Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

If anything that also is a double edged sword because then you're just going to increase the ''Well they can add this stupid dude why not Goku."

Because you know there's some frat boy fool out there who is going to say it.

Yeah, but there are complaints like that for literally everything.

 

[vaanrose]

If anything that also is a double edged sword because then you're just going to increase the ''Well they can add this stupid dude why not Goku."

Because you know there's some frat boy fool out there who is going to say it.

Man, I've said that, lol.

 

[Shroob]

*****, what?

Ya'll never seen the Fire Emblem subreddit?

When Dark Samus and Chrom were revealed, the Metroid sub was kissing the ground Sakurai walked on while the FE sub was cursing Sakurai for adding another character.

Small fractions of a community, but the FE fandom is one of the most self loathing fandom I've ever seen.

 

[Deleted member]

Dragon Quest isn’t even a bad franchise at all.

Why a character from there is bad?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean, you kinda are.


My mindset is "Anyone can be DLC, Sakurai will make it work."


You're sitting here with "Well actually, he can't be because he won't sell well/isn't well known enough"

But that's not realistic. I am being realistic.

You are not.

Not everyone can be dlc, because of course some of them have a risk of not selling.

In the grand scheme of things? Dragon Quest isn't that bad off when it comes to selling DLC but it comes down to who they pick to represent the series. That's all I've been arguing.

Because Sakurai can't make something sell if people don't recognize what they are actually buying. At that point it's out of his hands and in the hands of purely the consumers.

I don't see how you don't get that.

That's not narrow minded in the least.

 

[Deleted member]

If anything that also is a double edged sword because then you're just going to increase the ''Well they can add this stupid dude why not Goku."

Because you know there's some frat boy fool out there who is going to say it.

Does some random dude on the internet really matter? "They can add X but not Y?" has always been and aleays will be a thing with Smash. See: ROB, Dark Pit, Corrin, ****ing anyone someone doesn't like

 

[Noipoi]

I can't wait for Sakurai to shut us up with an Undertale character another surprising dlc character.

 

[Shroob]

But that's not realistic. I am being realistic.

You are not.

Not everyone can be dlc, because of course some of them have a risk of not selling.

In the grand scheme of things? Dragon Quest isn't that bad off when it comes to selling DLC but it comes down to who they pick to represent the series. That's all I've been arguing.

Because Sakurai can't make something sell if people don't recognize what they are actually buying. At that point it's out of his hands and in the hands of purely the consumers.

I don't see how you don't get that.

That's not narrow minded in the least.

We're going to have Piranha Plant as buyable after January 31st.

A goddamn Piranha Plant.


And Persona 5, while popular, only sold 2 million units worldwide. Even if a lot of people who are online recognize Joker, there's going to be even more who have no ****ing idea who the hell he is, especially if they don't own a Playstation.

 

[Deleted member]

Ya'll never seen the Fire Emblem subreddit?

When Dark Samus and Chrom were revealed, the Metroid sub was kissing the ground Sakurai walked on while the FE sub was cursing Sakurai for adding another character.

Small fractions of a community, but the FE fandom is one of the most self loathing fandom I've ever seen.

Ah yes, the entirety of the FE fanbase consists of the FE reddit.

 

[Saetanigera]

Yay, we got this cool character! Where do they come from? I'll look it up.
vs
We got a protagonist with a sword? Yeah he's from one of the most famous series of all time. Oh, well, I guess they deserve the spot.

I prefer we got sold on the character we're getting vs the series they came from.

 

[Shroob]

Ah yes, the entirety of the FE fanbase consists of the FE reddit.

Ya skipped the line where I said "Small fraction of the community"

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can't wait for Sakurai to shut us up with an Undertale character another surprising dlc character.

Watch it be Kratos from God of War.

 

[ChronoBound]

You didn't exactly have that to go by when Roy was added in Melee.

He was added back in Smash 4 because he was decently popular within the Smash community.

And he's back again now because: "EVERYONE IS HERE" is the literal definition of the game.

Roy was among the Top 2 wanted character for Smash 4 during Japan (the other was Mewtwo). Even in the West, Roy was in the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4, and Mewtwo within the Top 3. For Smash 5 (later named Ultimate), Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Snake were all within the Top 10 most wanted characters worldwide. There is a reason Sakurai made that cryptic comment about all the veterans returning being something he felt the fans wanted (due to cut veterans dominating the most wanted characters list for the next game starting in 2008, and the fact Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers may very well have been within the Top 5 for the ballot).

 

[Double K]

I can see where Fisher is coming from. Fates still sold really well, I think just a bit less than Awakening? But since you could buy the other paths digitally then it might've made more money overall.

Bayonetta actually did relatively well for being on the Wii U, she hit around the one million mark and for a niche franchise that's not bad.

And Lucas, Marth, and Roy were all in the base game. If they were DLC it'd be different because then consumers would think "Who's he? Not buying" but that's not possible when all three are in the base game.

The thing is, it's assuming everyone who played Smash 4 played Melee/Brawl which is a dumb assumption for any kind of game

 

[Pokechu]

We're going to have Piranha Plant as buyable after January 31st.

A goddamn Piranha Plant.


And Persona 5, while popular, only sold 2 million units worldwide. Even if a lot of people who are online recognize Joker, there's going to be even more who have no ****ing idea who the hell he is, especially if they don't own a Playstation.

What casual isn't going to want to play as a Piranha Plant? "The thing from Mario?? In SMASH???? LOL"

Everyone knows what a Piranha Plant is and everyone would find it the funniest thing, just like how the hardcore fanbases got over their initial reaction.

 

[Deleted member]

you know when Chrom was revealed I was like ehhh another FE dude no thanks but now I can't imagine Ultimate without him he's so goddamn fun to play lmao

 

[DarthEnderX]

But hey let's rewrite history shall we? The Dragon Quest series is a blip in the RPG radar everywhere in the world save Japan.

I got news for ya. Aside from Final Fantasy, the entire JRPG genre is a blip on the radar outside Japan.

Dragon Quest is relatively niche, and is STILL probably in the top 5 JRPG franchises outside Japan. Because EVERYTHING but Final Fantasy is relatively niche.

 

[Shroob]

What casual isn't going to want to play as a Piranha Plant? "The thing from Mario?? In SMASH???? LOL"

Everyone knows what a Piranha Plant is and everyone would find it the funniest thing, just like how the hardcore fanbases got over their initial reaction.

By that same logic, what casual isn't going to want to play with Goku, but he has a sword?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch Sakurai surprise us with the following.

-Kratos
-Joker (Confirmed)
-Master Chief
-Sans
-Scorpion

 

[Tree Gelbman]

We're going to have Piranha Plant as buyable after January 31st.

A goddamn Piranha Plant.


And Persona 5, while popular, only sold 2 million units worldwide. Even if a lot of people who are online recognize Joker, there's going to be even more who have no ****ing idea who the hell he is, especially if they don't own a Playstation.

The Piranha Plant will sell horribly yes, but that's mostly because everyone's going to get the ****** for free anyways. Like a majority of Smash fans will be early installers so of course he'll sell poorly. Not because he's such a WTF character, but because he literally comes free for pre-orders and pre-installs.

Also I have yet to see a single ''WHO?" reaction to Joker. I still haven't started Persona 5 (I'm waiting to buy it to see if someone snatches it for Christmas for me.) but even I the most basic ***** when it comes to JRPGs instantly knew who the series was from the start of the reveal trailer.

I suppose you could argue that if a Toriyama design pops up in a trailer you'd know it's either Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest, but at that point I also have to look back to Reggie's words as well.

Each character being added is suppose to bring something new and exciting right. Would two DLC choices really be from JRPG series? Maybe, but that's definitely something to think about too.

 

[Double K]

View attachment 183099
Sure, DQ may get a large proportion of sales from Japan, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a success elsewhere. It’s a million+ seller in NA, and DQ 11 furthers that by being able to compete with freaking Spider-Man in the month it released. It’s like Joker and Persona 5, while there are more Japanese that will be initially hyped as fans due to the nature of the game being a JRPG, it doesn’t mean that Joker/Persona 5 is insignificant everywhere else.

I haven’t played a single DQ game but from what I’ve seen it looks pretty cool as a series and I can respect its success and influence its had in the industry for the past 3 decades. I welcome Erdrick with open arms and I’m sure other Ultimate DLC customers will as well.

DQ sells pretty well in Europe. Likewise, most of the sales for Zelda and Metroid are in the west.

Anyway, the whole point is trying to discredit Erdrick's ubiquity as an icon of JRPG. If Mario is to Video Games what Superman is to Comics, then Erdrick is the Hal Jordan.

 

[Noipoi]

If a DQ character gets in I want Sakurai to purposefully fake us out and make us think it's Goku for a second.

 

[Shroob]

The Piranha Plant will sell horribly yes, but that's mostly because everyone's going to get the ****** for free anyways. Like a majority of Smash fans will be early installers so of course he'll sell poorly. Not because he's such a WTF character, but because he literally comes free for pre-orders and pre-installs.

Also I have yet to see a single ''WHO?" reaction to Joker. I still haven't started Persona 5 (I'm waiting to buy it to see if someone snatches it for Christmas for me.) but even I the most basic ***** when it comes to JRPGs instantly knew who the series was from the start of the reveal trailer.

I suppose you could argue that if a Toriyama design pops up in a trailer you'd know it's either Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest, but at that point I also have to look back to Reggie's words as well.

Each character being added is suppose to bring something new and exciting right. Would two DLC choices really be from JRPG series? Maybe, but that's definitely something to think about too.

Because you're gauging online reactions, which is a ridiculously small fraction of the playerbase, which I already touched on.


Of course if you're online you 'probably' have a vague idea of what Persona 5 is. Doesn't change the fact that the game's sales are pretty 'eh' altogether at like, 2~ish million copies.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If a DQ character gets in I want Sakurai to purposefully fake us out and make us think it's Goku for a second.

That actually seems like something Sakurai would do tbh.

 

[MainJPW]

For his first major creation, even she has a ''Oh look you reused a design. Yay." when you put her close to Lucca from Chrono Trigger.

Lucca’s also got elements from Bulma.

Yeah, Bulma has purple hair in the manga.

 

[Deleted member]

Ya skipped the line where I said "Small fraction of the community"

Then your point is moot because the overall reception to Chrom was positive. Only swordphobes hate him and honestly, they can lick K. Rool's golden fat belly.

What casual isn't going to want to play as a Piranha Plant? "The thing from Mario?? In SMASH???? LOL"

Everyone knows what a Piranha Plant is and everyone would find it the funniest thing, just like how the hardcore fanbases got over their initial reaction.

I told my brother who has no idea what a crocodile with a crown is that Piranha Plant was in Smash.
Me: "You know those plants from Mario that come out of the pipes? Yeah, that's a playable character in Smash."
My brither: "That's so ****ing brilliant!"

 

[Noipoi]

Lucca’s also got elements from Bulma.

Yeah, Bulma has purple hair in the manga.

Bulma
Without blue hair
My whole goddamn life has been a goddamn lie.

 

[Shroob]

Then your point is moot because the overall reception to Chrom was positive. Only swordphobes hate him and honestly, they can lick K. Rool's golden fat belly.

I told my brother who has no idea what a crocodile with a crown is that Piranha Plant was in Smash.
Me: "You know those plants from Mario that come out of the pipes? Yeah, that's a playable character in Smash."
My brither: "That's so ****ing brilliant!"

I'd honestly consider it mixed.

The Smash fanbase is already hard enough on Fire Emblem, a 7th character wasn't exactly what they wanted, especially yet another clone.


The biggest reason Chrom seems to get a free pass was because he was done dirty in Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Lucca’s also got elements from Bulma.

Yeah, Bulma has purple hair in the manga.

Lucca for Smash DLC???

 

[Double K]

But that's not realistic. I am being realistic.

You are not.

Not everyone can be dlc, because of course some of them have a risk of not selling.

In the grand scheme of things? Dragon Quest isn't that bad off when it comes to selling DLC but it comes down to who they pick to represent the series. That's all I've been arguing.

Because Sakurai can't make something sell if people don't recognize what they are actually buying. At that point it's out of his hands and in the hands of purely the consumers.

I don't see how you don't get that.

That's not narrow minded in the least.

DUDE, YOU LITERALLY SUGGESTED ONE OF THE LEAST DISTINCTIVE DRAGON QUESTS AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FRANCHIS.E


How is ****ing Eight more recognizable than either Erdrick, or the Luminary? Erdrick has been in at least 3 games in the last 5 years

 

[ChronoBound]

Why is everyone discussing Dragon Quest? Did Vergeben flat out say the Square-Enix character was going to be someone from Dragon Quest, or was there some other leak that happened today?

Dragon Quest is definitely among the biggest Japanese game franchises left (may even be the biggest) without any sort of content in Ultimate. Its only problem is simply is that it lacks a "Cloud" so to speak, someone everyone knows. The closest is Slime, but I am not sure whether we would get another generic mook so soon after Piranha Plant.

That being said, I think Dragon Quest is the most likely franchise to be the source of Square-Enix's second character. If not Dragon Quest, then Geno.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, the fact we can nearly have 8-player Smash Fire Emblem without having to use female Robin or Corrin as the 8th spot is kinda scary.

 

[PsySmasher]

Because you're gauging online reactions, which is a ridiculously small fraction of the playerbase, which I already touched on.


Of course if you're online you 'probably' have a vague idea of what Persona 5 is. Doesn't change the fact that the game's sales are pretty 'eh' altogether at like, 2~ish million copies.

2 million copies for any JRPG outside of Final Fantasy is nothing to scoff at.

 

[Zinith]

Bulma
Without blue hair
My whole goddamn life has been a goddamn lie.

Her hair is also purple in the 4th Dragon Ball movie Path to Power, which was made during Dragon Ball GT's run...

 

[Deleted member]

I refer to Lucas back in Brawl.

Back then people outside of Japan wouldn’t have heard of him that much.

Mother 3's big now, but back in Brawl? It was nowhere the level it is now. It was 'big' because "Oh **** a new Mother/Mother 3's finally coming out", but it's nowhere near the meme level it is now.

I mean, I would say the support from the EarthBound community, Starman.net and the ChuggaaConroy's old LP of the game got it known around the block a tad, kinda like the support Xenoblade got, but ya'll still right, though.

 

[Idon]

Roy's popular with the Smash fanbase.

If you wanted someone with actual MURICAN appeal, you'd go for Lyn or Hector... seriously I have friends who still rag on Hector not being in Smash, and considering just how many alts those two have in Heroes, their popularity is not to be undermined.

WHY SAKURAI.
THIS IS THE WEST'S BABY.

WHEN'S FE7 **** IN SMASH, GODDAMMIT.

 

[Pokechu]

I propose we just start new with FE characters in Smash

Marth
Anna
Azura
Robin
Tiki
Ike

 

[Noipoi]

Her hair is also purple in the 4th Dragon Ball movie Path to Power, which was made during Dragon Ball GT's run...

That's not purple, that's a very very very dark blue.

Because her hair is blue.

Always has been, always will be.

 

[Deleted member]

WHY SAKURAI.
THIS IS THE WEST'S BABY.
View attachment 183106
WHEN'S FE7 **** IN SMASH, GODDAMMIT.

Mark looks so damn precious in that art

 

[Shroob]

I propose we just start new with FE characters in Smash

Marth
Anna
Azura
Robin
Tiki
Ike

Into the trash it goesssssss

/s