Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[staindgrey]

Nero would also make sense, but I think Capcom understands that Dante is still more popular and relevant as a character, at least according to fan polls. It's not like Persona where the next protagonist immediately displaced the last one in terms of both importance of popularity.

And yet.

Mega Man never got in that game.

 

[Deleted member]

He has said a lot of things. @NineS?


I've never been a Samus main myself, but my brother played a ton of Smash 4 and mained and seconded . In Ultimate, Samus is easily his best character and he's probably switching mains. I can't tell you specifically what's changed about her, but I can absolutely tell you that I hate when he picks her at character select.

I think this game's emphasis on projectile play boosted her and DS quite a bit. Plus, their aerials just seem really good. I was super confused when I saw all the bashing.

What I don't understand is ZeRo's stance on Kirby. Like...he says he feels worse, but he actually feels a lot better to me personally? Not really seeing where he's coming from, but again, I'm not a tournament player.

Also, people in his comment section were asking for Inkling nerfs. Seems a bit knee-jerk when the game isn't even a month old yet, but eh, people are also yelling about K. Rool. Chrom is also incredibly surprising, although I think ZeRo might be overselling it by saying he may be the best in the game after Inking. That recovery is still really bad and is going to hurt him a lot.

 

[Pakky]

And yet.

Mega Man never got in that game.

Capcom is a dumb.

WHERE IS AMINGO YOU COWARDS?

No Groot? READ THE ROOM!

 

[Robertman2]

On the topic of 3rd party characters, didn't Nier: Automata's developer say he would do anything for money at one point?

yeah but it's yoko taro

he'd do anything for money. even make official 2b porn

 

[ZephyrZ]

I haven't watched ZeRo's video yet, but wow that tier list seems super generous. Only two low tiers? Did Dedede get buffs I didn't hear about?

And what happened to Sheik for him to put her so dang low? She's still a mobile, frame-data and combo machine. I fought (and admittedly beat) a Sheik player the other day who's combos just kept carrying me effortlessly off stage and putting me in the extremely scary state of having to recover against her. Yet ZeRo puts her lower then Incineroar? Don't get me wrong, Incineroar can surprisingly oppressive despite to his mobility thanks to his solid kit, but more oppressive then Shiek?

For the record I really respect ZeRo as a player and do value his opinions on these things but something about this list just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Pakky]

yeah but it's yoko taro

he'd do anything for money. even make official 2b porn

'Looks at the gigs of porn in that one folder' How despicable shame on him!

 

[Noipoi]

I like memes.

 

[Luigi The President]

And yet.

Mega Man never got in that game.

To this day I do not understand that decision

Why do people like anything?

Why is Pokemon my favorite series ever? Why is Toothless from HTTYD one of my favorite fictional characters? Why do redheads make me go loopy?

Some of it is childhood, I played Pokemon as a kid. I watched HTTYD as a kid. Ariel made me feel funny as a kid.

But on the other hand, sometimes stuff just clicks with you. I didn't play Splatoon or Undertale as a kid but I love them today. Incineroar didn't exist when I was a kid but I love him today. I didn't care about K Rool before this year but now he's one of my favorite characters.


I admit some of @GothFluttershy's comments are...disturbing at best and illegal at worst. But they shouldn't be made fun of for liking something.

Just...keep the weirder stuff to yourself, ok?

I'd completely agree but the thing is if someone brings up their attraction to a puppy I am going to make fun of them because that's not okay

 

[Knight Dude]

And yet.

Mega Man never got in that game.

Why'd you have to remind me.

And then we got a Mega Man back, only to lose the X-Men.

 

[Noipoi]

I'd completely agree but the thing is if someone brings up their attraction to a puppy I am going to make fun of them because that's not okay

Oh totally, that's freaky. I just meant liking the show itself.

 

[Pakky]

Why do people like anything?

Why is Pokemon my favorite series ever? Why is Toothless from HTTYD one of my favorite fictional characters? Why do redheads make me go loopy?

Some of it is childhood, I played Pokemon as a kid. I watched HTTYD as a kid. Ariel made me feel funny as a kid.

But on the other hand, sometimes stuff just clicks with you. I didn't play Splatoon or Undertale as a kid but I love them today. Incineroar didn't exist when I was a kid but I love him today. I didn't care about K Rool before this year but now he's one of my favorite characters.


I admit some of @GothFluttershy's comments are...disturbing at best and illegal at worst. But they shouldn't be made fun of for liking something.

Just...keep the weirder stuff to yourself, ok?

Sally from 'Nightmare Before Christmas' did that to me.

I turned out... just... fine...

But yeah be nice everyone.

 

[staindgrey]

I think this game's emphasis on projectile play boosted her and DS quite a bit. Plus, their aerials just seem really good. I was super confused when I saw all the bashing.

What I don't understand is ZeRo's stance on Kirby. Like...he says he feels worse, but he actually feels a lot better to me personally? Not really seeing where he's coming from, but again, I'm not a tournament player.

Also, people in his comment section were asking for Inkling nerfs. Seems a bit knee-jerk when the game isn't even a month old yet, but eh, people are also yelling about K. Rool. Chrom is also incredibly surprising, although I think ZeRo might be overselling it by saying he may be the best in the game after Inking. That recovery is still really bad and is going to hurt him a lot.

People always kneejerk react to these things.

At the same time, after watching some high level Inkling play, I agree with Zero that Inkling will absolutely be top tier. Chrom, it all depends on if/when the meta leads character selection in the anti-Marth-clone direction, much like how anti-Bayonetta and anti-Metaknight dominated For and Brawl, respectively. The fact of the matter is that are all incredibly good and easy to pick up and play, and I think their strengths and aggressive playstyles will significantly alter the course of the meta as we get into spring and summer. Lots and lots of people are going to play them, and lots and lots of other people will learn to play against them. At that point, will Chrom's recovery finally hurt him too much to the point that he falls lower than the other three? Or is his command of the stage so much better that it continues to offset that weakness?

 

[Idon]

And yet.

Mega Man never got in that game.

Well that's probably Capcom at peak "We can't possibly fail" mode.

 

[Deleted member]

Man, Isabelle just isn't clicking with me too much. I love playing her, but I can't figure out how to set things up with her at all. I'm gonna try her some more later this evening and see if I can improve a bit, but TBH I'm thinking I'll probably move her down to my secondaries and focus on someone else. Wario is very tempting to me given his fantastic air game and the familiarity I have from playing him for a decade.

 

[Pakky]

Well that's probably Capcom at peak "We can't possibly fail" mode.

Then the fire happened.
Arrogant ********.

 

[Noipoi]

Man, Isabelle just isn't clicking with me too much. I love playing her, but I can't figure out how to set things up with her at all. I'm gonna try her some more later this evening and see if I can improve a bit, but TBH I'm thinking I'll probably move her down to my secondaries and focus on someone else. Wario is very tempting to me given his fantastic air game and the familiarity I have from playing him for a decade.

Step 1, play on Wrecking Crew.

Step 2, get under your opponent.

Step 3, spam down special.

Step 4, ???

Step 5, Profit.

 

[Wademan94]

Wasn’t sure if this was shared yet, but I found this and thought it was charming.

 

[Noipoi]

Wasn’t sure if this was shared yet, but I found this and thought it was charming.

Man, the new Star Allies dlc is weird.

 

[staindgrey]

Man, Isabelle just isn't clicking with me too much. I love playing her, but I can't figure out how to set things up with her at all. I'm gonna try her some more later this evening and see if I can improve a bit, but TBH I'm thinking I'll probably move her down to my secondaries and focus on someone else. Wario is very tempting to me given his fantastic air game and the familiarity I have from playing him for a decade.

I feel you.

I came into this game determined to main Daisy. So far I have played the second most online matches with her and her GSP isssssss........ 44k.

I'm just not getting her yet.

 

[Noipoi]

I feel you.

I came into this game determined to main Daisy. So far I have played the second most online matches with her and her GSP isssssss........ 44k.

I'm just not getting her yet.

You just gotta force it, dude.

When I first played Incineroar it was weird. But I liked him so much I pushed through the weirdness with sheer Determination.
Now he's one of my best characters. I'm not saying this'll definitely work for you, just offering another perspective.

 

[GoeGoe]

I came into this game determined to main Daisy.
I'm just not getting her yet.

She's exactly Peach!

 

[KarneraMythos]

I honestly think a Capcom and Namco rep is inevitable. They have SO many influential franchises AND a close working relationship with Nintendo with future games coming out on the Switch. It'd be insane for Nintendo not to pick a character from that selection.

Mark my words, Dante and Nightmare are the most obvious picks (outside of like, Erdrick, but that's more due to the "leaks")

If Capcom gets a fourth rep, wouldn't it serve to reason that Namco gets a little more than just Nightmare? Don't get me wrong, Nightmare would be badass, but getting Dante is having 4 Capcom reps in total while Namco lags behind with 2. It'd be pretty funny if we get every Namco-related guest character/reference from Soul Calibur playable, at least up to SCIII.

Personally, I dont think Nightmare is going to be picked. Yeah, the SC VI is not on switch argument flies out the window now with the Joker reveal but I just dont feel they'd be able to implement his style. It's the same reason, imo why Sakurai had a problem adding Heihachi because imo, his mechanics would be difficult to add into smash. I think it would be the same for Nightmare. I am not sure how they would implement his terror charge for instance or his range. That's a similar problem why I think Sephiroth's masamune would have too much range.

Nightmare would be a great choice in the future though, at least since Namco's short of 2 characters compared to the others. He'd be a solid middle-ground between Black Knight and a Zelda villain just based on aesthetics alone. If Square ends up getting 2 more reps out of nowhere while Namco gets left with Pac-attack, well that ain't right.

I keep screwing over my own GSP.

Whenever I run into a player who's just a bit better then me, I keep asking for rematches thinking "if I play just a bit better, I'll get them this time"! I can't help it, that's just how I play games. When something seems frustrating but not hopeless I keep trying it over and over and over again with different tactics and strategies until I finally beat it.

The downside is that I'll fight three random people and beat all them, but then run across one person and get my butt kicked by them 5 times straight before they get bored and leave, undoing all the GSP boosts I got before. I'm not sure I'll ever get into Elite Smash if I keep this up.

In all fairness, what you're doing isn't a bad thing per se. I challenge players who kick my ass to rematches for the matchup experience alone. Hell, I even offer 2/3 and 3/5 to players I beat first, because it's always good to learn about what your opponent's main can do.

It's a rare opportunity with characters you hardly see, and it sucks when they bail out after the first match cause you miss out on an enlightening experience. I'm in a camp where I can care less about my own GSP because I consider myself a trash player anyway.

I sure hope so. Gotta bless 'em with the gift of light. What if they pick DMC5 Nero as a shill pick? And why would I still be happy with that?

Nightmare would be cool too, but I'm hoping for a Mishima more. Tekken's always been my jam.

I think Nero would be a solid pick for a character since he'd still have his DMC4 look as an alt to go by. Plus, we already have Reuben Langdon with a playable role, so giving Johnny Yong Bosch a Fighter character would be a neat subversion to a Devil May Cry rep. Though, going by your comment, you're probably just being jokey about it.

 

[Potato_]

I honestly think a Capcom and Namco rep is inevitable. They have SO many influential franchises AND a close working relationship with Nintendo with future games coming out on the Switch. It'd be insane for Nintendo not to pick a character from that selection.

Mark my words, Dante and Nightmare are the most obvious picks (outside of like, Erdrick, but that's more due to the "leaks")

100% agree. Capcom is not only a juggernaut in the gaming industry, but clearly are fine working with Nintendo on Smash, considering the three characters, two stages and ****ton of music tracks, along with the beautiful recreation of SF2's arcade mode in WoL. Bandai having only Pac-Man despite the work they've put into both Smash 4 and Ultimate just doesn't make sense to me at all either.

I agree with Dante as most likely for Capcom, but I don't see Nightmare happening (although DAMN would he be badass). My opinion is that Bandai's rep is Solaire, and if that isn't happening then most likely Lloyd.

I sure hope so. Gotta bless 'em with the gift of light. What if they pick DMC5 Nero as a shill pick? And why would I still be happy with that?

Nightmare would be cool too, but I'm hoping for a Mishima more. Tekken's always been my jam.

There's a part of me that would be even happier with Nero over Dante. Love both those guys though.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm doing Kirby's for characters I think could be dlc, here's the first one.

I don't think Amaterasu's the most likely, but it was a request. You know how I am with requests.

 

[ClaTheBae]

I feel you.

I came into this game determined to main Daisy. So far I have played the second most online matches with her and her GSP isssssss........ 44k.

I'm just not getting her yet.

On the opposite end of what Noi said, don't force it if it doesn't feel natural to you. Wait until you understand the game's mechanics a little more. Right now, Lucina is my main because she feels natural to me (and she's cute) but down the line when the game becomes more comfortable for me I want to try picking up Isabelle or Pit.

 

[Noipoi]

On the opposite end of what Noi said, don't force it if it doesn't feel natural to you. Wait until you understand the game's mechanics a little more. Right now, Lucina is my main because she feels natural to me (and she's cute) but down the line when the game becomes more comfortable for me I want to try picking up Isabelle or Pit.

HOW DARE YOU OPPOSE ME.


Nah, this is a good idea too. Just do what feel right, staindgrey .

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'm doing Kirby's for characters I think could be dlc, here's the first one.
View attachment 183320
I don't think Amaterasu's the most likely, but it was a request. You know how I am with requests.

I looove Ammy in smash, holy ****

 

[staindgrey]

You just gotta force it, dude.

When I first played Incineroar it was weird. But I liked him so much I pushed through the weirdness with sheer Determination.
Now he's one of my best characters. I'm not saying this'll definitely work for you, just offering another perspective.

Oh I know. Problem is this is the first time I've taken on a character I don't like and forced myself to like. Usually when I pick up a new character it's either, "Oh, this is cool and I wanna try more," or "Oh. Oh man. I don't like this at all." Peach has always been the latter. So I'm labbing her a bit and trying to change my muscle memory to do more float-oriented stuff, but it's not fun or intuitive yet, while there are so many other characters I can just pick up and enjoy.

You know how when you're underwater everything you hear/see is muffled and you move more slowly? Then you get back above water and everything feels normal again?

are me above water.

are me learning to swim.

is me ****ing drowning.

 

[Potato_]

I don't think the Links have ever felt as good as they have in Ultimate.

Seriously considering maining Adult Link or Toon, which I wasn't expecting going in.

 

[KarneraMythos]

And yet.

Mega Man never got in that game.

Ehh, this was in a time where Capcom treated all instances of the Blue Bomber as the red-headed stepchild of their family. They also tried shilling Donte for Playstation All-Stars. I still think they'd go for Dante given how heavily-requested Dante vs. Bayonetta is.

 

[staindgrey]

On the opposite end of what Noi said, don't force it if it doesn't feel natural to you. Wait until you understand the game's mechanics a little more. Right now, Lucina is my main because she feels natural to me (and she's cute) but down the line when the game becomes more comfortable for me I want to try picking up Isabelle or Pit.

Unwitting Lucina mains unite!

Seriously she's so good in this game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I haven't watched ZeRo's video yet, but wow that tier list seems super generous. Only two low tiers? Did Dedede get buffs I didn't hear about?

And what happened to Sheik for him to put her so dang low? She's still a mobile, frame-data and combo machine. I fought (and admittedly beat) a Sheik player the other day who's combos just kept carrying me effortlessly off stage and putting me in the extremely scary state of having to recover against her. Yet ZeRo puts her lower then Incineroar? Don't get me wrong, Incineroar can surprisingly oppressive despite to his mobility thanks to his solid kit, but more oppressive then Shiek?

For the record I really respect ZeRo as a player and do value his opinions on these things but something about this list just doesn't seem right to me.

The few amount of low tiers pretty much stems from that there's no meta atm, so most characters feel good because they're looked at in isolation, but a lot of them will drop off when we can get a better grasp of whether the tools they have are actually useful. That, and any tier lists that people make atm are still just first impressions, it's been 10 days with a game which has 74 characters in it and only just had its first proper tournament, so even if you're someone like ZeRo, it's not yet possible to really be able to lay a foundation for a tier list and build from there, because you don't really have a point of reference to compare any character to, and neither do we know which strengths are valuable and which weaknesses are seriously glaring, not to mention that matchup knowledge is basically nonexistant atm.

I just look at these sort of lists as 'how good does this character feel to play' and with no considerations beyond that, because that's the only way we can rate characters atm. It's going to take a long time before we get tier lists that are well thought out and might even be close to hitting the mark, Smash 4 had to wait a year and a half for its first official tier list, and I suspect it'll take even longer before we see one for Ultimate.

 

[staindgrey]

She's exactly Peach!

And I don't play Peach.

I have never enjoyed playing Peach.

I have never even remotely considered the possibility of learning to play Peach.

But I ****ing love Daisy. Auuuugh!

 

[ClaTheBae]

Unwitting Lucina mains unite!

Seriously she's so good in this game.

Yeah like at first I was upset cause it seemed like her F smash length was nerfed but the fact that her dash dance is so good and every aerial besides dair still comes out frame 6 makes her a huge threat. More so than marth in my opinion since her aggressive play style gives you a lot more results

 

[Deleted member]

And I don't play Peach.

I have never enjoyed playing Peach.

I have never even remotely considered the possibility of learning to play Peach.

But I ****ing love Daisy. Auuuugh!

she doesn't have a "hi im daisy" taunt, so shes a low tier pick sorry dude

 

[FalcoXP]

And I don't play Peach.

I have never enjoyed playing Peach.

I have never even remotely considered the possibility of learning to play Peach.

But I ****ing love Daisy. Auuuugh!

I get that. Happened to me with Lucina. Im comfortable playing as Lucina, but I dont have the same feeling with Marth.

 

[ClaTheBae]

And I don't play Peach.

I have never enjoyed playing Peach.

I have never even remotely considered the possibility of learning to play Peach.

But I ****ing love Daisy. Auuuugh!

Well I don't know how much you're into the complicated stuff but I've been labbing her and there's some cool stuff she has.

For one, you can combo the weak hit of her down tilt into nair. Pretty good for getting someone off stage

Turnips are good as hell and you should use them whenever you aren't right in your opponent's face. Seriously don't stop throwing them until they approach. If you have one when they start to approach, throw it up into the air. This will prevent them from trying to get in above you or it will create extra damage if you throw them into it.

You can do some cool stuff with her turnips at close range too. If you time it right, you can Z drop a turnip right above the opponent, hit them with it, then quickly back air, hitting the opponent and catching the turnip in the process. She gets crazy damage off of that.

Also, if you pull a saturn, don't throw it. Just go into floating and hit them with an aerial, they'll be too afraid to shield while you're holding saturn.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I felt like I couldn't wait so I bought the Fighter's Pass.

No way I wouldn't have anyway, really~

 

[Noipoi]

I felt like I couldn't wait so I bought the Fighter's Pass.

No way I wouldn't have anyway, really~

Every other character is a Rabbid.

Not even the funny one from Mario + Rabbids, just the really, really annoying ones.

 

[Koopaul]

Even though I've been playing Smash for years I just learned something ridiculous. Just how much people hate taunting after getting a KO. Like... wow.

For many years when my friends and I would play and we got a KO we'd taunt as a way of saying: "Yay! I did it!" because we were having fun playing a video game. There is no malice. No cockiness. It's just a "booyah!" kind of thing.

Well appearantly it's seen as highly disrespectful. I dared to taunt after a KO in an online match and the guy went beserk! I was seriously confused as to what he was doing as the other matches he seemed to play normally. I eventually looked it up and I was shocked how mad people get over a funny little animation in a video game featuring a big fat crocodile who sucks you up with a gun!

But I get it. Gaming culture can be really toxic and so taunting is probably often interpreted as a way for the player to say "I'm better than you" or "You suck". I never want to give the impression that I'm saying that. Too bad. These taunts are pretty fun.