Lloyd, a Resident evil pick (Leon or Jill plz), Erdrick or the Luminary, and then one other. That would be a relatively solid cast.

 

[Deleted member]

The same reason of showing Knuckles at E3 to give us false hope for Shadow...;_;

They really need to rip the bandage off when comes to deconfirming popular characters as ATs and instead of teasing people for nothing.

And I can agree with you on the lack of MM love when they’re already bloating it with the OOT content.

They probably refuse to deconfirm characters from the get-go in order to keep the talk about the game online.

The less we know, the more we speculate.

 

[Pakky]

The same reason of showing Knuckles at E3 to give us false hope for Shadow...;_;

They really need to rip the bandage off when comes to deconfirming popular characters as ATs and instead of teasing people for nothing.

And I can agree with you on the lack of MM love when they’re already bloating it with the OOT content.

The Isaac thing was just mean.

 

[Deleted member]

Using BotW Zelda would need some reoworking with certain animations as they're all done around the idea that she's wearing a dress. It can be done, it's just more trouble than was likely worth it. I mean, ALBW has the best Zelda design so I'm glad they used that one.

It's not supposed to be fire. It's Holy Water. It's supposed to be Holy elemental. And is in the games that actually have elemental damage types.

I really don't know how to explain to you that "holy" weapons have always burned "unholy" things in Castlevania. Why do you think every hit lets out a spark and the enemies burst up in flames?

 

[Diddy Kong]

we need to complete the 3D zelda rep with some skyward sword

Yep, found our guy.

That ain't Impa.

 

[Dee Dude]

The Isaac thing was just mean.

Tell me about it.

-No AT in Smash 4
-Rathalos tweet
-Supposed “growth spurt”
-Trademark renewed
-Highly requested since Brawl
-The infamous Grinch leak
-Not shown til November Direct

I know these were all just coincidences but man, the Golden Sun fans got done dirty this time around.

 

[Icedragonadam]

The thing with western 3rd parties is that it'll be more difficult when negogiating rights overseas than the your own native country because of the whole language barrier, and of course many western ips not being popular in Japan to begin with. There are western 3rd party spirits but that's MUCH easier than getting a playable character, stage, and music.

 

[Iridium]

The same reason of showing Knuckles at E3 to give us false hope for Shadow...;_;

They really need to rip the bandage off when comes to deconfirming popular characters as ATs and instead of teasing people for nothing.

And I can agree with you on the lack of MM love when they’re already bloating it with the OOT content.

But I want my Mido AT!

He makes it impossible for any opponents to get past him, with a huge invisible wall somehow being there.

 

[Deleted member]

Using BotW Zelda would need some reoworking with certain animations as they're all done around the idea that she's wearing a dress. It can be done, it's just more trouble than was likely worth it. I mean, ALBW has the best Zelda design so I'm glad they used that one.

I really don't know how to explain to you that "holy" weapons have always burned "unholy" things in Castlevania. Why do you think every hit lets out a spark and the enemies burst up in flames?

I would like to explain it, since i have some time:

The monsters in Castlevania share the idea of being something unholy, which in the Middle Age was a term applied to anything involved with the demons or horrors of the planet that were against God’s pure creations.

The holy water, at least in theory, was supposed to be used as something that burned all the evil souls, power or energy it touched, and in the case of the monsters (who were completely opposed to God’s word and purity), they got completely consumed by the flames due to their completely evil nature.

You could argue that in Smash, the holy water deals damage on the evil places of the fighter’s souls, including temptations and bad actions from the past.

 

[Will]

That ain't Impa.

Nope, it isn't.

Groose time.

 

[ZephyrZ]

The reason they save assist trophy reveals is probably just to keep it a surprise, not because they want to torture supporters or anything. You know, the same way they usually don't normally reveal stages and soundtracks all at once.

The Isaac thing was just mean.

If you mean that tweet with Rathalos, that was probably just an unfortunate coincidence. I was pretty sure from day one of that tweet people were just straw grasping.

 

[staindgrey]

The story had it's issues though. Especially regarding Ganondorf. It also really lacks the booming impact on the franchise that Ocarina of Time had. Midna was a great character, sure, but the way Ocarina of Time prepares you for the Ganondorf face up is definitely way better done than all of Twilight Princess' story. There's major plotholes in TP as well. Like, how did Zelda survive all this time? Why is Zelda even important at all (she might as well just not have been there honestly, she never even SEES the real Link before the face-off against Ganondorf)....

The Water Temple was true agony however, I do give you that. But all other dungeons in Ocarina of Time where real solid.

If we go story and character debt-wise anyway, Skyward Sword has all of the Zelda games beat. In terms of dungeons as well. Wind Waker and Majora's Mask coming second with story and characters. Speaking of the games with the younger heroes and how they compare with Ocarina of Time, yes they drew from Ocarina of Time but at the same time added a whole lot of their own mechanics, MM for example, the mask system and 72 Hours. Wind Waker? The artstyle and sailing did enough, as well as having a whole different story line altogheter.

Anyway, this is pretty much opinion talk. So feel free to disagree. I think that Wind Waker is probably the "best" Zelda game, prior to Breath of the Wild of course. But that game is new, and revolutionary, so it cheats itself into that position naturally.

I won't go point by point here, because as you said, this pretty much opinion talk. We can each point to more objective points to push our subjective ones, but we'll just end up going in circles.

What I will say, though, is that I can't really agree or disagree with your assertion on Skyward Sword, because I never came close to beating the game. I didn't like the overworld/dungeon design at all in the four or five ones I got through. I didn't like the gameplay in the least, from its poorly designed stamina meter to the motion controls that only made combat something I wanted to avoid entirely. And the bowling bombs? **** the bowling bombs.

That perspective hinders my point of view of the game as a whole because I never got through all of it-- but at the same time, I feel it also reinforces it because I didn't enjoy the game enough to even beat it. It's the only Zelda game I've ever started (twice) and never played to completion. The new Zelda design was wonderful, as was the change in her relationship to Link. The art style was a nice blend between TP and WW. But... that's about all I liked about it.

Maybe the motion controls and constant desyncing of the Wiimote soured me too much, but there wasn't enough there to make me push through that inconvenience. And if Dragon Age II is any indication, I can push through subpar gameplay if the story and characters are good enough. (About twelve times, in fact. Love that game.)

 

[Deleted member]

The thing with western 3rd parties is that it'll be more difficult when negogiating rights overseas than the your own native country because of the whole language barrier, and of course many western ips not being popular in Japan to begin with. There are western 3rd party spirits but that's MUCH easier than getting a playable character, stage, and music.

There are cases where the language barrier can be taken down easily, imo.

Activision, for example, has given the Crash property in Japan to many developers during the past years, with the most recent being SEGA. If SEGA is still holding the marketing and brand rights of the franchise in Japan, they could work as Activision’s bridge when contacting with Nintendo of Japan and Sora Ltd.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Isaac thing was just mean.

Yes... The most teased character, treated like that. Sakurai seems to have a anti-Camelot bias or something

 

[Deleted member]

Is it alright if I copy-paste this text, rip it out of context and abuse it for personal reasons?

Feel free to

I honestly think there’s too much stock in Steve and not enough in other 3rd parties like a series from Capcom.

At this point i’m confident in 3rd parties only, Dragon Quest being one of them, and no Steve.

The only reason Steve is being seriously talked about is Verge, and not only has he backtracked or demonstrated pure confusion on the “Minecraft content”, but other community members who know people have said absolutely nothing on Minecraft. They’ve even said they haven’t heard anything on it.

That, and this whole thing i’m considering on the lack of western 3rd parties, lead me to believe it’ll be Japanese created 3rd party picks. Lloyd, a Resident evil pick (Leon or Jill plz), Erdrick or the Luminary, and then one other. That would be a relatively solid cast.

 

[SlickWylde]

Gee why would nintendo have shown a character in the dlc for one of their biggest cash cows at an event that is basically E3 Jr. You were askin for it.

There was no history of it, and Sakurai made it sound like they had barely even begun the DLC so I didn't think they'd announce it. Even with Mewtwo, they showed his in game model being worked on, so I thought they'd wait.

And like you said, it's a smaller E3 where they didn't have their own event, talking about a single DLC character months away. I actually think it was a weird choice, and I think it'd be safe to bet against 8/10 times, I just got unlucky.

IMO, retroactive "Obviously it would happen" is easy to say. So many events happen and the fanbase works themselves into a frenzy convinced there will be a reveal, and it never happens. I guess I've just become biased and always assume nothing will happen. At least that way I never get disappointed, I just might have to do a silly bet. (It's kinda a win win for me, I get a cool new character or I get to be right)

 

[KarneraMythos]

I'm still kinda mad that Skull Kid is just an Assist Trophy. What was the point of that if the Moon is an assist trophy, too? Stirring up false hope? Shattering dreams? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furthermore, they totally dropped the ball on Majora's Mask representation again, too. Young Link doesn't even use any of his items or design from MM. Hell, we only got one remix from MM and it's essentially just TLOZ main theme for the umpteenth time. It would have been nice to get a Majora's Mask medley (or an Astral Observatory remix!)

To be fair, Wind Waker!Link could have used the Skull Hammer, Deku Leaf, and even Grappling Hook as means to differentiate himself from his adult counterpart. He could be a Luigified clone, but he remains somewhere between an Echo Fighter and Luigi.

 

[staindgrey]

There are cases where the language barrier can be taken down easily, imo.

Activision, for example, has given the Crash property in Japan to many developers during the past years, with the most recent being SEGA. If SEGA is still holding the marketing and brand rights of the franchise in Japan, they could work as Activision’s bridge when contacting with Nintendo of Japan and Sora Ltd.

It's not language barrier that's a problem. I think it's a cultural barrier and more difficulty in handling copyright laws among different countries. Keeping the negotiations in relatively the same country-- and among fellow publishers and developers you already have experience with-- is just plain easier.

The hypothetical inclusion of Western IPs basically comes down to "does Nintendo consider it worth the extra effort or would they rather stick to the easier route?" Which is impossible for us to answer.

 

[Deleted member]

Taking in mind that two of the third party companies in Smash have been involved in many ways to the Crash IP in Japan (the two being SEGA and Konami), i could imagine them having some kind of contact with Activision.

Because of this, Activision could use one of the two to communicate with Nintendo Of Japan and Sora Ltd.

 

[Deleted member]

Breath of The Wild Zelda is best Zelda. Fite me, m8.

 

[Dee Dude]

Ridley and K.Rool - Scaly reptile villains.

Isaac and Waluigi - Camelot created.

Ridley = Waluigi: Purple lanky villains who are constantly memed about not being in Smash

K.Rool = Isaac: “Irrelevant/dead” characters who are popularly requested.

Seeing a serious pattern here.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not language barrier that's a problem. I think it's a cultural barrier and more difficulty in handling copyright laws among different countries. Keeping the negotiations in relatively the same country-- and among fellow publishers and developers you already have experience with-- is just plain easier.

The hypothetical inclusion of Western IPs basically comes down to "does Nintendo consider it worth the extra effort or would they rather stick to the easier route?" Which is impossible for us to answer.

In the case of Crash, and if SEGA has still the rights for the IP in Japan, i could see the company approaching Nintendo and at least mentioning to some extent the option of Crash. Maybe something like “If you are interested, we can contact the original owners of this IP to negotiate the use of it in the project”.

 

[staindgrey]

Breath of The Wild Zelda is best Zelda. Fite me, m8.

I will.

Let's go, nerd.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Ridley and K.Rool - Scaly villains

Isaac and Waluigi - Camelot bros

Hmmm...

They even have a purple guy and a guy that hasn't had a game in almost a decade!

 

[Deleted member]

Best Zelda game.

 

[Bionichute]

Us Gamers™ are very rational and need to be taken serio-HEY YOU IN THE BACK STOP YOUR VEGAN FLAT EARTH NEONAZI RAP I'M TRYING TO SAVE OUR *****!
Anyway, we're a welcoming bunch who would gladly see more peo- HEY LEAVE THAT PERSON ALONE JUST BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T LIKE WALUIGI DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET TO HARASS HER
As I was saying, we're grea- OH GODDAMMIT WHY DOES THIS GUY HAVE A CONSPIRACY THEORIST NEONAZI AS HIS AVATAR MODS, DO SOMETHING!

now if you excuse me i have to go sacrifice mummified crocodiles to lord sobek

 

[RandomAce]

There was also that Green pixel on Little Mac’s shoe that so happened to be where Isaac was on that mural.

That bolstered hopes 10 fold when that surfaced.

 

[Deleted member]

I will.

Let's go, nerd.

TP Zelda has no soul. She’s like a lifeless walking mannequin.

 

[staindgrey]

TP Zelda has no soul. She’s like a lifeless walking mannequin.

And you can't kill that which has no life.

What's BotW Zelda gonna do, read at me?

 

[Deleted member]

WoG Zelda could melt the bodies of each one of us while only leaving the hearts intact.

 

[Deleted member]

And you can't kill that which has no life.

What's BotW Zelda gonna do, read at me?

Hit in you in the face with TriForce, that’s what she’ll do. TP Zelda probably bores her enemies to death with how monotone and dull she is.

 

[staindgrey]

Hit in you in the face with TriForce, that’s what she’ll do. TP Zelda probably bores her enemies to death with how monotone and dull she is.

You confuse monotone and dull with composed and diplomatic.

TP Zelda can lead a kingdom. BotW Zelda can disappoint her only four friends and whine at Link through an iPad.

 

[LetterO]

Hit in you in the face with TriForce, that’s what she’ll do. TP Zelda probably bores her enemies to death with how monotone and dull she is.

At least TP Zelda got in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

You confuse monotone and dull with composed and diplomatic.

TP Zelda can lead a kingdom. BotW Zelda can disappoint her only four friends and whine at Link through an iPad.

Meanwhile, WoG Zelda trapped Ganon with ease on a book for God knows how long.

 

[Dee Dude]

Not to mention that extra detail of Isaac using a spell from his game when any other fake leak would had him with a generic sword holding pose.

The amount of trouble that leaker went through to make it as believable as possible to fool people really pisses me off.

 

[Will]

Breath of The Wild Zelda is best Zelda. Fite me, m8.

sorry, i don't mess with GILFs, that ***** is 117 years old

 

[praline]

Oh? That's nice to hear.

If you had waited 4 more days it coukd have been a month between my post and your reply.

Spoiler: If i was the one choosing the Square rep, i would absolutely go with this pick.

View attachment 185251


Just seeing this art makes me remember the sweet times i had playing Dragon Quest 8 when i was younger.

Hell yeah, my dude.

To be honest, I gave up predicting Sakurai. I can't, so I won't. All the things we think we know that aren't based on actual official evidence (like the box) is just echo chamber stuff.

But who do I want that's feasible?

Announced on Valentines Day.

I will ****ing switch mains on the spot.

That would be the greatest thing ever.

 

[Deleted member]

Not to mention that extra detail of Isaac using a spell from his game when any other fake leak would had him with a generic sword holding pose.

The amount of trouble that leake5 went through to make it as believable as possible to fool people really pisses me off.

And to this day, we don’t know who made it besides some theories pointing at Mariotehplumber.

If i am honest, the Grinch era felt like living in The Dark Knight.

 

[Deleted member]

You confuse monotone and dull with composed and diplomatic.

TP Zelda can lead a kingdom. BotW Zelda can disappoint her only four friends and whine at Link through an iPad.

BOTW Zelda actually plays a role in her game. TP Zelda isn’t relevant until later near the end, to be posssessd by Ganon.

 

[Deleted member]

BOTW Zelda actually plays a role in her game. TP Zelda isn’t relevant until later near the end, to be posssessd by Ganon.

WoG Zelda had a full game where she was playable.